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On October 04 2010 02:02 -fj. wrote:yeah those feminists sure are annoying trolls who have nothing important to say, and we sure are all very considerate and socially well adjusted. we even have a much bigger penis on the penis graph so we must be right. that said there is nothing but trolling in this thread so I feel bad about posting
You really honestly think that generalizing an entire forum by the posts of one member is 'something important to say?' Also perhaps you were not aware that the amount of hits was an argument of the side you are defending here. People in this thread are simply discussing its factual accuracy.
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Very bad reporting. I'm not a sexist but I assume the reporter is a feminist.
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It's amusing that all the replies in this thread are just "what bs lol stupid feminist garbage". While of course the article is exaggerated (most feminist material through history has been this way, for good reason), some of her points are completely valid. I think it's pretty sad that the first thing most people post when a girl introduces herself is "pics", for example. I don't know why that isn't as frowned upon as "first" or "l2p" around here
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You know whats funny? From the website stats she quoted TL is more gender neutral then her site, as well as having higher median and average income and racial distribution.
Another funny thing to note is that Quantum only measures U.S. statistics. This of course, is largely biased because TL.net prides itself on being an international community.
It's amusing that all the replies in this thread are just "what bs lol stupid feminist garbage". While of course the article is exaggerated (most feminist material through history has been this way, for good reason), some of her points are completely valid. I think it's pretty sad that the first thing most people post when a girl introduces herself is "pics", for example. I don't know why that isn't as frowned upon as "first" or "l2p" around here
You cannot generalize an entire forum by an individual poster. For every single comment that can be construed as sexist, you had ten that advocated a more neutral point of view.
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On October 04 2010 02:07 NevilleS wrote: It's amusing that all the replies in this thread are just "what bs lol stupid feminist garbage". While of course the article is exaggerated (most feminist material through history has been this way, for good reason), some of her points are completely valid. I think it's pretty sad that the first thing most people post when a girl introduces herself is "pics", for example. I don't know why that isn't as frowned upon as "first" or "l2p" around here
Except maybe it is, why would you comment on it though? To clutter the forum even further with uninteresting garbage? If the mods want to they'll deal with the comment, it's not up to the common user to grab a pitchfork and act up.
Plus, what ignited all this was a blog post, which most people don't even bother reading I'd assume -- I know I don't.
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United States5162 Posts
LOL, not that it matters much because their conversation ended days ago, but I attempted to post something there questioning how you can say a site with 10x as many daily hits(according to their own posted stats) can't be considered 'many times larger'. After awaiting moderation for half an hour its now gone completely.
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On October 04 2010 02:07 NevilleS wrote: It's amusing that all the replies in this thread are just "what bs lol stupid feminist garbage". While of course the article is exaggerated (most feminist material through history has been this way, for good reason), some of her points are completely valid. I think it's pretty sad that the first thing most people post when a girl introduces herself is "pics", for example. I don't know why that isn't as frowned upon as "first" or "l2p" around here Whatever validity she had in my eyes was destroyed when I saw her response to Manifesto7's post in the second thread: http://thehathorlegacy.com/teamliquid-boyz-attention-whores/#comment-98345
It's one thing for the two parties involved to hold respectable debate, but all I can see from her response is an uninformed distaste for this site's representative. She completely disregards Mani's notions and immediately takes offense at imagined slights.
The article itself is written without understanding the whole issue. That's a shame, but it's not exactly uncommon for that sort of thing to occur, especially on the Internet, where sarcasm and body language are all but invisible. For the author to wage this crusade against us with these unfounded misconceptions, condemning anyone who would dare to propose an idea that she doesn't agree with...
That's why I think she's kind of a bitch. Odds are, Ms. Kesler is a very pleasant and agreeable person in real life, but her blog-ego is just absurd.
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Yeah, its amazing that a few people troll a blog post then the whole community gets called sexual harassers.
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On October 04 2010 02:06 Forak wrote: You really honestly think that generalizing an entire forum by the posts of one member is 'something important to say?' Also perhaps you were not aware that the amount of hits was an argument of the side you are defending here. People in this thread are simply discussing its factual accuracy.
I've seen threads started by girls get derailed and get gross fast aside from the one mentioned, I mean, I don't need to believe everything she says to know there is a problem. I think that outside of staff, there is a lot of imageboard-esque culture on tl, especially when girls of any kind are involved, enough that it dominates threads once it gets started and before mods step in and start swinging.
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On October 04 2010 02:15 -fj. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 02:06 Forak wrote: You really honestly think that generalizing an entire forum by the posts of one member is 'something important to say?' Also perhaps you were not aware that the amount of hits was an argument of the side you are defending here. People in this thread are simply discussing its factual accuracy. I've seen threads started by girls get derailed and get gross fast aside from the one mentioned, I mean, I don't need to believe everything she says to know there is a problem. I think that outside of staff, there is a lot of imageboard-esque culture on tl, especially when girls of any kind are involved, enough that it dominates threads once it gets started and before mods step in and start swinging.
The biggest derailer in that thread was a female who claimed that organizations like this misrepresented women and were sexist. (Somewhere around page 2) I'm not trying to attack her position, its a valid position, but the childishness you're talking about really just limited to some initial comments in page 1.
By the time her blog was posted, the past ~5 pages of that site were basically productive without derailment. Until she decided to bastardize the thread and TL to get some page hits and boost her ego.
Really, this entire thing can be compared to the tactics of sensationalist media companies like Fox News, employing methods of selectively permitting opinions to encourage groupthink, exaggerating anecdotes to misrepresent organizations, ad-hominem argumentative tactics.
I really see no reason to seriously consider basically anything she said. They would be equally as valid if Glenn Beck decided to attack teamliquid promoting xenophilia or something. Though of course, "Pics plz" was probably not the most tact of posts and should be discouraged in the future.
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How often do you see the average user call misogyny out when it happens? It's true that they are generalizing some posters to the entire site, but it is also clear that most people on the site are rather permissive towards that sort of thing. Step it up, TL.
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I don't know if most people want to play moderators. It would also be derailing a thread in many cases, which is frowned upon. I also have a problem with the use of misogyny in these cases.. disrespectful, yes. untactful, yes. hatred? not by a long shot.
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I can't actually read the thread shes talking about, and I never did, but that's beside the point. I don't doubt that the dumb comments were just a few at first. (btw mods why is it hidden? doesn't exactly make tl look good. deal with it, don't hide it)
But I remember an introduction blog by a girl that spiraled into a really sticky and uncomfortable discussion about girls on the internet. It wasn't all "tits or gtfo" comments, it was "are you actually a girl?" "Why are you posting this? you must be an attentionwhore!". The jist of her post was "hi tl ^^", but it got blown into "hi tl I am a GIRL GIRL GIRL GIRL", partially because of culture clash and misunderstanding and partially because we couldn't just understand and let it go and post "hi ^^" back.
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On October 04 2010 02:11 Half wrote:You know whats funny? From the website stats she quoted TL is more gender neutral then her site, as well as having higher median and average income and racial distribution. Another funny thing to note is that Quantum only measures U.S. statistics. This of course, is largely biased because TL.net prides itself on being an international community. Show nested quote +It's amusing that all the replies in this thread are just "what bs lol stupid feminist garbage". While of course the article is exaggerated (most feminist material through history has been this way, for good reason), some of her points are completely valid. I think it's pretty sad that the first thing most people post when a girl introduces herself is "pics", for example. I don't know why that isn't as frowned upon as "first" or "l2p" around here You cannot generalize an entire forum by an individual poster. For every single comment that can be construed as sexist, you had ten that advocated a more neutral point of view.
Agreed. With a larger population of people there are bound to be more asses around willing to post garbage, and the mods do a good job of cleaning it up. However, I fail to see where she accused the entire forum as being sexist, just that she claimed that the forum had a significant enough presence of sexism that would make a girl feel uncomfortable (paraphrased). I think that is probably true, and is the nature of having a large site with a lot of young male gamers. There is plenty of material for sites like hers to go through and pick out the nasty bits.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
>paint entire group of gamers based on the actions of a few. Sounds vaguely famili...OH FFF
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We should just stop giving traffic to the site and ignore them. They're not going to go "you know what, you guys are right, we were wrong the entire time" because they're too blinded by their bias.
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On October 04 2010 02:32 NevilleS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2010 02:11 Half wrote:You know whats funny? From the website stats she quoted TL is more gender neutral then her site, as well as having higher median and average income and racial distribution. Another funny thing to note is that Quantum only measures U.S. statistics. This of course, is largely biased because TL.net prides itself on being an international community. It's amusing that all the replies in this thread are just "what bs lol stupid feminist garbage". While of course the article is exaggerated (most feminist material through history has been this way, for good reason), some of her points are completely valid. I think it's pretty sad that the first thing most people post when a girl introduces herself is "pics", for example. I don't know why that isn't as frowned upon as "first" or "l2p" around here You cannot generalize an entire forum by an individual poster. For every single comment that can be construed as sexist, you had ten that advocated a more neutral point of view. However, I fail to see where she accused the entire forum as being sexist, just that she claimed that the forum had a significant enough presence of sexism that would make a girl feel uncomfortable
Are you kidding me? Are we reading the same article?
Just look at that title.
TeamLiquid boyz and “attention whores”
Does that sound like calling out the actions of a select few in the community? Or does that sound like generalizing 200,000 people based on the actions of ten anecdotes, out of a thread containing 500 posts, the vast majority of which lacked sexual bias, for some personal egotistical agenda.
Personally, I think TL.net should write a public piece. Both to defend ourselves from the sensationalist crap shes spewing, and to discourage posters from posting stuff like "pics plz". Though such sexual bias represented less then 1% of the posts on the thread.
And get Jibba to do it, her sensationalist uniformed garbage with zero academic merit is frankly disgraceful. She should probably stop commenting on feminism and social myoginism, despite her profound academic knowledge in those fields. You know, acquired through a rigorous course in web design!
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Ignore them, totally, but don't ignore misogyny.
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Too bad we can't send other sites to Disneyland. I'm sure there are plenty of princesses, mice, and ducks there who'd love to accommodate Ms. Kesler and crew.
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hahahha i laughed my ass off when i read that she posted a picture of her cat and the response " LOOK she posted a pic of her pussy" priceless <3 internet how i love thy
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