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http://www.npr.org/2013/02/06/171257465/irish-government-confined-young-women-in-workhouses
Ireland has expressed regret that thousands of women and young girls held in workhouses run by Catholic nuns were stigmatized by the label "fallen women." But Prime Minister Enda Kenny did not apologize for the state's involvement in decades of harsh treatment for women held in 10 Magdalene Laundries. He was reacting to a report that concluded the government oversaw the workhouses.
So what do you think about the the lack of apology from the Irish PM. Should he have apologized to the victims, and should reparations be made? Should the church take similar actions? In Ireland alone over 30,000 women passed through these institutions, until the closing of the last one in 1996. These women included not only prostitutes but abused girls, mentally disabled women, single mothers, inmates. The re-emergence of this issue into the news is due to a report that stated that the Irish government oversaw these institutes over decades of abuse.
A bit of background on the topic + Show Spoiler +Magdalene Asylums, other wise know as Magdalene Laundries, where houses run by to contain women of " poor moral character " such as prostitutes and promiscuous women.They existed across the western world, in both europe and the United States. They were supposedly to rehabilitate women to re-enter society, but they quickly became punitive and prison like, with force hard labor, and long periods of forced prayer and silence becoming the norm. Wiki page on the topic Please keep it civil and on topic.
More Links on the topic http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/05/ireland-magdalene-laundry-system-apology http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2013/02/06/irish-state-held-responsible-for-magdalene-laundries-run-by-catholic-nuns/
Survivors speak on the topic http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21345995
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The lack of an apology on the part of the government in this issue is disgusting at best. These women were robbed of their freedom and many didn't choose to join these institutions.
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So the last one was closed in 1996, meaning this ended roughly 17 years ago? For something that long ago, I'm pretty sure that no one gives a shit about an apology at this point. Some compensation would be nice though. Who doesn't like compensation?
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On February 07 2013 12:23 Blargh wrote: So the last one was closed in 1996, meaning this ended roughly 17 years ago? For something that long ago, I'm pretty sure that no one gives a shit about an apology at this point. Some compensation would be nice though. Who doesn't like compensation?
Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh?
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On February 07 2013 12:25 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 12:23 Blargh wrote: So the last one was closed in 1996, meaning this ended roughly 17 years ago? For something that long ago, I'm pretty sure that no one gives a shit about an apology at this point. Some compensation would be nice though. Who doesn't like compensation? Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh?
Not really. But no one would do anything if they worked for free. Which is basically what all of those women did, right? Obviously it's much later now, but a few words mean nothing. But I can tell you that just about all of those people wouldn't mind something to -compensate- for their time lost, ya know?
Also, it's not like that would ever happen anyway. No one wants to pay for shit. So it's theoretical.
I don't think anyone ever will be compensated in any way, ever.
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Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh? So what's your solution to give back to them the time they lost in the institutions? Time machines? We will need lots of money to make time machines. Oh, but we can't use money. I know... we'll use hugs instead. We can pay for time machines with hugs. Hugs and time machines... Canada's Alternative!
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Northern Ireland174 Posts
Yea they should do something to show remorse for basically torturing those women. Though if the [church] started to apologise for all the oppressive stuff it did and sentiment it spread then it would never stop apologising.
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Just as much a disgrace as this country's affair with residential schools. It's a damn shame.
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On February 07 2013 12:23 Blargh wrote: So the last one was closed in 1996, meaning this ended roughly 17 years ago? For something that long ago, I'm pretty sure that no one gives a shit about an apology at this point. Some compensation would be nice though. Who doesn't like compensation?
Consider that the French government only apologised for the collaberationist Vichy France last year, on the 70th anniversery of a particular incident of Jewish deportation called the "Vel d'Hiv Raids" (or the Australian PM apologising several years ago for "invading" Australia in the 18th century, which was a big deal here), I'd say apologies have great merit over a time span much longer than 17 years. The whole point of apologising for such things is not to make everything better, but to have honest recognition of past crimes and mistakes made by a country so that it can be discussed openly and frankly, and so such things can be avoided in the future.
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On February 07 2013 12:46 Nightfall.589 wrote: Just as much a disgrace as this country's affair with residential schools. It's a damn shame. I second this. Even though I don't have Canadian roots I shake my head whenever Natives are mistreated in NA and especially Canada. What a cruddy history we have with them, and our governmental relationships with them haven't substantially improved over time...
Back on topic, I don't understand how the PM of Ireland can not apologize for the government's input in mistreating women in the Magdalene Laundries while the government itself expresses apologies to the victims? Isn't the first statement inherited from the second, or am I missing some nuance?
But overall, I think it's good that the story surfaced (I first read this on Wikipedia). Darker aspects of a nation's history should systematically be talked about, discussed and analysed, so that the victims could feel a sense of justice (not quite but close enough) and that it does not happen again. About the Canadian thing I was talking about, it's just horrible that I was not told about it in highschool and I learned about it on the fly from an English teacher in college. These kind of things should automatically be part of the absolute basic education of children/people in general, so that they don't sneak out in total disgrace like this, and so that people remember.
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On February 07 2013 12:25 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 12:23 Blargh wrote: So the last one was closed in 1996, meaning this ended roughly 17 years ago? For something that long ago, I'm pretty sure that no one gives a shit about an apology at this point. Some compensation would be nice though. Who doesn't like compensation? Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh? Its incredibly insulting that you say all americans and their money. Don't be that presumptious. That said, I'm horrified that this isn't snowballing more in the world news. This is ridiculous that there is no apology for this treatment.
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It's an interesting topic things like this. We have something similar with the native population here in Canada except were paying millions of dollars to them.
Apologies do nothing concrete to help heal the problems caused by stuff like this. It's just a PC way to score political points in a lot of situations.
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I consider these government apologies to be of absolutely no value anyways, because the guy apologizing is never the same guy that did the wrong. This would be like you apologizing for something your father did before you were born...
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This is always an interesting one, it comes up all the time.
The problem is if the government makes an apology the PM looks bad, even though he had nothing to do with it. At the same time the PM has to take responsibility for the government, and saying sorry would mean on behalf of the government rather than him himself.
On February 07 2013 12:38 VasHeR wrote:Show nested quote +Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh? So what's your solution to give back to them the time they lost in the institutions? Time machines? We will need lots of money to make time machines. Oh, but we can't use money. I know... we'll use hugs instead. We can pay for time machines with hugs. Hugs and time machines... Canada's Alternative!
I must admit this reply was pretty good.
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On February 07 2013 12:38 VasHeR wrote:Show nested quote +Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh? So what's your solution to give back to them the time they lost in the institutions? Time machines? We will need lots of money to make time machines. Oh, but we can't use money. I know... we'll use hugs instead. We can pay for time machines with hugs. Hugs and time machines... Canada's Alternative!
Obviously monitary compensation would be a welcome gesture, as would an apology. The humility in the government confirming that it (not the current politicians, but the Government of Ireland) played a role in ruining these peoples lives actually would have a psychological effect on many of the victims of this. It would move their emotions from shame to healthy outrage - a move from misguided, self-reflective depression (which is very, very common among victims) to healthy indignation.
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The reason people don't apologize sooner is because it makes THEM look bad. No one wants to look bad, so it takes an eternity for "apologies" to ever happen. By the time they DO happen, people stopped caring about some silly apology. When you get an in argument with your girlfriend, do you guys just carry on casually for 4 years afterwards, then randomly come in and say, "Oh hey, ugh, sorry about that one time 4 years ago..." The point of an apology is to make people realize that it shouldn't have ever happened and that they made a mistake, but 10+ years from the period where it stopped, the people making the apology aren't even the people who started it in the first place! It's just bullshit at that point.
Also, revenge is never appropriate, ever. It's about the least progressive thing that could be done afterwards. So long as it never happens again, people should just look forward. Punishing the people who were in charge now would be really stupid. (They may have already been punished, I don't really know enough about the story/I forgot if I read it and am too lazy to re-read)
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It is fairly ridiculous that there's been no real apology given. People are pretty unhappy with the situation over here.
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On February 07 2013 13:21 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 12:25 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On February 07 2013 12:23 Blargh wrote: So the last one was closed in 1996, meaning this ended roughly 17 years ago? For something that long ago, I'm pretty sure that no one gives a shit about an apology at this point. Some compensation would be nice though. Who doesn't like compensation? Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh? Its incredibly insulting that you say all americans and their money. Don't be that presumptious. That said, I'm horrified that this isn't snowballing more in the world news. This is ridiculous that there is no apology for this treatment. There's nothing wrong with using stereotypes in casual speech... unless you want to argue that the stereotype is false? I honestly don't think it is.
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On February 07 2013 12:25 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 12:23 Blargh wrote: So the last one was closed in 1996, meaning this ended roughly 17 years ago? For something that long ago, I'm pretty sure that no one gives a shit about an apology at this point. Some compensation would be nice though. Who doesn't like compensation? Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh?
Yay for stereotypes, especially with no alternative proposed. I am reasonably certain in every modern, western counter some amount of fiscal compensation would be a part of this story being proposed. Blargh was brash, and I would be willing to bet an apology would go a long way but considering that many were deprived of education and by extension deprived of a large part of their earning potential I would say compensation is perfectly reasonable.
By extension if my stereotypes are correct you'll apologize soon, so there is that.
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On February 07 2013 20:49 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 13:21 docvoc wrote:On February 07 2013 12:25 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On February 07 2013 12:23 Blargh wrote: So the last one was closed in 1996, meaning this ended roughly 17 years ago? For something that long ago, I'm pretty sure that no one gives a shit about an apology at this point. Some compensation would be nice though. Who doesn't like compensation? Americans and their money, if only money could buy back the time people lost in these institutions, eh? Its incredibly insulting that you say all americans and their money. Don't be that presumptious. That said, I'm horrified that this isn't snowballing more in the world news. This is ridiculous that there is no apology for this treatment. There's nothing wrong with using stereotypes in casual speech... unless you want to argue that the stereotype is false? I honestly don't think it is. if only...
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