On May 26 2011 02:23 Bleak wrote: I have a question, I hope noone gets offended because I don't know anything about housing in US, just asking out of curiosity.
As far as I can see, those homes are really fragile, and not really build of strong concrete. So I am curious, why not build stronger homes which won't be demolished by tornadoes in an area where there are a lot of tornadoes happening every season?
The biggest problem with 'stronger' homes is that the construction costs would be significantly higher, thus not attractive to potential homeowners.
Hmm, so it is just better to make fragile homes and risk your life instead of spending some extra money? The homes look like they are made of freaking wood, how much more expensive is it to use some concrete and steel so that stuff doesn't start flying around when tornadoes appear? One doesn't have to build a skyscraper, just a two story small house similar in archithecture to the ones in the area but made of concrete and steel would be enough. Windows might be broken and stuff could fly around, but that should be easily handled by some safety measures inside the house. It is obviously better than whole thing collapsing on you.
I just don't understand...I've always thought housing as cheaper in US.
If people can't do anything because they can't afford it, then the State should do something about it. Either close off the area for living, or build strong enough homes to survive the tornadoes.
Making every building in tornado alley tornado proof isn't really feasible. A lot of the houses in the area have basements, I know we do here in Ohio. The issue is getting people to where they need to be. People will either ignore the sirens or not have their TV/radio on for the warnings so they end up in harms way. A lot of the casualties come from people out driving on the roads, trailer parks or people inside houses but close to windows/other debris.
A tornado plowing through a house won't usually kill someone in a basement, but not everyone can end up in that preferred position.
What you and most other people are saying about tornado sirens are true: we simply hear them so much that we tend to totally ignore them. Hopefully the recent storms will serve as a wake-up call.
But regarding basements, basements simply don't exist in Texas or Oklahoma. The water table is usually way too high for basements to be put in. If you're willing to dish out $3000, you can get a built-in storm shelter within your house, but if you don't, you just have to hope for the best.
I didn't know that, I guess I always took it for granted since most houses in Ohio have basements.
I live/work (I'm a meteorologist) in tornado alley and have the power to initiate the sirens here if needed (due to a cooperative agreement between the city and the installation I work on). Since I've been here (a total of 3 years) I've sounded them 0 times (note, number of tornadoes that occurred within 10 miles during that time... also 0). The local emergency operations coordinator also has the power to sound the sirens, usually he bases his decision off what the yahoo breeder-station TV meteorologist says. In the last year they have gone off at least 10 times... in none of those situations was a tornado especially likely. People here don't even bother turning the news on to see what's up anymore.
When I first got here the siren policy was impending tornado ONLY... then there was some property damage due to normal winds and they changed it. Before when the sirens went off my phones would light up with a Christmas tree. With the last sounding I got 2.
Would requiring tornado resistant construction save lives? Yes. Is it practical? No.
The best investment you can make if you live in an area prone to violent weather is a weather alert radio - in most places the sirens aren't going to wake you up at night anyway but the blaring of the radio certainly will. The newer models allow you to tailor the alerts down to a pretty small area and limit to tornado warnings only so it isn't going off all the time for surrounding counties or just severe thunderstorm warnings.
On May 26 2011 16:15 iDrone wrote: From Oklahoma, tornadoes are no joke... still weeks left in tornado season ;(
What gets me is how frequent we've been getting them this year. It is much higher than the average this year, by a lot, and the tornado that hit Joplin is considered the most damaging tornado around. Usually there are just maybe a few F5 tornadoes around each spring/summer. We've already gone past that record, and aren't even in the summer months yet. I'm worried how hectic and messy things will be by the end. With all the flooding down below, tornadoes here, insane mudslides in other parts of the world, natural disasters seem to be peaking at an all-time high, too frequent for my taste.
Here's hoping things aren't too bad by late summer.
To address the Turkish man's questions about housing, many old homes in Europe are made of stone, and new ones are made of concrete. I lived in Italy for a month in a concrete house, and every house around me was a combination of concrete, brick, and stone. A tornado could rip through that town and besides making a huge mess everything would pretty much still be standing. I assume other parts of Europe are like this too, and he's used to seeing it which is why he's so confused.
On May 27 2011 02:51 stoat wrote: The best investment you can make if you live in an area prone to violent weather is a weather alert radio - in most places the sirens aren't going to wake you up at night anyway but the blaring of the radio certainly will. The newer models allow you to tailor the alerts down to a pretty small area and limit to tornado warnings only so it isn't going off all the time for surrounding counties or just severe thunderstorm warnings.
It's not just Central US. A tornado touched down onto a mechanic's shop near my work (northeast Philadelphia)...which had some of our cars there. The roof was ripped off, a bunch of cars were totaled, and the rear shop was leveled.
It's pretty unreal what happened there... like 30% of the town or something is gone... a town of 50000+ people I think
I have many friends who's houses are completely gone with horror stories of the whole thing.
I'll spoiler a blog written by a doctor at St. Johns a hospital that got destroyed by the tornado (my mom actually works at the freeman hospital she talks about and worked that night)
My name is Dr. Kevin Kikta, and I was one of two emergency room doctors who were on duty at St. John’s Regional Medical Center in Joplin, MO on Sunday, May 22, 2011.
You never know that it will be the most important day of your life until the day is over. The day started like any other day for me: waking up, eating, going to the gym, showering, and going to my 4:00 pm ER shift. As I drove to the hospital I mentally prepared for my shift as I always do, but nothing could ever have prepared me for what was going to happen on this shift. Things were normal for the first hour and half. At approximately 5:30 pm we received a warning that a tornado had been spotted. Although I work in Joplin and went to medical school in Oklahoma, I live in New Jersey, and I have never seen or been in a tornado. I learned that a “code gray” was being called. We were to start bringing patients to safer spots within the ED and hospital.
At 5:42 pm a security guard yelled to everyone, “Take cover! We are about to get hit by a tornado!” I ran with a pregnant RN, Shilo Cook, while others scattered to various places, to the only place that I was familiar with in the hospital without windows, a small doctor’s office in the ED. Together, Shilo and I tremored and huddled under a desk. We heard a loud horrifying sound like a large locomotive ripping through the hospital. The whole hospital shook and vibrated as we heard glass shattering, light bulbs popping, walls collapsing, people screaming, the ceiling caving in above us, and water pipes breaking, showering water down on everything. We suffered this in complete darkness, unaware of anyone else’s status, worried, scared. We could feel a tight pressure in our heads as the tornado annihilated the hospital and the surrounding area. The whole process took about 45 seconds, but seemed like eternity. The hospital had just taken a direct hit from a category EF-4 tornado.
Then it was over. Just 45 seconds. 45 long seconds. We looked at each other, terrified, and thanked God that we were alive. We didn’t know, but hoped that it was safe enough to go back out to the ED, find the rest of the staff and patients, and assess our losses.
“Like a bomb went off. ” That’s the only way that I can describe what we saw next. Patients were coming into the ED in droves. It was absolute, utter chaos. They were limping, bleeding, crying, terrified, with debris and glass sticking out of them, just thankful to be alive. The floor was covered with about 3 inches of water, there was no power, not even backup generators, rendering it completely dark and eerie in the ED. The frightening aroma of methane gas leaking from the broken gas lines permeated the air; we knew, but did not dare mention aloud, what that meant. I redoubled my pace.
We had to use flashlights to direct ourselves to the crying and wounded. Where did all the flashlights come from? I’ll never know, but immediately, and thankfully, my years of training in emergency procedures kicked in. There was no power, but our mental generators were up and running, and on high test adrenaline. We had no cell phone service in the first hour, so we were not even able to call for help and backup in the ED.
I remember a patient in his early 20’s gasping for breath, telling me that he was going to die. After a quick exam, I removed the large shard of glass from his back, made the clinical diagnosis of a pneumothorax (collapsed lung) and gathered supplies from wherever I could locate them to insert a thoracostomy tube in him. He was a trooper; I’ll never forget his courage. He allowed me to do this without any local anesthetic since none could be found. With his life threatening injuries I knew he was running out of time, and it had to be done. Quickly. Imagine my relief when I heard a big rush of air, and breath sounds again; fortunately, I was able to get him transported out. I immediately moved on to the next patient, an asthmatic in status asthmaticus. We didn’t even have the option of trying a nebulizer treatment or steroids, but I was able to get him intubated using a flashlight that I held in my mouth. A small child of approximately 3-4 years of age was crying; he had a large avulsion of skin to his neck and spine. The gaping wound revealed his cervical spine and upper thoracic spine bones. I could actually count his vertebrae with my fingers. This was a child, his whole life ahead of him, suffering life threatening wounds in front of me, his eyes pleading me to help him.. We could not find any pediatric C collars in the darkness, and water from the shattered main pipes was once again showering down upon all of us. Fortunately, we were able to get him immobilized with towels, and start an IV with fluids and pain meds before shipping him out. We felt paralyzed and helpless ourselves. I didn’t even know a lot of the RN’s I was working with. They were from departments scattered all over the hospital. It didn’t matter. We worked as a team, determined to save lives. There were no specialists available -- my orthopedist was trapped in the OR. We were it, and we knew we had to get patients out of the hospital as quickly as possible. As we were shuffling them out, the fire department showed up and helped us to evacuate. Together we worked furiously, motivated by the knowledge and fear that the methane leaks could cause the hospital could blow up at any minute.
Things were no better outside of the ED. I saw a man crushed under a large SUV, still alive, begging for help; another one was dead, impaled by a street sign through his chest. Wounded people were walking, staggering, all over, dazed and shocked. All around us was chaos, reminding me of scenes in a war movie, or newsreels from bombings in Bagdad. Except this was right in front of me and it had happened in just 45 seconds. My own car was blown away. Gone. Seemingly evaporated. We searched within a half mile radius later that night, but never found the car, only the littered, crumpled remains of former cars. And a John Deere tractor that had blown in from miles away.
Tragedy has a way of revealing human goodness. As I worked, surrounded by devastation and suffering, I realized I was not alone. The people of the community of Joplin were absolutely incredible. Within minutes of the horrific event, local residents showed up in pickups and sport utility vehicles, all offering to help transport the wounded to other facilities, including Freeman, the trauma center literally across the street. Ironically, it had sustained only minimal damage and was functioning (although I’m sure overwhelmed). I carried on, grateful for the help of the community.
Within hours I estimated that over 100 EMS units showed up from various towns, counties and four different states. Considering the circumstances, their response time was miraculous. Roads were blocked with downed utility lines, smashed up cars in piles, and they still made it through.
We continued to carry patients out of the hospital on anything that we could find: sheets, stretchers, broken doors, mattresses, wheelchairs—anything that could be used as a transport mechanism.
As I finished up what I could do at St John’s, I walked with two RN’s, Shilo Cook and Julie Vandorn, to a makeshift MASH center that was being set up miles away at Memorial Hall. We walked where flourishing neighborhoods once stood, astonished to see only the disastrous remains of flattened homes, body parts, and dead people everywhere. I saw a small dog just wimpering in circles over his master who was dead, unaware that his master would not ever play with him again. At one point we tended to a young woman who just stood crying over her dead mother who was crushed by her own home. The young woman covered her mother up with a blanket and then asked all of us, “What should I do?” We had no answer for her, but silence and tears.
By this time news crews and photographers were starting to swarm around, and we were able to get a ride to Memorial Hall from another RN. The chaos was slightly more controlled at Memorial Hall. I was relieved to see many of my colleagues, doctors from every specialty, helping out. It was amazing to be able to see life again. It was also amazing to see how fast workers mobilized to set up this MASH unit under the circumstances. Supplies, food, drink, generators, exam tables, all were there—except pharmaceutical pain meds. I sutured multiple lacerations, and splinted many fractures, including some open with bone exposed, and then intubated another patient with severe COPD, slightly better controlled conditions this time, but still less than optimal.
But we really needed pain meds. I managed to go back to the St John’s with another physician, pharmacist, and a sheriff’s officer. Luckily, security let us in to a highly guarded pharmacy to bring back a garbage bucket sized supply of pain meds.
At about midnight I walked around the parking lot of St. John’s with local law enforcement officers looking for anyone who might be alive or trapped in crushed cars. They spray-painted “X”s on the fortunate vehicles that had been searched without finding anyone inside. The unfortunate vehicles wore “X’s” and sprayed-on numerals, indicating the number of dead inside, crushed in their cars, cars which now resembled flattened recycled aluminum cans the tornado had crumpled in her iron hands, an EF4 tornado, one of the worst in history, whipping through this quiet town with demonic strength. I continued back to Memorial hall into the early morning hours until my ER colleagues told me it was time for me to go home. I was completely exhausted. I had seen enough of my first tornado.
How can one describe these indescribable scenes of destruction? The next day I saw news coverage of this horrible, deadly tornado. It was excellent coverage, and Mike Bettes from the Weather Channel did a great job, but there is nothing that pictures and video can depict compared to seeing it in person. That video will play forever in my mind.
I would like to express my sincerest gratitude to everyone involved in helping during this nightmarish disaster. My fellow doctors, RN’s, techs, and all of the staff from St. John’s. I have worked at St John’s for approximately 2 years, and I have always been proud to say that I was a physician at St John’s in Joplin, MO. The smart, selfless and immediate response of the professionals and the community during this catastrophe proves to me that St John’s and the surrounding community are special. I am beyond proud.
To the members of this community, the health care workers from states away, and especially Freeman Medical Center, I commend everyone on unselfishly coming together and giving 110% the way that you all did, even in your own time of need. St John’s Regional Medical Center is gone, but her spirit and goodness lives on in each of you.
EMS, you should be proud of yourselves. You were all excellent, and did a great job despite incredible difficulties and against all odds
For all of the injured who I treated, although I do not remember your names (nor would I expect you to remember mine) I will never forget your faces. I’m glad that I was able to make a difference and help in the best way that I knew how, and hopefully give some of you a chance at rebuilding your lives again. For those whom I was not able to get to or treat, I apologize whole heartedly.
Last, but not least, thank you, and God bless you, Mercy/St John’s for providing incredible care in good times and even more so, in times of the unthinkable, and for all the training that enabled us to be a team and treat the people and save lives.
Sincerely,
Kevin J. Kikta, DO Department of Emergency Medicine Mercy/St John’s Regional Medical Center, Joplin, MO
On May 26 2011 16:15 iDrone wrote: From Oklahoma, tornadoes are no joke... still weeks left in tornado season ;(
What gets me is how frequent we've been getting them this year. It is much higher than the average this year, by a lot, and the tornado that hit Joplin is considered the most damaging tornado around. Usually there are just maybe a few F5 tornadoes around each spring/summer. We've already gone past that record, and aren't even in the summer months yet. I'm worried how hectic and messy things will be by the end. With all the flooding down below, tornadoes here, insane mudslides in other parts of the world, natural disasters seem to be peaking at an all-time high, too frequent for my taste.
Here's hoping things aren't too bad by late summer.
The explanation I've heard for the strong storm season this year is a mix of some unseasonably warm temperatures in canada that feed our weather and La Nina. I've lived in Ohio all my life, and have never seen this degree of activity here...granted we have been spared from most of the major damage.
On May 27 2011 00:03 stoat wrote: You can easily go your entire life living in tornado alley and never even see a tornado. If Joplin is like every other town I've lived in in the midwest they sound the sirens for every little thing (straightline winds, large hail, etc) and people get used to it - certainly in my current town that is the case... if we ever got a major tornado here hundreds would die. The trouble is every time there's a super cell the TV hack meteorologists hype the hell of it.
Same here. I'm from a suburb of Cincinnati, OH, and we get tornadoes rarely. There's only one time in my life that I know of when a tornado has done significant damage in the Cincinnati area. But they still sound the sirens all the time, so you just get used to them as something that accompanies bad thunderstorms or hail.
It's very much a boy-who-cried-wolf scenario with the tornado sirens...
Better safe than sorry though, innit?
True enough. The problem is that some people tend to ignore them after the initial round of warnings and end up in harms way because they think the threat has passed.
That's exactly the case. I had a couple of people I know drive INTO THE PATH OF THE TORNADO, and get hit, because the sirens sounded 20 minutes prior, and they thought since the sirens stopped, it was all clear. People don't quite understand that the siren is a warning it's coming, not a "It's here then it's not" signal.
Also, after Sunday's tornado here in Joplin, come Tuesday there was another huge storm that was coming for us capable (And was producing prior) tornadoes. People were freaking out, so they went to test the sirens in the city to be safe.......two were down due to no electricity being supplied to them. Doh! They had to bring in external generators to charge them up to be sure they worked.
People are a little on edge in this town nowadays, and rightly so.
I really feel for you guys, so glad I moved out of Joplin. Did Galena or any of the other neighboring communities get hit?
On May 27 2011 03:27 TheGiz wrote: To address the Turkish man's questions about housing, many old homes in Europe are made of stone, and new ones are made of concrete. I lived in Italy for a month in a concrete house, and every house around me was a combination of concrete, brick, and stone. A tornado could rip through that town and besides making a huge mess everything would pretty much still be standing. I assume other parts of Europe are like this too, and he's used to seeing it which is why he's so confused.
Noone in Europe builds wooden houses anymore. In the last few years there has been a little movement to build woodhouses but those are often inhabitated by hippies.
So I really dont understand why americans say that it would be too expensive to build normal stone or concrete houses when it seems to work all over europe
On May 27 2011 03:27 TheGiz wrote: To address the Turkish man's questions about housing, many old homes in Europe are made of stone, and new ones are made of concrete. I lived in Italy for a month in a concrete house, and every house around me was a combination of concrete, brick, and stone. A tornado could rip through that town and besides making a huge mess everything would pretty much still be standing. I assume other parts of Europe are like this too, and he's used to seeing it which is why he's so confused.
Noone in Europe builds wooden houses anymore. In the last few years there has been a little movement to build woodhouses but those are often inhabitated by hippies.
So I really dont understand why americans say that it would be too expensive to build normal stone or concrete houses when it seems to work all over europe
We have very very few stone or concrete houses. Maybe its because Europe has been around much longer that these type of buildings are the norm but frankly in the US you just don't see them or at least in the more rural areas where tornado damage is an issue.
That was one of the things that I enjoyed the most when I traveled abroad, it was not hard to find a building that was over 500 years old (reconditioned or not). Within reasonable driving distance from my house I might be able to find a building from 1850 if I'm lucky.
It still makes absolutely no sense to me why people bother having wooden houses in these areas. Either get a stone house or don't have a house. Its clearly not a worthwhile investment to get a wooden house in these areas...
If someone wants a house, but doesn't want a stone house, they should live elsewhere, like Oregon! ^___^
On May 27 2011 00:03 stoat wrote: You can easily go your entire life living in tornado alley and never even see a tornado. If Joplin is like every other town I've lived in in the midwest they sound the sirens for every little thing (straightline winds, large hail, etc) and people get used to it - certainly in my current town that is the case... if we ever got a major tornado here hundreds would die. The trouble is every time there's a super cell the TV hack meteorologists hype the hell of it.
Same here. I'm from a suburb of Cincinnati, OH, and we get tornadoes rarely. There's only one time in my life that I know of when a tornado has done significant damage in the Cincinnati area. But they still sound the sirens all the time, so you just get used to them as something that accompanies bad thunderstorms or hail.
It's very much a boy-who-cried-wolf scenario with the tornado sirens...
Better safe than sorry though, innit?
True enough. The problem is that some people tend to ignore them after the initial round of warnings and end up in harms way because they think the threat has passed.
That's exactly the case. I had a couple of people I know drive INTO THE PATH OF THE TORNADO, and get hit, because the sirens sounded 20 minutes prior, and they thought since the sirens stopped, it was all clear. People don't quite understand that the siren is a warning it's coming, not a "It's here then it's not" signal.
Also, after Sunday's tornado here in Joplin, come Tuesday there was another huge storm that was coming for us capable (And was producing prior) tornadoes. People were freaking out, so they went to test the sirens in the city to be safe.......two were down due to no electricity being supplied to them. Doh! They had to bring in external generators to charge them up to be sure they worked.
People are a little on edge in this town nowadays, and rightly so.
I really feel for you guys, so glad I moved out of Joplin. Did Galena or any of the other neighboring communities get hit?
I don't think so. Haven't heard anything on the news about it.
I'm lucky to not know of anyone personally that has lost their life. I know one that had his house completely removed off the face of the planet, though. Thankfully, him and his family are OK.
It's amazing how much of a problem looting is now, too! It's kind if sick to think that this could happen, and still the lowlifes of society are trying to get some free shit from peoples rubble....
On May 25 2011 10:00 Kon-Tiki wrote: I can vouch for this, the tornado sirens were just going off not 10 minutes ago here in the Dallas area. Seems to have calmed down a bit, but the light outside is still very weird
what do you mean by the lights outside?
Sky commonly turns a greenish color when tornado activity is imminent/already happening.
Not just tornadoes. It can look greenish outdoors when there is any super-intense thunderstorm activity with heavy rain. Apparently, sunlight gets refracted so heavily by the thick clouds and water droplets themselves that by the time it reaches the surface of the planet it has that greenish-tint instead of just being a dimmer version of normal sunlight that usually accompanies heavy clouds. I live in NYC, and a couple years ago we had a random, intense macroburst it's called and even though it lasted all of 15 minutes at my house, the green tint was very visible while it poured buckets. So yeah, since tornadoes are basically macrobursts x 1000, the storms that produce them can create the greenish hue.