I'm back. I will take another look at austin in a sec, but I am fairly certain I saw austin playing the scum game, not the town game. I was just really tired when reading the thread, so will have to give it another look-through. For now I've seen two things that need doing.
1. I am Magus. I clearly have mommy issues, because my wincon was to kill Queen Zeal. Her fascination with Lavos caused me to be ripped from time and I want revenge. The reason I don't know what my spells do is because I am blind with rage and all my spells are powerful, so I don't care what I cast.
Having to kill Queen Zeal is the main reason I claimed the redcheck when I really didn't have one. My plan was to wait until we had a lynch cycle and then really push Toad. I planned on using his rolename to convince town that Queen Zeal couldn't be town and to get him lynched. In the meantime I would try to shoot him with anything I had and hope he died. However, when TC claimed the red check and Toad fakeclaimed, I just took the FAR easier way out: I knew Toad's roleclaim was fake, but just a name check is not a town role. At the time I didn't want to claim anything yet and so needed a way of getting his name into the thread without being automatically branded 3P (or second scumteam). Claiming one-shot name and alignment seemed like it was at least plausible for town to have, so I claimed a second red check on Toad together with the name (of course, I had to claim 3P not much later anyway, so I should probably not have bothered). Anyway, I was 99.9% sure he was scum at the time anyway because of 1. his behaviour, 2. TC's red check and 3. the fakeclaim, so I didn't think that bit would make much difference.
The reason I didn't immediately claim the alignment check was fake after we lynched Toad is because there was not much reason to and because it would make it really clear that I really really wanted Toad to die, up to the point where I fake a red check. People in this game are smart and would've been able to put Magus together from that.
My later actions have mainly focused on scumhunting in the traditional way, because when given a choice I prefer to win with town than with scum... and scumhunting was pretty easy for most of this game, with them claiming scum in the thread and all. I used most of my remaining actions on Drazerk, because he is Drazerk.
I only started crumbing on D3 after I was forced to claim 3P. I asked for a fakeclaim to be a similar blind JOAT role, but not called Magus. Grey gave me Masa & Mune: because my parts are broken, they are out of synch and don't know what they are doing. It's a bit of a shame I never got to use it, because I thought it was a rather amazing fakeclaim. Anyway, that breadcrumb is here:
On November 29 2012 07:39 Acrofales wrote:
I guess I can switch my vote to Dino. After all, all the townies are doing it. Maybe he'll even get Masamune.
<snip>
Here are my actions with breadcrumbs.
D1. Dark Matter. I knew this might be a multi-shot nuke based on this name, rather than the mason channel I hoped for, so I targeted Sandroba, because if the ability gave me a mason chat, then awesome, if not, then he was still a lurker at the end of D1 and I didn't feel bad shooting him. BioSC, because mason channels help lurkers get more active, at least in the chat. I already shot BioSC for lurking in Bastard 2 and wanted to know his alignment. Once again, though, if it turned out to be a nuke, no harm done. And Dienosore, because I was totally paranoid about Frog having some part of his wincon to kill Magus, which would've made total sense to me.
D2. Mind Read. Not much to say about this. Figured it would be some kind of check and it was.
D3. Black Hole on Toad. Breadcrumb here (I see I messed it up a bit  ):
On November 27 2012 00:30 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 00:14 iamperfection wrote:
I agree with you on VE he never is quiet from what i remember. It's an enigma. He obviously can't throw the whole hissyfit dealio with Toad again, because nobody would believe him, but he has disappeared off the face of the earth after being really enthusiastic in the signup thread and sounding pretty bumbed about not getting in. All VE has done this game is to vote Sandroba, with a fairly bland justification (basically saying sheeping Syllo is good) and give a blurb about how Hapa is scum. I especially like this post here: Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 00:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm back!
It's obviously too late to run for leader, unfortunately...but I'm reading what I missed now and I'll be back with thoughts soon. We're now 24 hours later, that makes him king of the lurkers.
Enigma is a dota hero best known for his ultimate: black hole. Hawking is an astrophysicist best known for his work figuring out how black holes work. The target is the guy I quoted.
Out of all the abilities I had left, I thought Black Hole the most likely to do lots of damage. It ended up doing 100 and jailing Toad.
D4: Shadow Shield on Kitaman and myself. I was paranoid about my 3P claim and thought people would try to shoot me. However, I thought Shadow Shield might also protect myself and my target, or bus myself with my target, so didn't want to target Toad. Kita was they guy I was most paranoid about, so I used it on him. Ended up protecting me equal to the damage the target took. Kita took 0 damage, so it didn't work at all. I am rather proud of the breadcrumb:
On November 29 2012 07:33 Acrofales wrote:While waiting, I've been going over Kitaman's filter. On the face of things I don't see scum, but I expect Marv was right about 3rd party. Don't believe me, believe Marv instead, who spent a considerable amount of time when he was alive trying to figure Kita out: + Show Spoiler [Marv's case] +On November 25 2012 02:48 marvellosity wrote:kitaman27There's just a couple of things I want to concentrate on with kita. Firstly is his party leader campaign. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 10:57 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd like to nominate myself as our heroic leader!
The success of these missions appear to carry significant weight and it's something I'd want direct control over. A successful day one will make each of the following days that much easier. I think these mechanics play to my strengths, which is identifying pro-town players early on. I promise to be active and open and not disappear once elected *shakes fist at wiggles*
---
Plus in 30+ games I've never won a mayoral election. Give me the pity vote! <3
Firstly, especially on day 1, it's arguable how active he was. He ran for party leader and then disappeared for large stretches of time. He says in his party leader speech bit here that the missions are very important and that he wants control over it. + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 10:03 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 07:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 07:13 phagga wrote:
Acrofales, if you are around, i would still like to know why you do not consider Kita a serious candidate. I dunno. I never consider Kita serious in the first place. I liked his posts this game, but then I kinda forgot about him. If he were to make an impact on the game then I could certainly see him as a serious contender. However he is also a risky candidate, because I don't find him easy to read at all. Kita is practically ruling himself out of the running by having such long stretches without posting. As he notes himself it's similar to a mayoral election and you need your mayor being around and interacting with town, which he is failing to do. THEY'RE BRINGING OUT THE ATTACK ADDS! I WISH IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE (AND MY FLAMES BURN BLACK) The reason I have been absent is because I have been at work all day like a hard working leader should be. Thankfully I have the next two days off! However, do you know who aren't very thankful? Marv, syllo, and sandroba!![[image loading]](http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/17971151/2/stock-illustration-17971151-thanksgiving-day-in-america.jpg) I am deeply saddened to report to you all that these three individuals are suspected of not planning to celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow! There are even rumors that syllo is a VEGETARIAN who enjoys spending the day watching SOCCER! Do you really want to elect a terrorist as your leader? Vote for a true leader. Vote Kita! Paid for by the Kavdragon Sucks PartyMore to come. Stay tuned! So after one of said absences comes the above post. lololol only one troll post he's already repeated, but whatever. If he genuinely believed he was the best player to lead town and pick out townies for his candidature, and given how important he said it was and how he wanted control, do you really come back after a long absence with a troll post? How was that supposed to help his possible candidature? His reasons for running for party leader and then his attitude when running for it seem totally incongruous. He said the leadership is very important but his actions in running don't line up with this stated attitude. I do not understand the townie motivation for this.
Secondly I want to look at his scumreads, or lack of them, or lack of good reasoning... you get the idea. + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 11:19 kitaman27 wrote:I'll start with people I wouldn't want on my team or wouldn't want the elected leader to choose for their team. As its still only 24 hours into the game, these are mostly gut or policy exclusions. I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed. iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. marv:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote:
There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough. I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it. Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing. Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. risk.nukeBesides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. strongandbigHis opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. kushm4staI'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself. These are people he wouldn't take on his party. Just ... weak. Why specifically call out strongandbig as someone whose opinions have been pretty vanilla and haven't earned a spot? It's pointless. "hey guys, this player is unremarkable! but i'm gonna remark on him!" risk is called scum for no reasoning, and iamp is "annoying". Great, it's a big bunch of nothing. I bring this up because it's the closest we get to any kind of scumread from kita for a super long time. His repeated attacks on Cave without ever demonstrating why it made Cave scum:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote:On November 23 2012 09:06 Adam4167 wrote:
In regards to my post to kita, I think it stands fine as it is. I am trying to figure out what the hell he is doing, because he claims to want to be taken seriously, but then posts a page of 'joke' reads and then campaigns as if they're perfectly acceptable. I am trying to ascertain if he is just goofing around, and I should ignore him, or if hes intentionally posting more garbage into this thread, something I think we can do without. I had one joke post and one joke read on risk. That's like 5% of my posts, yet you've brought it up three different times. Is this really your biggest concern. I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns) On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote:I blame Acro for this post but apparently my posting is too unique it doesn't work anyway and I feel I need to explain a few things to keep Acro / S+B being murdered because they know me too well. I claim Drazerk the Invoker Chef I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). Now to read what I've missed. He's clearly lying about his success modifier. It's a hidden value and he has no benchmark to lead him to believe 4 is a high number. He isn't keeping up with the thread. He's likely lying about his role and has a history of lying about his role. For whatever reason, he claims to think he would be a likely roleblock target. He has a history of never contributing in any game he has ever played in (and I mean that in the nicest of ways <3) Seriously, read the bolded. kita *knows* drazerk habitually lies and is habitually useless. Where here is there any attempt to demonstrate that Drazerk is scum? + Show Spoiler +On November 24 2012 09:02 kitaman27 wrote:In the early game, Cave brings up his identity and reveals that it would be quite damaging to the town to tell us who he is. When someone takes a guess at his identity, he tells us to keep guessing, conflicting with his initial post. Finally, he reveals his identity with an off-the-wall roleclaim. Now if I'm signing up as a smurf, why would I reveal my identity on the first day? The only reason I can come up with is if you have something to gain. From a town perspective, what do you have to gain as to claim draz? He said himself how it would not benefit the town. From a mafia perspective, you have an excuse to lie, troll, and not contribute due to his past reputation. As he is a smurf, we also don't have confirmation that this is actually draz and not just a smurf who is taking advantage of his identity. + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to shield d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation.
1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment.
2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game.
Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread. He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote:
Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). On November 23 2012 05:12 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 04:58 Hapahauli wrote:
yaaaaay another sheeper.
Well I hope that Syllo is town for our sake I'm just taking the enemy of my enemy approach with this election. Might be worth doing the same for consolidation Cave shows little interest in electing a leader on day one. He discredits syllo several times by stating that he is not running. When it becomes clear that syllo actually is running, he simply calls him a wasted vote, without elaborating. He finally decides to vote for me, while giving no indication that he has a town read on myself. Next, I'd like to look over his roleclaim: Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: I claim Drazerk the Invoker Chef I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. First off, we know that he doesn't know his success modifier. It's a hidden value. He mistakenly sees another player reference their hypothetical modifier and pretends to know his. He claims that his success modifier is low, yet has no reference to go by. This is a lie. Besides the fact that his role sounds extremely implausible, if a post is partly a lie, there is no reason to believe anything at all. Furthermore, he references a third party character that he needs to take down. How would this fit in with the flavor of a Chef at all? Who is he hunting, the evil third party mushrooms? Now here is the part that I'm not able to put together. What is the purpose of the fake role claim? Is he just playing to his reputation of compulsive fake role claims? Is he trying to draw a hit? When marv claimed to take damage, he seems to indicate that he may have been responsible due to sort of reflective damage ability. Now this leads me to three thoughts: 1) If his first conclusion is that marv tried to hit him, is this the reason marv was the target of a roleblock? 2) If he truly can reflect damage, attempting to take a hit would fit in line with his role claim, even if lying to town is an incredibly awful way of doing so. 3) By claiming damage reflection, is he trying to discredit further attacks on himself for self preservation. Today he has been gone. He has provided no input on today's lynch. I've seen draz play like this several times as mafia and town. At the end of the game, if he's scum, he laughs at the fact that town has ignored him. If he's town, he appears amused and plays the same way the next game. I think he should be forced into a full role claim with an explanation of his entire intentions thus far. At this point, the benefits of hiding his role, does not outweigh the distraction he is causing. If he tries to give us more nonsense, he should be lynched. If he doesn't post again this cycle. he should be lynched. He does it again. A big case against Draz without ever saying why it made Drazerk scum. I pushed kita on it not so long ago because I know kita isn't really a fan of policy lynches. I find his answers pretty lacking, especially his equation to his pushing Storm mafia which I talked about here: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:46 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:36 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote:
Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote:
kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits? I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen. As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment. Does this not make it a policy lynch? Perhaps, but I still view him as anti-town, as oppossed to a policy lynch on a player like BM, simply due to the fact that he is BM. I usually don't advocate lynching liars that I can see some benefit from, such as GM's fake medic claim in team melee, but I'm not seeing how drazerk's claim benefits the town or makes any sense. How do you recommend we deal with him? Ignore him and save him for last? What is your opinion on nuke? I'm not sure about nuke right now. He seems somewhat invested but not enough to make me want to call him town. Just a note on your case, you said he wasn't worried day 1 when voting for sandroba whether he was town, but he had said when he did so "Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays." which at least indicates a read of some sort. Regarding Cave: perhaps he can be roleblocked and vigged at some point, maybe he can be lynched later. But is it seriously your opinion that he has the highest chance of flipping scum today? It's the fact that you are considering this that seems so subpar from you (sorry if you feel insulted by this). It feels like the easy way out on a lynch, and that does not feel like your town play I read from LV/Storm at all. You do realize that my entire focus in Storm was pushing a "policy" lynch on RoL due to his absence right? He lived three cycles longer than he should have -_- Anyways, there are a couple more people I want to bring up, then I'll decide on a preferred candidate. Brb. I do realise this given how I have read your filter from that game about 2 hours ago. Difference? You specifically gave examples of why his absence made him likely scum. You drew examples of excuses to contribute from previous games where he was scum, and you pushed the idea that RoL went absent much more as scum than as town. In no way have you demonstrated, or at least tried to demonstrate, why Drazerk's behaviour makes him more likely to be scum (*for Drazerk*) than town. Don't bullshit me, please. In that game he was pushing RoL for being scum due to his absence, and he's pretending here that his push on Drazerk is similar, which it is not. He made a clear effort in Storm demonstrate that RoL was scum, by drawing on past games. No effort to do so on Cave here.
For whatever reason kita keeps saying he's going to look at sandroba next but never actually has. Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 08:04 kitaman27 wrote:
Right now I'm looking at sandroba, Cave, and two other individuals. More to come. Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 09:11 kitaman27 wrote:
My remarks on sandroba proved to be quite accurate. He disappears and here we have people screaming that it exactly matches his scum meta of being lazy, while we have other people that are convinced that his absence is something he would never do as scum. I'll be looking at him next most likely..
There are several mentions of sandroba in kita's filter but always in passing, always something in the future. Also I've pointed this out before, but remember: Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote:
I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns)
Literally the first time he mentioned he's in favour of a sandroba lynch. How can he be 'still' in favour of it? Nothing makes sense in kita's approach to sandroba's this game. To summarise briefly: kita ran for party leader on the basis that he wanted control because his town reads are good and he wanted to help town and that was done best by leading. He then did he best to trivialise his campaign by being absent for stretches and making a massive joke post. His scumhunting has not been scumhunting at all. With his first reads post he gives no reason why anyone is scummy. He gives no reasons why Cave is scummy, merely that he continues to be Drazerk. He is in favour of a sandroba lynch by magic, although he keeps putting off talking about him. kita is seriously not hunting for scum. ##Vote: kitaman27
Having said all this  I'm not averse to a sandroba lynch either. I find his lack of contributions remarkable. People have been comparing his play to Looney lynch mafia, where he was almost lynched Day 1. Do you know the difference? In that game sandroba had OriginalName as his clear scumread with a good explanation, and during Night 1 he told town to lynch both da0ud and prplhz with reasons. That sandroba, while absent for long periods, was clearly looking to find and lynch scum. That's absent here. I would consolidate on sandroba if needed to secure a lynch. ll in all, this makes more sense from a 3P if he has to be included in a party (although my own wincon does not indicate that this is a possibility). However, the 3P vibe gets stronger: Kita has a real obsession with 3P: Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 10:55 kitaman27 wrote:On November 24 2012 10:52 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 24 2012 10:33 kitaman27 wrote:On November 24 2012 10:28 CaveJohnson wrote:
Kita - Spicy jerky is the equivalent of the Invoker ability betrayal its one of four abilities I know the actual effect of, I won't know any more until tomorrow. (Yes I used it last night hence why I asked marv if he attacked me)
I understand that I cause mayhem and distractions and that is why I vanished today, in order to allow discussion that wasn't just on me. To make things clear, you're sticking with the story that you know your sucess modifier? You're sticking with your story that you are a chef who knows about a third party character? I want the exact description of all your roles or I'm not going to be satisfied. If you truly care about not causing a distraction, list everything you know, your intentions, and your suspects today. If you're going to come up with excuses and disappear, you're only making things worse. I know someone is after one of my foods (I don't know which and I don't know if they are third party its just likely to me) I have the dota equivalent to the following - Lightning shield, Firestorm and Chaos meteor. My intention is to survive to end game and win with town. That is the same as anyone else who is town... I may have extra abilities to do it but I don't know how often I'll gain preventive abilities. Suspect wise I lean TC but I'm interesting in prom. You know you are never going to be happy with me though. So I'm not really sure what exactly you are looking for. So let me get this straight. You knew a person was after your food, so in order to increase your chances of survival, you decide to role claim that you are the chef? Could you walk me through your thought process? To understand correctly, you are claiming third party, but seek to work with town to achieve your objectives? Strange, because Drazerk never claimed 3P, although it was easy to get a 3P vibe from him due to his posting in D1. I had a 3P vibe on Drazerk, but it's only natural because I was wondering whether there was anymore 3P around, being one myself. Then Kita gets accused of being 3P. His defense is rather strange: Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 02:47 kitaman27 wrote:On November 26 2012 22:16 marvellosity wrote:
oh by the way, kita is totes 3rd party, I decided last night before I went to sleep.
His games he plays are an inherent part of his role, and he may get certain rewards for succeeding them
Part of his wincon is to be included on a (successful) party
ta-da! oh god. I swear this happens to me every game. Arkham City: "Kita, we know that Palmar and Kurumi essentially roleclaimed third party in the thread, but we think you're the batman!" Aperature: "Oh look, Kita killed 4 scum and presented cases against three others. He has to be third party x20." Storm: "Kita is obviously a hider, but since he can't possibly be scum, he's a serial killing hider!" I'm not totes, but I can confirm that the theme of today's game involves throwing beanbags, so Norstein Bekkler is definitely the one targeting me with these abilities. I claimed a shot on Cave day one providing evidence of a role not related to the games. On November 26 2012 22:27 Acrofales wrote:
@Marv: I have no clue. I agree that his guessing games seems to be role-related, rather than someone's action, but fucked if I know that that's alignment indicative. 3P does make some sense, given that he is not very interested in scumhunting. I don't know why he wants to be on a party, though (unless it's in his wincon as you say, but the games and the wincon don't seem to go together). I presented thoughts on four different individuals on day two. Just because my filter isn't 15 pages doesn't mean I have less content. Marv is the town hero for presenting a busted case against myself, we have people like nuke and cave who haven't shared thoughts on anyone, and I'm the one not interested in scum hunting? On November 26 2012 23:13 Promethelax wrote:
Kita: name claim please? No. I'll admit I haven't been as active yesterday, which is mainly because I don't think the town requires much guidance this cycle. The selection of the first two individuals is pretty straight forward and I don't have a scum read on any of the proposed members, even if I'd rather see myself included. Could someone walk me through the reason for clarity? I recall that he had some night interaction with Marv's role, but his 17 page filter is too much to go through in my 20 minutes I have. Back to work -_- He acts like the kicked dog as defense. Rather than pointing out townie reasons for his behaviour, he whinges about previous games in which he was unjustly called 3P. That's not a defense of why he's not 3rd party this game. He has been playing very much like a 3rd party this game. The final piece of evidence is that his whole activity around my claim was trying to get me to reveal my FAKEclaim. Not my real name, but my fakeclaim. It made no sense. But if he's worried that he has a similar fakeclaim and I will blow his cover, then it does: + Show Spoiler [Kita wants my fakeclaim] +On November 28 2012 11:53 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 21:19 syllogism wrote:
One has to wonder how whoever is responsible for Kita's guessing game knew that we would have a lynch day 2. The game was worded so that I had to guess who would be elected or lynched, which is why I tend to think it was a targeted ability and not something built into the game. Acro's role claim is the most important reveal since my last post so I'll go into this first. First off, we treat Acro as an anti-town player. He claims to have a different win condition than us and refuses to reveal the details of this win condition. We cannot confirm he is third party. We only know that his alignment was outed by an investigative role and that he felt claiming third party was in his best interest. We don't have confirmation that he actually used a role check on day two. Keep in mind he revealed the role of a player who already had a scum check on him. As a survivalist, there is little reason to attract extra attention. By revealing his investigative role, he only made himself more of a threat to mafia night hits. Now look at the timing of Acro's claim: Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 02:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 02:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 28 2012 01:50 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 01:46 risk.nuke wrote:On November 28 2012 01:43 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 01:39 risk.nuke wrote:
If you're third party and you're good for town why don't you want to say what you want to do, you're asking us to trust you leaving you alive is in towns best interest. What third party have 1-shot cop. I can't say what I need to do, because anybody with Chrono Trigger lore knowledge will probably be able to figure out who I am. As there's probably mechanisms to prevent that from being a good idea, you'll just have to trust me. Have I given you any reason not to trust me? Lets put it this way, If you were third party who's objective would hurt town. Would you claim that or something in the lines of what you just did? I would lie my ass off. However, I would probably not be leaking 3rd party on all sides. I am a better player than that and you should know it. I played the way I did precisely because I am helping town. If you have any specific accusations, go ahead and make them. You were suspected as scum even with the play you've played. Playing worse might had gotten you lynched already. You're asking us to trust you but you should understand there is no way that's going to happen. Really? I was in danger of being lynched? I want some of what you're smoking. Votes on Acro D2: 0. People who wanted to take me to the prom D3: 2 claimed before I put an end to it. The next lynch is pretty much locked in on Toad, so I didn't have to fear that either. When exactly was I in ANY danger of being lynched?! Acro explains things well enough here. He was in no danger of being lynched this cycle. He was in no danger of being lynched next cycle. So as a third party player, why would he open himself up to two extra cycles of night actions if there is a player that is trying to kill him? Why not claim three cycles from now? Currently, I feel the town has given Acro far too much leeway with his secrets. He no longer gets to make his own decisions. We get to make them for him. Acro claims to have been provided a fake claim. He needs to reveal this fake claim now so we confirm it isn't counterclaimed and that no other player is able to use this claim later on. Acro needs to role claim. If he truly is a third party player who is being targeted by another player, I'm sure they've already put two and two together. Hiding this information isn't going to keep him safe. If he wants to cooperate with town he needs to reveal his role name, his role, and his win conditions. He no longer has the luxury of keeping these things secret after claiming for survival. If he refuses, we should assume he doesn't have town's best interest at heart. (Please don't shoot me for standing up to you :p ) For the team selection I propose: Dieno, syllo, clarity, TC I don't really feel I have to go into reasons for the first three players. Dieno hasn't had a chance for leadership yet and is requesting it, which is why I prefer him as leader over syllo. TC now has revealed two separate investigative checks that have benefited town. With Acro feeling necessary to claim, we can confirm the legitimacy of his check. I see no reason why someone like phagga or hap should be included over him. In the event that the mafia has the ability to day vig or exclude one of the players in this group of four players, we should probably have a backup, which should be iamperfection based upon his healing of marv, which hasn't been counterclaimed. First I need to reveal my fakeclaim. Second I need to roleclaim. Note the order. I tell him I won't claim. He's perfectly happy dropping that, but he is adamant about: On November 28 2012 12:23 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 12:19 Acrofales wrote:
@Kita: when someone non-3P wants me to claim I will still say no. You are at the top of my list of the reasons I didn't fully claim. Like hell I am going to claim. Of course you won't. Props for even trying to discredit my alignment in your refusal  Lets start simple and reveal the fake claim you were given. On November 28 2012 12:40 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 12:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 12:30 kitaman27 wrote:On November 28 2012 12:25 Acrofales wrote:
Do you think I'm scum? I think there is no reason to trust your promise that you have the town's best interest in mind. Look at me caring. I don't trust that town has my best interest in mind. How about we all look out for ourselves and when town beats Lavos and I survive we can go our own ways. Deal? Who's your fake claim? On November 28 2012 12:52 kitaman27 wrote:
In the event that you are mafia, revealing the fake claim means that the mafia team would have one claim to work with late game.
meh I guess if you're not going to cooperate, we just deal with you accordingly after Toad. That's right, the fake claim. With a really flimsy excuse. As if I wouldn't be willing to blow someone's cover with my fake claim if they ever tried that? Well yes, I would... and that's exactly what Kita is worried about. So, Kita, want to claim your identity?
Shadow breadcrumbed in the regular text. Shield can be found by opening up the spoiler "Marv's case". In that spoiler, open up Marv's 3rd spoiler and then open the first nested quote. Somewhere heavily nested is a post by Toad from November 21 2012 17:13. I replaced and italicized a word with "shield". Target is simply the target of the post.
D5: Fiendlord's Grasp on Toad. Had no clue what this would do, but with Toad claiming unlynchable, I still REALLY wanted him dead. Turned out it made him unable to target me for 2 cycles. It got refunded because it fizzled. Breadcrumb is also creative:
On December 01 2012 05:26 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 04:12 Dienosore wrote:On December 01 2012 03:56 Acrofales wrote:On December 01 2012 03:50 Promethelax wrote:
A thought Acro, you said you had 9 abilities right? And draz has 27, but only learns about two a night? I doubt it, three seems much more logical.
Imp: me no can heal. Honest ly, I think Drazerk is lying about everything he has done this game. His role sounds OP compared to mine: I haven't tried all my abilities yet, but I have n ot yet stumbled upon anything as powerful as the nuke Drazerk claimed to use last night. Kush had one, but it was his ONLY ability. I also only have 9 abilities and can't know what they do until I fi re them. He claims 250 HP, but never takes the damage he's supposed to and doesn't die when he's supposed to. He claims to be able to nuke for retarded amounts, which don't line up with what actually hits. He doesn't hit Kita with the damage he claims he is doing. Imho one (or both) of Drazerk and Kita is lying about the damage they've been dealing to each other. Add that to the absolute weirdness of Drazerk's role and I am quite convinced Drazerk is lying. Well duh. I consider this as fact: Everything Toad says at this point is a lie and intended to misguide town. Now here I put forth case a and b. They both concern the same event. case.a On November 29 2012 09:07 Toadesstern wrote:
holy crap someone shot me for 710 dmg. case.b On November 29 2012 10:22 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh i really took 750 dmg but I'm pretty much immortal (again, why does every host give those roles to me? It's like the 3rd time I'm the joker in a row) so you can't really kill me. Which tells me he didn't take any dmg, hence could be why he didn't shake when I indirectly quizzed him about his hp A fiendish plot. I also saw the two different claims and figured he was probably lying. I wouldn't be so fast as to say he took no damage, just that he is lying about how much damage he took. He's grasping the opportunity to spread misinformation in the town (and forcing me to give up information about my HP, which luckily is rather high). Well, we lynch Toad tonight and that's the end of it.
To find "lord", you have to actually go to the original post and click "quote". In the post I quoted, I put empty bold tags just before an l, an o, an r and a d. Amazingly these do not get filtered out by TL's code, but do absolutely nothing.
D6: Lurk in the Shadows on Drazerk. Would've told me if Drazerk ever visited, or was ever visited by Queen Zeal. Unfortunately completely useless because I already completed this part of my wincon. Breadcrumb, although I was getting really lazy by now:
On December 03 2012 05:15 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 03:39 austinmcc wrote:
Okay, so here's an observation. Last event, we grabbed for the sword. There was no phase 2 of the Slash fight. So we know that these events don't play out 1:1 with the analogous bits of the game. We both chose something you CAN'T do in game, and got a result that CAN'T HAPPEN in game.
I still like using the game to inform our choices in the events, but we need to be careful not to think we KNOW that this will work out the same as the game.
As to the path, would rather avoid traps. Something like "traps in the game --> xp and items" is one of the things i DON'T think will carry over. This mafia game is already incredibly complex, but that seems like going a little too far with it. So I'd rather take the path that looks like it might not hit traps, B.
Magus also probably isn't 1:1 with his game version. We're basically starting on the second phase of the fight, after his barrier is down. From what I remember, healing in the fight draws things out and you probably eat a bunch of dark matters while trying to stay ahead of them with heals. But the limits of this game mean Grey (probably?) can't draw the magus fight out for a bunch of 24 hour periods, and so healing/not dying sounds better to me than trying to end the fight quickly by attacking with everything. So even though I'd probably go with B in the game itself, A sounds like a better deal within the confines of mafia.
I'm used to better from you. Your analysis in LVI impressed me enough that I pushed the scumteam to shoot you over some more renowned players. Your posts so far have been speculation about the events, which while important, are basically a distraction from the game of Mafia. This post in particular is using a lot of words to rehash what has been said already. Despite this, I realize replacing into this game must be hard. Reading 180 pages of posts is tough, but you come in with some fresh views. All I want from you at the moment is that you share some of these thoughts. Zbo was lurking badly after some rather dubious actions in the early game. You got anything other than setup speculation? Lets hear from you, a fresh perspective: what do you think of Hapa, SnB, GK, risk and anybody who struck you as looking like scum. What is your opinion of CJ and his inconsistent claims? Come out of the shadows and share your ideas!
D7: Fiendlord's Keep on Drazerk. Didn't breadcrumb because I outright stated in the thread that I was playing ability roulette with him.
On December 05 2012 08:00 Acrofales wrote:
Oh, CJ, I'm playing ability roulette with you tonight. Just for giggles. Who knows what will hit you!
D8: Mind Read on Drazerk. Once again, stated openly in the thread:
On December 07 2012 08:01 Acrofales wrote:
2 nights ago I was given 2 charges to reactivate used spells. I used 1 charge tonight to check CJ's rolename. At the time I lied about it giving alignment. It is only rolename. We'll see whether Drazerk was telling the truth about being the Chef. Unfortunately I cannot verify his alignment.
D9: Fiendlord's Grasp on Kita. No crumb. I still am paranoid about Kita trying to shoot me. I doubt anybody else will at this point, so this made sense. He cannot target me tonight either.
And that's it. Tonight I plan on using Dark Mist. It is self-targeting and by the name, I'm guessing it does damage to anybody targeting me. I then still have Black Gemstone left, which is also self-targeting. I am guessing it is some kind of heal, but the name is really cryptic (because it's an item in the game that enables you to cast Dark Matter). I already asked Greymist about it and he said that they ran out of spell names, so gave me an item name instead of a spell name, but it still works as a spell.
On December 10 2012 16:51 syllogism wrote:
Acro you have to convince me that you aren't going to be a liability during the lavos fight, or I will have to disable you for the duration of it. I can disable you without it impeding my damage output, so I've very little reason not to do it without some convincing.
I promise I won't be a liability and I have a way of proving I'm not scum. It says scum cannot target Lavos. I can. Tomorrow, feel free to roleblock me and watch me target Lavos. I can still reactivate one of my abilities and am happy to use that to prove I am not scum.
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