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[BWM]Map Testing Tourneys - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
August 17 2008 11:39 GMT
#21
BUMP! The tourney is coming up, any additional comments/feedback would be greatly appreciated. I think I'm going to stick with the current mappool, since no complaints have been made except over the size of it, and we have to start somewhere so I'll stick with it for now. We can use a smaller mappool in the future if it appears that would be best.

Since there has been nearly no discussion of the maps, I'd like to just throw out ideas to give players an idea of how to approach the maps, in my opinion.


Sound Barrier: This one's tricky because there's just so many viable opening options here. I think you can basically play completely standard if you want, with normal FE openings, but I reccomend not being greedy, because players could easily choose a rushing strategy and take down one of the smaller neutrals (800 hp compared to 2000 for the bigger ones). For zerg I think I would reccomend 12hatching all matchups, though I haven't personally tested the timing for all scenarios here. It's possible that a 9pool could get there in time to do damage in zvz, but otherwise I think you're as safe doing it as you are on any other map, perhaps a little safer in some scenarios.

pvt I would reccomend opening the wall as soon as possible with a goon or zlot, to start applying pressure on terran. At the same time, make sure to watch the wall carefully, because he can easily break down a section of the wall an be all over the map with vultures. Also he can float a factory over and give you hell with vultures without even breaking the wall. I think both arbiters or carriers would be quite effective here, with the wall giving carriers strength as well as the general harassability of the expos. I think that the middle is actually quite open though, and that for a frontal assault arbiters could be more effective, just depends. I think that terran might have a hard time pushing through the wall if protoss is destroying only the correct amount of neutrals (no clue what that is, it's situational) so that he can effectively move through the map and abuse his mobility, without giving terran too much room to breathe, as well as keeping it open enough that he can flank terran. The expos are very harassable, which means ht drops and tank drops will be quite effective, Othello-esque.

pvz I dunno. Both protoss and zerg have a lot of things in their favour, I'm not sure who the map favours, if anyone. A 2gate is still quite viable in my opinion. The smaller neutrals should break down slightly faster than the time it would take to kill 2 creep colonies, just keep that in mind. Protoss has a lot of freedom here, I think p can 2gate, FE, or 1gate tech and come out fine. I think protoss should still be wary of a 9pool though, as the wall won't take too long to come down.
For tvz, I think this could be rough on zerg, The nats being so easy to muta harass should help zerg a lot, but overall I think the map favours terran here. It'll be crucial to intelligently hard or break down the neutral wall here. Zerg can use holes to move around a lot to give terran a headache or to run away, but at the same time, lurkers will only be very strong with small holes in the wall, the larger the gaps are, the easier terran can move his army though. The middle is still quite open though, so zerg should be able to stall terran when necessary. Drops could be scary here though, especially with the corner gas (the 3rd base to take zvt, imo) being so far away.
Overall for protoss and terran it's important to pylon/depot hop the wall to scout. Zerg might actually be in trouble here, because even though there are many good spots for ovys, early on it will take a little while for zerg to get his ovys over, and he cannot scout everywhere on the ground with a drone, so some proxy or hidden tech play could be very effective.

tvt should be really wild on this map lol. Good luck there, I don't know tvt at all and can't give any coherent suggestions here.
pvp should be interesting, raising the question of to FE or not to FE more than ever. A 2gate will rape a real fast FE, there's a replay on an older version in the thread demonstrating this.
zvz should be interesting, I'd predict longer games than usual, because I think you can safely 12hatch expo vs anything except maybe 4pool, but I haven't tested the timing to be honest. Given a liklihood for both players to FE, this map should have more of a focus on air battles than ground battles I'd think. Sneaking expos will be fun on this map for sure hah.


Voices plays pretty standardly overall.

For tvz, mutas will definitely be strong. On the other hand, short horizontal positions can make things very hard on zerg in most scenarios, but also a pool first opening can be more effective than normal on them. Zerg needs to scout towards the nat cliff facing away from them first with their ovy. The ovy spot does not give zerg a very good view, so ling scouting will be very important, and using those middle cliff ovy spots will be very important also. In horizontal or corner positions, I would reccomend taking the middle gas expo as a 3rd, while in vertical positions you might consider taking a main or nat, with the middle expo still being quite viable. I've played a fair amount of zvt on this map, and as zerg it's rough. Besides the harassable nat, there isn't too much to help zerg here. Perhaps a 9pool opening might be prefferable to just weaken terran as much as possible, being more aggressive is probably better here because otherwise terran has some advantages and besides the nat being vulnerable to muta no real disadvantages, imo.

For pvt I think the map is mostly balanced, with horizontal positions being harder potentially on terran than normal early on, and harder on protoss later on maybe. The min onlys will be most important here I think, giving terran an easy source of safe extra minerals. At the same time, this can be used for harass stuff, with dts or just with protoss' normal army and whatnot, being able to run into the main if the min only is not properly defended, I dunno. If I remember correctly, you cannot tank the nexus of the nat from the min only. The middle is not incredibly open, so you have to carefully maneuver your army as protoss, Othello-esque. However, terran does not as easily get a foothold into the middle as in Othello imo, so it should be ok. While this map is not terribly harassable, harass should still be effective, especially as terran is forced to expo so far away from the rest of his forces for his 4th base.

zvp should be fine here. The expo spread should be good for zerg I'd think, while the min only gives protoss a good comfort zone to take him into midgame. The middle's relative tightness ish should also help protoss.

tvt could be really boring here, but I don't really know.
pvp should be fine/normal.
zvz should play out exactly like on Othello, I'd think.


Spinnel Valley 3

tvp will be interesting. There's been some concerns over tvp here, as the expos are fairly easy to grab, and every single expo is fairly easily cliffable, with the middle expos being incredibly especially and exceptionally tankable. At the same time, protoss should also be able to harass terran a lot for the most part, with the safer expos being more easily harassable, and the others being easier to flank with normal armies. While there is concern about terran tanking protoss' main, I don't think this should be too much of a trouble if protoss is doing his job of holding terran back while teching. I think teching to arbiters or carriers should probably be done sooner than usual on this map, with both carriers and recall being quite potentially effective here. I don't think protoss really has any disadvantages here, except that he might want to take the safer but farther expos before the middle ones unless he is confident he can hold terran back long enough, given how easy it is to tank the expos, Othello-esque. Terran though I'd say definitely has lots of advantages here, in the expo layout, distances and sizes, and tankability of things, among other things.

zvt is ok on the map, I've played it a fair amount. The 3rd gas is definitely the corner, and while it's kind of far, I haven't had any trouble in defending it given the tight choke. Terran gets a lot of mobility here, and the min only is pretty close, but zerg also gets a lot of freedom to be mobile and run around, running from t and harassing him, and abusing the many flank opportunities. I think Crazy Zerg can be pretty effective here given the general flankability of things here, with great lurker opportunities being somewhat limited.

I'm not sure how zvp will play out, I'm not sure if I've actually played a single zvp here :O The expo layout looks easy for protoss to take, but also easy for zerg to harass/attack at the same time. Zerg recieves imo no great benefits from taking any particular expo, which should limit zerg's strength here. Overall I think the matchup will be ok, but zerg's ability to flank and be mobile on the map might tip it z>p in the end, but I dunno.

tvt should be either really boring or really exciting, most likely the former, given the expo layout. I think the longer a tvt lasts here the more likely it is to get exciting, and the shorter it is the more likely it is to remain boring.
pvp should be fine/normal here.
zvz should be fun here, with more of a ground army emphasis I'd think given how mobile zerglings can be, with hiding expos being fun here.


Korhal Valley 1.2

In zvt I'd think crazy zerg will be incredibly effective, with the main/nat/min only all being very harassable to muta. Zerg can safely take his min only with his 3rd hatch Andromeda style. Overall I think zvt here will be similar to that of Andromeda. You can really get lost in this middle. Ling scouting will be very necessary here, with there being no possibly way to monitor what happens in the middle otherwise. You might really consider parasiting shit here, otherwise good luck finding your enemy and getting to him before he has a chance to hide elsewhere.

For pvt, this is a really strong macro map, but unit control/positioning will be really important in the middle. Terran getting lots of basically free money along with it being pretty fucking hard to move out into the middle without getting ridiculously flanked may not make for the most exciting gameplay here. Hopefully harass of the min only and nat should help counter that. Arbiters should be very useful in middle fights, with carriers being strong against all the bases I think.

I'm tempted to call this a flat-out p>z map. The lack of islands is the only thing which prevents me from doing so. The expo layout I think is very protoss friendly here, with the harassbility of the nat/min only giving protoss a lot of power here. Zerg however can do some magic with lurker harass stuff, but it's not quite the same as ht drops ~~ The really open middle does help zerg with ridiculous flanks, but at the same time it's easy I think for protoss to out-maneuver zerg here, or just run and hide into a different dark part of th emiddle, it's just hard to keep track fully of your opponent here, a thing I think helps protoss more than zerg here. On the other hand, protoss could very well have his hands full trying to prevent zerg running around the other side of the map to counter his expos.

Overall this map is a strong macro map, with a very open middle and lots of free money, something I think you guys should be well accustomed to by this point. You do have to watch your min only/nat a lot though, it can be hard to get to the min only to defend it, while you can take is easily.


Dread Core

I'm getting really sleepy, and I have not looked much into this map, so I'll be brief and general. I may look more into it later.

I'd say generally balance-wise the map'll be t>p, z>t, and a close p>z, could be z=p. I say this because of the relative tightness of the map with the relatively easy gas/money. zvp is hard, because the middle isn't that tight, and zerg has just as much expo freedom as protoss, I just have a hunch it's p>z though. Well, on the other hand the generally low harassbility of the map helps zerg here. I dunno, hard to say, but a hunch tells me this is p>z, I could definitely be wrong though. The distance to/from expos might give zerg more of a boost than I'm giving them credit for. The middle though forces imo some relatively linear pathing though, which helps make it t>p and p>z I'd think. zvt is a close call also, but I think the gas is just really easy for zerg to get. The imo linear pathing should help terran, but it's not so bad so as to hurt zerg here I'd think.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
August 17 2008 15:14 GMT
#22
lol
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
August 17 2008 20:58 GMT
#23
I should've posted this in broodwar -_-
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
August 18 2008 09:50 GMT
#24
Bump, this doesn't bode well for the potential turnout tomorow ._.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-18 18:11:19
August 18 2008 16:19 GMT
#25
Aren't a lot of people still at work at 3pm EST? Why not have the tourneys at night?
Moderator
Infundibulum
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States2552 Posts
August 18 2008 16:47 GMT
#26
i'll show up. no work today!
LoL NA: MothLite == Steam: p0nd
Carkling
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Germany169 Posts
August 18 2008 17:15 GMT
#27
i'm in for sure!
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
August 18 2008 17:18 GMT
#28
*checks time...*

sry I have a friend over till like 6pm pacific.
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
August 18 2008 18:40 GMT
#29
Well 3 pm EST I thought was a good time to allow people from Europe or America.

Alright guys, I'm online and so are a few others, let's get this party started!
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Carkling
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Germany169 Posts
August 18 2008 19:03 GMT
#30
we are allready 10 GOGOG come more :D
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
August 18 2008 19:23 GMT
#31
For all of you that didn't show up SHAME ON YOU.

We having a spam blast.
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
August 18 2008 19:26 GMT
#32
Well maybe if I wasn't AT WORK. I wanna be part of the spam blast
Moderator
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
August 18 2008 19:34 GMT
#33
Noon on a work day sucks...
You gotta host this on a weekend if you want americans who work to come
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
August 18 2008 19:46 GMT
#34
On August 19 2008 04:34 HnR)Insane wrote:
Noon on a work day sucks...
You gotta host this on a weekend if you want americans and canadians who work to come

Moderator
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
August 18 2008 19:47 GMT
#35
I got steamrolled.

STEAMROLLED.
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
Infundibulum
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States2552 Posts
August 18 2008 20:14 GMT
#36
On August 19 2008 04:47 SCC-Faust wrote:
I got steamrolled.

STEAMROLLED.

me too.

high five!
LoL NA: MothLite == Steam: p0nd
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
August 18 2008 20:24 GMT
#37
Well we still got tomorrow! :D

Hopefully I don't face a guy who has been playing SC longer than I've been able to count fingers.
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
anotak
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1537 Posts
August 18 2008 20:39 GMT
#38
i'll play a game if i can figure out how to connect to bnet on my uni's wifi (i'm at a friend's)
Carkling
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Germany169 Posts
August 18 2008 21:32 GMT
#39
awww fuck i won 2-0 2-0 than i was leeding 1-0 but he caught my ovi in the second game

and 3. game i got bunkrushed

protip: zvt on spinel valley is incredible funny with drops.
Straylight
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada706 Posts
August 18 2008 21:54 GMT
#40
Lost 1-2 in Semis.

GGs all.
It felt like gravity.
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