The finals for this tournament was Nb.Crackling vs Morrow[MB]! Morrow won 3-2 in a very close match.
Morrow's second interview can be found here:
+ Show Spoiler +
Morrow[MB]
hello
Nightmarjoo
hey
Nightmarjoo
alrighty then
Nightmarjoo
as the winner of the first tournament, you've already had a chance to play on the maps
Nightmarjoo
since the first tournament, would you say the maps have improved?
Morrow[MB]
yes
Morrow[MB]
the last 2 weeks also
Morrow[MB]
big progress
Morrow[MB]
Nightmarjoo
that's good to hear
Nightmarjoo
what about the tournament itself
Nightmarjoo
has it gotten any better since the first day?
Morrow[MB]
welli was here
Morrow[MB]
the first 2 days
Morrow[MB]
and friday the last
Morrow[MB]
i think all 3 was good
Morrow[MB]
but i enjoyed first one most
Nightmarjoo
why is that?
Morrow[MB]
well it wasnt cuse of the maps
Morrow[MB]
it was mostly just that
Morrow[MB]):
first tournament in long time
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
ah
Nightmarjoo
so about the tournaments overall, do you think anything could be improved about them? any specific complaints you have?
Morrow[MB]
well not really
Morrow[MB]
would just be nice
Morrow[MB]
with more players
Morrow[MB]
i think the map pack is very good
Nightmarjoo
what do you think about the change in the tourney structure and mappack, that you can only pick from the featured maps until the semis, and once you get there there's only 3 additional maps to choose from?
Morrow[MB]
is that what it was now?
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
lol
Nightmarjoo
lol
Nightmarjoo
starting at the semis
Morrow[MB]
well its alittle complex
Nightmarjoo
you could also choose from tau/zodiac/othello
Morrow[MB]
personally i think it would be easier to understand
Morrow[MB]
to not split up semi with other
Morrow[MB]
niehter u have 3 prolueaue maps or no pro league maps
Morrow[MB]
during the entire including semi finals
Nightmarjoo
do you think it would be easier on everyone if you could only pick featured maps for the whole tournament?
Morrow[MB]
yes that sounds nice
Nightmarjoo
so you think then that maps are comfortable enough that players can adapt to them quickly?
Morrow[MB]
yes i think, but sound barrier
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
is pretty hard to learn
Nightmarjoo
it definitely is the least standard map in the pack
Nightmarjoo
so let's get some specific feedback on the maps, as far as balance goes, general gameplay, comfort, etc
Nightmarjoo
how about sound barrier first?
Morrow[MB]
should i mention mineral formations?
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
lol sure
Morrow[MB]
well the mineral formations overall
Morrow[MB]
are kinda bad
Morrow[MB]
scvs walk long distance etc
Nightmarjoo
you'd think those'd be the easier things to get right, eh?
Morrow[MB]
and i tried to help with supply but didnt work well
Morrow[MB]
yes shouldnt be hard
Morrow[MB]
to fix
Morrow[MB]
also the eggs in middle
Morrow[MB]
i think there should be 2 eggs only not 4
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Nightmarjoo
with 4 it gets kind of messy haha
Morrow[MB]
Morrow[MB]
the neutral buildings
Morrow[MB]
are pretty close to each other
Morrow[MB]
id like it if they were far from each other but still blocking
Morrow[MB]
somtimes when i target a building with my units to detroy it they attack the building in front
Nightmarjoo
it then would be a lot easier to destroy the wall though, there would be less wall overall
Morrow[MB]
its like trying to select a probe behind a nexus
Nightmarjoo
which might shift balance
Morrow[MB]
well the balance is harldly tried yet
Nightmarjoo
true
Nightmarjoo
what do you think so far about balance though?
Morrow[MB]
its very hard to tell
Morrow[MB]
like monty hall
Morrow[MB]
lol
Nightmarjoo
well that's better than it being obviously imbalanced
Morrow[MB]
i think it shouldnt be too imbalanced
Nightmarjoo
that's good
Morrow[MB]
ive mostly played tvz on it and i think it plays well
Morrow[MB]
didnt play pvz or tvp at all in fact
Nightmarjoo
ah
Morrow[MB]
i think it might be t>p
Nightmarjoo
why's that?
Morrow[MB]
well
Morrow[MB]
expansions overall seems kinda easy to take
Nightmarjoo
they are easily harassable though
Morrow[MB]
if u could imagine the middle was just plain terran would
Nightmarjoo
which usually helps protoss out
Morrow[MB]
be able to turtle hes exansions
Morrow[MB]
and the wall in middle favours terran i think, i mean if u removed the wall in middle map would favour terran less
Nightmarjoo
consider though, that only the corner expos are easily defended, with the 12/6 nd 3/9 expos both being fairly open
Nightmarjoo
and the expos with gas are kind of far
Nightmarjoo
while protoss can easily take a gas expo
Morrow[MB]
i think it would be more balanced in tvp if the 12 and 6 expansions wasnt tankable from the cliff behind
Nightmarjoo
hm
Nightmarjoo
that makes sense
Nightmarjoo
so, any other thoughts on sound barrier, or shall we move on?
Morrow[MB]
lets move on
Morrow[MB]
(:
Nightmarjoo
k
Nightmarjoo
how about, spinel valley?
Nightmarjoo
I know you were concerned about balance during the first tournament in this map
Morrow[MB]
well
Morrow[MB]
i think its t>z t>p z>p
Morrow[MB]
for terran it is very simple to take the expansions in start
Morrow[MB]
cuse the distance is so long and there isnt all open terrain terran can secure the wide ramps pretty simple
Morrow[MB]
i meant it was z>t not t>z
Nightmarjoo
on the other hand, the long distances and many paths allow players to easily flank and run around, and delay a terran push or something
Nightmarjoo
do you think they adequetely compensate?
Morrow[MB]
there are many expansions all over the map split at all places. the third gas is so very far away from terran
Nightmarjoo
doesn't that help pvt?
Nightmarjoo
since you're concerned it's t>p
Nightmarjoo
and in many maps, the 3rd gas is far from terran
Morrow[MB]
but
Morrow[MB]
i mean terran is far away from enemy third gas
Nightmarjoo
ah
Morrow[MB]
like in blue storm
Morrow[MB]
but in blue storm
Morrow[MB]
there is only 1 path in middle
Morrow[MB]
meanwhile this map there are many paths
Morrow[MB]
and its larger overall
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Nightmarjoo
but consider though, while the 3rd gas is far, it has a cliff directly overseeing it
Nightmarjoo (8:00 PM):
making it easy to tank or something
Nightmarjoo
and the many paths, with the map being fairly open, all help protoss
Nightmarjoo
there's actually quite a bit here which helps protoss
Nightmarjoo
and even though the 3rd gas is from terran, the next gas is not so far
Nightmarjoo
in most zvt nowadays
Nightmarjoo
I think terrans are used to zerg having 3gas
Nightmarjoo
and the 4th gas is harder to get than on another map
Nightmarjoo
where zerg might take the main/nat first, and then take the other as their 4th
Nightmarjoo
whereas the 4th is much farther away
Nightmarjoo
and isn't as easily defended
Nightmarjoo
which helps terran by making it hard on zerg
Morrow[MB]
yes u might be right
Nightmarjoo
but at the same time
Morrow[MB]
it shoulnt be t>p
Nightmarjoo
it also means zerg can run around a lot
Morrow[MB]
it is very simple for protoss to secure expansions and there are no big drop areas like in othello, protoss gets third gas simple like othello
Nightmarjoo
lol every expo is easily tankable
Morrow[MB]
the expansions in middle are tho very easy tanked from middle but also they can be storm dropped simple
Nightmarjoo
similar to othello
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Nightmarjoo
works that way in othello too
Nightmarjoo
except the expos are closer to eachother in othello
Morrow[MB]
but in othello the areas are larger
Morrow[MB]
and at 6 and 12 u can move up units simple
Nightmarjoo
I think you can run around easier in this map than in othello
Nightmarjoo
that may just be me however
Nightmarjoo
to me, othello feels kind of tight
Nightmarjoo
and spinel feels more open, to me
Nightmarjoo
so despite balance possibly being in question about the map, what do you think about its general feel?
Morrow[MB]
i think the map
Morrow[MB]
looks very cool
Morrow[MB]
decoration wise
Nightmarjoo
hehe
Morrow[MB]
also the concept is very interesting
Morrow[MB]
it feels like an improved blue storm
Nightmarjoo
improved? how so?
Morrow[MB]
this map
Morrow[MB]
many paths
Morrow[MB]
not as secure expands (middle)
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
feels like there will be
Morrow[MB]
more "war"
Morrow[MB]
and less arbiter emp war as in blue storm
Nightmarjoo
hehe
Nightmarjoo
I think the map definitely favours more of an aggressive harassing type gameplay
Nightmarjoo
far more so than in bluestorm
Nightmarjoo
can you think of any things you might change to the map?
Nightmarjoo
things to make it better balanced, more comfortable, etc
Morrow[MB]
i cant think of anything real but
Morrow[MB]
i dont understand
Morrow[MB]
at natural
Morrow[MB]
the tau cross area
Morrow[MB]
isnt droppable or is it?
Nightmarjoo
it's not
Nightmarjoo
the nat is not droppable at all
Morrow[MB]
maybe u could make it dropable
Morrow[MB]
then add a ramp behind it
Morrow[MB]
more interesting and maybe not 100% fe every game
Nightmarjoo
wouldn't that give zerg and protoss nightmares?
Nightmarjoo
imagine if there's a cliff and a ramp behind
Nightmarjoo
terran can 2rax factory zerg easily every game
Nightmarjoo
especially since the nat is already so tight
Nightmarjoo
and in general
Morrow[MB]
the distances
Morrow[MB]
are very long
Nightmarjoo
true
Morrow[MB]
zerg could concider to
Morrow[MB]
stay low on the tech vs 2rax fac
Morrow[MB]
and not mass sunken
Morrow[MB]
instead make many lings
Morrow[MB]
it shouldnt be too hard to scout 2rax fac at a map like this
Nightmarjoo
how do you think adding such a cliff and ramp would effect balance or gameplay? you mentioned it would force players to think first before FEing, I'm sure many people would rather the map kept more of a macro approach
Morrow[MB]
well
Morrow[MB]
i think its very fun
Morrow[MB]
when u can drop behind
Morrow[MB]
lurker in tau cross
Morrow[MB]
and tank goli
Morrow[MB]
at othello etc
Morrow[MB]
better than just fast expand every game
Morrow[MB]
the balance shouldnt be too effected
Nightmarjoo
at othello though, the cliff leads into the main, whereas here there isn't enough space to do so, and if you put a ramp it would have to face your opponent, which could make it difficult to stop
Morrow[MB]
yea might be true
Morrow[MB]
but i still think it misses something
Morrow[MB]
that makes it more interesting early game
Nightmarjoo
hm
Morrow[MB]
have u thought of making a troy opening
Nightmarjoo
no lol
Morrow[MB]
in middle of main cliffs?
Morrow[MB]
:DD
Nightmarjoo
lolwut
Morrow[MB]
what
Nightmarjoo
I'm not sure why or where you'd want to put that haha
Morrow[MB]
i mean
Morrow[MB]
u see the cliffs at 12
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
and then the natural
Morrow[MB]
there is like a chinese wall
Morrow[MB]
between
Morrow[MB]
in middle of that make a path with 2 assimilators
Morrow[MB]
where only small units can pass
Morrow[MB]
like blue storm
Nightmarjoo
wouldn't that give zerg a real headache zvt?
Nightmarjoo
and p in pvz
Nightmarjoo
and t in tvp
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
p in pvz yes
Morrow[MB]
t in tvp nah
Morrow[MB]
z in zvt
Morrow[MB]
i mean
Morrow[MB]
lings can kill
Morrow[MB]
them
Morrow[MB]
Morrow[MB]
ok never mind lets move on
Nightmarjoo
hehe ok
Morrow[MB]
i want funk :D
Nightmarjoo
what?
Morrow[MB]
in this map
Morrow[MB]
there is no neutral buildings
Morrow[MB]
or any gay stuff
Nightmarjoo
lol
Nightmarjoo
I think though, many players would rather it was that way haha
Nightmarjoo
so shall we move on to Dread Core?
Morrow[MB]
^^
Morrow[MB]
k
Nightmarjoo
so, what do you think about Dread Core?
Nightmarjoo
it definitely lacks
Nightmarjoo
all kinds of special features
Nightmarjoo
too
Morrow[MB]
yes
Nightmarjoo
it's more basic than spinel is
Morrow[MB]
yes
Morrow[MB]
everything is basic
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
simple
Nightmarjoo
and comfortable
Morrow[MB]
i like the map alot
Morrow[MB]
maybe just cuse i made it
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
I liked the map a lot when I played it today
Nightmarjoo
this version is much better
Nightmarjoo
than the first one
Nightmarjoo
I don't know what all you edited
Nightmarjoo
but I like it
Morrow[MB]
hehe
Morrow[MB]
i have no more comment about it
Nightmarjoo
lol
Nightmarjoo
I think that it needs some tvp testing
Nightmarjoo
I think it's probably solid zvt/zvp
Morrow[MB]
oh yes
Morrow[MB]
tvp testing
Nightmarjoo
but that if it has any imbalances
Nightmarjoo
it would be in tvp
Morrow[MB]
the distances are maybe
Morrow[MB]
really bad for protoss
Morrow[MB]
it feels like ur close ur opponent
Nightmarjoo
and the expos are easy to take, easy to defend
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
protosos must make
Morrow[MB]
many units
Morrow[MB]
before 2nd exp
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
^^
Morrow[MB]
shuttle with zea etc
Nightmarjoo
can you think of any way to help protoss out here, without messing up another matchup?
Morrow[MB]
maybe if all entire shit
Morrow[MB]
was rotated alittle making mains
Morrow[MB]
more in middle
Morrow[MB]
and nats to corner
Morrow[MB]
then distances longer
Morrow[MB]
but that is just so very much
Morrow[MB]
lol
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
and muta harass might bee hard then
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
easy vs the mains maybe
Nightmarjoo
so protoss is imbalanced
Nightmarjoo
let them figure it out
Nightmarjoo
Morrow[MB]
i just think
Morrow[MB]
protoss needs alittle different gameplay
Morrow[MB]
in mid game
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
vs terran
Morrow[MB]
than like tau cross for expand
Morrow[MB]
example
Morrow[MB]
or longinus
Nightmarjoo
tau has much longer distances however
Morrow[MB]
so long p got many units terran wont get exp neiter so easy
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
maybe if the mains had 10 mineral chunks
Morrow[MB]
like longinus
Nightmarjoo
that might hurt the other matchups though
Morrow[MB]
ye
Morrow[MB]
i just wanted something to say
Morrow[MB]
lol
Nightmarjoo
hehe
Nightmarjoo
shall we move on then?
Morrow[MB]
k
Nightmarjoo
so what do you think about Voices IV?
Nightmarjoo
it's pretty basic overall
Morrow[MB]
i do think that
Morrow[MB]
its t>p
Nightmarjoo
how so?
Morrow[MB]
the min only seems kinda simple to take
Morrow[MB]
and p could just take the gas expoes normally
Nightmarjoo
everything is easy for protoss to take though lol
Morrow[MB]
yes but its alwauys easy for p
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
i think
Morrow[MB]
it would turn out
Morrow[MB]
alittle like andromeda terran
Nightmarjoo
bad?
Nightmarjoo
Morrow[MB]
terran take both expoes very fast
Morrow[MB]
andromeda got 5 chunks
Morrow[MB]
this map got 6 at minonly
Morrow[MB]
i think it should be 5 at this map
Morrow[MB]
cuse only terran will be interested at the minonly
Nightmarjoo
hm that's a thought
Morrow[MB]
in early
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
this map very nice i think
Morrow[MB]
i remember first version
Nightmarjoo
there've been some complaints about the natural, what do you think about that?
Morrow[MB]
was so much different ^^
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
the natural is alittle bit
Morrow[MB]
different
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
fucks up the logics
Morrow[MB]
with the testbugging
Morrow[MB]
lol
Nightmarjoo
lol
Nightmarjoo
what do you mean?
Morrow[MB]
the
Morrow[MB]
visual
Morrow[MB]
sunken ground to high ground
Morrow[MB]
i never seen before
Morrow[MB]
lol
Nightmarjoo
lol
Nightmarjoo
well it's interesting in that
Morrow[MB]
it looks very nice
Morrow[MB]
Nightmarjoo
even though it looks lower
Morrow[MB]
im alittle annoyed at the ramps
Nightmarjoo
you don't get penalties to your vision
Nightmarjoo
or to your hit%
Morrow[MB]
the ramps are ugly and wide in mains
Nightmarjoo
wide?
Nightmarjoo
in the mains?
Nightmarjoo
they have normal ramps
Morrow[MB]
if u compare to python ramps
Morrow[MB]
u cant block with 1 marine at this
Morrow[MB]
vs drone for example
Nightmarjoo
I don't think you can block a drone with 1 marine at python earlier
Nightmarjoo
especially at the non inverted ramps :O
Morrow[MB]
u can
Morrow[MB]
i garanty u that
Morrow[MB]
i do it every game
Nightmarjoo
if you say so
Morrow[MB]
these r even wider than luna
Morrow[MB]
i think they might need to get modified
Nightmarjoo
they're normal sized lol
Morrow[MB]
for players to feel more comfortable
Nightmarjoo
maybe
Nightmarjoo
well, any other thoughts on voices4?
Morrow[MB]
the gasses are targetable with marines
Morrow[MB]
from outside
Morrow[MB]
i dont like that
Nightmarjoo
only in
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
some positions
Nightmarjoo
T_T
Nightmarjoo
actually
Nightmarjoo
I think only top left
Morrow[MB]
yea i think sombody gna fix that
Nightmarjoo
yeah it's just a silly bug
Nightmarjoo
easily fixed
Nightmarjoo
marines are imba
Morrow[MB]
Nightmarjoo
so anything else, or shall we move on to korhal?
Morrow[MB]
lets move to koral
Nightmarjoo
k
Nightmarjoo
so by far
Nightmarjoo
this map is the most
Nightmarjoo
macro oriented
Nightmarjoo
in the pool
Nightmarjoo
what do you think about it?
Nightmarjoo
is it comfortable?
Morrow[MB]
i think
Morrow[MB]
its cool
Morrow[MB]
only thing concirning me about that map
Morrow[MB]
is that muta harassment might be
Morrow[MB]
too strong
Morrow[MB]
vs terran
Nightmarjoo
I dunno
Nightmarjoo
you can run behind the minerals with marines or place turrets there
Morrow[MB]
also slow lord lurker drop
Nightmarjoo
and there's room behind the nat minerals too
Morrow[MB]
behind the nats etc
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Nightmarjoo
there's definitely
Nightmarjoo
a lot of harass type stuff
Morrow[MB]
it might be uncomfortable for terran with the minonly like that
Nightmarjoo
that can be done with the min only
Nightmarjoo
well
Nightmarjoo
it's easy to take
Nightmarjoo
and easy to harass
Morrow[MB]
but terran will also be able
Morrow[MB]
to drop
Nightmarjoo
just like andromeda's
Morrow[MB]
i dont like
Morrow[MB]
how the middle looks
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
looks ridicilous
Morrow[MB]
like a joke
Morrow[MB]
what does that mean
Nightmarjoo
suppesedly it's
Nightmarjoo
the korhal symbol
Nightmarjoo
:O
Nightmarjoo
like, their emblem
Nightmarjoo
or something
Nightmarjoo
._.
Nightmarjoo
you'll have to take that one out with nasty haha
Morrow[MB]
^^
Morrow[MB]
there should be
Morrow[MB]
4 more overlord spots
Morrow[MB]
i can explain where
Morrow[MB]
if u get ur mark at minonly
Morrow[MB]
then u move directly to middle
Morrow[MB]
and as soon u hit normal platform
Morrow[MB]
exactly there should be a small high platform spot for overlords
Nightmarjoo
that's not too far from the ovy spot that's already here
Morrow[MB]
it is
Morrow[MB]
when blue moves lord to red
Morrow[MB]
adding that ove spot shouldnt make too different balancing
Morrow[MB]
also it doesnt look like blues ove spot works
Nightmarjoo
it does
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
u tested?
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Morrow[MB]
rines behind
Nightmarjoo
it's same teal's
Morrow[MB]
and in front?
Nightmarjoo
pretty sure ._.
Morrow[MB]
u should test again
Morrow[MB]
^^
Nightmarjoo
hehe ok
Morrow[MB]
we could test
Morrow[MB]
when we done
Morrow[MB]
with this
Nightmarjoo
no way, I'm starving haha
Morrow[MB]
lol
Morrow[MB]
well not my map
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
yep
Nightmarjoo
I can test with a computer anyway
Nightmarjoo
at worst
Nightmarjoo
I can put a doodad on the
Nightmarjoo
the brown platform
Nightmarjoo
to block it
Nightmarjoo
if marines can reach
Nightmarjoo
or something
Morrow[MB]
no just
Nightmarjoo
an easy fix if there is a problem
Morrow[MB]
put another tile
Morrow[MB]
of high platform
Nightmarjoo
that works too
Nightmarjoo
so, any other thoughts on korhal?
Morrow[MB]
cool
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
annoying to get ling rushed tho
Nightmarjoo
well the distances are long
Morrow[MB]
since ramps r inverted
Nightmarjoo
I'm not sure but
Nightmarjoo
well
Nightmarjoo
I'm not sure if you get a penalty to vision and hit%
Morrow[MB]
i think
Nightmarjoo
from the lower ground
Nightmarjoo
to the low platform
Morrow[MB]
the enterences should be
Morrow[MB]
like troy
Morrow[MB]
that would be cool
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
you think everything should be like troy lol
Morrow[MB]
troy is interesting
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
it is
Nightmarjoo
I think sometimes
Nightmarjoo
the fact that a map isn't interesting at all
Nightmarjoo
has its merits too
Nightmarjoo
Morrow[MB]
.p
Morrow[MB]
also
Morrow[MB]
the mineral formations
Nightmarjoo
oh yeah
Morrow[MB]
MUST be fixed
Nightmarjoo
hehe
Morrow[MB]
slacky mapmaker u always see
Nightmarjoo
yeah I'll look at them
Morrow[MB]
on the mineral formations
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
well nasty isn't
Nightmarjoo
very active
Nightmarjoo
but yeah I'll look at them
Nightmarjoo
and see what I can
Nightmarjoo
do
Nightmarjoo
shouldn't be hard
Nightmarjoo
you do realize though
Nightmarjoo
that the majority of pro maps
Nightmarjoo
have bad minerals too right?
Nightmarjoo
lol
Nightmarjoo
othello and katrina mine so badly for zerg
Morrow[MB]
i am terran user
Morrow[MB]
is my defense
Morrow[MB]
^^
Nightmarjoo
hehe
Morrow[MB]
well
Morrow[MB]
katrina can go fuck her self
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
othello is good formations
Morrow[MB]
and it isnt an exuse
Nightmarjoo
othello has terrible formations lol
Morrow[MB]
these formations can be fixed
Morrow[MB]
simple
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Nightmarjoo
bluestorm can mine badly too sometimes
Nightmarjoo
at any rate
Nightmarjoo
oh
Nightmarjoo
I almost forgot to say
Nightmarjoo
overall
Nightmarjoo
you seem to be content with the maps
Nightmarjoo
aside from little things
Nightmarjoo
which can easily be fixed
Morrow[MB]
content?
Nightmarjoo
do you think the maps are good enough
Nightmarjoo
content = like happy
Morrow[MB]
like gay
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
lol
Morrow[MB]
yes im gay about the maps
Nightmarjoo
do you think the maps are good enough that they could be in bigger things?
Nightmarjoo
such as, iccup?
Morrow[MB]
well
Nightmarjoo
or even TSL2?
Morrow[MB]
not sound barrier
Nightmarjoo
why's that?
Morrow[MB]
i think it would be imba
Morrow[MB]
dunno why tho
Nightmarjoo
hm
Nightmarjoo
could be
Morrow[MB]
its just so different
Morrow[MB]
so hard to expect it to be balanced
Nightmarjoo
overall it's not that different
Nightmarjoo
if you took out the wall
Nightmarjoo
it wouldn't be too different from othello
Morrow[MB]
well i think it would favour terran
Nightmarjoo
maybe
Morrow[MB]
fewer expansionns
Morrow[MB]
zerg cant hide
Morrow[MB]
:D
Morrow[MB]
also nat > zerg third gas
Nightmarjoo
the wall helps them hide
Morrow[MB]
distance short
Morrow[MB]
yes
Nightmarjoo
the wall makes distances longer
Morrow[MB]
the wall helps
Nightmarjoo
yeah
Nightmarjoo
I dunno
Nightmarjoo
it definitely needs more testing
Morrow[MB]
i think these maps
Nightmarjoo
but I think it can work out to be fine in the end
Morrow[MB]
could be in bigger things as in iccup
Morrow[MB]
at least id like that alot
Morrow[MB]
cuse they are very enjoyable
Nightmarjoo
can you imagine
Morrow[MB]
all of the maps got different gameplay
Nightmarjoo
being in the channel
Nightmarjoo
of iccup
Nightmarjoo
typing /motw
Nightmarjoo
and seeing some of these maps there?
Nightmarjoo
would be like
Nightmarjoo
OH DAMN, NOT SPINEL VALLEY
Nightmarjoo
Nightmarjoo
or
Nightmarjoo
YES, DREAD CORE
Morrow[MB]
ye i wouldnt play spinel valley
Morrow[MB]
ye i would play dread core all the time
Nightmarjoo
and see people in the channel spamming
Nightmarjoo
1v1 C+ Voices msg
Morrow[MB]
i think dread core and voices
Morrow[MB]
would be only popoular
Nightmarjoo
I think spinel and korhal could be popular too
Nightmarjoo
they're not terribly different
Nightmarjoo
they're fairly basic
Morrow[MB]
i think newb protoss players that doesnt know how to play this game max rank c- would say khoral pride is protoss nightmare
Nightmarjoo
maybe
Nightmarjoo
the middle lets
Nightmarjoo
protoss flank and counter very easily
Nightmarjoo
and they can harass the min only or 3rd gas pretty easily
Nightmarjoo
so overall, you like the maps, and like the tournaments?
Morrow[MB]
ye
Nightmarjoo
any final thoughts about anything here?
Morrow[MB]
i would love if i could play these maps
Morrow[MB]
in iccup
Morrow[MB]
maps like andromeda ppl dont enjoy that much
Nightmarjoo
what about something like TSL2? Do you think they would play well at that level, and do you think they would entertain an audience well?
Morrow[MB]
yes
Morrow[MB]
very enjoyable to watch
Morrow[MB]
especially
Nightmarjoo
cool
Morrow[MB]
khoral pride
Morrow[MB]
i think mid games
Morrow[MB]
would look very cool
Morrow[MB]
with many units
Morrow[MB]
Nightmarjoo
hehe
Nightmarjoo
so then, unless you have any shoutouts or final comments, I think we're done here?
Morrow[MB]
beakdu and katrina sucks
Morrow[MB]
im done
Morrow[MB]
:D
Nightmarjoo
ez
Nightmarjoo
well Morrow[MB]
Nightmarjoo
thanks for coming
Nightmarjoo
thanks for the interview
Nightmarjoo
and thanks for the map
Morrow[MB]
ye np
Nightmarjoo
hope to see you in another tournament maybe, if we keep this up
Morrow[MB]
and thank u for taking dread core
Morrow[MB]
into this
Nightmarjoo
sure
Nightmarjoo
it's played pretty well
Nightmarjoo
I haven't regretted it... yet
Morrow[MB]
:D
Morrow[MB]
ok im off
Morrow[MB]
cya
Nightmarjoo
k
Nightmarjoo
later
Nightmarjoo
thanks again
Brackets
Today's tournament had only 10 people, but it also had more close and epic games. Fewer people are coming it seems, but those who are coming are adapting quickly to the maps, and we're getting some real nice games. You can check out the map threads at broodwarmaps.net to download and watch some of the uploaded replays.
I'm going to continue hosting this tournament saturday and sunday, with hopes that you people with "jobs" can show up Expect some slight edits to the maps, and also there will be a format change. To make things less complicated, I'm going to remove the non-featured maps entirely, so that the mappool will only include the five featured maps. Today no one used the other maps anyway, to my knowledge, and people seem to have little difficulty adapting to these maps, as for the most part they are fairly simple, with Sound Barrier maybe being the exception.
The mappool now contains only the 5 featured maps, which the loser will pick from in all matches. The updated mappack can be found here. The order of the maps will be: Spinel Valley III, Sound Barrier 1.3, Korhal Valley 1.3, Voices IV, Dread Core 1.1.
After Second Tourney
+ Show Spoiler +
The finals for this tournament ended up being DNA]3rdsin[ vs cA59x, ca59x is up 1-0, and the other games will be played tomorow.
There will be a few more edits to the maps by the time we host the third tournament. Namely Sound Barrier and Dread Core 1.1's modifications for today were not perfect, luckily it didn't effect any of the games. Thrice is a charm, eh? Hope to see you guys and more tomorow!
There will be a few more edits to the maps by the time we host the third tournament. Namely Sound Barrier and Dread Core 1.1's modifications for today were not perfect, luckily it didn't effect any of the games. Thrice is a charm, eh? Hope to see you guys and more tomorow!
After First Tourney
+ Show Spoiler +
Alright the first 16 man tournament has run successfully! We actually managed to get 16 players, with only two byes, and both played one game before leaving!
Congratulations to ca59x, aka Infernal, who won first place, and Morrow[MB] who was the runner up.
Tourney Bracket
Since this was the first tournament, I decided to interview both the winner and runner up, to get their feedback on the maps and the tournament itself. The following interview was actually massively cropped and edited, just to make it this short! Both players happily gave tons of feedback and discussion about the maps specifically, and the tournament itself. The full interview took THREE HOURS!
Interview
+ Show Spoiler +
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Ok then, so let's begin with some information about you as a player and a person, first off, things like your name, age, where you're from, how long you've been playing sc.
Infernal
I'm 20 years old, my name is Patrick Moller, I live in Eisingen - a small village in Germany.
Morrow[MB]
Stefan Adersson, Sweden B Team, Stockholm - Ekero, 16 years old.
Infernal
And I play sc for 10 years! But low money only 3 years and a few more months.
Nightmarjoo[BA]
lol really?
Infernal
Ya, I'm quite new school still hehe
Morrow[MB]
Played sc for maybe 50% of my life but only 1v1s for 1.5 years. Ums and vs computers ^^
Infernal
Well I was fast / bgh user before! Don't laugh, I was 3x bgh champion in the end
Nightmarjoo[BA]
So what brings you guys to a small, foreign mapping testing tournament? What makes you guys interested in random maps?
Morrow[MB]
Well I've been mapping for years, and I'd love if one of my maps was in iccup or etc. But you must give to gain: this tournament just 1 step closer to get attention.
Infernal
First off, I'm bored by mass practicing WCG maps, and as I'm kinda always curious what maps are upcoming I just decided to see into the future for a bit,
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Ah. Do you think then, that these foreign maps, or any foreign maps, have any future in sc?
Infernal
If more top foreigners actually would help with the balance - like in Korea where whole Clans do the map testing things it's definitely possible that those maps can be something good - and as far as I know ICC used plenty of your team's maps!
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Iccup currently uses 1 of our maps. er 2.
Infernal
So it's kinda all good it's just sad so few people care about it. The foreigners just seem to rely on the koreans on that... Both are fine maps just that nobody really plays em cause they don't know em
Morrow[MB]
Many Korean maps suck and aren't balanced at all, if foreign mappers just could show that their maps are normal, playable, and balanced, then sure they have a future.
Nightmarjoo[BA]
So Infernal and Morrow, both being skilled players, odds are high you'll try your luck with tsl2 no?
Infernal
Of course I will - but right now my focus is WCG Germany (next friday!)
Morrow[MB]
I'm up for any tournaments actually. But I don't think I got any chance of being close to win.
Infernal
TSL was great and hopefully TSL2 will be just as great :D
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Do you think you have the stamina to mass game [for the ladder stage]?
Morrow[MB]
Well, when I play I enjoy it so long there are good maps. If I could massgame at a map that my friend made or that I made, I could be gaming all day long, but to play some baekdu shit with mineral blocks all over map, I just lose interest after 3 losses.
Infernal
Pfffft, I've done 700 games on Icc this season. Any more questions on my stmina? :[
Nightmarjoo[BA]
lol. So what about the maps you played today, while they may not be perfect, and some are better than others, would you ever considr playing them, at such a high level event?
Morrow[MB]
Yes, all of those I was playing.
Infernal
Well, let's imagine we'd take the 2 most balanced ones (after testing a little more) and add them to the TSL map pack there's absolutely no trouble with it. However, I personally liked Morrow's map the most - Also [Voices] is very enjoyable straight up play - even though I see troubles in ZvT balance there. All maps were interesting though, so just keep improving the small things!
Editor
From here we we started a very long discussion about the maps, balance, and things to change or keep etc in them. The discussion was incredibly long, so I'll just write the conclusions made.
Dread Core
The nat should have a neutral or something to make the nat choke smaller for zvt's sake.
Overall the map has nice expo distance and positioning, which while supporting normal macro also puts you close to the enemy, making pressuring your opponents and being pressured easily, so the map isn't as turtle favouring as you might otherwise think. Morrow particularly liked how comfortable and simple the map is.
Sound Barrier 1.2
Overall both players like the map and its concept a lot, but both agreed that there should be a tight hole in the very center, which only small units can use, just for scouting's sake, to reduce the liklihood of some cheese or proxy play, and make every matchup in general less of a rock paper scissors game by making scouting so much easier. Morrow felt that the corner expos needed to have the unwalkable cliff thing between the ramps should be removed to make movement more comfortable there, and there were discussions also about making the ramp one big ramp rather than two little ramps, or making each ramp slightly larger. Morrow wanted the mains to be shrunk a little bit, thinking drop and recall was just too strong in the big mains. Infernal mentioned that the S formation could be inverted to help pathing, but was not too adamant about it, saying it might help but was not a big deal.
Voices IV
The nat entrance, the wide ramp was a little too large, making FE for protoss in pvz difficult. The mineral block to the min only should be increased from 32 to 48 so that terran can't just send a couple scvs to mine it out and then run into zerg's main. The basillica behind the nats should either be removed or increased in size, placing 4 tanks lt style would be too strong otherwise, since it would be hard to respond to them by dropping units. Alternatively, to remove it altogether since really only terran could effectively use it, causing it to be somewhat racially imbalanced. Also Morrow[MB] said, "in the middle, there is a cross, and I think that is kinda offensive to the evolution belief of how the world was created, I'd like if the mud was a circle".
Spinel Valley III
The only major concern was in responding to drops at the main, and while this could be prevented by taking the 12/6 expo as your 3rd, the nat needed, especially in top right where the comsat gets in the way, to be made larger, wider, so units could more easily enter the main to handle a drop. Infernal felt the map overall was quite balanced, in that for every feature which might shift balance one way or another, there was another feature which counter-acted this. He felt the map was very similar to Othello, "lots of harass, lots of easy accessible expos but yet hard to defend them, a macro map that favours the more agressive player".
Korhal Pride 1.2
The biggest concern here was that there are 3 mineral blocks in the main which have 500 minerals, and that there should only be 2 of them since otherwise after they run out quickly you have a 7 mineral main, which would they said help zerg too much, on top of just being annoying. That having 2 500 mineral blocks helps zerg to counter the relatively zerg-unfriendliness about the map, but that 3 was just overkill. Both players really liked Korhal, and felt that it was a very solid map. Infernal was concerned about how large the middle was however, and Morrow was insistant that the middle should have an ursadon.
Editor
The next discussion was also ridiculously long, so I will summarize it as well.
When asked about the tournament and its organization. they both felt it went smoothly, but both had concerns over the mapppool and how I had arranged it to be used. Morrow disliked having the older foreign maps, which he didn't know and didn't like, he also felt that the progamer map picks were not exactly the best picks, the most comfortable maps for players. Both players felt the pool should be slightly redone, and both felt that the tournament should have a larger emphasis on the featured maps. Morrow especially disliked "Nazca", "I just dislike how you use an old map like Nazca that clearly got balance issue and is old map; also it's offensive". He reccomended using (15)Turret M Defense instead.
Both players agreed that they thought the tournament would make more sense to have a much smaller non-featured mappool, and disallow those maps until the semi finals, so that the featured maps have a larger presence, so that every non preselected game isn't on Othello. So the bo3 loser would pick from the featured maps, while in the Semi Finals and Finals the losing players would be allowed to select from a small mappool consisting of three known maps.
At the end of the interview, Morrow asked me a question, he wanted to know what I thought of inverted ramps, the positives and negatives about them, and why they're so ugly smelly.
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Inverted ramps help tons with positional balance for the structure of a map, but since they do behave differently from normal ramps, like that they're slightly thinner and thus easier to block than normal ramps, prevents them from being perfect for positional balance. Aesthetically, they aren't perfect, but generally don't look too bad to me. If you think these perfected ramps look bad, you should see the first inverted ramps. Actually, you're better off not seeing them.
Thanks and congratulations again to Infernal for first place, and Morrow[MB] for second place in the tournament! Thanks for coming, and I hope to see you another day for the tournament again! Thanks for the interview, you guys both gave great feedback, and I appreciate giving up so much of your time for both this event and the subsequent interview!
Congratulations to ca59x, aka Infernal, who won first place, and Morrow[MB] who was the runner up.
Tourney Bracket
Since this was the first tournament, I decided to interview both the winner and runner up, to get their feedback on the maps and the tournament itself. The following interview was actually massively cropped and edited, just to make it this short! Both players happily gave tons of feedback and discussion about the maps specifically, and the tournament itself. The full interview took THREE HOURS!
Interview
+ Show Spoiler +
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Ok then, so let's begin with some information about you as a player and a person, first off, things like your name, age, where you're from, how long you've been playing sc.
Infernal
I'm 20 years old, my name is Patrick Moller, I live in Eisingen - a small village in Germany.
Morrow[MB]
Stefan Adersson, Sweden B Team, Stockholm - Ekero, 16 years old.
Infernal
And I play sc for 10 years! But low money only 3 years and a few more months.
Nightmarjoo[BA]
lol really?
Infernal
Ya, I'm quite new school still hehe
Morrow[MB]
Played sc for maybe 50% of my life but only 1v1s for 1.5 years. Ums and vs computers ^^
Infernal
Well I was fast / bgh user before! Don't laugh, I was 3x bgh champion in the end
Nightmarjoo[BA]
So what brings you guys to a small, foreign mapping testing tournament? What makes you guys interested in random maps?
Morrow[MB]
Well I've been mapping for years, and I'd love if one of my maps was in iccup or etc. But you must give to gain: this tournament just 1 step closer to get attention.
Infernal
First off, I'm bored by mass practicing WCG maps, and as I'm kinda always curious what maps are upcoming I just decided to see into the future for a bit,
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Ah. Do you think then, that these foreign maps, or any foreign maps, have any future in sc?
Infernal
If more top foreigners actually would help with the balance - like in Korea where whole Clans do the map testing things it's definitely possible that those maps can be something good - and as far as I know ICC used plenty of your team's maps!
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Iccup currently uses 1 of our maps. er 2.
Infernal
So it's kinda all good it's just sad so few people care about it. The foreigners just seem to rely on the koreans on that... Both are fine maps just that nobody really plays em cause they don't know em
Morrow[MB]
Many Korean maps suck and aren't balanced at all, if foreign mappers just could show that their maps are normal, playable, and balanced, then sure they have a future.
Nightmarjoo[BA]
So Infernal and Morrow, both being skilled players, odds are high you'll try your luck with tsl2 no?
Infernal
Of course I will - but right now my focus is WCG Germany (next friday!)
Morrow[MB]
I'm up for any tournaments actually. But I don't think I got any chance of being close to win.
Infernal
TSL was great and hopefully TSL2 will be just as great :D
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Do you think you have the stamina to mass game [for the ladder stage]?
Morrow[MB]
Well, when I play I enjoy it so long there are good maps. If I could massgame at a map that my friend made or that I made, I could be gaming all day long, but to play some baekdu shit with mineral blocks all over map, I just lose interest after 3 losses.
Infernal
Pfffft, I've done 700 games on Icc this season. Any more questions on my stmina? :[
Nightmarjoo[BA]
lol. So what about the maps you played today, while they may not be perfect, and some are better than others, would you ever considr playing them, at such a high level event?
Morrow[MB]
Yes, all of those I was playing.
Infernal
Well, let's imagine we'd take the 2 most balanced ones (after testing a little more) and add them to the TSL map pack there's absolutely no trouble with it. However, I personally liked Morrow's map the most - Also [Voices] is very enjoyable straight up play - even though I see troubles in ZvT balance there. All maps were interesting though, so just keep improving the small things!
Editor
From here we we started a very long discussion about the maps, balance, and things to change or keep etc in them. The discussion was incredibly long, so I'll just write the conclusions made.
Dread Core
The nat should have a neutral or something to make the nat choke smaller for zvt's sake.
Overall the map has nice expo distance and positioning, which while supporting normal macro also puts you close to the enemy, making pressuring your opponents and being pressured easily, so the map isn't as turtle favouring as you might otherwise think. Morrow particularly liked how comfortable and simple the map is.
Sound Barrier 1.2
Overall both players like the map and its concept a lot, but both agreed that there should be a tight hole in the very center, which only small units can use, just for scouting's sake, to reduce the liklihood of some cheese or proxy play, and make every matchup in general less of a rock paper scissors game by making scouting so much easier. Morrow felt that the corner expos needed to have the unwalkable cliff thing between the ramps should be removed to make movement more comfortable there, and there were discussions also about making the ramp one big ramp rather than two little ramps, or making each ramp slightly larger. Morrow wanted the mains to be shrunk a little bit, thinking drop and recall was just too strong in the big mains. Infernal mentioned that the S formation could be inverted to help pathing, but was not too adamant about it, saying it might help but was not a big deal.
Voices IV
The nat entrance, the wide ramp was a little too large, making FE for protoss in pvz difficult. The mineral block to the min only should be increased from 32 to 48 so that terran can't just send a couple scvs to mine it out and then run into zerg's main. The basillica behind the nats should either be removed or increased in size, placing 4 tanks lt style would be too strong otherwise, since it would be hard to respond to them by dropping units. Alternatively, to remove it altogether since really only terran could effectively use it, causing it to be somewhat racially imbalanced. Also Morrow[MB] said, "in the middle, there is a cross, and I think that is kinda offensive to the evolution belief of how the world was created, I'd like if the mud was a circle".
Spinel Valley III
The only major concern was in responding to drops at the main, and while this could be prevented by taking the 12/6 expo as your 3rd, the nat needed, especially in top right where the comsat gets in the way, to be made larger, wider, so units could more easily enter the main to handle a drop. Infernal felt the map overall was quite balanced, in that for every feature which might shift balance one way or another, there was another feature which counter-acted this. He felt the map was very similar to Othello, "lots of harass, lots of easy accessible expos but yet hard to defend them, a macro map that favours the more agressive player".
Korhal Pride 1.2
The biggest concern here was that there are 3 mineral blocks in the main which have 500 minerals, and that there should only be 2 of them since otherwise after they run out quickly you have a 7 mineral main, which would they said help zerg too much, on top of just being annoying. That having 2 500 mineral blocks helps zerg to counter the relatively zerg-unfriendliness about the map, but that 3 was just overkill. Both players really liked Korhal, and felt that it was a very solid map. Infernal was concerned about how large the middle was however, and Morrow was insistant that the middle should have an ursadon.
Editor
The next discussion was also ridiculously long, so I will summarize it as well.
When asked about the tournament and its organization. they both felt it went smoothly, but both had concerns over the mapppool and how I had arranged it to be used. Morrow disliked having the older foreign maps, which he didn't know and didn't like, he also felt that the progamer map picks were not exactly the best picks, the most comfortable maps for players. Both players felt the pool should be slightly redone, and both felt that the tournament should have a larger emphasis on the featured maps. Morrow especially disliked "Nazca", "I just dislike how you use an old map like Nazca that clearly got balance issue and is old map; also it's offensive". He reccomended using (15)Turret M Defense instead.
Both players agreed that they thought the tournament would make more sense to have a much smaller non-featured mappool, and disallow those maps until the semi finals, so that the featured maps have a larger presence, so that every non preselected game isn't on Othello. So the bo3 loser would pick from the featured maps, while in the Semi Finals and Finals the losing players would be allowed to select from a small mappool consisting of three known maps.
At the end of the interview, Morrow asked me a question, he wanted to know what I thought of inverted ramps, the positives and negatives about them, and why they're so ugly smelly.
Nightmarjoo[BA]
Inverted ramps help tons with positional balance for the structure of a map, but since they do behave differently from normal ramps, like that they're slightly thinner and thus easier to block than normal ramps, prevents them from being perfect for positional balance. Aesthetically, they aren't perfect, but generally don't look too bad to me. If you think these perfected ramps look bad, you should see the first inverted ramps. Actually, you're better off not seeing them.
Thanks and congratulations again to Infernal for first place, and Morrow[MB] for second place in the tournament! Thanks for coming, and I hope to see you another day for the tournament again! Thanks for the interview, you guys both gave great feedback, and I appreciate giving up so much of your time for both this event and the subsequent interview!
Outdated
+ Show Spoiler +
Also note: We're changing the mappool slightly, it includes the five featured maps as well as Othello, Zodiac, and Tau Cross.
It can be found here
If your mappack doesn't say BWM Tourney 1.7, you have the wrong pack.
List of changes to featured maps
+ Show Spoiler +
Sound Barrier
Shrunk mains a bit to make recall and doom drops slightly less potentially effective, increased the space of the corner expos by filling in an unwalkable isometric square, and copied the egg/mineral concept of (2)Plasma in a tight path to allow scouting to discourage "cheese", mass proxying, and to make each game less of a rock paper scissors. I finally renamed the map to 1.3.
Spinel Valley III
Modified the nat chokes so that top left was not fucked by making a comsat. With a comsat made the two positions should be approximately the same, with top left possibly having a little more room without a comsat. The lesser of two evils I'm afraid =/
Voices IV
Shrunk the wide ramps at the nat a bit.
Also (badly) replaced the copy/pasted basillica with bad copy/pasted basillica you cannot drop on.
Made the mineral block 48 minerals.
Dread Core
"fixed overlord spots, fixed mains, fixed third gasses" by Morrow
Korhal Pride 1.2
Made one mineral block 1500 which previously was 500.
Modified ovy spots.
The format of the tournament will also slightly change. The loser of the bo3 may only choose a featured map, except in the Semi Finals and Finals, where after the preselected map the loser may choose any map in the mappool, including the three korean pro maps.
This change is to put more of an emphasis on just the featured maps, while still leaving a cushion of comfortable maps for players to have once it reaches the semi finals.
Additionally, we'll be switching up the order for the featured maps. In order of appearance will be Spinel Valley III, Korhal Pride 1.3, Dread Core 1.1, Sound Barrier 1.2, and Voices IV.
The first tournament went smoothly, and overall was a success, though the length of the games could not quite be called long, resulting from a large skill gap between the players. Despite this, I definitely appreciate everyone who came. I would much rather have five short games than five automatic walkouts.
I again urge anyone and everyone who might be interested to show up, bring your friends, if there's 32 players we can do a 32 man tournament, if there are more than 16 and one of the first 16 afks we can sub in another player, and most gamers allow observer, so at worst you can watch a potentially exciting match on a interesting map.
For those who doubt in the skill level of the tournament, while it may not quite be pro-level, we did get a decent showing of skill, seen in DeA[Light] B+ gamer, Nb.Crackling and Morrow[MB], B- gamers, formerly Can-A Ryan Cheung (Dossy-Lzuruha), B+ gamer mtwAMD-Infernal, and progamer SCC-Faust.
Original post.
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok I made about this forever ago but never officially set it up, so here goes nothing!
So the plan is, that I'm going to host a 16 man tournament on monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, and friday of next week, at 3 pm EST, which if I can count is 21:00 CET in channel "op bwm" in server europe. I opted to not use iccup, because I know not everyone can access iccup, and to avoid the social aspects having a big fat letter rank on your name can have. I couldn't think of a legitimate reason to use any bnet server over any other server, so I picked europe, because it sounds the coolest.
The main purpose of the tourneys is to get games on some bwm maps, while showing TL some of our maps at the same time. In every map thread we post here, a few people here and there say they would like to play on the maps, but for the most part there just isn't any real medium through which to get people to play eachother on the maps, that's what this is for.
The featured maps will fill up the first game of each round. Each match will be bo3, with one predetermined featured map starting each round, with the loser picking any map from the given mapppool, including the featured maps. The final round will be bo5.
I have no idea how many people turn up, if 32 people turn up I can make it a 32man tourney. In case people go afk before their match, I'll allow someone in the channel who isn't afk to replace a player in the first round only, 10 minutes after they should have started their first game. Players will have the opportunity to take a 5 minute break between games and between matches, with a walkout given should a player exceed 5 minutes, if their opponent so desires. Exceptions can definitely be made if I deem it's appropriate, eg. if a player says he'll be back in 10 minutes and his opponent agrees, I have no problem with this, with all sorts of other valid scenarios.
The mappool, from which the loser of any game may choose from, is as follows:
(2)Geisterfahrer
(2)Signal
(4)Faoi IV
(4)Nazca
(4)Shine
(3)Athena
(4)Colosseum
(4)Othello
(4)Wuthering Heights
(4)Zodiac
I selected these maps to try and get both maps you might never have played for interest value, as well as maps you ought to be comfortable with by now, but which are not terribly popular or atleast overplayed at the moment.
So the plan is, that I'm going to host a 16 man tournament on monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, and friday of next week, at 3 pm EST, which if I can count is 21:00 CET in channel "op bwm" in server europe. I opted to not use iccup, because I know not everyone can access iccup, and to avoid the social aspects having a big fat letter rank on your name can have. I couldn't think of a legitimate reason to use any bnet server over any other server, so I picked europe, because it sounds the coolest.
The main purpose of the tourneys is to get games on some bwm maps, while showing TL some of our maps at the same time. In every map thread we post here, a few people here and there say they would like to play on the maps, but for the most part there just isn't any real medium through which to get people to play eachother on the maps, that's what this is for.
The featured maps will fill up the first game of each round. Each match will be bo3, with one predetermined featured map starting each round, with the loser picking any map from the given mapppool, including the featured maps. The final round will be bo5.
I have no idea how many people turn up, if 32 people turn up I can make it a 32man tourney. In case people go afk before their match, I'll allow someone in the channel who isn't afk to replace a player in the first round only, 10 minutes after they should have started their first game. Players will have the opportunity to take a 5 minute break between games and between matches, with a walkout given should a player exceed 5 minutes, if their opponent so desires. Exceptions can definitely be made if I deem it's appropriate, eg. if a player says he'll be back in 10 minutes and his opponent agrees, I have no problem with this, with all sorts of other valid scenarios.
The mappool, from which the loser of any game may choose from, is as follows:
(2)Geisterfahrer
(2)Signal
(4)Faoi IV
(4)Nazca
(4)Shine
(3)Athena
(4)Colosseum
(4)Othello
(4)Wuthering Heights
(4)Zodiac
I selected these maps to try and get both maps you might never have played for interest value, as well as maps you ought to be comfortable with by now, but which are not terribly popular or atleast overplayed at the moment.
The featured maps for the week of the 18th of August 2008 are as follows:
Sound Barrier by Flothefreak, modifications by Nightmarjoo, and original concept by RaDiX
Voices IV by Testbug, original concept by Tktkvroom, and first version by Crackling
Spinel Valley III by Testbug, original concept by Spinesheath, and first version by NastyMarine
Korhal Pride 1.3 by NastyMarine
Dread Core by Morrow
Somewhat outdated information
+ Show Spoiler +
To clarify: The first map of round 1, the ro16 if you would, is mandatorily Sound Barrier. The loser of the game on Sound Barrier is given the decision to choose which map in the mappool, including the featured maps, will be played for the second game of the bo3. Loser picks from mappool, he can repeat the same map if he wishes. The first map of the ro8 is Voices IV. The first map of the ro4 is Spinel Valley III. The first map of the Finals is Korhal Pride, and the second map is mandatorily Dread Core. For the final round, the loser of the first game does not get to choose the next map, both the first and second game of the bo5 is predetermined. The loser of the second game however can choose from any map in the mappool.
Chaos Launcher is allowable if both players have it. Observers are allowed in any game if both players agree.
While replay saving is not mandatory, bwm would greatly appreciate any and all replays possible. If there is a dispute over any game and a replay is not available, the players will have the ability to replay the game to settle the dispute. If there are no available replays, and one player refuses to replay the game, he forfeits the game. So yes, replay saving and uploading etc is not required, but it would help us the mappers out a lot, as well as keep things smooth within the tourney should any issue come up.
Chaos Launcher is allowable if both players have it. Observers are allowed in any game if both players agree.
While replay saving is not mandatory, bwm would greatly appreciate any and all replays possible. If there is a dispute over any game and a replay is not available, the players will have the ability to replay the game to settle the dispute. If there are no available replays, and one player refuses to replay the game, he forfeits the game. So yes, replay saving and uploading etc is not required, but it would help us the mappers out a lot, as well as keep things smooth within the tourney should any issue come up.
You can upload replays for Sound Barrier here
replays for Voices IV here
replays for Spinel Valley III here
replays for Korhal Pride 1.2 here
and replays for Dread Core here
Lots of tourney information
+ Show Spoiler +
All bugs or glitches are allowed, at the moment. Hacking in any shape or form is not allowed, and your game will be reversed should there be either proof or lots of rather convincing evidence suggesting that you used some form of hack in the tournament. Only the latest match will be reversed however, eg. if LeetMachine06 hacks vs Freddy2000 in the first round, but the hack is not discovered or revealed until LeetMachine06 beats pIsImbalanced in the third round, pIsImbalanced will recieve the win for the match and advance (unless he hacks too, in which case a walkover will be given to whoever would be their opponent).
Alternatively, you can email any replays to me at iuliuspwnsall@yahoo.com.
The replay uploader for every map individually is found in each map's thread, at broodwarmaps.net. It's a really simple process to upload replays, and they really do help.
The winner of the tournament aside from winning shame and immortality in this thread, will also have a personal interview, with questions potentially dealing with your opinions of the maps, your favourite map ever, your favourite progamer, the current progaming scene, starcraft2, among with whatever else I come up with by that time. The interview will appear in the front page news of bwm, as well as in an ever growing spoiler in this thread at the top, and I dunno I can post it in a thread on gg.net or scforall.com or something if it strikes your fancy.
I'm sorry the prize kind of sucks, but given that it's not the most prestegious tournament out there, I suppose not quite the most prestegious prize out there is in order. This is at the moment the best I can offer.
So you guys have a week to look over the maps, give me any suggestions on changes for the tournament before I host it, etc. Any kind of feedback is helpful. Hopefully by the end of next week, I will have hosted five of these tournaments, with Saturday and Sunday being a rest day where everything for that week is assimilated, and the maps are worked on for the next week, and sometime in the week after I will release the next set of featured maps, along with any other changes to the tournament, etc. If the turnout is high and activity remains stable, this can go on theoretically indefinitely. It's quite possible that a tourney will be delayed a weak or something if the mappers need more time to fix up the maps for you guys, or something like that.
I would like to apologize in advanced for any errors which happen, in the tourney organization, errors and bugs in the maps themselves, problems with the mappack itself, etc. All of these maps have been tested, but that doesn't mean they're perfect. It's quite possible that something silly missed our screening, something which potentially could create bad or awkward gameplay, and/or imbalanced gameplay. Not everything is apparent in basic test games or theory crafting, and you'd be surprised what you can find in a map if you have the imagination for it.
You can download the current map pack here. All featured maps have a melee version, an observer version, and a picture. Some of the non-featured maps are missing observer versions. I can make them should anyone specifically request one.
So for now, please comment on the structure of the tournament, on the map pack, on the featured maps, etc. Anything and everything can be helpful, so don't be shy. If the only thing you have to say is "I'LL BE THERE, ALL FIVE DAYS, AND YOU'LL GET FIVE INTERVIEWS FROM ME, I'M TELLING YOU NOW!", go for it! I'd love to see both enthusiasm, the promise of atleast one person showing up, and some competetive spirit. While this is intended to help out the mappers at bwm, bare in mind this is also supposed to be fun and entertaining, play your heart out on these maps, whether it be showcasing the best macro a foreign map has ever seen, exploiting some obscure map feature with an absolutely brilliant and quirky strategy, anything! Give us everything you've got!
Alternatively, you can email any replays to me at iuliuspwnsall@yahoo.com.
The replay uploader for every map individually is found in each map's thread, at broodwarmaps.net. It's a really simple process to upload replays, and they really do help.
The winner of the tournament aside from winning shame and immortality in this thread, will also have a personal interview, with questions potentially dealing with your opinions of the maps, your favourite map ever, your favourite progamer, the current progaming scene, starcraft2, among with whatever else I come up with by that time. The interview will appear in the front page news of bwm, as well as in an ever growing spoiler in this thread at the top, and I dunno I can post it in a thread on gg.net or scforall.com or something if it strikes your fancy.
I'm sorry the prize kind of sucks, but given that it's not the most prestegious tournament out there, I suppose not quite the most prestegious prize out there is in order. This is at the moment the best I can offer.
So you guys have a week to look over the maps, give me any suggestions on changes for the tournament before I host it, etc. Any kind of feedback is helpful. Hopefully by the end of next week, I will have hosted five of these tournaments, with Saturday and Sunday being a rest day where everything for that week is assimilated, and the maps are worked on for the next week, and sometime in the week after I will release the next set of featured maps, along with any other changes to the tournament, etc. If the turnout is high and activity remains stable, this can go on theoretically indefinitely. It's quite possible that a tourney will be delayed a weak or something if the mappers need more time to fix up the maps for you guys, or something like that.
I would like to apologize in advanced for any errors which happen, in the tourney organization, errors and bugs in the maps themselves, problems with the mappack itself, etc. All of these maps have been tested, but that doesn't mean they're perfect. It's quite possible that something silly missed our screening, something which potentially could create bad or awkward gameplay, and/or imbalanced gameplay. Not everything is apparent in basic test games or theory crafting, and you'd be surprised what you can find in a map if you have the imagination for it.
You can download the current map pack here. All featured maps have a melee version, an observer version, and a picture. Some of the non-featured maps are missing observer versions. I can make them should anyone specifically request one.
So for now, please comment on the structure of the tournament, on the map pack, on the featured maps, etc. Anything and everything can be helpful, so don't be shy. If the only thing you have to say is "I'LL BE THERE, ALL FIVE DAYS, AND YOU'LL GET FIVE INTERVIEWS FROM ME, I'M TELLING YOU NOW!", go for it! I'd love to see both enthusiasm, the promise of atleast one person showing up, and some competetive spirit. While this is intended to help out the mappers at bwm, bare in mind this is also supposed to be fun and entertaining, play your heart out on these maps, whether it be showcasing the best macro a foreign map has ever seen, exploiting some obscure map feature with an absolutely brilliant and quirky strategy, anything! Give us everything you've got!
All maps can be found at Broodwarmaps.net, as well as map threads for more information about the maps, and individual map download links if you don't want to download the entire pack.
This tournament and the featured maps are brought to you by Broodwarmaps.net - For all your mapping needs!