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US Politics Feedback Thread - Page 42

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xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
January 18 2017 18:59 GMT
#821
I find it absolutely hilarious that people would accuse me of strawmanning there. Do we really need to revisit the very uncomfortable conversation that was had this past summer when I accused the BLM rioters and looters as being vermin? The bottom line is that there are large numbers of people on the left -- including posters in the US Politics Thread -- who go out of their way to defend the bad acts of BLM.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18040 Posts
January 18 2017 19:01 GMT
#822
is the the message from the left "it's okay for black people to riot and break shit because they're not going to be able to get the attention of anyone through peaceful means." is that their message? if so, what's wrong with the post?

if its not then why can't people discuss in a civil manner exactly what the message from the left is?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 18 2017 19:04 GMT
#823
Yeah, I see no problem here either.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18488 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-18 19:57:18
January 18 2017 19:56 GMT
#824
On January 19 2017 04:01 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is the the message from the left "it's okay for black people to riot and break shit because they're not going to be able to get the attention of anyone through peaceful means." is that their message? if so, what's wrong with the post?

if its not then why can't people discuss in a civil manner exactly what the message from the left is?

To answer that you'd have to go quite a bit further than is viable in the feedback thread. For starters, you'd have to unpack who "the left" is, and whether nobody anybody, or a majority of them say that.

And hence xDaunt posted some underspecified hyperbole. But it's pretty much in line with what he always posts, and there are right and wrong ways of responding to it. To be fair, though, that post from a non-staff would have gotten reported for breaking thread rules, and judging by other actions in the thread, could have copped a warning for not keeping the hyperbole to a dull roar.

That said, TM just broke forum rules, not just thread rules, and had been posting far edgier stuff than xDaunt for a few weeks now.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
January 18 2017 20:07 GMT
#825
Not that anyone cares what I think, but in my mind "vermin" was way more dog whistle-ey than that post, and no action came of "vermin," so this seems like a non-conversation. Sure, xDaunt is implying that a large and largely peaceful political movement is just a bunch of rioters and looters, but at least this time his terminology implies that they are, in fact, people.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
January 18 2017 20:33 GMT
#826
On January 19 2017 04:01 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is the the message from the left "it's okay for black people to riot and break shit because they're not going to be able to get the attention of anyone through peaceful means." is that their message? if so, what's wrong with the post?

if its not then why can't people discuss in a civil manner exactly what the message from the left is?


This question was answered over a century ago. Hence the presumption an educated person like xDaunt is being intentionally inflammatory or just really that immersed in white privilege.

Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights. There are thus elements of emotional catharsis in the violent act. This may explain why most cities in which riots have occurred have not had a repetition, even though the causative conditions remain. It is also noteworthy that the amount of physical harm done to white people other than police is infinitesimal and in Detroit whites and Negroes looted in unity.

A profound judgment of today's riots was expressed by Victor Hugo a century ago. He said, 'If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.'

The policymakers of the white society have caused the darkness; they create discrimination; they structured slums; and they perpetuate unemployment, ignorance and poverty. It is incontestable and deplorable that Negroes have committed crimes; but they are derivative crimes. They are born of the greater crimes of the white society. When we ask Negroes to abide by the law, let us also demand that the white man abide by law in the ghettos. Day-in and day-out he violates welfare laws to deprive the poor of their meager allotments; he flagrantly violates building codes and regulations; his police make a mockery of law; and he violates laws on equal employment and education and the provisions for civic services. The slums are the handiwork of a vicious system of the white society; Negroes live in them but do not make them any more than a prisoner makes a prison. Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society.


Source
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18040 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-18 20:45:48
January 18 2017 20:40 GMT
#827
so in 1917 or earlier the 2017 "message from the left" was answered? huh
what is the current, 2017 "message from the left"? we know what xDaunt believes it is.

and what is stopping it from being discussed in a civil manner?

provide a rebuttal and a discussion can ensue.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
January 18 2017 20:45 GMT
#828
On January 19 2017 05:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
so in 1917 or earlier the 2017 "message from the left" was answered? huh
what is the current, 2017 message from left? we know what xDaunt believes it is.

and what is stopping it from being discussed in a civil manner?


The message from the oppressed regarding violence/looting was addressed more than 100 years ago and it hasn't changed significantly.

There's not much to discuss, it's just a matter of people being willing to accept information. It's not that xDaunt isn't aware, he just refuses to accept it.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18040 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-18 20:50:22
January 18 2017 20:49 GMT
#829
it specifically states the "message from the left". so you are equating with anyone "from the left" as oppressed?
providing a concrete example: my mom is a Canadian NDP voter, pretty left wing. she made half a million dollars last year; has 3 university degree and publishes her research regularly. u r saying she is oppressed?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
January 18 2017 20:53 GMT
#830
On January 19 2017 05:49 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
it specifically states the "message from the left". so you are equating with anyone "from the left" as oppressed?
providing a concrete example: my mom is a Canadian NDP voter, pretty left wing. she made half a million dollars last year. u r saying she is oppressed?

Maybe I misunderstood, I'm talking about BLM and it's real supporters. It's tough with words like "the left" since who that references depends on who's using it.

But in reference to violence and looting related to BLM the position is clear.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
January 18 2017 20:53 GMT
#831
ok guys, this is a feedback thread not a discussion one. If you guys want to continue this discussion, please take it to the politics thread and let's keep this thread on point.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18040 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-19 22:43:50
January 19 2017 22:42 GMT
#832
On January 19 2017 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2017 05:49 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
it specifically states the "message from the left". so you are equating with anyone "from the left" as oppressed?
providing a concrete example: my mom is a Canadian NDP voter, pretty left wing. she made half a million dollars last year. u r saying she is oppressed?

Maybe I misunderstood, I'm talking about BLM and it's real supporters. It's tough with words like "the left" since who that references depends on who's using it.
But in reference to violence and looting related to BLM the position is clear.

if its difficult to understand the precise meaning of xDaunt's post then request clarification by the author. taking it to website feedback does not move the discussion forward. requesting clarification in the US Politics thread provides the best possibility of moving the discussion forward.

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-22 18:34:52
January 22 2017 18:33 GMT
#833
frustration levels high, too many shitty posters making basic errors in argumentation in thread; and sticking to it long after being proven wrong, likewise continually asserting as true things without foundation that have long since been addressed very thoroughly.
I repeat my usual complaint, diatribe, and call for change and moderation.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18488 Posts
January 22 2017 18:37 GMT
#834
On January 23 2017 03:33 zlefin wrote:
frustration levels high, too many shitty posters making basic errors in argumentation in thread; and sticking to it long after being proven wrong, likewise continually asserting as true things without foundation that have long since been addressed very thoroughly.
I repeat my usual complaint, diatribe, and call for change and moderation.

Huh? You mean sharkie? You can report him, but I don't think it'll go anywhere. Him being wrong does not equate to him needing to be actioned.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
January 22 2017 20:50 GMT
#835
how long does it take to read 400 posts? and is it worth it?
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
January 22 2017 20:57 GMT
#836
On January 23 2017 05:50 IgnE wrote:
how long does it take to read 400 posts? and is it worth it?

My involvement has been relatively heavier in the past 400 posts if that helps you.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 25 2017 20:04 GMT
#837
Why was I warned for posting tweets from Trump wherein he made a policy announcement? I read the mod notes and still don't quite understand. Am I supposed to editorialize on what those tweets meant?
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6678 Posts
January 25 2017 21:18 GMT
#838
That's funny. Here are some approved ways to post tweets:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=6641#132810
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=6635#132697
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
KadaverBB
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany25658 Posts
January 25 2017 23:13 GMT
#839
I don't particularly agree with the warning and have removed it from your history.
Have to think about how we want to handle tweets from now on though.
AdministratorLaws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
January 26 2017 01:32 GMT
#840
Trump tweets are fine. Tweets with independently verifiable news should be okay. Everything else should be banned.
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