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I've been watching the MLG/IEM streams tonight and I log on TL , and all I see are big giant "Preview" articles discussing the different groups in your banner rotator - Why are you focusing your main site (being the mecha of SC2 websites in NA) on outdated articles when you're spending tons of resources actually covering these events, then linking them in an obscure fashion?
My instant reaction is to click on the big picture that says MLG to get coverage, not scour your front page for a text link to a link to a portal to take me to your live feed coverage.
I think you need to re-evaluate your priorities in covering major events and how your site is used for that purpose. I don't think I'm the only person out there that relies on this site being a portal to major events/coverage in the community.
Also, I think you should have a "Tournaments" header for your Live Stream section so that you can differentiate between user streams and tournament streams (IPL, NASL, IEM, MLG, Etc) Right now, you're linking NASL and not MLG/IEM?
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You don't like it send your complaint to the website review section. And you want a better event page than teamliquid.net/mlg ? Seriously? That things amazing. You don't like it, go make a better one.
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Totally uncalled for. You can complain in Website Feedback. Otherwisse the Liquipedia team is always updating results live.
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You guys obviously didn't read what I said
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Post this in Website Feedback.
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Exactly. So you're basically too lazy to click one more link? ....
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I'm an annoyed user, what difference does it make whether I post this with sunshine and rainbows, the point remains.
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Also this isn't a big deal to me but it just seems very unprofessional in design for such a site - I'm simply offering them a solution to a very obvious flaw in their layout. One extra click is the difference between a large percentage of people visiting something.
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i might get suspended for this
but
IBthelock
User was temp banned for this post.
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United States22154 Posts
On October 15 2011 09:45 TortoiseCa wrote:
I'm an annoyed user, what difference does it make whether I post this with sunshine and rainbows, the point remains.
Woe is you! You have to click TWICE to reach the fantastic content TL provides!
Truly this deserves an angry rant, perhaps using the opportunity to talk about how fascist and socialist the TL mods are.
Seriously the first rule of giving constructive criticism is to give it in a way that will not offend the recipient, otherwise the person being advised will be immediately turned off and respond with hostility.
Honestly I don't think the fact that you need to go to the front page to find the coverage is a major deal, if you are watching the stream on TL you can *probably* figure it out.
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Definitely a thread for Website Feedback (I'm guessing a mod will move this sometime in the near future?  ), but I agree with the sentiments of the OP. While the coverage portals are super awesome, they rely on one of the following:
1. You already know the URL and go there directly
2. You already know about the live report threads and where to find them
2a. You know of/discover the links to the respective coverage portal in the LR thread.
IMO doing either what's suggested in the OP or at least have some nice buttons/links on the home page to the currently active coverage portals would be great. n_n
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This thread fails to deliver the expected Fresh Prince. 
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On October 15 2011 09:50 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 09:45 TortoiseCa wrote:
I'm an annoyed user, what difference does it make whether I post this with sunshine and rainbows, the point remains.
Woe is you! You have to click TWICE to reach the fantastic content TL provides! Truly this deserves an angry rant, perhaps using the opportunity to talk about how fascist and socialist the TL mods are. Seriously the first rule of giving constructive criticism is to give it in a way that will not offend the recipient, otherwise the person being advised will be immediately turned off and respond with hostility. Honestly I don't think the fact that you need to go to the front page to find the coverage is a major deal, if you are watching the stream on TL you can *probably* figure it out.
If you actually read my post, I'm not actually being hostile. I'm simply stating facts. That you take that as hostile, just proves how severe of an issue it is.
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On October 15 2011 09:50 Cokefreak wrote:This thread fails to deliver the expected Fresh Prince.
ahahahahah
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On October 15 2011 09:50 GMarshal wrote:
Truly this deserves an angry rant, perhaps using the opportunity to talk about how fascist and socialist the TL mods are.
What the...? How on earth did you manage to bring something like this up in a thread completely devoid of such political TL staff bashing?
Some folks just want a faster/easier way to find the tournament coverage portals that TL has made, without needing to memorize the URLs. It can only help, too; as it stands, not everyone is aware that the portals are there for their convenience, since they are kinda buried in semi-obscurity.
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United States22154 Posts
On October 15 2011 09:55 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 09:50 GMarshal wrote:
Truly this deserves an angry rant, perhaps using the opportunity to talk about how fascist and socialist the TL mods are. What the...? How on earth did you manage to bring something like this up in a thread completely devoid of such political TL staff bashing? Some folks just want a faster/easier way to find the tournament coverage portals that TL has made, without needing to memorize the URLs. It can only help, too; as it stands, not everyone is aware that the portals are there for their convenience, since they are kinda buried in semi-obscurity.
It was a joke >.> <.<
I just felt like the OP came off as hostile, I didn't really mean anything by it ^_^
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LOL, I have never had a problem finding streams or info using Team Liquid. It is a community site... It is focused on the community...
I am 1 click away from the stream. 2 clicks away from event info...
All in the top 25 percent of the screen.
Even when you do click the "big picture" the first link on the page is to the TL coverage portal...
The site does not give away results from event on the main page for the sake of those who didn't get to watch live. The community is global and some leagues events are rebroadcasted for the sake of those in different time zones. FOR THE SAKE OF E-SPORTS JUST WATCH THE STREAMS and enjoy the content you get
A couple days after the event you will have you will have a nice detailed analysis of the event...
Good luck
The event streams always take priority over player streams... The event streams even have a title over them... Don't know what you want them to do.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On October 15 2011 09:45 TortoiseCa wrote:
I'm an annoyed user, what difference does it make whether I post this with sunshine and rainbows, the point remains.
It makes a pretty huge difference, actually. Even if you bring up valid points, if you express them like an idiot, all I think is "this guy's opinion doesn't matter".
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Thank you for your feedback.
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I think if I added a smiley face to my post, this would not be a discussion. Somebody quote one thing that I've said that is not a fact please??????????????
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This is being discussed in a different topic, however, from a different perspective (same point tho).
The main reason why the front page consist of previews and not the actual results of everything is because of spoilers, now, it can be discussed whether it's good or bad for the website, the community or e-sports as a whole to do this. This is being discussed here.
Personally, I don't mind how it all works, the portal pages are amazing and they are constantly being shouted out by the tournament organizers, so people that really want to look at them should have no trouble accessing them.
On October 15 2011 09:39 TortoiseCa wrote:
Also, I think you should have a "Tournaments" header for your Live Stream section so that you can differentiate between user streams and tournament streams (IPL, NASL, IEM, MLG, Etc) Right now, you're linking NASL and not MLG/IEM?
I don't really know what you're on about, they've linked the IEM and MLG streams (on the homepage, "ON AIR:") as soon as the events started and have kept the links up, so yeah.
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On October 15 2011 09:58 Plexa wrote:
Thank you for your feedback.
You're welcome. Sorry if this came across as hostile, I didn't mean to be a jerk.
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You're such an awful poster, honestly, TL has done you a favor by not banning you already.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 15 2011 10:03 Saechiis wrote:
You're such an awful poster, honestly, TL has done you a favor by not banning you already.
It takes all sorts to make the world go 'round kid. I shoot from the hip, sorry that doesn't meet your criteria for a poster.
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On October 15 2011 10:07 TortoiseCa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 10:03 Saechiis wrote:
You're such an awful poster, honestly, TL has done you a favor by not banning you already. It takes all sorts to make the world go 'round kid. I shoot from the hip, sorry that doesn't meet your criteria for a poster.
Maybe if you weren't in a dreadfully tiny minority of people who were born this century and don't know how to use a website you have to refresh once in a while, this wouldn't be an issue.
You sound incredibly ungrateful for not being much of a contributor.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 15 2011 10:10 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 10:07 TortoiseCa wrote:On October 15 2011 10:03 Saechiis wrote:
You're such an awful poster, honestly, TL has done you a favor by not banning you already. It takes all sorts to make the world go 'round kid. I shoot from the hip, sorry that doesn't meet your criteria for a poster. Maybe if you weren't in a dreadfully tiny minority of people who were born this century and don't know how to use a website you have to refresh once in a while, this wouldn't be an issue. You sound incredibly ungrateful for not being much of a contributor.
You honestly have no idea what you're talking about. A website gets 50k hits a day. On big event coverage nights - maybe 150k. But of those 150k, 90k of them are not going to find TL's portal site. Not because they aren't intelligent enough, but because they're too lazy and it's easier to just google something.
But yeah, I guess I'm in that "dreadfully tiny minority" ... Keep talking down to me like you know something, kid.
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On October 15 2011 10:07 TortoiseCa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 10:03 Saechiis wrote:
You're such an awful poster, honestly, TL has done you a favor by not banning you already. It takes all sorts to make the world go 'round kid. I shoot from the hip, sorry that doesn't meet your criteria for a poster.
If you really don't want to act like a jerk and come across as hostile, maybe you should try to stop pretending your offensive posting is actually a transcendent form of honesty.
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On October 15 2011 10:14 TortoiseCa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 10:10 JingleHell wrote:On October 15 2011 10:07 TortoiseCa wrote:On October 15 2011 10:03 Saechiis wrote:
You're such an awful poster, honestly, TL has done you a favor by not banning you already. It takes all sorts to make the world go 'round kid. I shoot from the hip, sorry that doesn't meet your criteria for a poster. Maybe if you weren't in a dreadfully tiny minority of people who were born this century and don't know how to use a website you have to refresh once in a while, this wouldn't be an issue. You sound incredibly ungrateful for not being much of a contributor. You honestly have no idea what you're talking about. A website gets 50k hits a day. On big event coverage nights - maybe 150k. But of those 150k, 90k of them are not going to find TL's portal site. Not because they aren't intelligent enough, but because they're too lazy and it's easier to just google something. But yeah, I guess I'm in that "dreadfully tiny minority" ... Keep talking down to me like you know something, kid.
Keep calling everyone kid, it makes you sound smarter and older. I swear. Anyways, the vast majority of people who are using TL already know their way around it. Unless you think that hearing about MLG being in town, local strippers all race to watch SC2.
I'm sure there's people who might be interested in your opinion. If you gave it in a way that didn't make you sound like an idiot.
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On October 15 2011 10:14 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 10:07 TortoiseCa wrote:On October 15 2011 10:03 Saechiis wrote:
You're such an awful poster, honestly, TL has done you a favor by not banning you already. It takes all sorts to make the world go 'round kid. I shoot from the hip, sorry that doesn't meet your criteria for a poster. If you really don't want to act like a jerk and come across as hostile, maybe you should try to stop pretending your offensive posting is actually a transcendent form of honesty.
My posts aren't offensive to a level headed person though?
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On October 15 2011 10:17 TortoiseCa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 10:14 Saechiis wrote:On October 15 2011 10:07 TortoiseCa wrote:On October 15 2011 10:03 Saechiis wrote:
You're such an awful poster, honestly, TL has done you a favor by not banning you already. It takes all sorts to make the world go 'round kid. I shoot from the hip, sorry that doesn't meet your criteria for a poster. If you really don't want to act like a jerk and come across as hostile, maybe you should try to stop pretending your offensive posting is actually a transcendent form of honesty. My posts aren't offensive to a level headed person though?
So everybody else who's read this thread are the hotheads, and the guy insulting a huge community he barely has a claim on for not seeing things his way is the level headed one? Jesus christ, I thought my ego was massive...
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Everybody who's responding to me like I'm the devil reincarnated are acting like children, so I'm going to use "kid" to define them. Argue my points if you disagree with me. Instead of just being angry that I'm giving constructive criticism to your favorite website. I really don't care if you like me, I'm making a point here. Do you want to dispute my point? Go for it. I may be wrong, but I don't see any logic disputing my claims.
User was temp banned for this post.
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If you fail to see your point being disputed in everybody but you being capable of navigating this website, and saying so, there's really nothing left to discuss.
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Yeah, because everybody who visits this site also frequent the feedback forums
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So you claim to be spokesperson for every person who hasn't commented in this thread by virtue of what, exactly?
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I'm claiming that common sense prevails.
Let's have a contest.
You make a website that links to TL with 2 clicks
and I'll make a website that links to TL in 1 click
Let's see who gets the most links!
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Let's have a better contest.
You keep trying to explain why anyone besides you should give a rats ass about your opinion.
I'll go have a few beers and go to sleep.
We'll see what the website looks like in the morning.
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Okay, go get drunk. Maybe when you wake up you'll have something logical to add to this discussion besides blind hatred for the dude criticizing your favorite website.
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Yeah, like a whole bunch of questions involving your credibility and attitude, and the obvious statement of fact that you seem to be in a minority?
Oh wait...
Maybe when I wake up you'll finally have thought of a comeback.
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Why do I need to be the president to point out a flaw? Why do I have to be dancing around wearing a Hawaiian t-shirt? Why am I in the minority?
Maybe when you wake up you'll read your illogical posts and agree that 1 click > 2 clicks.
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On October 15 2011 10:40 TortoiseCa wrote:
1 click > 2 clicks.
1 > 2
I'm illogical.
I think we're done here.
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Alright, if that's how you want to leave with some dignity, I'll accept that 2 is a greater number than 1. Good night.
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On October 15 2011 10:21 TortoiseCa wrote:
Everybody who's responding to me like I'm the devil reincarnated are acting like children, so I'm going to use "kid" to define them. Argue my points if you disagree with me. Instead of just being angry that I'm giving constructive criticism to your favorite website. I really don't care if you like me, I'm making a point here. Do you want to dispute my point? Go for it. I may be wrong, but I don't see any logic disputing my claims.
User was temp banned for this post.
When you get unbanned, would you mind actually responding to the objections several people put forward about how the streaming issue. For one claiming to be a voice of reason you don't seem to be that interested in discussing your reasons but rather defend the off topic comments.
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51500 Posts
that is a lot of lock down icons.
shame.
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To anyone that can still see this topic and didn't get themselves banned, there a little chaos at MLG in regards to photo coverage because of a dead phone etc, and the writers operate when the photos are available so (I think) everything kinda got halted. Should hopefully have a Day 1 writeup here soon with everything in that regard.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
Two posts on page 2 that aren't from now temp banned users, geez.
Anyway, some of your tone aside, I agree that we need to find a way to make (access to) the portals more visible. I can definitely see how a lot of (possibly more casual?) users may never not stumble upon them.
As for the tournament thing under live streams those are simply under ON AIR in the calendar section.
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On October 15 2011 10:40 TortoiseCa wrote:
Why do I need to be the president to point out a flaw? Why do I have to be dancing around wearing a Hawaiian t-shirt? Why am I in the minority?
Maybe when you wake up you'll read your illogical posts and agree that 1 click > 2 clicks.
The only thing illogical is that you're too lazy to click twice, but I understand, your finger muscles must be tired from doing all that cool stuff you do all day.
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All the rage aside, it's a good point. I don't follow this MLG, but I went to try and find MLG coverage.
That giant MLG thing on the homepage should definitely link to the MLG portal. The portal itself is awesome and TL should show it off. It's the only thing that makes sense. As for spoilers, isn't the portal spoiler-free anyway? Or if that twitter spoils results (I'm a bad fan I don't even know who is playing so I don't know what that feed is spoiling) then hide it by default.
Failing that, maybe the banner in the preview thread should link to the portal? At least I tried to click on it, since it said "teamliquid coverage". /shrug
Just some ideas. I think the portal deserves more than a text link in an article.
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The portal is not spoiler-free
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What's spoiling there? I'm guessing it must be the twitter. So like I said, hide/minimize it by default, with an 'expand' button right beside it. Or is there something else and I'm just blind
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On October 16 2011 00:26 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 10:21 TortoiseCa wrote:
Everybody who's responding to me like I'm the devil reincarnated are acting like children, so I'm going to use "kid" to define them. Argue my points if you disagree with me. Instead of just being angry that I'm giving constructive criticism to your favorite website. I really don't care if you like me, I'm making a point here. Do you want to dispute my point? Go for it. I may be wrong, but I don't see any logic disputing my claims.
User was temp banned for this post. When you get unbanned, would you mind actually responding to the objections several people put forward about how the streaming issue. For one claiming to be a voice of reason you don't seem to be that interested in discussing your reasons but rather defend the off topic comments.
Sure, problem is I just re-read this entire thread and not one person has put forth an objection to any of my points other than "you're too lazy to click more"
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United States22883 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:51 TortoiseCa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 00:26 nam nam wrote:On October 15 2011 10:21 TortoiseCa wrote:
Everybody who's responding to me like I'm the devil reincarnated are acting like children, so I'm going to use "kid" to define them. Argue my points if you disagree with me. Instead of just being angry that I'm giving constructive criticism to your favorite website. I really don't care if you like me, I'm making a point here. Do you want to dispute my point? Go for it. I may be wrong, but I don't see any logic disputing my claims.
User was temp banned for this post. When you get unbanned, would you mind actually responding to the objections several people put forward about how the streaming issue. For one claiming to be a voice of reason you don't seem to be that interested in discussing your reasons but rather defend the off topic comments. Sure, problem is I just re-read this entire thread and not one person has put forth an objection to any of my points other than "you're too lazy to click more"
Here's an objection: this was a community before it was a business.
I already quit, but if I were still a volunteer and contributor, I would not want to contribute for the benefit of you. Whatever happened to the notion of new people lurking and learning how the site works, before posting and making demands?
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On October 20 2011 08:41 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 06:51 TortoiseCa wrote:On October 16 2011 00:26 nam nam wrote:On October 15 2011 10:21 TortoiseCa wrote:
Everybody who's responding to me like I'm the devil reincarnated are acting like children, so I'm going to use "kid" to define them. Argue my points if you disagree with me. Instead of just being angry that I'm giving constructive criticism to your favorite website. I really don't care if you like me, I'm making a point here. Do you want to dispute my point? Go for it. I may be wrong, but I don't see any logic disputing my claims.
User was temp banned for this post. When you get unbanned, would you mind actually responding to the objections several people put forward about how the streaming issue. For one claiming to be a voice of reason you don't seem to be that interested in discussing your reasons but rather defend the off topic comments. Sure, problem is I just re-read this entire thread and not one person has put forth an objection to any of my points other than "you're too lazy to click more" Here's an objection: this was a community before it was a business. I already quit, but if I were still a volunteer and contributor, I would not want to contribute for the benefit of you.
Okay, let me get this straight. I log online, visit a website - notice a glaring problem. Make a post and offer suggestions to fix it out of my spare time.
Then I am bombarded with flames from people who did not even read my post, and trolled by others saying that "i'm too lazy to click more" , Called every name in the book. The entire while I ask someone to dispute any of my points or quote anything that I've said that was offensive.
Nobody can do either.
Then I'm told to dispute the "objections several people" put forth when there are none, this after I was temp banned for simply defending myself from the relentless attacks.
And now I have an ex-mod telling me that he thinks I'm a piece of trash to top things off.
I'm sure glad that I bothered posting a suggestion to this website, awesome "community" you've got going here.
Edit: And for the record I have been lurking this site since the bw days and I contribute my thoughts/ideas. I play SC2 regularly at a fairly high level. I honestly think I've been wronged in this thread and it's kind of insulting to go through this thread and think otherwise.
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United States22883 Posts
No, you made a harsh and insulting demand of a bunch of volunteers, as if you're a customer of this website. Whether your ideas have merit or not, your attitude is a bane on the forum and makes everyone appreciate the community and doing their jobs less, which is exactly part of the reason I don't moderate anymore.
You're the person that goes into the Salvation Army and demands a different winter jacket, because you're a fan of the Eagles and they gave you a Cowboys one.
Why are you focusing your main site (being the mecha of SC2 websites in NA) on outdated articles when you're spending tons of resources actually covering these events, then linking them in an obscure fashion? Reread that quote in the context of the volunteers who give up their time between class and work to write the articles and update Liquipedia and TLPD. You speak about them as if they're merely a resource that TL is wasting.
When you have a suggestion you say, "I'm having trouble with ____ and I think it could be done better by doing this _____." What you've basically said is "TL, you're fucking up. You have a responsibility to me to change it."
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That's great, but the fact is this website IS a business. And I'd like it to succeed, and therefore am offering advice.
I think a better analogy would be : I'm the person that walks into the Salvation Army and tells the workers that they could re-arrange some clothing racks to make more room for the clothes that I had just brought them.
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United States22883 Posts
On October 20 2011 09:06 TortoiseCa wrote:
That's great, but the fact is this website IS a business. And I'd like it to succeed, and therefore am offering advice.
I think a better analogy would be : I'm the person that walks into the Salvation Army and tells the workers that they could re-arrange some clothing racks to make more room for the clothes that I had just brought them. When you contribute to the community, then you can call yourself a donor. Otherwise, be polite. Your suggestion is out of your own self interest.
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On October 20 2011 09:00 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote + Why are you focusing your main site (being the mecha of SC2 websites in NA) on outdated articles when you're spending tons of resources actually covering these events, then linking them in an obscure fashion? Reread that quote in the context of the volunteers who give up their time between class and work to write the articles and update Liquipedia and TLPD. You speak about them as if they're merely a resource that TL is wasting. When you have a suggestion you say, "I'm having trouble with ____ and I think it could be done better by doing this _____." What you've basically said is "TL, you're fucking up. You have a responsibility to me to change it."
Actually, the way I read that is : You have lots of people working hard on content - why don't you link it to visitors? While also complimenting the website's status - trying to accentuate their responsibility in providing a shining example of web design.
I think you have a distorted view on things to be honest. I really don't see where you are coming from.
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United States22883 Posts
On October 20 2011 09:10 TortoiseCa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 09:00 Jibba wrote: Why are you focusing your main site (being the mecha of SC2 websites in NA) on outdated articles when you're spending tons of resources actually covering these events, then linking them in an obscure fashion? Reread that quote in the context of the volunteers who give up their time between class and work to write the articles and update Liquipedia and TLPD. You speak about them as if they're merely a resource that TL is wasting. When you have a suggestion you say, "I'm having trouble with ____ and I think it could be done better by doing this _____." What you've basically said is "TL, you're fucking up. You have a responsibility to me to change it." Actually, the way I read that is : You have lots of people working hard on content - why don't you link it to visitors? While also complimenting the website's status - trying to accentuate their responsibility in providing a shining example of web design. I think you have a distorted view on things to be honest. I really don't see where you are coming from. Read the reactions in this thread. No one has read your posts the way you seem to read them. That would seem to indicate that the problem is on your end.
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On October 20 2011 09:10 TortoiseCa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 09:00 Jibba wrote: Why are you focusing your main site (being the mecha of SC2 websites in NA) on outdated articles when you're spending tons of resources actually covering these events, then linking them in an obscure fashion? Reread that quote in the context of the volunteers who give up their time between class and work to write the articles and update Liquipedia and TLPD. You speak about them as if they're merely a resource that TL is wasting. When you have a suggestion you say, "I'm having trouble with ____ and I think it could be done better by doing this _____." What you've basically said is "TL, you're fucking up. You have a responsibility to me to change it." Actually, the way I read that is : You have lots of people working hard on content - why don't you link it to visitors? While also complimenting the website's status - trying to accentuate their responsibility in providing a shining example of web design. I think you have a distorted view on things to be honest. I really don't see where you are coming from.
He's coming from the same direction everyone else comes from.
You don't go far by your original tone and your ideas dont get considered much if that tone is a harsh one, especially given your place.
The website is always a community before a business.
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When I read the reactions, I see some people reacting to my annoyance - and others agreeing with me.
That's fine - But it was annoyance that drove me to post this thread. Happy people aren't going to post suggestions like this, only bitter IT people like me.
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To be annoyed is fine, to post annoyed often causes problems like this.
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EPT
