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Admittedly, I haven't been a TL member for a long time, but today (not for the first time) I was extremely disgusted by behaviour that I saw, language being used and the complete lack of respect for women.
words used to describe/refer to women in ONE day:
-things
-slut
-bitch
-bitches
-idiot
-hotties
-whore
..and i do believe I saw a high five for a particulary offensive post
Joke posts are expected here, but sometimes you can go too far. Seeing as it is in the Second Commandment of Team Liquid I felt the need to draw attention to extremely offensive, male chauvanist, sexist behaviour.
"Sexist remarks of any kind whatsoever will be dealt with especially harshly. Yeah, we have female members - and we sure as hell would like to keep them!"
+ Show Spoiler +2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE
Common sense, people, common sense. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (And if you happen to be into masochism, then you're at the wrong site, anyway.)
This doesn't mean you can't get verbally medieval on someone's ass every once in a while. We don't run the place like a septic tank. But, flames are generally discouraged and we expect people to have a damn good reason for resorting to harsh language in the forums. This means gratuitous swearing is a no-no. Trolls will be burned, decapitated and banned. If you must flame, be smart about it. Creative flames will even get you respect - if the flame was warranted to begin with. Generally, you'll almost never go wrong by being nice, polite and mature. All just common sense, people.
There are also a number of Rules of Posting in our forums. Take the time to observe and learn them. There are way too many to recite here, but the following are a few important examples:
- Racist remarks will be shot down and you will be lynched.
- Homophobic comments will get shoved way up your ass.
- Sexist remarks of any kind whatsoever will be dealt with especially harshly. Yeah, we have female members - and we sure as hell would like to keep them!
- DO NOT POST ANYTHING IN ALL CAPS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SCREAMING LIKE A RAVING LUNATIC AND WE WILL BE FORCED TO TREAT YOU LIKE ONE AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
- Post your topics in the appropriate forum. We have separate forums for a reason. Use your head and post under the forum that's most relevant.
- Don't be an attention whore and give away the results of games, sporting events, movie endings, etc. in the title of the thread/post. Also, if you're going to reveal stuff in the body of your post, then be decent enough to put a "spoiler" warning in advance.
- Be very careful about resuscitating old threads. Sometimes it's ok, but sometimes it's not.
- Don't know? Use the search function. It's better than Google and it works because whatever questions you may have, chances are we've already discussed it before ad nauseum. Did a search already and you still don't know? Ask politely!
I know that forums are always filled with immature people or people who just try to get a rise out of others, but that doesnt excuse posts that are negative, violent, demeaning, and threatening towards women. No, your problems with women can't be solved by giving them a good "f***" or mushroom slap.
I don't understand how someone can be banned for a racist post but something like this can go on without punishment or some sort of deterrence. I'm obviously not the only person here who feels this way and I think more than a few members should be ashamed of themselves.
EDIT: citations: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=83554 , http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83520 among others
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ehehehe mushroom slap heehheeheheh
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Well it's a well known fact that women like to be demeaned so why on earth would you want to take that away from them?
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dont forget on tl.net ALL Asian girls are shy and study all the time
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United States11637 Posts
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Um, where do you see language like that? Cause I for one haven't run into anything like that on this forum.
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On December 08 2008 05:11 Seraphim wrote:
Um, where do you see language like that? Cause I for one haven't run into anything like that on this forum.
I added citations to the original post
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well to be honest i people here will call guys idiots, bitch, bitches as well...
seriously, this is just how people talk to and refer to one another, not just women
now it would be sexist if all the guys here started talking all nice and courteously to the girls on the forum
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On December 08 2008 05:12 hiroxx wrote:butthurt? also:
motivationals AND 4chan memes in the same post?
fucking hell..............
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United States24683 Posts
You know how they say women are the only minority that is a majority? Well what happens when you have a community where women are actually a minority? Things just get worse XD
I agree that the internet gives females a hard time. In a game, if you admit you are a girl (not that I am) then there is a high probability that male players will harass you for one reason or another.
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i talk shit on em but in all honesty i treat my girl really well. Derogatory terms are my desperate attempts to cling on to my last bit of masculinity
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United States24683 Posts
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and i only use them on the internet.
anonymously.
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On December 08 2008 05:16 grobo wrote:motivationals AND 4chan memes in the same post? fucking hell..............
hypocrit much? look at your sig
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Get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie
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Despite the fact that you are correct, why even bother?
![[image loading]](http://photos.commongate.com/11/38441_7dtr2scy8f_l.jpg)
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On December 08 2008 05:24 d_so wrote:
i talk shit on em but in all honesty i treat my girl really well. Derogatory terms are my desperate attempts to cling on to my last bit of masculinity
On December 08 2008 05:25 d_so wrote:
and i only use them on the internet.
anonymously.
Even though it is an anonymous post on a forum, and might not be directed at one particular woman, it still creates a hurtful and negative environment for women, in which they dont feel welcome.
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Someone called a girl a "hottie"????? Say it ain't so!
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lmfao at the retarded picture 
Anyways ya...women don't have free rights or w\e on the internet :O We're not equal so I guess the TL commandments were more for women that they shouldn't make sexist remarks to men
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On December 08 2008 05:31 tttt wrote:
Someone called a girl a "hottie"????? Say it ain't so!
On November 14 2008 13:34 micronesia wrote:
Dude this is so fucked up!
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On December 08 2008 05:30 arb wrote:
Get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie
see, you're retarded. if ever there was a time to show the slightest bit of remorse, it would be in this thread. don't antagonize the OP.
why? because even on the internets, there are a few things which are taboo and you shouldn't fuck with: racism, sexism, socialism, nazism. that doesn't mean consequences are consistently applied for those who break these cultural rules. but real consequences are POSSIBLE, especially if the community makes it a point to be especially ignorant on any of these issues.
don't force the hand of the moderators. no one wants a heavily censored board or whatnot, not even the OP: he/she just wants us to feel bad and to check our tongues a little bit. there's nothing wrong with what the OP says and there's nothing wrong with admitting immaturity on our part. everyone knows this is the internets where there is an unwritten mandate to be an asshole and have fun.
on the other hand, you're just a tard
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"TL's attitude towards women"
you're going to characterize an entire sites community/fanbase off of two posts? seriously?
moreoever, what exactly are you looking for? start a thread to complain about two people and maybe get a ban out of it?
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On December 08 2008 05:37 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:30 arb wrote:
Get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie see, you're retarded. if ever there was a time to show the slightest bit of remorse, it would be in this thread. don't antagonize the OP. why? because even on the internets, there are a few things which are taboo and you shouldn't fuck with: racism, sexism, socialism, nazism. that doesn't mean consequences are consistently applied for those who break these cultural rules. but real consequences are POSSIBLE, especially if the community makes it a point to be especially ignorant on any of these issues. don't force the hand of the moderators. no one wants a heavily censored board or whatnot, not even the OP: he/she just wants us to feel bad and to check our tongues a little bit. there's nothing wrong with what the OP says and there's nothing wrong with admitting immaturity on our part. everyone knows this is the internets where there is an unwritten mandate to be an asshole and have fun. on the other hand, you're just a tard
I don't know if you caught it, but that was a South Park reference.
It's a joke.
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Braavos36375 Posts
Women are like wolves. If you want a wolf, you have to trap it. Snare it. Then to keep it happy, you have to tame it. Feed it, care for it. Lovingly. The way an animal deserves. And my animal deserves a lot of loving.
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Ok seriously now, TL is really not that sexist. You have been around here long enough to know that.
Sure TL makes sexists jokes on occasion, but those are relatively harmless. Would you mind pointing me to some threads where TL users were like "[H]My Bitch won't do the dishes" or "[H]Gf wants to get a job, how to stop this?" Unless these threads happened while I was on vacation, I'm pretty sure they don't exist.
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honestly we just have a ton of stupid users right now
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Vatican City State491 Posts
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Norway28672 Posts
oh man you're way out of your element.
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On December 08 2008 05:38 Gene wrote:
"TL's attitude towards women"
you're going to characterize an entire sites community/fanbase off of two posts? seriously?
moreoever, what exactly are you looking for? start a thread to complain about two people and maybe get a ban out of it?
I'm not trying to characterize TL or get someone banned, I'm just standing up for what I believe in, and hope that if people realise that this is a big problem for some, they might think twice about posting something offensive.
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Someone is in need of attention.
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On December 08 2008 05:38 Gene wrote:
"TL's attitude towards women"
you're going to characterize an entire sites community/fanbase off of two posts? seriously?
moreoever, what exactly are you looking for? start a thread to complain about two people and maybe get a ban out of it?
I think a better approach to the OP's argument is not that the entire site is participating in the criticized behavior, but that we either abide by it and thus provide a place for it to continue or we don't criticize it enough.
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Sweden33719 Posts
I'm not sure I've seen a forum where the word girl can be mentioned without people starting to act like cavemen.
It's like the South Park episode "Bebe's boos destroy society" except the people doing it aren't 8 so it's not funny.
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United States24683 Posts
On December 08 2008 05:34 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:31 tttt wrote:
Someone called a girl a "hottie"????? Say it ain't so!
Hahaha I think I get your post.
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Norway28672 Posts
kalynn, trying to fight misogyny on the internet is seriously impossible. im not even going to try. your energy is far better spent just ignoring it than attempting to create serious topics like this, because everyone guilty of doing what you hate is going to ignore you, and its far too ingrained in the whole male internet culture/community for us to try to moderate it. it's just going to have to eventually slowly fade away through real girls becoming a more significant and vocal part of internet/gaming culture/communties.
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I have a strange feeling almost every one of those words was not directed at the general female population, and if they were it was taken out of context in what would have been a sarcastic remark.
Yes the general attitudes of men is demeaning towards women, but at the same time this forum is highly biased towards males and so the general rhetoric of a thread about a female tends to degrade into slander and sarcasm. A complaint would be valid if there was obvious sexism in a post, but on the whole most posts are sarcastic or do not have sexist intentions.
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forgot to ask earlier
can i have the magic number that will telephonically connect me to you?
oh yeah and the back of your head is ridiculous
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We're very biased.
3 out of 5 women who post on TL are staff/honorary staff.
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I've tried reading the OP about 5 times by now, but all I see is "blah blah blah".
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On December 08 2008 05:51 Liquid`Drone wrote:
kalynn, trying to fight misogyny on the internet is seriously impossible. im not even going to try. your energy is far better spent just ignoring it than attempting to create serious topics like this, because everyone guilty of doing what you hate is going to ignore you, and its far too ingrained in the whole male internet culture/community for us to try to moderate it. it's just going to have to eventually slowly fade away through real girls becoming a more significant and vocal part of internet/gaming culture/communties.
To me, it doesnt matter that it's an uphill battle. Letting people away with it means that they still get away with it and nothing is accomplished. It's a big problem that isn't just going to go away.
I'm obviously not being taken seriously by a lot of people, and I half expected that. I posted not to get revenge or have people get their comeuppance, but to voice my opinion. It's too bad that some people are proving me right, here.
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Yeah and I don't like when girl's blame guys for everything and pull the same old "boys are so stupid", and "all men suck" bullshit out of the hat. If a guy is being an asshole to you that just means he's a shitty person, even if he's being sexist. I'm not apoligizing to any fucking feminist for being a male. I try to be nice to everyone, unless I'm jokin with buddies of mine lawl.
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On December 08 2008 05:37 d_so wrote:
why? because even on the internets, there are a few things which are taboo and you shouldn't fuck with: racism, sexism, socialism, nazism.
wat? when did this happen, cause last i checked all of those things are rather common on the internet >.< Also, how did an economic theory based around collective ownership get on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism.
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At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs.
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Braavos36375 Posts
On December 08 2008 05:55 SonuvBob wrote:
We're very biased.
3 out of 5 women who post on TL are staff/honorary staff.
i count 4 out of 6
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You think this is bad? See what TL says about Protoss
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Have you guys ever noticed how stupid women are? I have this one that sits next to me in Calc, she consistently gets like 10 points lower than me on tests.
btw, this is the internet, there are no girls, and everyone knows when someone isn't around you can talk about them however you like.
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Yes, I guess a little restraint would be fantastic, seeing as this is not 4chan.
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On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs.
I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here.
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Zurich15328 Posts
Agree on the PU thread, I have no idea why I left that open after just the OP.
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On December 08 2008 06:09 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:55 SonuvBob wrote:
We're very biased.
3 out of 5 women who post on TL are staff/honorary staff. i count 4 out of 6
Is Mrs. Plott honourary staff?
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On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here.
Are you male or female?
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On December 08 2008 06:02 ThaddeusK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:37 d_so wrote:
why? because even on the internets, there are a few things which are taboo and you shouldn't fuck with: racism, sexism, socialism, nazism. wat? when did this happen, cause last i checked all of those things are rather common on the internet >.< Also, how did an economic theory based around collective ownership get on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism.
i never said they don't exist on the internet. i'm saying that if anything is punishable on the internet, it's abusing or claiming some sort of affinity towards these precepts.
and do you feel smarter using six words to express something i expressed in one? Also, don't describe something as an economic theory when it's not. perhaps i should have said communism, not socialism, but either way neither of them are economic theories, although they derive much of their justification from the economic theory of welfare economics.
nub
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On December 08 2008 06:10 sith wrote:
Have you guys ever noticed how stupid women are? I have this one that sits next to me in Calc, she consistently gets like 10 points lower than me on tests.
btw, this is the internet, there are no girls, and everyone knows when someone isn't around you can talk about them however you like.
There are a lot of girls on the internet. Most of them just don't stand up for themselves. You can see why, by the negative posts in this thread.
Just because something is a social norm doesn't mean it's okay.
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On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female?
You sexist pig!
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This is a MarklarMarklar thread
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On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female?
does it matter?
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On December 08 2008 06:09 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:55 SonuvBob wrote:
We're very biased.
3 out of 5 women who post on TL are staff/honorary staff. i count 4 out of 6
intrigue is still pre-op
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On December 08 2008 06:15 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female? does it matter?
Yes.
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On December 08 2008 05:57 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:51 Liquid`Drone wrote:
kalynn, trying to fight misogyny on the internet is seriously impossible. im not even going to try. your energy is far better spent just ignoring it than attempting to create serious topics like this, because everyone guilty of doing what you hate is going to ignore you, and its far too ingrained in the whole male internet culture/community for us to try to moderate it. it's just going to have to eventually slowly fade away through real girls becoming a more significant and vocal part of internet/gaming culture/communties. To me, it doesnt matter that it's an uphill battle. Letting people away with it means that they still get away with it and nothing is accomplished. It's a big problem that isn't just going to go away. I'm obviously not being taken seriously by a lot of people, and I half expected that. I posted not to get revenge or have people get their comeuppance, but to voice my opinion. It's too bad that some people are proving me right, here.
Anyone who says that fighting misogyny is impossible is incredibly misogynist. Why exactly are we supposed to ignore the material consequences of your speech, which is the reinforcement of the patriarchal hegemony manifest on this site? A thread is started asking people to behave halfway compassionately and your response is to ask womyn to slow down during an ever present emergency? Obviously she's not getting ignored because at least 90% of the subsequent posts served to reinforce the oppression she's feeling. I wonder why womyn don't want to become more vocal in this community? (And what could you possibly mean by "'real' girls"?
Anyway, kalynn... just don't get overwhelmed by all this.
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On December 08 2008 06:19 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:15 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female? does it matter? Yes.
why?
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On December 08 2008 06:20 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:19 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:15 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female? does it matter? Yes. why?
Answer pls, no dodge.
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On December 08 2008 06:21 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:20 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:19 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:15 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female? does it matter? Yes. why? Answer pls, no dodge.
Answer pls, no dodge.
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Braavos36375 Posts
Kalynn makes a valid point, its just for efficiency reasons we can't enforce such a policy.
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
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The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade.
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CLAIMS OF ILLEGITIMACY OF AD HOMINEM ARGUMENTS ENSUING
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On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
Kalynn makes a valid point, its just for efficiency reasons we can't enforce such a policy.
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
Heh could you expound on "efficiency reasons"? It's true that racism isn't tolerated, I've seen threads get shut down and stuff. Is it that sexism is too prevalent and would require too much banning and policing?
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On December 08 2008 06:21 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:21 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:20 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:19 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:15 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female? does it matter? Yes. why? Answer pls, no dodge. Answer pls, no dodge.
Because i am curious as to what your gender is.
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On December 08 2008 06:14 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:02 ThaddeusK wrote:On December 08 2008 05:37 d_so wrote:
why? because even on the internets, there are a few things which are taboo and you shouldn't fuck with: racism, sexism, socialism, nazism. wat? when did this happen, cause last i checked all of those things are rather common on the internet >.< Also, how did an economic theory based around collective ownership get on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism. i never said they don't exist on the internet. i'm saying that if anything is punishable on the internet, it's abusing or claiming some sort of affinity towards these precepts. and do you feel smarter using six words to express something i expressed in one? Also, don't describe something as an economic theory when it's not. perhaps i should have said communism, not socialism, but either way neither of them are economic theories, although they derive much of their justification from the economic theory of welfare economics. nub
allow me to rephrase,
wat? when did this happen, cause last checked none of those things are taboo on the internet, anyone who has been on the internet for me than 5 minutes should have realized that not only are they common but on many sites, no one cares >.< Also, how did an economic theory based around collective ownership get on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism. You see, i used 6 words there instead of one to show how it doesn't belong on that list, cause its completely different from the other three things. Also, i do not see how "a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general" fits on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism.
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On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade.
Equality should exist in all places, not some.
Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places.
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On December 08 2008 06:26 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:21 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:21 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:20 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:19 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:15 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female? does it matter? Yes. why? Answer pls, no dodge. Answer pls, no dodge. Because i am curious as to what your gender is.
Would it make a difference in matter of your opinion? .. and why should it matter?
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On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
Kalynn makes a valid point, its just for efficiency reasons we can't enforce such a policy.
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
There wouldn't be as much to have to stop if you tried to stop some. I'm sure if this site was this full of "gosugamers > tl" spam threads you would clean it up quick. On this planet it is likely you will always have a thousand excuses to reinforce patriarchy, many of them based on "efficiency" (a.k.a. "it doesn't really bother me so I'll never get motivated enough to do something about it"), but I've yet to see a valid one.
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I think it's more of the fact that women are scapegoats
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why even ask? she said "I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive", males wouldn't get offended by that
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On December 08 2008 06:26 ThaddeusK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:14 d_so wrote:On December 08 2008 06:02 ThaddeusK wrote:On December 08 2008 05:37 d_so wrote:
why? because even on the internets, there are a few things which are taboo and you shouldn't fuck with: racism, sexism, socialism, nazism. wat? when did this happen, cause last i checked all of those things are rather common on the internet >.< Also, how did an economic theory based around collective ownership get on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism. i never said they don't exist on the internet. i'm saying that if anything is punishable on the internet, it's abusing or claiming some sort of affinity towards these precepts. and do you feel smarter using six words to express something i expressed in one? Also, don't describe something as an economic theory when it's not. perhaps i should have said communism, not socialism, but either way neither of them are economic theories, although they derive much of their justification from the economic theory of welfare economics. nub allow me to rephrase, wat? when did this happen, cause last checked none of those things are taboo on the internet, anyone who has been on the internet for me than 5 minutes should have realized that not only are they common but on many sites, no one cares >.< Also, how did an economic theory based around collective ownership get on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism. You see, i used 6 words there instead of one to show how it doesn't belong on that list, cause its completely different from the other three things. Also, i do not see how "a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general" fits on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism.
-_- are you saying that these precepts i listed are not bannable offenses on many boards? even if that ban is not enforced, is it not part of the rules, just like it is here on tl? so can you understand why i said that "if anything is punishable, it is for abusing or expressing affinity for any of these precepts"?
socialism is probably the only one that doesn't fit the list on a global context, but in America, yeah, there's tons of hatred for both socialism and communism. nevertheless, it's probably not a bannable offense, so yeah, it doesn't belong on the list... but not for the reasons you said. you need to go take some econ classes and actually understand what an economic theory is before you try to assert your intelligence with a verbose string of multisyllabic words you don't even understand you little as;kldfj;as.
edit: in the spirit of this thread i removed my female-derogatory word goddamit
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On December 08 2008 06:28 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:26 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:21 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:21 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:20 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:19 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:15 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:13 arb wrote:On December 08 2008 06:12 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:07 yoshtodd wrote:
At least its not as bad as 4chan... There is definitely a macho atmosphere here. Perhaps just make use of the Starcraft resources and avoid the General Forum and Blogs. I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive. Unfortunately you can't ignore something that smacks you in the face everyday and is hurtful to you as a person. ..and I'm not just talking about TL here. Are you male or female? does it matter? Yes. why? Answer pls, no dodge. Answer pls, no dodge. Because i am curious as to what your gender is. Would it make a difference in matter of your opinion? .. and why should it matter?
It would help to explain the basis behind your OP a bit, but I think that's all...
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
That said, I think Pyrrhuloxia also has a point. I wouldn't say that the act of not fighting the specified actions is misogynistic itself, but I do think it displays a bit of defeatism.
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On December 08 2008 06:20 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:57 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 05:51 Liquid`Drone wrote:
kalynn, trying to fight misogyny on the internet is seriously impossible. im not even going to try. your energy is far better spent just ignoring it than attempting to create serious topics like this, because everyone guilty of doing what you hate is going to ignore you, and its far too ingrained in the whole male internet culture/community for us to try to moderate it. it's just going to have to eventually slowly fade away through real girls becoming a more significant and vocal part of internet/gaming culture/communties. To me, it doesnt matter that it's an uphill battle. Letting people away with it means that they still get away with it and nothing is accomplished. It's a big problem that isn't just going to go away. I'm obviously not being taken seriously by a lot of people, and I half expected that. I posted not to get revenge or have people get their comeuppance, but to voice my opinion. It's too bad that some people are proving me right, here. Anyone who says that fighting misogyny is impossible is incredibly misogynist. Why exactly are we supposed to ignore the material consequences of your speech, which is the reinforcement of the patriarchal hegemony manifest on this site? A thread is started asking people to behave halfway compassionately and your response is to ask womyn to slow down during an ever present emergency? Obviously she's not getting ignored because at least 90% of the subsequent posts served to reinforce the oppression she's feeling. I wonder why womyn don't want to become more vocal in this community? (And what could you possibly mean by "'real' girls"? Anyway, kalynn... just don't get overwhelmed by all this.
concurred
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On December 08 2008 06:35 hiroxx wrote:
why even ask? she said "I'd probably be a lot happier if I ignored everything offensive", males wouldn't get offended by that
She might be happier hiding at home then enduring all of your abuse but she wouldn't be happy hiding. There's so much ceaseless verbal abuse aimed at womyn through all mediums of communication on this planet that any attempt at social interaction is going to engender more degrading language than is possible to ignore. So my guess is that she believes that the only way she can be comfortable not hiding is to somehow change the climate of the place she wants to step out into.
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BTW just so you know, most people are joking about sexism, what with all the back in the kitchen talk and all that. A lot of the responses in this thread are just because it's THIS thread, if you asked a lot of people in a serious situation in real life what their opinions about gender equality were the responses would be a lot different.
Speaking of that, get back in the kitchen.
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On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places.
In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that.
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On December 08 2008 06:37 Descent wrote:
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
So in a nutshell, the majority of the community doesn't agree with the rule "no sexism", and enforcing it would result in a possibly big loss of members?
It's just interesting imagining if the topic were racism instead of sexism.
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On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that.
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken.
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On December 08 2008 06:45 yoshtodd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:37 Descent wrote:
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
So in a nutshell, the majority of the community doesn't agree with the rule "no sexism", and enforcing it would result in a possibly big loss of members? It's just interesting imagining if the topic were racism instead of sexism.
Based on the other replies in this topic, I would say so.
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Melbourne5338 Posts
On December 08 2008 06:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
Kalynn makes a valid point, its just for efficiency reasons we can't enforce such a policy.
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
There wouldn't be as much to have to stop if you tried to stop some. I'm sure if this site was this full of "gosugamers > tl" spam threads you would clean it up quick. On this planet it is likely you will always have a thousand excuses to reinforce patriarchy, many of them based on "efficiency" (a.k.a. "it doesn't really bother me so I'll never get motivated enough to do something about it"), but I've yet to see a valid one.
Have you seen the blog / strategy forum / sc2 clean-up attempts?
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On December 08 2008 06:45 yoshtodd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:37 Descent wrote:
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
So in a nutshell, the majority of the community doesn't agree with the rule "no sexism", and enforcing it would result in a possibly big loss of members? It's just interesting imagining if the topic were racism instead of sexism.
There are a lot of people of different race on the forums, I can see racism being a big deal. However, there are very few women that we know of, so sexism isn't that big of a deal. That's basically how it goes.
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On December 08 2008 06:41 sith wrote:
BTW just so you know, most people are joking about sexism, what with all the back in the kitchen talk and all that. A lot of the responses in this thread are just because it's THIS thread, if you asked a lot of people in a serious situation in real life what their opinions about gender equality were the responses would be a lot different.
Speaking of that, get back in the kitchen.
Oh well! I'm glad we got the taken care of! It's just a joke! I thought you really wanted that sandwich and I was wondering how she was supposed to send it to you through the internet. I'm also glad that while womyn aren't allowed on the internet, people don't use words like "bitch" and "hottie" in offline conversations ever.
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On December 08 2008 06:47 sith wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:45 yoshtodd wrote:On December 08 2008 06:37 Descent wrote:
yoshtodd, I think Hot_Bid's point is that while the TL Commandments basically support Kalynn, the general consensus of the community seems to be neutral or disregarding the policy, and so changing the method by which the policy is enforced would require a shift the TL staff don't want to take, or a great fluctuation within the community (like a sudden loss of members). I.e. the time isn't right...Or something like that?
So in a nutshell, the majority of the community doesn't agree with the rule "no sexism", and enforcing it would result in a possibly big loss of members? It's just interesting imagining if the topic were racism instead of sexism. There are a lot of people of different race on the forums, I can see racism being a big deal. However, there are very few women that we know of, so sexism isn't that big of a deal. That's basically how it goes.
There are very few women that we know of, BECAUSE sexism isn't that big of a deal.
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On December 08 2008 06:47 sith wrote:
There are a lot of people of different race on the forums, I can see racism being a big deal. However, there are very few women that we know of, so sexism isn't that big of a deal. That's basically how it goes.
So if we knew the forum were monoracial, then racism wouldn't be a big deal?
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Personally I find it really stupid that there's a bunch of blogs where guys ask how to pick up girls (or even talk to them), then there's a million posts after the OP filled with misogynist trash. I keep reading them because it's like I'm passing a carwreck and as much as I want to look away, I can't.
I mean I half expect everyone is being a douchebag on purpose because everyone is sick of "Hey guys, how do I ask this girl out?" threads. But it's hard to tell who is joking and who is being serious.
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On December 08 2008 06:47 pachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
Kalynn makes a valid point, its just for efficiency reasons we can't enforce such a policy.
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
There wouldn't be as much to have to stop if you tried to stop some. I'm sure if this site was this full of "gosugamers > tl" spam threads you would clean it up quick. On this planet it is likely you will always have a thousand excuses to reinforce patriarchy, many of them based on "efficiency" (a.k.a. "it doesn't really bother me so I'll never get motivated enough to do something about it"), but I've yet to see a valid one. Have you seen the blog / strategy forum / sc2 clean-up attempts?
I admit I haven't but I think the more important thing is not that anyone who says anything hurtful is censored but that no one forgets that there are real people on the other side of the intertubes and that if you see an idea worth defending that you shouldn't just ignore it because it doesn't affect you directly. That's why even saying it's impossible to improve gender relations is patriarchal is because constant deferral to the status quo is what allows it to continue without having to contend with viable, better alternatives. Nobody is going to stop choosing to say hurtful things if they are being told that they will inevitably do so, that it is their nature. They will be propelled by such statements.
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On December 08 2008 06:50 yoshtodd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:47 sith wrote:
There are a lot of people of different race on the forums, I can see racism being a big deal. However, there are very few women that we know of, so sexism isn't that big of a deal. That's basically how it goes. So if we knew the forum were monoracial, then racism wouldn't be a big deal?
It would be a big deal (to me and most people), but it wouldn't get brought up because unless you felt strongly enough that it was wrong, there would be no incentive to go against it, as you yourself isn't being offended.
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On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
WHAT.
Are you kidding me? KALYNN is obviously the troll here, refusing to answer a simple fucking question.
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On December 08 2008 06:15 H_ wrote:
This is a MarklarMarklar thread
LOLOL so true so true
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On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman.
I....I'm.... not sure i understand.
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On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand.
HAHA WIN
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On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy.
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On December 08 2008 06:57 sith wrote:
It would be a big deal (to me and most people), but it wouldn't get brought up because unless you felt strongly enough that it was wrong, there would be no incentive to go against it, as you yourself isn't being offended.
Okay so if the whole forum tolerated racism, and someone of another race liked starcraft and decided to join, is their well being incentive enough to speak up?
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On December 08 2008 07:00 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
WHAT. Are you kidding me? KALYNN is obviously the troll here, refusing to answer a simple fucking question.
no honestly, why does it matter
all I see you doing is hurr hurr gurls on the internet hurr hurr back the kitchen herp derp
I dont care if a lot of shitty posters agree with you, its still stupid to try and troll this topic
I mean I'm not even that hardcore about it, if you want to troll fine, just dont do stupid trolls people
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Hungary11291 Posts
The OP has my full sympathy for this.
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On December 08 2008 05:48 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I'm not sure I've seen a forum where the word girl can be mentioned without people starting to act like cavemen.
It's like the South Park episode "Bebe's boos destroy society" except the people doing it aren't 8 so it's not funny.
OMG That episodes was fucking hilarious.
In other news: this thread fails.
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On December 08 2008 07:00 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
WHAT. Are you kidding me? KALYNN is obviously the troll here, refusing to answer a simple fucking question.
You realize that the only reason he's asking is to label the OP, right? If OP is a woman, he's going to accuse her of being irrational typical woman, if he's a guy he's going to label him White Knight defending a cause that he otherwise personally feels should be perpetuated. It also defeats the purpose of equality, when you tell people what you are, subliminally demanding special treatment.
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On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that. Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken.
When I'm out with the guys it's called pussy. Why? Because we understand that we are using the word pussy to mean women that we have picked up or are going to pick up. It's an ease of use thing. If you want to give it some sort of malicious meaning that's your problem. Keep it to yourself though and don't preach.
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The OP needs to lossen up and get laid.
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On December 08 2008 07:04 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy.
You're obviously not understanding my point. The word pussy is a derogatory word used to describe both men and women. Calling someone a pussy is basically saying - 'you are equal to female genetalia, which is a bad thing to be.'
I AM a woman, and I am sick of being called names, here.
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On December 08 2008 07:10 Kalynn wrote:
I AM a woman, and I am sick of being called names, here.
are you hot?
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On December 08 2008 06:47 pachi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
Kalynn makes a valid point, its just for efficiency reasons we can't enforce such a policy.
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
There wouldn't be as much to have to stop if you tried to stop some. I'm sure if this site was this full of "gosugamers > tl" spam threads you would clean it up quick. On this planet it is likely you will always have a thousand excuses to reinforce patriarchy, many of them based on "efficiency" (a.k.a. "it doesn't really bother me so I'll never get motivated enough to do something about it"), but I've yet to see a valid one. Have you seen the blog / strategy forum / sc2 clean-up attempts? Unfair comparison though, for the same reason that gosugamers > tl spam is a bad example. These problems are both unpreventable largely because of the continuous influx of new members who aren't aware of and don't care about the rules, showing up specifically to do that which isn't desired from them. Whereas sexism as defined in the op is prevalent among long-time posters and people who come here for many reasons other than to say those things, and whatever their post-count would usually learn and do whatever they have to to stay, within reason.
The main thing that would lead anyone to be so unwilling to follow the rules that they would just leave the forum, and go stay at 4chan or some shitty place, is that they're that adamant about being vocally disrespectful to women. I don't expect that there are that many such posters, and whoever this is a description of is probably a douchebag anyway.
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Welcome to the sausage fest!
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I have plenty of friends that are girls, non-sexual relations such as in study groups or work places, I don't understand how people make such a big deal out of how they treat the opposite sex, I mean I think its pretty obvious, nobody likes to be treated inferior or a "bitch". Stereotyping an entire sex is equally as retarded as doing the same on an entire race.
In relationships, I treat her like a best friend and we simply try to help each other out, share personal matters and have fun/enjoy ourselves being together..pretty straightforward.
Unless your so fucking full of shit, primal, and insecure about your own masculinity..then yeah..I guess I could get it.
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On December 08 2008 06:09 o3.power91 wrote:
You think this is bad? See what TL says about Protoss
Win right there.
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Hungary11291 Posts
On December 08 2008 07:11 MrBabyHands wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:10 Kalynn wrote:
I AM a woman, and I am sick of being called names, here. are you hot?
Even though it might be hard to enforce the policy in general in an efficient way, maybe this thread would be a good testing field of the banhammer?
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On December 08 2008 05:06 Kalynn wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Admittedly, I haven't been a TL member for a long time, but today (not for the first time) I was extremely disgusted by behaviour that I saw, language being used and the complete lack of respect for women.
words used to describe/refer to women in ONE day:
-things
-slut
-bitch
-bitches
-idiot
-hotties
-whore
..and i do believe I saw a high five for a particulary offensive post
Joke posts are expected here, but sometimes you can go too far. Seeing as it is in the Second Commandment of Team Liquid I felt the need to draw attention to extremely offensive, male chauvanist, sexist behaviour.
2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE Common sense, people, common sense. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (And if you happen to be into masochism, then you're at the wrong site, anyway.) + Show Spoiler +
This doesn't mean you can't get verbally medieval on someone's ass every once in a while. We don't run the place like a septic tank. But, flames are generally discouraged and we expect people to have a damn good reason for resorting to harsh language in the forums. This means gratuitous swearing is a no-no. Trolls will be burned, decapitated and banned. If you must flame, be smart about it. Creative flames will even get you respect - if the flame was warranted to begin with. Generally, you'll almost never go wrong by being nice, polite and mature. All just common sense, people.
There are also a number of Rules of Posting in our forums. Take the time to observe and learn them. There are way too many to recite here, but the following are a few important examples:
- Racist remarks will be shot down and you will be lynched.
- Homophobic comments will get shoved way up your ass.
- Sexist remarks of any kind whatsoever will be dealt with especially harshly. Yeah, we have female members - and we sure as hell would like to keep them!
- DO NOT POST ANYTHING IN ALL CAPS IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SCREAMING LIKE A RAVING LUNATIC AND WE WILL BE FORCED TO TREAT YOU LIKE ONE AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
- Post your topics in the appropriate forum. We have separate forums for a reason. Use your head and post under the forum that's most relevant.
- Don't be an attention whore and give away the results of games, sporting events, movie endings, etc. in the title of the thread/post. Also, if you're going to reveal stuff in the body of your post, then be decent enough to put a "spoiler" warning in advance.
- Be very careful about resuscitating old threads. Sometimes it's ok, but sometimes it's not.
- Don't know? Use the search function. It's better than Google and it works because whatever questions you may have, chances are we've already discussed it before ad nauseum. Did a search already and you still don't know? Ask politely!
I know that forums are always filled with immature people or people who just try to get a rise out of others, but that doesnt excuse posts that are negative, violent, demeaning, and threatening towards women. No, your problems with women can't be solved by giving them a good "f***" or mushroom slap. I don't understand how someone can be banned for a racist post but something like this can go on without punishment or some sort of deterrence. I'm obviously not the only person here who feels this way and I think more than a few members should be ashamed of themselves. EDIT: citations: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=83554 , http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83520 among others
Agreed.
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I agree completely with OP, "women are whores, no exception" posts are rather disgusting.
I am not sure, if it reflects the general mentality of 20-year-old males, 20-year-old gamers though. Could also be neither I guess, but seriously who the "#¤ finds it humorous to speak like that?.
And OP just fell in a rather stupid trap. There is only disadvantage to be had in stating sex in a situation like this.
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On December 08 2008 05:42 fusionsdf wrote:
honestly we just have a ton of stupid users right now
made a long post about this just the other day. the quality (yes, I used the word quality) of active members/posters lately has decreased fucking dramatically the past few months.
I really, really miss HonestTea.
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On December 08 2008 07:18 KlaCkoN wrote:
I agree completely with OP, "women are whores, no exception" posts are rather disgusting.
I am not sure, if it reflects the general mentality of 20-year-old males, 20-year-old gamers though. Could also be neither I guess, but seriously who the "#¤ finds it humorous to speak like that?.
And OP just fell in a rather stupid trap. There is only disadvantage to be had in stating sex in a situation like this.
I understood completely what would come of it, however I don't want to hide behind gender ambiguity when being personally attacked. I want to stand up for what I am
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On December 08 2008 07:13 QuietIdiot wrote:
I have plenty of friends that are girls, non-sexual relations such as in study groups or work places, I don't understand how people make such a big deal out of how they treat the opposite sex, I mean I think its pretty obvious, nobody likes to be treated inferior or a "bitch". Stereotyping an entire sex is equally as retarded as doing the same on an entire race.
In relationships, I treat her like a best friend and we simply try to help each other out, share personal matters and have fun/enjoy ourselves being together..pretty straightforward.
Unless your so fucking full of shit, primal, and insecure about your own masculinity..then yeah..I guess I could get it.
QFT. Seriously couldn't agree more.
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On December 08 2008 07:04 yoshtodd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:57 sith wrote:
It would be a big deal (to me and most people), but it wouldn't get brought up because unless you felt strongly enough that it was wrong, there would be no incentive to go against it, as you yourself isn't being offended. Okay so if the whole forum tolerated racism, and someone of another race liked starcraft and decided to join, is their well being incentive enough to speak up?
I don't know, you tell me? I'm not for racism/sexism here, I'm just pointing out the fact that sexism isn't brought up as an issue here because of the lack of females, and I was just using racism as a similar case, where if everyone was the same race (in our case the same sex) it wouldn't be brought up as an issue.
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On December 08 2008 06:36 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:26 ThaddeusK wrote:On December 08 2008 06:14 d_so wrote:On December 08 2008 06:02 ThaddeusK wrote:On December 08 2008 05:37 d_so wrote:
why? because even on the internets, there are a few things which are taboo and you shouldn't fuck with: racism, sexism, socialism, nazism. wat? when did this happen, cause last i checked all of those things are rather common on the internet >.< Also, how did an economic theory based around collective ownership get on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism. i never said they don't exist on the internet. i'm saying that if anything is punishable on the internet, it's abusing or claiming some sort of affinity towards these precepts. and do you feel smarter using six words to express something i expressed in one? Also, don't describe something as an economic theory when it's not. perhaps i should have said communism, not socialism, but either way neither of them are economic theories, although they derive much of their justification from the economic theory of welfare economics. nub allow me to rephrase, wat? when did this happen, cause last checked none of those things are taboo on the internet, anyone who has been on the internet for me than 5 minutes should have realized that not only are they common but on many sites, no one cares >.< Also, how did an economic theory based around collective ownership get on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism. You see, i used 6 words there instead of one to show how it doesn't belong on that list, cause its completely different from the other three things. Also, i do not see how "a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general" fits on the same list as racism, sexism, and nazism. -_- are you saying that these precepts i listed are not bannable offenses on many boards? even if that ban is not enforced, is it not part of the rules, just like it is here on tl? so can you understand why i said that "if anything is punishable, it is for abusing or expressing affinity for any of these precepts"?
yes, on many boards they are not bannable offenses, they are here and a lot of other boards, but not all, there are also a lot that dont care.
you need to go take some econ classes and actually understand what an economic theory is before you try to assert your intelligence with a verbose string of multisyllabic words you don't even understand you little as;kldfj;as.
sorry, missed the part of my post where i tried to assert my intelligence, care to point it out? all i see is me trying to say that socialism doesnt belong on that list. sorry if my vocabulary is too big for teh intarwebs
i know that wikipedia isn't the most trusted source in the world, but im too lazy to come up with a better one at the moment...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and an egalitarian society characterized by equal opportunities for all individuals.
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Hungary11291 Posts
On December 08 2008 07:21 sith wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:04 yoshtodd wrote:On December 08 2008 06:57 sith wrote:
It would be a big deal (to me and most people), but it wouldn't get brought up because unless you felt strongly enough that it was wrong, there would be no incentive to go against it, as you yourself isn't being offended. Okay so if the whole forum tolerated racism, and someone of another race liked starcraft and decided to join, is their well being incentive enough to speak up? I don't know, you tell me? I'm not for racism/sexism here, I'm just pointing out the fact that sexism isn't brought up as an issue here because of the lack of females, and I was just using racism as a similar case, where if everyone was the same race (in our case the same sex) it wouldn't be brought up as an issue.
You are wrong. Clearly this thread and the 10 commandmends speak a different language. The policy is simply not enforced because these stereotypes are way to virulent and have too many different shades.
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On December 08 2008 07:07 Dutch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that. Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken. When I'm out with the guys it's called pussy. Why? Because we understand that we are using the word pussy to mean women that we have picked up or are going to pick up. It's an ease of use thing. If you want to give it some sort of malicious meaning that's your problem. Keep it to yourself though and don't preach.
On December 08 2008 07:08 Dutch wrote:
The OP needs to lossen up and get laid. Even though I believe Dutch to be a noob due to his previous thread, he is spot on right here.
It is YOU(Kalynn) giving those words a negative connotation.
I'm sorry for whatever might have happened to you for you to feel offended so easily.
But your reasons for feeling offended just don't have any substance in my eyes.
Provide a few palpable thread-relevant examples of substance to justify your feelings, and I might just change my mind.
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On December 08 2008 07:32 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:07 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that. Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken. When I'm out with the guys it's called pussy. Why? Because we understand that we are using the word pussy to mean women that we have picked up or are going to pick up. It's an ease of use thing. If you want to give it some sort of malicious meaning that's your problem. Keep it to yourself though and don't preach. Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:08 Dutch wrote:
The OP needs to lossen up and get laid. Even though I believe Dutch to be a noob due to his previous thread, he is spot on right here. It is YOU(Kalynn) giving those words a negative connotation. I'm sorry for whatever might have happened to you for you to feel offended so easily. But your reasons for feeling offended just don't have any substance in my eyes. Provide a few palpable thread-relevant examples of substance for your offense, and I might just change my mind.
I can't believe you think that pussy is not a derogatory word. Give me one example in which it is not.
EDIT: its the same as calling someone a dick. Its a word referring to a gender-specific body part used to put someone down
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On December 08 2008 05:55 SonuvBob wrote:
We're very biased.
3 out of 5 women who post on TL are staff/honorary staff.
staff/honorary staff?
Wouldn't they both be honorary?
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On December 08 2008 07:21 sith wrote:
I don't know, you tell me? I'm not for racism/sexism here, I'm just pointing out the fact that sexism isn't brought up as an issue here because of the lack of females, and I was just using racism as a similar case, where if everyone was the same race (in our case the same sex) it wouldn't be brought up as an issue.
Yeah I'm not saying you're for racism or sexism. Was just questioning whether it's okay to tolerate them just because the people being disrespected are not present in the group. You said there's no incentive to bring up sexism as an issue if there's no women. However there are women on this forum, and I think they should be made to feel free and welcome here, and that should be incentive for discussion just as much as if you or I were being labeled and derided for what we were born as.
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On December 08 2008 07:32 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:07 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that. Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken. When I'm out with the guys it's called pussy. Why? Because we understand that we are using the word pussy to mean women that we have picked up or are going to pick up. It's an ease of use thing. If you want to give it some sort of malicious meaning that's your problem. Keep it to yourself though and don't preach. Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:08 Dutch wrote:
The OP needs to lossen up and get laid. Even though I believe Dutch to be a noob due to his previous thread, he is spot on right here. It is YOU(Kalynn) giving those words a negative connotation. I'm sorry for whatever might have happened to you for you to feel offended so easily. But your reasons for feeling offended just don't have any substance in my eyes. Provide a few palpable thread-relevant examples of substance to justify your feelings, and I might just change my mind.
On December 08 2008 07:04 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy.
On December 08 2008 07:00 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
WHAT. Are you kidding me? KALYNN is obviously the troll here, refusing to answer a simple fucking question.
Wow, you're just derogatory to people in general. 
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I agree with Kalynn, though I think that people should have more liberty to post whatever they want in there own blogs and therefor the examples are kind of bad.
BTW pussy is of course a derogatory word. Just like dick is.
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On December 08 2008 07:36 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:32 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:07 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that. Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken. When I'm out with the guys it's called pussy. Why? Because we understand that we are using the word pussy to mean women that we have picked up or are going to pick up. It's an ease of use thing. If you want to give it some sort of malicious meaning that's your problem. Keep it to yourself though and don't preach. On December 08 2008 07:08 Dutch wrote:
The OP needs to lossen up and get laid. Even though I believe Dutch to be a noob due to his previous thread, he is spot on right here. It is YOU(Kalynn) giving those words a negative connotation. I'm sorry for whatever might have happened to you for you to feel offended so easily. But your reasons for feeling offended just don't have any substance in my eyes. Provide a few palpable thread-relevant examples of substance to justify your feelings, and I might just change my mind. Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:04 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy. Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:00 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Hot_Bid wrote:
arb you're an idiot stop trolling him.
WHAT. Are you kidding me? KALYNN is obviously the troll here, refusing to answer a simple fucking question. Wow, you're just derogatory to people in general.
Lol nice
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women get the respect they deserve
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On December 08 2008 07:10 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:04 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy. You're obviously not understanding my point. The word pussy is a derogatory word used to describe both men and women. Calling someone a pussy is basically saying - 'you are equal to female genetalia, which is a bad thing to be.' I AM a woman, and I am sick of being called names, here. So if I call someone an asshole, I'm being derogative to every being in possession of an asshole?
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Hungary11291 Posts
On December 08 2008 07:32 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:07 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that. Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken. When I'm out with the guys it's called pussy. Why? Because we understand that we are using the word pussy to mean women that we have picked up or are going to pick up. It's an ease of use thing. If you want to give it some sort of malicious meaning that's your problem. Keep it to yourself though and don't preach. Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:08 Dutch wrote:
The OP needs to lossen up and get laid. Even though I believe Dutch to be a noob due to his previous thread, he is spot on right here.
You are amusing. I actually found Dutch's comments way too stupid to respond to.
If he wants to use some specific lingo with his friends while they are out, he has all the rights in the world to do so. It will perhaps reveal some parts about his attitutes towards the other gender, but if he considers it nifty as a "ease of use" thing, he can use it with his buddies all he wants.
But TL.net is a public place. Everyone can read it. It has rules. And substituting "women" with "pussies" is every bit as malicious as a substitution can be (read above). This is not a matter of personal interpretation but a culturally wide-spread stereotype that is real.
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On December 08 2008 07:32 fgsvsd wrote:
Even though I believe Dutch to be a noob due to his previous thread, he is spot on right here.
It is YOU(Kalynn) giving those words a negative connotation.
I'm sorry for whatever might have happened to you for you to feel offended so easily.
But your reasons for feeling offended just don't have any substance in my eyes.
Provide a few palpable thread-relevant examples of substance to justify your feelings, and I might just change my mind.
If for some reason everyone referred to you as "that dumb piece of shit" would it be your fault if you felt offended by it, because they're only words and you gave them a negative meaning? Come on now.
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On December 08 2008 07:39 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:10 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 07:04 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy. You're obviously not understanding my point. The word pussy is a derogatory word used to describe both men and women. Calling someone a pussy is basically saying - 'you are equal to female genetalia, which is a bad thing to be.' I AM a woman, and I am sick of being called names, here. So if I call someone an asshole, I'm being derogative to every being in possession of an asshole?
no, you are likening them to a particular body part that is not very pleasant
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MURICA15980 Posts
I want to dig up Rosa Parks from her grave and bury her in the back of a bus. That'll teach that woman to sit down.
+ Show Spoiler +racist and sexist at the same time.
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ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread
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On December 08 2008 07:43 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:39 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:10 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 07:04 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy. You're obviously not understanding my point. The word pussy is a derogatory word used to describe both men and women. Calling someone a pussy is basically saying - 'you are equal to female genetalia, which is a bad thing to be.' I AM a woman, and I am sick of being called names, here. So if I call someone an asshole, I'm being derogative to every being in possession of an asshole? no, you are likening them to a particular body part that is not very pleasant
So no bad words anymore?
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On December 08 2008 07:46 Kami wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:43 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 07:39 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:10 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 07:04 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy. You're obviously not understanding my point. The word pussy is a derogatory word used to describe both men and women. Calling someone a pussy is basically saying - 'you are equal to female genetalia, which is a bad thing to be.' I AM a woman, and I am sick of being called names, here. So if I call someone an asshole, I'm being derogative to every being in possession of an asshole? no, you are likening them to a particular body part that is not very pleasant So no bad words anymore?
Thats not my point. I'm saying that defining someone by their genitals is sexist and offensive, as well as using that word in a derogatory way.
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Dutch and fgsvsd need to seriously stfu. Fucking dumbasses.
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Poll: Does TL.net objectify it's cute schoolgirls?
(Vote): Intrigue
(Vote): Hot Bid
(Vote): No
There is only one way to find the truth.
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On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread
The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread.
EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if he's also the guy that made the anti-women troll thread.
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On December 08 2008 07:44 Klogon wrote:I want to dig up Rosa Parks from her grave and bury her in the back of a bus. That'll teach that woman to sit down. + Show Spoiler +racist and sexist at the same time.
Holy Christ Klogon, I just died laughing.
Anyway, this thread is stupid... I mean there isn't much more to say. It's just a flame bait thread that'll end up going no where fast.
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On December 08 2008 07:41 Aesop wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:32 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:07 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:42 Dutch wrote:On December 08 2008 06:26 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote:
The culture of this site is pretty much males 16-25 I'd say. Obviously there is going to be talk about women, and not all in a positive fashion. If this was a bunch of friends out for a night on the town it wouldn't be a problem. But because it's on the internet a bunch of pussys like to speak up and rain on the parade. Equality should exist in all places, not some. Acting this way in secrecy is not an excuse, it only perpetuates sexism in all places. In secrecy? There is nothing secret about it. When you are out for a night with the guys whats the problem with talking about the pussy you picked up? If a girl acted like a whore or was retarded, what's wrong with talking about it? It doesn't go against equality in the least. I don't think anyone here is saying women should be treated differently than men, or that they should be locked up in cages. I think your problem is with language. You find specific words to be inherently sexist, a false idea. Words cannot be sexist/racist whatever on their own. It is the meaning that was intended behind them and you are missing that. Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. You can't define a woman like she is an object, that is fundamental to being sexist. She is not a cunt or a whore or a bitch. The origin of the words isn't my point. If you think that you aren't causing any pain when using this language then you are mistaken. When I'm out with the guys it's called pussy. Why? Because we understand that we are using the word pussy to mean women that we have picked up or are going to pick up. It's an ease of use thing. If you want to give it some sort of malicious meaning that's your problem. Keep it to yourself though and don't preach. On December 08 2008 07:08 Dutch wrote:
The OP needs to lossen up and get laid. Even though I believe Dutch to be a noob due to his previous thread, he is spot on right here. You are amusing. I actually found Dutch's comments way too stupid to respond to. If he wants to use some specific lingo with his friends while they are out, he has all the rights in the world to do so. It will perhaps reveal some parts about his attitutes towards the other gender, but if he considers it nifty as a "ease of use" thing, he can use it with his buddies all he wants. But TL.net is a public place. Everyone can read it. It has rules. And substituting "women" with "pussies" is every bit as malicious as a substitution can be (read above). This is not a matter of personal interpretation but a culturally wide-spread stereotype that is real.
Please clarify "amusing." I think you mean the word not in a good way, but I want to be sure in this topic.
Also, fgsvsd, come on. All of the replies since your post have been right. Most people have one, but that particular organ is undesirable; thus it's clearly a derogatory term when in colloquial use. I think Kalynn's previous posts revealed intelligence, especially the one where she reasoned why she answered as to her gender.
Edit: Linguistics probably isn't the right word...Hrm. Re-worked the sentence.
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Well, I do think it's nothing more than a fantasy to believe we'll ever remove sexism 100%; however, it also seems that sometimes Teamliquid is a bit too lenient about it. Sure, there are a lot of jokes and it may all seem like fun and games, but we forget that maybe there are people who are seeing the jokes in a more serious manner. Personally, it doesn't affect me at all, I'm a male, but think of a member who recently found TL and comes across a thread with many sexist remarks.
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why make a rule if it's not really going to be enforced?
i think i agree with the op. and this thread just shows how degraded these great boards have become. so much trash in this thread. im a huge lurker, i barely post, but i did used to post more because this place used to be so much more awesome. now i barely read the boards =(
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On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread. EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts.
Oh yeah, someone couldn't actually have hurt feelings and be a girl? No way, it's the internet. /sarcasm.
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On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread. EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts.
I didn't come here to troll. I came here to join a SC community. I'm allowed to voice my opinion if ive been personally offended by posts that go against the rules.
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The point is that you have no contribution to the community, and you're trying to fix something you don't belong to. It's a little.. strange.
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On December 08 2008 07:52 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread. EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts. I didn't come here to troll. I came here to join a SC community. I'm allowed to voice my opinion if ive been personally offended by posts that go against the rules.
If you're not a troll and can't tell the difference between the obvious troll posts here, stick to the starcraft forums. General and blogs have nothing to do with starcraft. You're either a troll or you're very new to the internet.
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On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread. EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if he's also the guy that made the anti-women troll thread.
wait what's wrong with posting 30 times in a conflict oriented thread?
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Even if it is just a troll post, there is a point here. It's a rule that's not being enforced. Why even put it in the commandments if there's not going to be anyone following it?
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On December 08 2008 07:54 FzeroXx wrote:
The point is that you have no contribution to the community, and you're trying to fix something you don't belong to. It's a little.. strange.
Maybe more women would try and belong to the community if there wasn't so much misogyny in it.
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I'm honestly amazed no one has posted "tits or gtfo" yet.
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women are only good for three things: cooking, cleaning and vaginas.
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i just wanted to point it out because maybe other people were afraid to.. i didnt come here to start a fight, I wanted to remind people that some things are offensive and they might want to think twice about posting something rude
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On December 08 2008 07:43 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:39 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:10 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 07:04 fgsvsd wrote:On December 08 2008 07:01 MrBabyHands wrote:On December 08 2008 06:46 Kalynn wrote:
Because a woman is not a pussy. she is a woman. I....I'm.... not sure i understand. Kalynn isn't a woman. But he's a pussy. You're obviously not understanding my point. The word pussy is a derogatory word used to describe both men and women. Calling someone a pussy is basically saying - 'you are equal to female genetalia, which is a bad thing to be.' I AM a woman, and I am sick of being called names, here. So if I call someone an asshole, I'm being derogative to every being in possession of an asshole? no, you are likening them to a particular body part that is not very pleasant
I hope you're only able to type because you have a computer in your kitchen.
In all seriousness, I think we all need to learn that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". Now, I'm not advocating apathy toward things we don't approve of and just taking it, but one shouldn't let it hinder our happiness,etc. In english class my teacher handed out a packet talking about Epictetus (I found it very interesting, I would quote his philosophy but I'm not at home ATM). Here are two of his quotes I found on Wiki:
We are disturbed not by events, but by the views which we take of them.
I must die. Must I then die lamenting? I must be put in chains. Must I then also lament? I must go into exile. Does any man then hinder me from going with smiles and cheerfulness and contentment?
I remember watching a video talking about African American students reading Huckleberry Finn and when they were interviewed most of them had a problem with the word "nigger" used in the book. In fact a mother of one of the students brought it to the teacher who required the reading (who also happened to be African American I believe) and to the school district to get the book removed from the required reading list. I found it absolutely ridiculous. Why is it so bad to read a word? I know, I know, it has a lot of negative history and depth behind it but COME ON. It's just a WORD. If I heard someone say the word "chink" or any other derogatory phrase toward asians, I wouldn't LIKE the person but most of the time people aren't even being serious, so I don't take it seriously.
Words are NOT serious business (especially not those on the internet).
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Hungary11291 Posts
On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread.
Some appear to be seeing this as a manifest issue though. Not only the op.
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On December 08 2008 07:55 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:52 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread. EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts. I didn't come here to troll. I came here to join a SC community. I'm allowed to voice my opinion if ive been personally offended by posts that go against the rules. If you're not a troll and can't tell the difference between the obvious troll posts here, stick to the starcraft forums. General and blogs have nothing to do with starcraft. You're either a troll or you're very new to the internet.
Are you denying the problem exists (even though it was demonstrated in this very thread)?
Would you agree to racial attacks towards an individual if he claimed he was offended by some racial posts here?
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MURICA15980 Posts
On December 08 2008 07:56 CFDragon wrote:
Even if it is just a troll post, there is a point here. It's a rule that's not being enforced. Why even put it in the commandments if there's not going to be anyone following it?
So I can ban you and use that as an excuse.
I actually have finals so I don't know why I'm here. Um I'm just going to close this, and if a mod want to reopen after reading more into it, feel free. I think this thread is already shit from what I've seen.
or at least feedback forum. Move it to closed if you wish.
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I agree with the op. Treating women as objects is wrong and demeaning. Now this may seem like a total hypocritical thing for me to say, especially because I was so honorably cited in the beginning of this topic, but I find it necessary to defend myself... My rant was not meant to be derogatory or sexist in any way. In fact, I was ranting about overachievers - people who fret about small differences in grades (A-'s and A's). Through my rant, however, I came to a higher understanding: I was merely angry at myself, my failure. Indeed, I was wrong in using such derogatory language in my blog, and I sincerely apologize.
I, too, acknowledge the plight of women. Good luck in your uphill struggle against this overwhelming avalanche of chauvinism.
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On December 08 2008 07:35 Archaic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 05:55 SonuvBob wrote:
We're very biased.
3 out of 5 women who post on TL are staff/honorary staff. staff/honorary staff? Wouldn't they both be honorary?
A diploma isnt the same thing as an honorary diploma
same thing here
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Definitely something we can work on. Admittedly, lots of websites put up with people being disrespectful towards women, but we don't have to here.
If we could mature as a community to something better that would be nice.
I personally was very disappointed with the immaturity displayed in Ace's mafia game: Some dumbass got the list of roles and told them to people.
For those of you unfamiliar with Mafia, that completely kills the game. There is no point in playing mafia when everyone knows everybody else's role.
How much of a prick do you have to be to do something like that?
Not only that, but a substantial amount of people received the information and used it, but kept quiet about it . . . newsflash--the winning team in the mafia game is not getting money or a prize or fame. There is no need to cheat to win.
But then again, starcraft is full of cheating prick hackers, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Back to the OP, I think people should be granted a higher degree of leniency for how they wish to post in their own blogs. But on any newsposts or less personal posts, I think we should all try to cool it on offensive remarks regarding race or gender.
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On December 08 2008 07:52 Kalynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread. EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts. I didn't come here to troll. I came here to join a SC community. I'm allowed to voice my opinion if ive been personally offended by posts that go against the rules.
U`ve been personally offended by what that guy said ?! omg!
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On December 08 2008 08:09 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:52 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread. EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts. I didn't come here to troll. I came here to join a SC community. I'm allowed to voice my opinion if ive been personally offended by posts that go against the rules. U`ve been personally offended by what that guy said ?! omg!
I don't see why you would downplay this as being unimportant.
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Poll: Do you feel that the TL Commandment about sexism should be enforced?
(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): I don't care
This is what it states: "Sexist remarks of any kind whatsoever will be dealt with especially harshly. Yeah, we have female members - and we sure as hell would like to keep them!"
Racism is not tolerated, is sexism not as important do you think?
I'm disappointed that this thread was brushed off as unimportant.
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Hungary11291 Posts
Actually this thread was a good starting point of enforcement  We already have two lucky guys who went to Disneyland.
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Zurich15328 Posts
On December 08 2008 08:23 Aesop wrote:Actually this thread was a good starting point of enforcement We already have two lucky guys who went to Disneyland.
This is actually why I am keeping this open. Bring out your worst people!
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On December 08 2008 08:27 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 08:23 Aesop wrote:Actually this thread was a good starting point of enforcement We already have two lucky guys who went to Disneyland. This is actually why I am keeping this open. Bring out your worst people!
Thank you for keeping the thread open zatic. Also for your actions in the Ban List.
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MURICA15980 Posts
WARNING TO ALL MEN
Police are warning all men who frequent clubs, parties & local pubs to be alert and stay cautious when offered a drink from any woman.
Many females use a date rape drug on the market called 'Beer.'
The drug is found in liquid form and is available anywhere. It comes in bottles, cans, or from taps and in large 'kegs'. Beer is used by female sexual predators at parties and bars to persuade their male victims to go home and sleep with them.
A woman needs only to get a guy to consume a few units of Beer and then simply ask him home for no strings attached sex.
Men are rendered helpless against this approach. After several beers, men will often succumb to the desires to sleep with horrific looking women to whom they would normally not be attracted.
After drinking beer, men often awaken with only hazy memories of exactly what happened to them the night before, often with just a vague feeling that 'something bad' occurred.
At other times these unfortunate men are swindled out of their life's savings, in a familiar scam known as 'a relationship.'
In extreme cases, the female may even be shrewd enough to entrap the unsuspecting male into a longer term form of servitude and punishment referred to as 'marriage.' Men are much more susceptible to this scam after beer is administered and sex is offered by the predatory females.
If you fall victim to this 'Beer' scam and the women administering it, there are male support groups where you can discuss the details of your shocking encounter with similarly victimized men.
For the support group nearest you, just look up 'Golf Courses' in the phone book.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Can we just go MYM style and make girls have pink backgrounds for their profiles? Is the OP a girl?
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MURICA15980 Posts
Yeah, pink with flowers and cute cartoon animals. Also quick links to Gossip Girl and The Food Network.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Ok I'm totally trolling. I'm done LOL
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I do think the op was a bit over-the-top when presenting her issue, but I actually sympathize with her for the number of "Hay guys! I'm making misogynic jokes in a topic advocating against... get this... MISOGYNY! I DO THINK I AM SO TERRIBLY CLEVER!" responses this topic has accumulated.
Personally, I think if TL has no intention of enforcing the rule in question, then they should at least come clean and remove it altogether. Just don't give the false pretense of enforcing something you don't really believe in or consider significant enough of an issue to take seriously.
Just my two cents.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Have you noticed the people who are so offended by this are new posters?
Honestly, there is a line between something that is appropriate in public conversation vs private conversation, right? In public, you usually have to be far more politically correct because people tend to misunderstand you and take offense, but in the privacy of our homes where people know how we really feel, we are usually comfortable enough to crack jokes because all parties involved know it is a joke and will not get a big dick over it. Such is the correlation between the relatively new posters being offended vs the veterans who do not care as much; when you are more comfortable in a community and know what to expect, you don't get offended by every little thing.
So the question comes down to: how personal do we want TL.net's forum to be. If you make it too formal and strict, it just turns into an anonymous, public place that is dull and has no personality. If you make it too loose, you just end up having idiots running around acting like they own the place and being excessively rude as they hide behind their computers. It's all about looking for that balance, and that is why a lot of stuff is not enforced strictly, although we like our members to keep in mind the formal rules as without them, there is no general guideline.
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Braavos36375 Posts
On December 08 2008 08:43 Spritescaper wrote:
I do think the op was a bit over-the-top when presenting her issue, but I actually sympathize with her for the number of "Hay guys! I'm making misogynic jokes in a topic advocating against... get this... MISOGYNY! I DO THINK I AM SO TERRIBLY CLEVER!" responses this topic has accumulated.
Personally, I think if TL has no intention of enforcing the rule in question, then they should at least come clean and remove it altogether. Just don't give the false pretense of enforcing something you don't really believe in or consider significant enough of an issue to take seriously.
Just my two cents.
yeah lets just add an 11th commandment, thou shalt tolerate misogyny
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On December 08 2008 08:54 Klogon wrote:
So the question comes down to: how personal do we want TL.net's forum to be. If you make it too formal and strict, it just turns into an anonymous, public place that is dull and has no personality. If you make it too loose, you just end up having idiots running around acting like they own the place and being excessively rude as they hide behind their computers. It's all about looking for that balance, and that is why a lot of stuff is not enforced strictly, although we like our members to keep in mind the formal rules as without them, there is no general guideline.
I think the op is well aware of the balance - it's just that it's a little off. She's not asking for strict enforcement and banhammer all the way - just that the mods make certain people aware of that there is indeed a line between good fun and being excessively rude. And that some may be way over it.
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On December 08 2008 08:54 Klogon wrote:
Have you noticed the people who are so offended by this are new posters?
Honestly, there is a line between something that is appropriate in public conversation vs private conversation, right? In public, you usually have to be far more politically correct because people tend to misunderstand you and take offense, but in the privacy of our homes where people know how we really feel, we are usually comfortable enough to crack jokes because all parties involved know it is a joke and will not get a big dick over it. Such is the correlation between the relatively new posters being offended vs the veterans who do not care as much; when you are more comfortable in a community and know what to expect, you don't get offended by every little thing.
So the question comes down to: how personal do we want TL.net's forum to be. If you make it too formal and strict, it just turns into an anonymous, public place that is dull and has no personality. If you make it too loose, you just end up having idiots running around acting like they own the place and being excessively rude as they hide behind their computers. It's all about looking for that balance, and that is why a lot of stuff is not enforced strictly, although we like our members to keep in mind the formal rules as without them, there is no general guideline.
Enforcing a rule about not being disrespectful and sexist will cause this place to become "anonymous, dull, with no personality"? I thought your jokes about rape and beer and the gossip channel and stuff to be really poor taste, basically laughing at someone who was trying to raise a genuine concern. I would think as a moderator you would at least try and keep such humor out of this thread.
Don't get me wrong, I like this place and appreciate all the huge work put into it, but it seems a small concession to treat sexism the same way as racism, so the place is more welcoming to women who want to be a part of the community. I don't see how post count or new/old timer status is relevant to the issue. A more respectful environment benefits everyone.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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yosh you're really exemplifying klogons idea here
every post he's made in this thread has been histerical. we can laugh at it because he is not a stranger at TL.
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On December 08 2008 07:54 FzeroXx wrote:
The point is that you have no contribution to the community, and you're trying to fix something you don't belong to. It's a little.. strange.
who the fuck are you? I'm sorry, did I miss the part where someone decided you are the authority on who has any contribution to the community?
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MURICA15980 Posts
LOOOOOL
I just started dying laughing in this hardcore biomedical library and all the med students are glaring at me for interrupting their studying LOL
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On December 08 2008 08:32 Klogon wrote:
WARNING TO ALL MEN
Police are warning all men who frequent clubs, parties & local pubs to be alert and stay cautious when offered a drink from any woman.
Many females use a date rape drug on the market called 'Beer.'
The drug is found in liquid form and is available anywhere. It comes in bottles, cans, or from taps and in large 'kegs'. Beer is used by female sexual predators at parties and bars to persuade their male victims to go home and sleep with them.
A woman needs only to get a guy to consume a few units of Beer and then simply ask him home for no strings attached sex.
Men are rendered helpless against this approach. After several beers, men will often succumb to the desires to sleep with horrific looking women to whom they would normally not be attracted.
After drinking beer, men often awaken with only hazy memories of exactly what happened to them the night before, often with just a vague feeling that 'something bad' occurred.
At other times these unfortunate men are swindled out of their life's savings, in a familiar scam known as 'a relationship.'
In extreme cases, the female may even be shrewd enough to entrap the unsuspecting male into a longer term form of servitude and punishment referred to as 'marriage.' Men are much more susceptible to this scam after beer is administered and sex is offered by the predatory females.
If you fall victim to this 'Beer' scam and the women administering it, there are male support groups where you can discuss the details of your shocking encounter with similarly victimized men.
For the support group nearest you, just look up 'Golf Courses' in the phone book.
hahahaa i'd never read that before, nice
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Norway28672 Posts
hahaha klogons posts are hilarious
also, what the OP needs to realize is, even though we did not strictly moderate say, Dutch' post about "styles" when picking up women, there was a form of moderation there : ridicule. I laughed out loud when I read his post because it was so incredibly stupid. it didn't offend me, but I certainly didn't think it was "good" or "cool". most people didnt, in fact most people agreed that it was hilariously stupid..
now, maybe you're right in the fact that the 10 commandments makes it seem like we shut down misogyny on the same level as racism. if someone made a thread called "styles when lynching niggers" and wrote about the different ways this could done, he certainly would have been banned and thread closed etc. but well, that would also be on a whole different level of racism than this was on a level of sexism. :p
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On December 08 2008 13:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
hahaha klogons posts are hilarious
also, what the OP needs to realize is, even though we did not strictly moderate say, Dutch' post about "styles" when picking up women, there was a form of moderation there : ridicule. I laughed out loud when I read his post because it was so incredibly stupid. it didn't offend me, but I certainly didn't think it was "good" or "cool". most people didnt, in fact most people agreed that it was hilariously stupid..
now, maybe you're right in the fact that the 10 commandments makes it seem like we shut down misogyny on the same level as racism. if someone made a thread called "styles when lynching niggers" and wrote about the different ways this could done, he certainly would have been banned and thread closed etc. but well, that would also be on a whole different level of racism than this was on a level of sexism. :p
I think stuff like this is always going to exist on some level - here mostly in joking. I know that there are funny jokes and ways in which it is seemingly acceptable to use this language (ie. "bitch, please" etc). On the other hand, it becomes a problem when its not funny, and used innapropriately. Its only there to insult or get a rise out of people.
If you are really pissed off about something and call your ex something or other, its a whole other story than constantly referring to women as bitches and hoes. If a comment like, say, the third post in the "styles" thread is unnecesary, irrelevant and offensive I think that there should be some action taken.
For the most part, I wanted people to consider language used when talking about women, it makes a negative and insulting environment to the few girls who are here.
EDIT: I just wanted people to cool it and think twice before they post something nasty, and obviously my post did little good
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On December 08 2008 14:04 Kalynn wrote:
If a comment like, say, the third post in the "styles" thread is unnecesary, irrelevant and offensive I think that there should be some action taken.
you mean the poker story post? that was a joke story
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On December 08 2008 14:08 a-game wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 14:04 Kalynn wrote:
If a comment like, say, the third post in the "styles" thread is unnecesary, irrelevant and offensive I think that there should be some action taken. you mean the poker story post? that was a joke story
yes i know, but it wasnt funny. i think only one person acknowledged it as being such..
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MURICA15980 Posts
For the most part, I'd say mission accomplished for you. I'll definitely be keeping what you said in mind when I read over the forums for ridiculous violators.
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But on the other hand, saying we should "take action" against cz for posting the poker story is pretty absurd.
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On December 08 2008 14:57 SonuvBob wrote:
But on the other hand, saying we should "take action" against cz for posting the poker story is pretty absurd.
i'm not asking you to take action against cz, i was simply using that as an example
i just want people to think about because it didnt seem to me that people thought twice before saying such things
EDIT: i meant in the future maybe to take stronger action against offensive posts
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[don't link to porn sites. - mod]
PS- wow, this thread is huge.
also for the lulz
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
I'm one of the only other female members here as far as I'm aware, but I live in the TL IRC mainly and you just get used to it - I have to admit to being just as bad as some of the guys here at times (sorry Scaramanga - one day I'll stop abusing you for your rampant KTF fanboyism....maybe.)
Some of those blog posts are pretty hilarious too - I do agree upon some levels though that as it's a rule here maybe some of the more extreme posts should be put into the closed section - they do add to an atmosphere that might not welcome girl gamers with less liberal senses of humor.
I am a tad surprised to see some people on this thread who I consider friends over at IRC making some pretty rude/lacking in constructive thought comments though - that makes me think twice about giving some of them the time of day - especially when I receive so many requests for special photos of gamers/favors/information on a daily basis from people who'd brush off someone's genuine concern (the op.)
TBH I'm not angry at them, more ashamed to see grown men behaving in such a childish manner on a forum which is supposed to be for everyone.
P.S. That 'no girls on the internet' thing gets so old, so fucking fast. It's the only element of being around here that annoys the hell out of me.
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CharlieMurphy I wonder how long it took you to find ALL those pics :O
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hahaha@klogon`s post
and,
On December 08 2008 08:54 Klogon wrote:
Have you noticed the people who are so offended by this are new posters?
yeah because when they login, they get 10 commandments page, and they are out of ideas for a new thread soo..why not?
I don`t wanna be a troll but, this is waaay exaggerated imo
also, really nice pics Charlie
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3861 Posts
Hmm. I feel like I should post something.
I agree with the OP to a point, there are some times where the joking goes a bit far, but I also realize that it's the internet, people post stupid shit all the time.
On December 08 2008 07:54 FzeroXx wrote:
The point is that you have no contribution to the community, and you're trying to fix something you don't belong to. It's a little.. strange.
Though another thing I've learned is that you can only complain about what you don't like - if you've already earned status in the community that you are trying to "change".
On December 08 2008 07:55 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2008 07:52 Kalynn wrote:On December 08 2008 07:50 LonelyMargarita wrote:On December 08 2008 07:46 iloveoil wrote:
ya'll niggas posting in a troll thread The OP is the troll. Someone with like 5 posts suddenly makes a conflict-oriented thread that he posts 30 times in? It's pretty obvious. I would recommend closing the thread. EDIT: Also IP check the OP for other accounts. I didn't come here to troll. I came here to join a SC community. I'm allowed to voice my opinion if ive been personally offended by posts that go against the rules. If you're not a troll and can't tell the difference between the obvious troll posts here, stick to the starcraft forums. General and blogs have nothing to do with starcraft. You're either a troll or you're very new to the internet.
As any forum community, yes you came to join a SC community, but you have to realize that the culture has already been set here. What LM said is right, general and blogs are hardly a place to judge the community.
Our community base - I'm assuming - is like 98% male between the ages of 14 and 30. If I was to go into a frat house and demand respect, I'd get laughed at. It's almost the same thing, but to an even higher degree because, well, this is the internet where all the boys posting can hide behind a screen and type the things that they would be too afraid to say in real life. Of course, some of these guys are assholes IRL as well, but that's a whole different story....
I don't condone it, but at the same time... when in Rome...
And if you come across a specific post that really really truly offends you, you express your opinion then - to the OP or to a MOD. By making a generalized post or statement will only make you look like a troll and no one will take you seriously.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
I just want to state that I completely endorse women
- Pholon
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I'm pretty sure TL is comprised of mainly males.
You should realize that TL is probably comprised of mainly males.
I don't visit "Cosmopolitan" communities or sites and complain about all of the women gossiping, cracking jokes about, or slandering men.
You shouldn't visit TL and complain about how "macho" the TL atmosphere is.
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On December 09 2008 03:34 BruceLee6783 wrote:
I'm pretty sure TL is comprised of mainly males.
You should realize that TL is probably comprised of mainly males.
I don't visit "Cosmopolitan" communities or sites and complain about all of the women gossiping, cracking jokes about, or slandering men.
You shouldn't visit TL and complain about how "macho" the TL atmosphere is.
Are you saying I can't be involved in a progaming community forum because I’m not male?
EDIT: It would be different if I went to male-focused websited and made a fuss. I didn't see a "men only welcome" sign when I first got here.
I made my point, some people cracked insulting jokes at me, some people genuinely supported me, I’m not trying to change TL or the whole internet for that matter, you have to understand that I’m not trying to be some sort of feminazi here, i'm just requesting a little discretion
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the only reason why racist/ sexist jokes are funny and are accepted is because we are racist/ sexist ourselves.
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On December 09 2008 05:06 ItchReliever wrote:
the only reason why racist/ sexist jokes are funny and are accepted is because we are racist/ sexist ourselves.
i'm not saying that everyone has to stop every thing they say, i just mean, tone it down. theres a line, and i posed because it got crossed
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3861 Posts
On December 09 2008 03:34 BruceLee6783 wrote:
I'm pretty sure TL is comprised of mainly males.
You should realize that TL is probably comprised of mainly males.
I don't visit "Cosmopolitan" communities or sites and complain about all of the women gossiping, cracking jokes about, or slandering men.
You shouldn't visit TL and complain about how "macho" the TL atmosphere is.
This is true. Go to a community that's comprised of mainly women and there will be a TON of slanderous things said about men.
Just next time if something really bothers you, PM a mod or a staff member. Perhaps another fellow female who can stick up for you. ^^
Besides you, OP, (and I'm not taking a stab at ya) I just feel like anytime a "newer member" (biased by post count and/or "how much you've contributed to the community") makes threads like this, they usually just get ridiculed or insulted. Kinda like that guy who nicely suggested that TL gets a new layout or something. That's probably why you came off as feminazi or something, since the community doesn't really know you and can only base you off of this one post.
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On December 09 2008 08:10 lilsusie wrote:
Go to a community that's comprised of mainly women and there will be a TON of slanderous things said about men.
This is true, I never said it wasn't. I'm not making men out to be the bad guys here, its just not part of my arguement.
I know TL bases a lot of decisions on senior members and heirchy but I thought that my voice would be heard on what is a legitimate problem. I never meant to attack anyone, I simply wanted to raise a point because in my eyes a forum rule was being grossly ignored.. maybe I should have made it a blog? but i dont think it would have turned out differently. I answered posts cooly and intelligently so I'm surprised at the harassment (thats not directed at you, just in general)
EDIT: I also think that if i simply PMed a mod then the attitude here wouldnt have changed except in a few small cases. There were people who responded here who honestly apologised and admitted to things that have been done. While it ended in a big mess, I still think it was necessary to bring it to the attention of everyone.
I dont want to beat a dead horse here, but I can't let criticisms go unacknowledged.
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Vatican City State491 Posts
Speaking of girls on tl.net - does anyone know what happened to zia after the ban?
Did he come back using another ID?
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I'd say if people are being horrendously offensive in a StarCraft topic, moderators should deal with it and at least warn the poster...
But the only time I've ever seen people say words like 'whore,' 'bitch,' and 'slut,' is in relationship threads.... And I mean, give me a damn break. It's 'sour grapes' defence mechanism (to take a page from Freud) and EVERYONE does it. No guy is saying every woman in the world is a bitch and a whore and a slut, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who are misinterpreting it that way.
You're honestly getting offended for the sake of being offended. For fucks sake, girls will call EACH OTHER bitches and sluts and whores more than any guy I know does. You listen to a girl talk about a girl she doesn't like, and it invariably happens. It's never been about generalizing a whole population of women to fit these roles, it's been to talk about a specific person you don't like.
If you're gonna argue no one should ever use the word 'dick,' or 'pussy,' in a derogatory manner... Speak for yourself, because no one else is being subconsciously influenced to hate all people with vaginas or penises.
One last thing... I know you think you've done something by creating a whole mess, but you really haven't. You've just got a bunch of people reminded of why they hate over zealous feminists (and a few people who desperately want to gain the praise of a woman, so they go along with your bullshit).
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i dont understand why everyone is so angry, i just wanted people to show a little respect,
seeing as im obviously not wanted here, have it your way, i'm not coming back
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Did you come here for StarCraft? If not, then I don't know why you came here at all. If you did, just eat a bit of humble pie and keep posting with us enlightened to our standards. Nobody hates you or doesn't want you here. They just want you to start making contributive posts, instead of just complaining about everything.
Stay if you like StarCraft. Leave if you don't. That's all. I'm sure you didn't join a StarCraft forum to talk about political correctness.
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Braavos36375 Posts
On December 09 2008 12:24 Kalynn wrote:
i dont understand why everyone is so angry, i just wanted people to show a little respect,
seeing as im obviously not wanted here, have it your way, i'm not coming back
To be a longtime member here, as with most forums, you're going to need some thick skin. When you posted this thread you obviously understood that it wouldn't be received with 100% approval, you can't honestly expect a population of guys whose behavior prompted you to create this thread to just say "oh i see we were wrong" did you?
You raised some awareness, got some agreement (from me included), but also received a lot of criticism and flaming, which is par for the course when you suggest things to a community as resistant to change as a BW / TL one.
My advice to you is to not let a few comments by a few angry people prevent you from visiting the forums. You are a new poster and you shouldn't expect a red carpet rollout from anyone. You should come to TL.net for the content first and slowly develop a sense of community and connection, not to "feel wanted" right off the bat. Going all emo martyr with the "i'm obviously not wanted, i'm not coming back" is just a bad attitude to take. If this thread was so offensive to you that you can't bear to return, you probably wouldn't have made it past 1000 posts anyway. Toughen up a bit.
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Good post hotbid, nice to see something other than total dismissal and ridicule. Anyway I think lots of good points have been made on both sides of the issue and I don't have anything more to add. I think awareness has been raised, and that was what the OP was trying for. I like TL and frequent it a lot, that's why I spoke up in this thread, because even a good thing can always be improved.
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i liked playing starcraft back in the day and never liked the pro scene SC. Visiting TL can at times have very little to do with starcraft.
also, low post count users are much more respected when they do in fact keep between the lines until they've built themselves a reputation and then their views are taken into more serious consideration, so anyone could have foreseen exactly where this thread was headed. It should not be a terrible reflection on the community, it would have happened with any thread on any subject. This is a whole separate issue people will argue about until the death but that dead horse could use a break.
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On December 09 2008 05:06 ItchReliever wrote:
the only reason why racist/ sexist jokes are funny and are accepted is because we are racist/ sexist ourselves.
actually it's because we don't take any of them "seriously" and therefore they don't have an emotional impact on us.
i recently added this link to my blog, it has some relevence
being a minority, you get swamped with these jokes and it feels like bullying. the only way to counter it is to either be completely desensitised to it (and since its not directed at you specifically this shud b easy)
the other only way is to talk shit just as hard right back at them, obviously a lot of ppl dont care to do this, and obviously its hell of a lot harder since ur a minority (actually this isnt true if you're intelligent or can be bothered to put some effort into it - a lot of retards are just as easy to pwn as one retard if theyre all being retarded in the same manner)
so the conclusion? understand that ppl are always just fucking around, and if you dont think they are then either talk shit back at them / pwn them back , or just scroll down and let them get on with their own little world
there are enough stupid posts regarding other subjects than sexism; you treat them all in the same manner.
sometimes i go off on a rant (some people listen, most dont), and sometimes i just let them get on with it . it's worth bringing it up but bare in mind everything i've said and that most people are tools and aren't able to change so unless theyre specifically targetting you as a person just squelch them and be done with it
in the same way u squelch all other stupid or unfunny or rediculous posts
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CA10828 Posts
look, this shouldn't even be an issue
the next time you write a post, preview it first. if it looks like it belongs on 4chan, whether due to (lack of) content or attitude, then don't post it.
people just need to use better judgment on what they post, simple as that.
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don't sweat it homes, bitches ain't shit.
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On December 10 2008 03:01 mahnini wrote:
don't sweat it homes, bitches ain't shit.
..but hoes and tricks.
But yea, as everyone already said, this is primarily a male community, as is the game itself, so how could you not expect comments like the ones you're arguing about.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Bitches ain't nothing but tricks and dimes.
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lesbian rugby players agree.
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On December 10 2008 15:10 Rekrul wrote:
Bitches ain't nothing but tricks and dimes.
only you rekrul.... only you.
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this thread makes me wanna talk about it! girl power!! i'm lastshadow's girlfriend and i know that means a lot because i am here to fight for equal female rights giiirl powa!
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