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I've been looking desperately for a new secret OP champion to play, nothing has really caught my eye for a while. My last two loves, Viktor and Elise, have run their course and been thrust into the spotlight and/or crushed under the nerfbat, but I feel pretty good about my spider sense for strong unorthodox picks (yes Elise was unpopular at one time).
But I've found my new baby, and hot damn it feels good.
Why does support Brand kick ass?
1. His passive does a lot of percent health damage regardless of itemization. 2. He has fat base damages. 3. His passive triggers every tic of spellthief you have on one landed spell. 4. He has a 2-second stun on a tiny CD, 3.6 second CD maxed. 5. He has 1050 range poke for 50 flat mana all game. 6. His ult is godlike in a 2v2 situation and wrecks teamfights.
I want to stress here that I'm not saying that Brand is a playable niche support, I'm saying he's a really really strong support with the capacity to carry games. If you like outputting massive CC and damage, and can land skillshots and position safely, you should try Brand support.
What Brand does: 1. Massive damage 2. Poke 3. Crazy single target peel 4. Absurd CC layering
What Brand doesn't do: 1. Escape bad situations 2. Set up picks/initiate 3. Dive the backline
HOW DO YOU PLAY BRAND SUPPORT?
Brand support is played quite differently than mid brand, beginning with your skill order.
This is going to be your standard skill order:
R>Q>E>W opening Q-E-W
Why?
Q is maxed first for three reasons.
1. It is your stun and utility, you need its CD as low as possible as it is the difference between life or death for you and your AD.
2. It costs 50 flat mana, it is the spell you can afford to cast in lane. Repeated casts of any of brands other spells will leave you with no mana far faster than they deplete your enemy's health bar. You must have its mana efficiency. As support you will not have the luxury of blue buff and extensive mana regen itemization.
E is maxed over W for a key reason. Reliability. It never misses. You absolutely NEED to be able to ignite your enemy for a stun. In league of dashes and gap closers its just far too easy to have your W dodged or miss. The absolutely reliable damage of E and as a setup for Q is invaluable. Its CD also reduces with level for more uptime on your CC.
Initially I tried W over E max, and it's an acceptable skill order, but through experimentation I believe E>W's reliability is significantly stronger with the amount of mobility in the game. I would still consider maxing W over E if the enemy teamcomp is extensively ranged. The more melee range divers they have, the stronger E max is.
MASTERIES & RUNES
Mpen Reds Hp/lvl Yellows CDR/lvl Blues Mpen Quints
New 9 util is poo, you are going to be doing a lot of damage.
ITEMIZATION
Open Spellthief and pots Sightstone because you are a support and don't forget it. Sorc boots for mobility and to benefit your passive/base damages
Morellonomicon to allow you to spam optimally, hit CDR cap, and to reduce all healing on every member of the enemy team for an ungodly length of time with your passive.
After this it depends on composition. I have favored Abyssal vs AP to prevent you from being instagibbed, provide that juicy pen, and assist your team with your aura. I also like Zhonyas for the same survivability reason, it can allow you an entire second spell rotation or enable huge turnarounds with a stun coming out of invulnerability. Many other items are fine. I build basically identical to a second AP carry, with more emphasis on survival to get another stun off over huge damage.
Why Not Liandry's Rylais first?
Pretty simply, you need the CDR and mana regen to be able to do your thing. Rylais and Lyandries are big expensive items that will lead you to a huge power dip until they are completed that you cannot afford. Fighting the first mid tower sieges and dragon fights with zero cdr and a giants belt is fucking terrible. Without Morellonomicon your stun uptime is too low, and you will end up without the mana to even execute a full combo. You will have to forgo nearly all prefight poke. Not good.
L&R are solid pickups after you have your base of morellos/sorcs/sightstone/spelltheif.
LANING
Posture aggressively and use Q fairly to poke when you have a good chance of hitting, spam more liberally the more spellthief stacks you have. Getting level two ahead of your enemy is extremely potent. Walking straight up to an enemy, Eing them, then Q will wreck a trade at level two. If you land this combo at level two the lane will be extremely in your favor.
After lvl two window you will play less aggressively poking with Q only until opportunity presents itself. A safe E is fine when you need to burn spellthief stacks.
Lvl 6 is a ludicrous powerspike. If you can bait an engage/countergank or land a stun you will devastate a 2v2 with your ultimate, play EXTREMELY aggressively. Your finishing DOT with ignite and passive is HUGE and can easily kill someone through heal, do not underestimate your raw damage.
As a basicguide: 1. Harass safely with Q constantly. 2. Allin on level advantage or low HP. 3. Never harass with W or E unless you have tons of mana and need to use spellthief stacks.
FIGHTING
Before a fight, poke constantly with Q for the %HP and nice chunk of dmg. HOLD YOUR Q IF YOU SUSPECT AN ENGAGE SHORTLY. You will need the stun.
In a teamfight stay behind your carries. E and Q stun anyone who dives onto them. Its very easy to land as they have to stay on the stuns path to attack your carry. HOLD W UNLESS IT WILL GIVE YOU A KILL. You are saving your W to allow your second Q to stun the second its off CD.
If you must, EQ quickly, most of the time its much better to make sure and line it up perfectly. Its usually far better to land the stun a half second slower than to miss it entirely.
The second you have an opportunity to ult 2+ people, take it. You need to get it off before you die, and the damage is far more important than trying to get a perfect target (unlikely). Teamfights usually begin the most clumped and then spread out as they progress. The raw damage of a bouncing ult will win your fights regardless of who its on. Ulting early will also ignite many or all of the enemies, allowing nice easy casual stuns even while holding E for later. It also applies Morellinomicon grievous wounds to the entire enemy team for 8 seconds due to you passive.
Do not be afraid to stun a diving initiator or tank. Your cd is only ~4 seconds, it will be up again for a higher priority if your team can kite even a little bit. The luxuries of playing Brand.
Lategame you will become a serious damage threat all on your own. Its still most important to peel for your carries, and to get AN ult off before dying. If you manage a decent ult and blow your QWE load you have a great chance of winning any fight because you did a retarded amount of damage.
TIPS AND TRICKS
1. Go into dragon pit and shoot a Q into tribrush at the game start. If it lands you got yourself 15 gold for free.
2. Take an extra second to line up your q's. Missing it is almost always way worse than delaying it .5 seconds.
3. Position right behind your carries to make Q easy to land on any divers or initiators.
4. To prevent chasers, W in their path, then Q for the stun. Much longer range and them must walk into W to continue pursuit.
5. Unless you are fed, its better to hold your spells and use each one to proc a Q stun. Maxed out you can chain 4+ two second stuns with 1.6 seconds between them if you space out your skill usage correctly, this will completely fuck any melee character. Fuck Taric you have 6 seconds of hard CC on a bad day.
6. Do not panic and blow skills if you get dived or caught. You need them to proc stun. Calmly walk in a direction and wait for Q CD's.
7. If you blow your load in a teamfight and are low do not stick around and auto. Run like a bitch until your CD's are back. Landing one more QW or E on an unignited gragas chasing your ass is worthless compared to another two second stun slightly later.
8. Ult a low health fleeing enemy tank or initiator, they will often run away and carry your ult into their own backline.
9. Don't ignore the fact that your ult prioritizes champions if it hits ignited enemies, try to ignite two targets before pressing R if there are minons present.
I've been having massive success with this champion so far, you provide far more hard cc than most support could dream of, and your damage is game winning. I have had the most damage dealt on the team in half of my games so far, and been a close number 2 in most others. I've played Vel'koz support quite a bit and Brand does more damage, is more reliable when played correctly, and provides MASSIVELY more peel and hard teamfight CC than he does. He's definitely tricky, requires positioning, and skillshot accuracy. But if you play him with the correct mindset these are not actually extremely difficult. He feels far far more reliable in a support role than he does in mid, as it allows him to play reactively and use his ult in lane to its full power. His stun is absurdly long and frequent compared to modern CC, and its very very easy to land it when you aren't the one being targeted.
Now go play him.
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Interesting guide. Out of curiosity, why do you think Brand support hasn't seen competitive play? We've seen Vel Koz on occasion, but I've never seen a Brand. He seems like a stronger more reliable Vel Koz in my opinion.
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On June 10 2015 09:10 Sonnington wrote: Interesting guide. Out of curiosity, why do you think Brand support hasn't seen competitive play? We've seen Vel Koz on occasion, but I've never seen a Brand. He seems like a stronger more reliable Vel Koz in my opinion.
Honestly I just think he is unexplored and pros rarely try new things. There are weakness to brand but I think that is the main reason.
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Really good guide! Unfortunately I can't play much due to suss internet at the moment, but Brand has always been one of my most played champions. I play him mainly mid, but I have played the odd support game here and there.
I like the Q max idea and it's one I never tried, but how does it fair vs traditional W max damage wise? Do you feel you are missing out? Blazed W hits like a freight train on an ADC. Do you feel getting the combo off isn't as reliable as the Q max version?
I feel like eventually you will have to get a Rylai's. Lategame your damage falls off, but you still have good peel and Rylai's makes that even better. I agree that you don't prioritise it over CDR. That said, if I'm hella fed early (not hard sometimes), first back with a Haunting Guise is brutal.
Another hard to use, but neat trick is that you can E a target while Q is in flight to get a stun. Not always practical, but it can happen and be useful.
Brand vs Vel'Koz: Vel feels a lot safer than Brand. His main source of poke is easier to hit (Geometry is useful) Also, his mana costs are lower and his Ult is more reliable. I'd consider Vel a tier above Brand in the support list.
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Played lots of support brand in s4 gold. Fully approve this guide. Highest damage in team while playing support feels really awesome. I also recommend zyra, for same reason, loads of damage with few items.
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I'm not conviced 0 armor and 0 mr with only scaling health in runes is the way to go. That forces you to play incredibly passive as you lose every fight possible early on.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On June 11 2015 00:40 Prog wrote: I'm not conviced 0 armor and 0 mr with only scaling health in runes is the way to go. That forces you to play incredibly passive as you lose every fight possible early on.
I agree with this. What happens when you meet up with an aggressive fighting lane who just runs up at you pre-6? Someone like Leona/Cait or Lucian/Braum or whatever combination that can fight at 2 - 3 with mixed AP/AD damage?
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On June 10 2015 17:36 JazzVortical wrote: Really good guide! Unfortunately I can't play much due to suss internet at the moment, but Brand has always been one of my most played champions. I play him mainly mid, but I have played the odd support game here and there.
I like the Q max idea and it's one I never tried, but how does it fair vs traditional W max damage wise? Do you feel you are missing out? Blazed W hits like a freight train on an ADC. Do you feel getting the combo off isn't as reliable as the Q max version?
In a real game Q is just far more mana efficient per point of damage done. A level three Q does 160+.65 compared to a 165+.60 for W (unignited). Each W cost 160% of a Q, it doesn't do nearly 160% damage even ignited, which probably requires using another non efficient and close range skill (E). It just cost way too much mana. With Q max you can steadily and reliably output strong poke and barely lose anything even in an allin.
I feel like eventually you will have to get a Rylai's. Lategame your damage falls off, but you still have good peel and Rylai's makes that even better. I agree that you don't prioritise it over CDR. That said, if I'm hella fed early (not hard sometimes), first back with a Haunting Guise is brutal.
I don't feel brands damage falls off at all lategame.
Brand vs Vel'Koz: Vel feels a lot safer than Brand. His main source of poke is easier to hit (Geometry is useful) Also, his mana costs are lower and his Ult is more reliable. I'd consider Vel a tier above Brand in the support list.
With Q max you are much more comparable to velkoz poke, his is a bit easier to land, but brands does more damage and 8% max hp and procs spellthief three times.
Brands ult has a lot of advantages over velkoz 1. If you get jumped on velkoz ult is worthless, brands is incredible. 2. Brand's ult works as long as two targets are within 750 range, which is basically all the time in lane.
Velkoz is great in lane (most of the time). For teamfighting I really prefer brand's ult. It's massive almost guaranteed damage. While velkoz ult can do absolutely nothing if he is CCed or jumped, and very little even if a fight is only spread a tiny bit.
Mostly though Velkoz offers one source of really really unreliable hard CC on a massive CD. He's basically a pure glass cannon damage source and nothing else. This is why he's a cheesy pseudo support AP carry. Brand has ridiculous peel and can output 6+ seconds of chained stuns in a teamfight, he's actually a real support with crazy damage.
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On June 11 2015 00:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2015 00:40 Prog wrote: I'm not conviced 0 armor and 0 mr with only scaling health in runes is the way to go. That forces you to play incredibly passive as you lose every fight possible early on. I agree with this. What happens when you meet up with an aggressive fighting lane who just runs up at you pre-6? Someone like Leona/Cait or Lucian/Braum or whatever combination that can fight at 2 - 3 with mixed AP/AD damage?
I've been able to get away with it just by virtue of your range. You don't have to trade damage with many champions, and if they posture very far forward they are extremely easy to repeatedly Q, which nobody can stand for any length of time with its cost and %hp. You stun also shuts down trades very quickly if landed.
The alternative would be to run:
Flat HP yellows: ok, they break with scaling at level six Armor: there is so much magic damage bot lane that i don't think they are great, you get hit by support poke much more than ad's.
The CDR is just so so powerful in that it allows you to hit cap with just morellos. Without it it distorts your entire build path horribly.
Mostly though I've been able to succeed with it. Brand doesn't trade damage much, he blows people up instantly, stuns them, or is out of range poking. Most times I'm caught I don't think a bit of additional armor and MR would save me. If like every pro level mid can run scaling CDR over MR in a 90% magic damage lane I feel pretty safe taking it in bot.
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On June 11 2015 04:10 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2015 00:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 11 2015 00:40 Prog wrote: I'm not conviced 0 armor and 0 mr with only scaling health in runes is the way to go. That forces you to play incredibly passive as you lose every fight possible early on. I agree with this. What happens when you meet up with an aggressive fighting lane who just runs up at you pre-6? Someone like Leona/Cait or Lucian/Braum or whatever combination that can fight at 2 - 3 with mixed AP/AD damage? I've been able to get away with it just by virtue of your range. You don't have to trade damage with many champions, and if they posture very far forward they are extremely easy to repeatedly Q, which nobody can stand for any length of time with its cost and %hp. You stun also shuts down trades very quickly if landed. The problem in those cases is that the enemy can zone your ADC from cs really easily. If you're forced to play back and just throw out the occasional Q, life isn't gonna be fun for your ADC.
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On June 11 2015 04:13 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2015 04:10 sob3k wrote:On June 11 2015 00:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On June 11 2015 00:40 Prog wrote: I'm not conviced 0 armor and 0 mr with only scaling health in runes is the way to go. That forces you to play incredibly passive as you lose every fight possible early on. I agree with this. What happens when you meet up with an aggressive fighting lane who just runs up at you pre-6? Someone like Leona/Cait or Lucian/Braum or whatever combination that can fight at 2 - 3 with mixed AP/AD damage? I've been able to get away with it just by virtue of your range. You don't have to trade damage with many champions, and if they posture very far forward they are extremely easy to repeatedly Q, which nobody can stand for any length of time with its cost and %hp. You stun also shuts down trades very quickly if landed. The problem in those cases is that the enemy can zone your ADC from cs really easily. If you're forced to play back and just throw out the occasional Q, life isn't gonna be fun for your ADC.
I haven't had this problem too bad yet in about 20 games, The threat of a stun and followup from the AD has kept people from being able to zone very effectively. The poke is also more than an occasional Q, almost anyone will be too low to stand forward after 2-3 hits. It's just pretty hard to zone an AD badly without a lead in lane, and makes you really vulnerable to ganks.
If you wanna run Flat armor and MR or AP blues go for it. I don't think its bad, I have just been winning lane without it and having a crazy mid and lategame.
EDIT: Just got my third S+ game in a row.
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Ok, now I went 1-7 but we still won
You can actually chain just Q's for stun at 40% CDR, you have to stand very close to your target to account for cast and travel time, but you can just mash Q on them and it will proc stuns every cast because the CD is 3.6s, while the burn duration is 4s.
For practical purposes this is great for taking crab, which takes increased damage while CCed.
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On June 10 2015 09:29 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 09:10 Sonnington wrote: Interesting guide. Out of curiosity, why do you think Brand support hasn't seen competitive play? We've seen Vel Koz on occasion, but I've never seen a Brand. He seems like a stronger more reliable Vel Koz in my opinion. Honestly I just think he is unexplored and pros rarely try new things. There are weakness to brand but I think that is the main reason.
I think he's a higher risk/higher reward Annie (Particularly in lane). It's just that sheer awesomeness of flash tibbers (and reliable CC) that makes people favor Annie over him.
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On June 11 2015 07:59 Ethelis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 09:29 sob3k wrote:On June 10 2015 09:10 Sonnington wrote: Interesting guide. Out of curiosity, why do you think Brand support hasn't seen competitive play? We've seen Vel Koz on occasion, but I've never seen a Brand. He seems like a stronger more reliable Vel Koz in my opinion. Honestly I just think he is unexplored and pros rarely try new things. There are weakness to brand but I think that is the main reason. I think he's a higher risk/higher reward Annie (Particularly in lane). It's just that sheer awesomeness of flash tibbers (and reliable CC) that makes people favor Annie over him.
In lane sure, but out of lane they do completely different things. Annie is an initiator/assassin, and Brand is basically Janna who shoots fire. The only thing they have in common is they both do a fuckton of damage.
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I'm so happy to see a guide espousing the value of Support Brand. Support Brand is by far my most played champ/role, with a 70% win rate up to Plat 4 and countless more games in normals. Supports just aren't meant to do this much damage. To put it in perspective, I almos talways do more champion damage than two of my 3 core carries and while poke damage makes the stat a bit misleading plenty of it is meaningful teamfight/skirmish damage. You can't always pick him and he has a steep learning curve, but I absolutely agree he's disgustingly strong, not to mention a ton of fun (I LOVE the combo playstyle). He needs very little gold to do the damage of a fully farmed AP midlaner, but he still uses gold well if he can get his hands on some.
For me his biggest weakness is setting up vision. He's squishy as a solo laner, as a supp he's paper, particularly if you build predominantly AP. Expanding the vision line (because no one else does in solo Q) is incredibly dangerous to the point where it almost feels like a dice roll if you don't have vision of the enemy jungler. Almost all other supports have a better time than Brand in this area I feel.
I max W in lane. The better mana/damage ratio of Q is a point well made, but I find W far more effective. It's too easy for players to hide behind minions when you max Q, meaning the opportunity to use your ridiculous poke is restricted, while it leaves you and your adc vulnerable as you're using your only defensive ability. Landing W is as simple as waiting for the enemy ADC to last hit. It's brutally oppressive poke that more often than not forces them away from the minion line. It also means your E > Q > W combo does more damage which is big in an all-in. While mana can be an issue pre-sightstone I just I keep a mana pot or two at all times and it feels managable. By the midgame you have a regen item and the mana costs become far less important.
I go the Liandries/Rylais route, although you very rarely get there. I find support builds to be less about getting to a goal and more about doing what you can with what you have at the time. Liandries and Rylais are expensive but have easily obtained components and if you do manage to complete them both you just melt through everything. Guise is an amazing item that doesn't break the bank and a Giant's belt is pretty fantastic on it's own. I almost never buy NLR items because I almost never go back with 1600g and I hate sitting on a ton of money as a support. Zhonya's is cool, but it isn't as vital to Brand's kit as it is to say Morgana's. My build is usually:
Spellthief Sightstone/Upg spellthief/boots Idol/Chalice (depending on amount of magic damage on the enemy team) Sorc Shoes CDR item (Morello or Grail) Guise Giant's belt (sell spellthief's somewhere in there) Finish Liandries/Rylais Void Staff (or Zhonyas)
I run MPen quints. Early game it's amazing and by the time I had Sorc shoes/Guise I'm usually be hitting someone with 30mr so I get value out of them. What's the reasoning behind AP quints?
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I've been trying rylais lyandries after morello, feels pretty good but honestly I can't tell much of a difference.
Now that I look at the numbers I do think Mpen quints are probably better. I'll switch them out.
The vision thing is annoying but not that much worse than other supports, you have to get caught by two people to die usually, one you can stun and run many times. I mean its always terrible wandering out into the unknown when you are losing and have no vision, you die a lot doing that on any support.
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On June 13 2015 04:58 sob3k wrote: I've been trying rylais lyandries after morello, feels pretty good but honestly I can't tell much of a difference.
Now that I look at the numbers I do think Mpen quints are probably better. I'll switch them out.
The vision thing is annoying but not that much worse than other supports, you have to get caught by two people to die usually, one you can stun and run many times. I mean its always terrible wandering out into the unknown when you are losing and have no vision, you die a lot doing that on any support. This is your answer on why support brand isn't played.Your runes are pretty much all the evidence that is needed to show you don't understand the support role for anyone to take this guide seriously.
Even the most yolo of supports played annie has an on demand instant undodgeable stun which makes it at least possible to escape and also offers real qualities that people want in a support not what people who don't want to play support but do so and try to play mid.
I don't think brand is that bad but is definitely inferior to the popular supports right now.
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sob3k, what is your League account name? That way I can check in what kind of games you play him etc.
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21/9's okay if you want to battle. However, that makes you much slower and if you do happen to get caught, you die instantly.
Your runes. No bueno. Scaling health/lvl as well as a lack of MR will result in you burning a flash or dying level 1/2. What's going to happen is one of 2 things:
1) Both sides walk into lane without doing gromp/krugs. They scroll over and see you have 25 armor, 30 MR and they'll immediately outshove and just zone you off the minion wave. If you go to contest, you have Q and well you're a useless sack of shit level 1. You may get some damage, but they'll hit 2 faster and if you get greedy you'll just end up blowing a summoner or instantly dying. 2) Both sides take gromp/krugs. Enemy hits 2 same time as you. You guys go all in and you either are able to dodge an enemy skillshot in which you win or you get hit by a skillshot in which you just lose.
Don't see how you win games taking Q at level 1 or going to lane with 450 HP, 25 armor, and 30 MR.
Also, you advocate poking with Q which is fine for damage and harass, but the instant they know your Q is off CD, well they can just go kill you because you're Brand and you have no escapes and you no longer have a stun. =D
Don't get me wrong, I like playing support Brand and it's mad fun to do tons of damage, but there's a reason why people max W and use that to poke instead of with Q, which is just calling for your death.
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On June 13 2015 05:21 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 04:58 sob3k wrote: I've been trying rylais lyandries after morello, feels pretty good but honestly I can't tell much of a difference.
Now that I look at the numbers I do think Mpen quints are probably better. I'll switch them out.
The vision thing is annoying but not that much worse than other supports, you have to get caught by two people to die usually, one you can stun and run many times. I mean its always terrible wandering out into the unknown when you are losing and have no vision, you die a lot doing that on any support. This is your answer on why support brand isn't played.Your runes are pretty much all the evidence that is needed to show you don't understand the support role for anyone to take this guide seriously. Even the most yolo of supports played annie has an on demand instant undodgeable stun which makes it at least possible to escape and also offers real qualities that people want in a support not what people who don't want to play support but do so and try to play mid. I don't think brand is that bad but is definitely inferior to the popular supports right now.
I totally understand the objection to the runes, If Brand was played in a competitive game he would probably be running flat HP. In my games I'm still winning lanes with scaling/CDR, so I'm going to continue to run them. As a soloque I value damage more than if I was playing more organized or even knew my AD at all.
I feel much more comfortable getting caught as Brand than Annie, your stun is longer and you can easily land it twice. Its basically impossible to miss it on someone chasing in melee range (nearly all jungles).
I want to stress that the reason I feel brand is a strong support is his stun. His damage is great but primarily his utility and peel is fantastic. You can get crushed in lane and still provide a huge amount of CC. That's why I max Q and E for reliability. I'm not trolling with mid champions, I play a lot of really supporty supports (janna with armor quints etc), and I really feel Brand offers a ton of utility.
On June 13 2015 05:52 Fildun wrote: sob3k, what is your League account name? That way I can check in what kind of games you play him etc.
My name is KKGWsob3k, I play teambuilder, so its a range of skill levels. I tanked my (hidden) ELO a bit after I got bored of Sion, but I'm climbing back up on Brand. I see diamonds again pretty frequently now but I'm under no illusions that I'm playing at top level. I'm interested to see how he'll do as I keep playing him. I just know he feels very strong to me right now.
You guys want me to play ranked for the first time in a brazillion years and see where I end up after a few weeks? I would be down for that. I'm completely unranked so it would be a good experiment. Science!
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