• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:27
CEST 07:27
KST 14:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation5$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced4Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles5[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
i aint gon lie to u bruh... ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Earn Rewards for Every Prediction in the Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 600 users

Brand Support - Page 3

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
June 18 2015 06:00 GMT
#41
But you can't just wait around as Draven. Brand's W is too strong. If he tries to sit and catch axes all day waiting for you to overextend you just keep landing easy W's and force him away.

Waiting for the Brand to get over-aggressive just sounds like waiting for the Brand to misplay because that's not what Brand should do in that lane. In fact I'd say Brand rarely wants to get overly aggressive/force things, you generally want to poke/zone and do more damage in an all-in. You're essentially saying a good bot lane beats a misplaying Brand.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
North2
Profile Joined January 2011
134 Posts
June 18 2015 08:35 GMT
#42
I don't really see why Draven can't just wait. Draven lifesteals a ton after his first buy.

I'd really have to see it, but we're certainly never going to willingly put Brand support into a Draven lane.
www.twitch.tv/rnorth2
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
October 06 2015 00:07 GMT
#43
So we finally saw out first Brand support in competitive (at least I think it was the first one). What do we think of PyL's build/performance? LGD played pretty poorly but it's hard to attribute that to the pick itself.

Personally, I didn't like the Mobi boots. Yeah they're cheaper and map mobility is huge in competitive but Sorcs are such an incredible buy that I would have made an exception here, particularly given how much HP there were on 4 of TSM's 5 members and how MR heavy they ended up building. They didn't lose those teamfights by much, a bit more damage would have been massive.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 06 2015 00:36 GMT
#44
For reference, Pyl's build
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-06 01:46:06
October 06 2015 01:42 GMT
#45
damn, first competitive brand and they lose. If he had won expect it everywhere, now nobody will touch it for a year.

Unimpressed with the fact that he still ran standard AP Quints when magic pen is mathematically superior.

Also do not support no CDR, brand is not oppressive without his incredibly short cd stun.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
October 06 2015 02:25 GMT
#46
They wanted the uber slow from Rylai's. They wanted to be able to kite the low range/mobility team long enough for Kallista's damage to build up. It almost worked. If Imp respected Morde's melee damage in that last fight they would have won it.

My problem with the build was that he went Mobis > NLR. I know they wanted the slow but in a game like that he wasn't going to get to Rylai's in any reasonable time. He could have gotten Sorcs > Idol and had more impact for less gold or skipped the Mobi's to rush the Rylai's if it was that critical.

He maxed W btw.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 06 2015 14:41 GMT
#47
Pyl played it pretty awfully, like you said he really should have taken mpen-- I personally prefer 1 movespeed + 2 mpen. Better choice for first item would either be Zeke's or Luden's. Zeke's is easy pieces and you get some CDR with it-- while not particularly effective with Kalista, it's a great mini d-cap for Brand and can be swapped to Diana midgame. Luden's gives you some movespeed, and I like the Luden's + Sorc's combo which gives enough movespeed (then add in runes and masteries) and more squishy popping power.

Brief thoughts on lane:
-Pyl didn't do nearly enough damage, honestly Morde shouldn't even be able to get close to minions
-You can afford to pot up pretty hard cuz of a ton of extra gold from spellthief's
-Early glacial for Zeke's -> more spamming
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
October 07 2015 07:27 GMT
#48
I think the theory was really, really good. Rylai's Brand is a peeling god vs champs with no dashes like Morde. Coupled with Kalista, LGD should have had an untouchable ADC every fight. It's a shame LGD ran it, because they are derping hardcore.

They screwed up in practice. I fully agree with the Sorcs instead of Mobis. I get it, you are a support. You want the extra speed to ward. But you are also Brand, who has high base damage and a non AP scaling damage passive. Mpen is god like on him. I actually didn't mind the idea of Rylai's first, provided the lane went as anticipated. Brand should've dominated that lane, but Pyl got hooked early and never really got the ascendancy. He shouldn't have forged ahead with Rylai's first when they weren't ahead.

I hate the idea that this might mean it isn't picked again, because it has merit.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-07 14:40:15
October 07 2015 14:37 GMT
#49
I would lean more towards "if your strategy to stop Morde revolves around having an item-based slow on your support you're gonna have a bad time". LGD had a ton of slow already with Glitterlance, Tramsogrify, Snowball and Absolute Zero. Given Morde is very much a priority target, I don't really see a problem with burning some CC/damage on him from other positions.

Crystal Scepter is nice from top or possibly mid as an early item as a mix of survivability and AP, but it's risky with support's income-- doing a very rough estimate, Pyl got 8.6K/35 mins, which means an income of 245 gold (we can assume that it was lower during laning phase and was inflated by teamfight assists and global tower gold) meaning it takes 12 minutes (as a low estimate) to build it. Oh, and Pytl dicks around and builds a sightstone, mobis and buys wards before, so he is literally useless as anything but a wardbot until he gets his NLR at 20 minutes... at which point his team is down 6K and then his Rylai's at 25 minutes... at which his team is down 9K. Yeah.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 07 2015 17:00 GMT
#50
I think Support Brand is an improvement on Support Kennen. It's all about CC, all the way down to the Rylai's rush for both champions. The reason why I think Brand is actually better is because he's not entirely ulti dependent to get into team fights and his stun isn't reliant on the three tick system Kennen's is. Sure Kennen can possibly hard CC the entire enemy team while Brand can only target one but I think Brand's kit is a bit more flexible based on his QWE skills.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-07 21:11:03
October 07 2015 21:09 GMT
#51
I agree that picking Support Brand on the basis that he is amazing with a 3k item is risky at best. It even showed in game, with Pyl only picking up Rylais after LGD getting that good fight at baron catapulted him into a chunk of money.

I've said it before, I'd prefer teams look to Support Brand when they're low on magic damage late in the draft, are planning playing standard lanes, are facing a team with low levels of dive, don't need initiation from the support or some combination of the above.

I found it funny that people made a big deal of Brand doing more damage than Mord. Brands damage was actually pretty low, understandable given everyone on TSM built multiple MR items and he didn't have Mpen till the last fight. If they actually knew what the pick was capable of they'd be commenting on how low Pyls damage was.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 08 2015 03:23 GMT
#52
I was gonna write some commentary on the LGD TSM game, but LGD was just bad. It looks like a silver duo botlane trying really hard to look like pros by doing rotations and stuff vs a plat duo
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-08 05:33:56
October 08 2015 05:33 GMT
#53
Figured this is relevant



https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
October 08 2015 09:02 GMT
#54
No Velkoz?
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 08 2015 16:02 GMT
#55
On October 08 2015 14:33 Sufficiency wrote:
Figured this is relevant



https://twitter.com/SufficientStats/status/651604465703878656


I bet I contributed pretty heavily to that, lol.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 08 2015 17:18 GMT
#56
Zyra Brand, hue.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-08 22:25:56
October 08 2015 22:21 GMT
#57
On October 08 2015 18:02 Amarok wrote:
No Velkoz?


Ops.

I think I set my sample size threahold too high (3 k games) - so Velkoz got filtered out.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 08 2015 22:28 GMT
#58
I guess that means cheese picks like Lee or Lux didn't make the cut either-- you have the ability to filter champ games by positions?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 09 2015 16:23 GMT
#59
On October 09 2015 07:28 ticklishmusic wrote:
I guess that means cheese picks like Lee or Lux didn't make the cut either-- you have the ability to filter champ games by positions?

Basically, Riot has a way of identifying the positions. I just piggyback off their data.

And no, since there are 3k+ games per champion, you probably did not contribute that nuch
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 33m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft596
Nina 211
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 343
PianO 197
Noble 33
Icarus 12
Dota 2
XaKoH 100
League of Legends
JimRising 765
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K296
Other Games
summit1g7171
shahzam835
monkeys_forever498
ViBE213
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick44149
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH309
• practicex 111
• Hupsaiya 61
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1060
• Lourlo690
• masondota2445
• Stunt330
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
4h 33m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
10h 33m
WardiTV European League
10h 33m
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
18h 33m
RSL Revival
1d 4h
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
FEL
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.