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On November 30 2012 10:26 Atokad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 07:32 Damiani wrote:On November 30 2012 03:08 Atokad wrote:On November 30 2012 01:33 Probe1 wrote:Heh I see that schedule and have a completely different reaction. Maybe it's because every weekend I'm watching ACC and SEC games for myself instead of hearing the hype from the hype technicians behind the sportscenter desk. You think Notre Dames schedule is bad but really now Western Kentucky- Ohio valley conference isn't it? X
Arkansas- lol what more needs to be said. X
Florida Atlantic- .. jeez this is hard coming up with ways to say the team is truly bad. X
Mizzou- lost to Vanderbilt should be voted off the island. X
Tennessee- lost to everyone/coach is a joke/his contract is funnier/also lost to Vandy. X
West Carolina- as you correctly identified it's a cupcake
Auburn- Worst season in my living memory.
Games that if had Alabama lost they would have dropped straight out of the top 10: 7 out of 12. I'm not saying that they had an easy schedule but trying to write off seven out of the twelve teams they played as SEC tough as nails is just wrong. At least 4 of those were cupcake quality games. All of them were routs. The only team with a losing record Notre Dame has played is Boston College. Compare that to Alabama with 6 victories over 5-7 or worse teams. Who has the easier schedule now? Editing in just to make that clear- that was rhetorical. What it really comes down to though is what you value more: The team that beats up a bunch of shit teams or the team that won ugly over some average and good teams. Remember what happened to Oregon. They stomped all over easy teams and what happened when they lost -----> out of the picture. With Alabamas actual schedule and not the mythological amount of hype that people generalize SEC with- they've had a comparable year to Oregon. A better team than Oregon in my opinion but not as hard as some schedules including the one listed under the Notre Dame header.
I was going to hold this back but I decided fuck it I have one more thing to add. The only reason Alabama is a contender for the national title is because Ohio State isn't eligible. Think about that. That's one of the reasons why I dislike the idea of the playoff system (I still think it's good, but this is a detractor). Winners win. Losers don't. Alabama didn't win. Ohio State won. Notre Dame won. You can write thousands and thousands of pages on why XYZ Colorado and Boston College and University of Lafayette-Monroe should be playing for the championship and it'll make just as much sense. The team that ends the season undefeated is the victor. You want to make the argument that if Alabama would have lost to one of those 7 out of 12 teams we can make the same argument for ND: Navy Purdue Miami FL BYU Pitt Boston College Wake Forest USC The only difference is, Alabama's closest game outside of the 4 pt LSU win and 5 pt TAMU loss, to two top 10 teams at the end of the season, is 33-14 vs Ole Miss, 19 point game. All of the other games were 20+ point differential against substantial opponents.
You can make every argument you want for Notre Dame and it's barely winning against shitty teams and good teams alike, but when it comes down to it if they do end up playing Alabama, we will all see how bad ND really is. (even if they play Georgia, tbh) EDIT: If you don't like USC on that list since everyone seems to like USC for whatever reason, substitute a failed Michigan State. Oh, and with regards to the Ohio State portion, no shit they aren't eligible, go back and read why they aren't and please try to tell us that they deserve to be playing for the national championship. They probably are the best team in the country but they shouldn't and aren't allowed to compete for it. Ya the sad part about this is that's the only two tough games for Bama. And they nearly ( should of lost) lost to LSU and lost to Texas AM. You make it sound like ND is a bad team. ND has the #1 defense in the country. And it's not like they played against disfunctional SEC offensive teams. They held Miami (who avg 31pts a game) to 3 pts. They held Oklahoma (41.7 pts a game 7th in the country) to 1 Td and only 13 pts. They held USC (35pts game) to 1 Td and only 13 pts. And you're seriously doubting ND as a good team? The even more impressive thing is ND shutting down OU and USC offense on the road. OU avg almost 50pts at home and USC 45 pts at home. I can only imagine what ND's defense would do to an SEC offense. If you think Bama or Georgia would light up the scoreboard against ND defense then you must be sipping on some crazy batshit kool-aid. If any teams capable of putting up pts against ND it would definately be OU or USC at home. But they both could only put up a single TD each against ND. This is prob going to be a FG game. Only TD scoring would prob be on the defensive side or special team. You're nitpicking certain statistics that, still, are able to be countered by looking at the opposition's same stats. The two games you talk about with ND going on the road vs good offensive teams. OU at home (you said 50 points, yet it's actually 41.4) - held to 13 points USC at home (you said 45 points, yet it's actually 38.5) - held to 13 points with backup/freshman QB Now let's take a look at it from the other side. Bama's top performing opponent's offenses at home: Michigan at home (35) - held to 14 points - we won't count this because it was at a neutral location LSU at home (33) - held to 17 Tennessee (38.25) - held to 13 I'll throw in Texas A&M's scoring for the sake of my next point: 44.8 points per game, Alabama held for 24 Let's look at the already stated games ND has played vs the non-great USC(sarcasm)/OU: - Pittsburgh (averages 27.5 pts per game and has a 5-6 record fighting to become bowl eligible this weekend) took ND to TRIPLE Overtime AT ND with 26 points, who also allows 21 points per game, which ND was only able to summon 29) - A 6-6 Purdue team, again, at ND, put up a 3 point contest (20-17) - A 7-5 BYU team, for the third time, at ND, put up another 3 point contest (17-14) Please try and tell me that these teams (5-6, 6-6, 7-5) are in any way of the same caliber as the only two close games of Alabama in #7 LSU (10-2) and #9 TAMU (10-2). The closest game next to these two for Alabama, as stated before, was a 19 point differential win. --- Show nested quote +Ya the sad part about this is that's the only two tough games for Bama. And they nearly ( should of lost) lost to LSU and lost to Texas AM. Reminder(As stated before), you want to talk about close games that they should have lost?: Notre Dame had vs unranked Purdue (3pt game), #18 Michigan (7 pt game), #17 Stanford (7 pt OT game), unranked BYU (3 pt game), unranked Pitt (3 pt OT game) and unranked USC (9 pt game without their starting quarterback). --- They both have decent defenses, no doubt, but there is a difference in that Alabama averages 39 pts per game (Georgia 38), Notre Dame averages 27. More fun facts: Notre Dame's scoring in all games 321-124 and Alabama 468-106 Alabama has to play 13 games to make it to the NC, where ND only as to play 12. Alabama's top 25 finishing opponents (as of now) are #3, #7, #9, and #19 Notre Dame's top 25 opponents finishing rankings are #8, #11, and #19 --- Come back when you have some relevant arguments to make based on why you think ND will win.
I think the hole in your argument would be, ND's non ranked opponents would smash Alabama's. Had Alabama played the same teams I think their points for and against would be close to ND's.
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I think the hole in your argument would be, ND's non ranked opponents would smash Alabama's. Had Alabama played the same teams I think their points for and against would be close to ND's.
No. Alabama had no problem against their non-ranked opponents, where as Notre Dame had to go to overtime twice vs. theirs. I'd make a more detailed answer but I'm leaving for the night.
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On November 30 2012 10:50 Atokad wrote:Show nested quote +I think the hole in your argument would be, ND's non ranked opponents would smash Alabama's. Had Alabama played the same teams I think their points for and against would be close to ND's. No. Alabama had no problem against their non-ranked opponents, where as Notre Dame had to go to overtime twice vs. theirs. I'd make a more detailed answer but I'm leaving for the night.
That does nothing to address his point. The point was that ND non-ranked opponents were worlds better than Alabama's. How Alabama did against their cupcakes isn't really relevant to that discussion. I.E. one would expect Bama to have better stats as Bama's cupcakes are that much easier the ones ND faced.
Edit - Not saying I necessarily agree with the position, just what you provided shows nothing towards you point.
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United States22883 Posts
ND's non-ranked opponents were not worlds better than Alabama's. You're comparing Navy to Tennessee. W. Carolina has a shit program, so does BC. Auburn has a shit program, so does Wake Forest. At the bottom, you're really only comparing shit to shit, and I really don't think teams like Purdue or MSU would've managed 6 wins this year in the SEC and probably not even the Pac 10.
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On November 30 2012 10:26 Atokad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 07:32 Damiani wrote:On November 30 2012 03:08 Atokad wrote:On November 30 2012 01:33 Probe1 wrote:Heh I see that schedule and have a completely different reaction. Maybe it's because every weekend I'm watching ACC and SEC games for myself instead of hearing the hype from the hype technicians behind the sportscenter desk. You think Notre Dames schedule is bad but really now Western Kentucky- Ohio valley conference isn't it? X
Arkansas- lol what more needs to be said. X
Florida Atlantic- .. jeez this is hard coming up with ways to say the team is truly bad. X
Mizzou- lost to Vanderbilt should be voted off the island. X
Tennessee- lost to everyone/coach is a joke/his contract is funnier/also lost to Vandy. X
West Carolina- as you correctly identified it's a cupcake
Auburn- Worst season in my living memory.
Games that if had Alabama lost they would have dropped straight out of the top 10: 7 out of 12. I'm not saying that they had an easy schedule but trying to write off seven out of the twelve teams they played as SEC tough as nails is just wrong. At least 4 of those were cupcake quality games. All of them were routs. The only team with a losing record Notre Dame has played is Boston College. Compare that to Alabama with 6 victories over 5-7 or worse teams. Who has the easier schedule now? Editing in just to make that clear- that was rhetorical. What it really comes down to though is what you value more: The team that beats up a bunch of shit teams or the team that won ugly over some average and good teams. Remember what happened to Oregon. They stomped all over easy teams and what happened when they lost -----> out of the picture. With Alabamas actual schedule and not the mythological amount of hype that people generalize SEC with- they've had a comparable year to Oregon. A better team than Oregon in my opinion but not as hard as some schedules including the one listed under the Notre Dame header.
I was going to hold this back but I decided fuck it I have one more thing to add. The only reason Alabama is a contender for the national title is because Ohio State isn't eligible. Think about that. That's one of the reasons why I dislike the idea of the playoff system (I still think it's good, but this is a detractor). Winners win. Losers don't. Alabama didn't win. Ohio State won. Notre Dame won. You can write thousands and thousands of pages on why XYZ Colorado and Boston College and University of Lafayette-Monroe should be playing for the championship and it'll make just as much sense. The team that ends the season undefeated is the victor. You want to make the argument that if Alabama would have lost to one of those 7 out of 12 teams we can make the same argument for ND: Navy Purdue Miami FL BYU Pitt Boston College Wake Forest USC The only difference is, Alabama's closest game outside of the 4 pt LSU win and 5 pt TAMU loss, to two top 10 teams at the end of the season, is 33-14 vs Ole Miss, 19 point game. All of the other games were 20+ point differential against substantial opponents.
You can make every argument you want for Notre Dame and it's barely winning against shitty teams and good teams alike, but when it comes down to it if they do end up playing Alabama, we will all see how bad ND really is. (even if they play Georgia, tbh) EDIT: If you don't like USC on that list since everyone seems to like USC for whatever reason, substitute a failed Michigan State. Oh, and with regards to the Ohio State portion, no shit they aren't eligible, go back and read why they aren't and please try to tell us that they deserve to be playing for the national championship. They probably are the best team in the country but they shouldn't and aren't allowed to compete for it. Ya the sad part about this is that's the only two tough games for Bama. And they nearly ( should of lost) lost to LSU and lost to Texas AM. You make it sound like ND is a bad team. ND has the #1 defense in the country. And it's not like they played against disfunctional SEC offensive teams. They held Miami (who avg 31pts a game) to 3 pts. They held Oklahoma (41.7 pts a game 7th in the country) to 1 Td and only 13 pts. They held USC (35pts game) to 1 Td and only 13 pts. And you're seriously doubting ND as a good team? The even more impressive thing is ND shutting down OU and USC offense on the road. OU avg almost 50pts at home and USC 45 pts at home. I can only imagine what ND's defense would do to an SEC offense. If you think Bama or Georgia would light up the scoreboard against ND defense then you must be sipping on some crazy batshit kool-aid. If any teams capable of putting up pts against ND it would definately be OU or USC at home. But they both could only put up a single TD each against ND. This is prob going to be a FG game. Only TD scoring would prob be on the defensive side or special team. You're nitpicking certain statistics that, still, are able to be countered by looking at the opposition's same stats. The two games you talk about with ND going on the road vs good offensive teams. OU at home (you said 50 points, yet it's actually 41.4) - held to 13 points USC at home (you said 45 points, yet it's actually 38.5) - held to 13 points with backup/freshman QB Now let's take a look at it from the other side. Bama's top performing opponent's offenses at home: Michigan at home (35) - held to 14 points - we won't count this because it was at a neutral location LSU at home (33) - held to 17 Tennessee (38.25) - held to 13 I'll throw in Texas A&M's scoring for the sake of my next point: 44.8 points per game, Alabama held for 24 Let's look at the already stated games ND has played vs the non-great USC(sarcasm)/OU: - Pittsburgh (averages 27.5 pts per game and has a 5-6 record fighting to become bowl eligible this weekend) took ND to TRIPLE Overtime AT ND with 26 points, who also allows 21 points per game, which ND was only able to summon 29) - A 6-6 Purdue team, again, at ND, put up a 3 point contest (20-17) - A 7-5 BYU team, for the third time, at ND, put up another 3 point contest (17-14) Please try and tell me that these teams (5-6, 6-6, 7-5) are in any way of the same caliber as the only two close games of Alabama in #7 LSU (10-2) and #9 TAMU (10-2). The closest game next to these two for Alabama, as stated before, was a 19 point differential win. --- Show nested quote +Ya the sad part about this is that's the only two tough games for Bama. And they nearly ( should of lost) lost to LSU and lost to Texas AM. Reminder(As stated before), you want to talk about close games that they should have lost?: Notre Dame had vs unranked Purdue (3pt game), #18 Michigan (7 pt game), #17 Stanford (7 pt OT game), unranked BYU (3 pt game), unranked Pitt (3 pt OT game) and unranked USC (9 pt game without their starting quarterback). --- They both have decent defenses, no doubt, but there is a difference in that Alabama averages 39 pts per game (Georgia 38), Notre Dame averages 27. More fun facts: Notre Dame's scoring in all games 321-124 and Alabama 468-106 Alabama has to play 13 games to make it to the NC, where ND only as to play 12. Alabama's top 25 finishing opponents (as of now) are #3, #7, #9, and #19 Notre Dame's top 25 opponents finishing rankings are #8, #11, and #19 --- Come back when you have some relevant arguments to make based on why you think ND will win.
Okay where should i start.
#1 i am NOT claiming ND would smash Bama or Georgia. I personally think it will be a very close game.I was just coming to ND's defense. I was just replying to the post of those people who said Bama or Georgia would smash ND. To those who said it wouldn't even be a close game. To those who thinks Bama's or Georgia schedule was a lot tougher than that of ND.With that being said and hopefully cleared. Let's correct some of your flaws or maybe just your misinterpretations of my posts.
#2. Since you like to bring up stats of a purdue or miami or byu etc. That those teams are 7-5 or 6-6. Why don't try looking at it in a different angle? Are you saying those teams turn out to be a bust at the end of the season just based on their record?
So let's just say if we took out Notre Dame from these teams schedule and replace it with umm Western Carolina. Is it safe to say everyone ND played would have one less loss and one more win? So let's have a rundown of how these teams record would look like if we replaced ND with Western Carolina.
Navy instead of 7-4 would be 8-3
Purdue 7-5
Michigan St 7-5
Michigan 9-3
Miami 8-4
WF 6-6
Stanford 11-1
Byu 8-4
OU 10-1
Pitts 6-5
BC 3-9
USC 8-4
There does that look better now? It's a damn fact that ND's schedule is far damn more superior then that of Georgia's or Bama.
Please try and tell me that these teams (5-6, 6-6, 7-5) are in any way of the same caliber as the only two close games of Alabama in #7 LSU (10-2) and #9 TAMU (10-2). The closest game next to these two for Alabama, as stated before, was a 19 point differential win
I have no idea why you brought this in because i wasn't comparing Bama's 2 tough games to ND whole schedule. I was just pointing out the fact that Bama had two tough games and barely winning one and lost the other. I never said or even came close to saying those 5-6 6-6 teams were in the same class of LSU or aTm. But they are DEFINATELY much better than Bama's or Georgia's cupcakes and bottom feeders of the SEC. Minus Boston College tho. They're horrible.
More fun facts:
Notre Dame's scoring in all games 321-124 and Alabama 468-106
Alabama has to play 13 games to make it to the NC, where ND only as to play 12.
Alabama's top 25 finishing opponents (as of now) are #3, #7, #9, and #19
Notre Dame's top 25 opponents finishing rankings are #8, #11, and #19
Ya but Bama could afford to lose a game and still make it to the NCG whereas ND has to win all of those games.
Shoot i gtg will edit this later.
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Comparing by points and statistics are stupid. People say Alabama beat Michigan 41-14 and Notre Dame only beat Michigan 13-6. They make the same argument for the trash teams both teams played, Alabama blew out their trash teams and Notre Dame barely beat them. So Alabama will blow out Notre Dame. So following that logic, Oregon who blew out Oregon State 48-24 should beat Stanford who only beat them 27-23. Oregon also beat Arizona 49-0 at home while Stanford beat them in OT 54-48 at home. So Oregon should blow out Stanford.... oh wait.
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United States22883 Posts
That is the stupidest exercise I've ever seen. This is getting pathetic.
Part of the reason you don't compare records is that there's more polarization in the SEC on account of there being several more top teams than in other conferences. If each SEC sub-division has two high level teams and the B1G sub-divisions only contain one high level team, then the chance of a bad team going winless in the SEC is significantly higher than a bad team going winless in the B1G. How a 6-6 B1G record translates between the ACC/Pacwhatever/SEC is impossible to know.
Second, you can conduct the exact same stupidity with BC on Alabama's schedule, and in both cases it tells you absolutely nothing.
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United States22883 Posts
On November 30 2012 11:25 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Comparing by points and statistics are stupid. People say Alabama beat Michigan 41-14 and Notre Dame only beat Michigan 13-6. They make the same argument for the trash teams both teams played, Alabama blew out their trash teams and Notre Dame barely beat them. So Alabama will blow out Notre Dame. So following that logic, Oregon who blew out Oregon State 48-24 should beat Stanford who only beat them 27-23. Oregon also beat Arizona 49-0 at home while Stanford beat them in OT 54-48 at home. So Oregon should blow out Stanford.... oh wait.
It's as close of a comparison as you can possibly have until the two teams play each other. There is no other comparison that comes closer. It's certainly better than comparing results between unrelated opponents.
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On November 30 2012 11:32 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:25 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Comparing by points and statistics are stupid. People say Alabama beat Michigan 41-14 and Notre Dame only beat Michigan 13-6. They make the same argument for the trash teams both teams played, Alabama blew out their trash teams and Notre Dame barely beat them. So Alabama will blow out Notre Dame. So following that logic, Oregon who blew out Oregon State 48-24 should beat Stanford who only beat them 27-23. Oregon also beat Arizona 49-0 at home while Stanford beat them in OT 54-48 at home. So Oregon should blow out Stanford.... oh wait. It's as close of a comparison as you can possibly have until the two teams play each other. There is no other comparison that comes closer.
Yet it has still been shown to be a weak predictor of match outcomes. another example is Alabama vs the aggies. Auburn: Alabama wins 49-0 while A&M wins 63-21. Ole Miss: Alabama wins 33-14, A&M 30-27. Similar cases of Arkansas and Mississippi St. Despite this, A&M beat Alabama instead at Alabama. UGA beat Florida 17-9, South Carolina lost to Florida 11-44. Despite this, South Carolina beat UGA 35-7. Comparing teams played may be the closest thing, but ultimately says very little about the direction of a game.
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United States22883 Posts
Fair enough. We will just see on the 7th when our SEC overlords get their 7th in a row. Everyone blame Oregon.
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Indeed, playing the game itself is the only way to know. I'm rooting for the UGA to beat Alabama. However, it gets interesting as I am from Georgia but attend Notre Dame. Its a tough choice except for the fact I want Alabama to lose.
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On November 30 2012 09:20 Jibba wrote:
No, it's really not. It was a bad USC team when Barkley had them at 7-4. It was just a bad team when you put a freshman QB in charge.
zip zop zippity doo
+ Show Spoiler +
I know it's not what you were talking about at all but I couldn't stop myself.
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On November 30 2012 11:25 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Comparing by points and statistics are stupid. People say Alabama beat Michigan 41-14 and Notre Dame only beat Michigan 13-6. They make the same argument for the trash teams both teams played, Alabama blew out their trash teams and Notre Dame barely beat them. So Alabama will blow out Notre Dame. So following that logic, Oregon who blew out Oregon State 48-24 should beat Stanford who only beat them 27-23. Oregon also beat Arizona 49-0 at home while Stanford beat them in OT 54-48 at home. So Oregon should blow out Stanford.... oh wait.
Exactly. Obviously atokada doesn't get this.
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On November 30 2012 12:55 Damiani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:25 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Comparing by points and statistics are stupid. People say Alabama beat Michigan 41-14 and Notre Dame only beat Michigan 13-6. They make the same argument for the trash teams both teams played, Alabama blew out their trash teams and Notre Dame barely beat them. So Alabama will blow out Notre Dame. So following that logic, Oregon who blew out Oregon State 48-24 should beat Stanford who only beat them 27-23. Oregon also beat Arizona 49-0 at home while Stanford beat them in OT 54-48 at home. So Oregon should blow out Stanford.... oh wait. Exactly. Obviously atokada doesn't get this.
Care to side-bet the NCG game? SEC>ND?
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On November 30 2012 13:20 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 12:55 Damiani wrote:On November 30 2012 11:25 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Comparing by points and statistics are stupid. People say Alabama beat Michigan 41-14 and Notre Dame only beat Michigan 13-6. They make the same argument for the trash teams both teams played, Alabama blew out their trash teams and Notre Dame barely beat them. So Alabama will blow out Notre Dame. So following that logic, Oregon who blew out Oregon State 48-24 should beat Stanford who only beat them 27-23. Oregon also beat Arizona 49-0 at home while Stanford beat them in OT 54-48 at home. So Oregon should blow out Stanford.... oh wait. Exactly. Obviously atokada doesn't get this. Care to side-bet the NCG game? SEC>ND?
Sure how do you want to do it?
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On November 30 2012 12:55 Damiani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:25 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Comparing by points and statistics are stupid. People say Alabama beat Michigan 41-14 and Notre Dame only beat Michigan 13-6. They make the same argument for the trash teams both teams played, Alabama blew out their trash teams and Notre Dame barely beat them. So Alabama will blow out Notre Dame. So following that logic, Oregon who blew out Oregon State 48-24 should beat Stanford who only beat them 27-23. Oregon also beat Arizona 49-0 at home while Stanford beat them in OT 54-48 at home. So Oregon should blow out Stanford.... oh wait. Exactly. Obviously atokada doesn't get this.
It's one piece of the much, much, much larger puzzle. I'm not going to continue this further. We will see a GA/ALA vs ND NCG and we'll just see.
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On November 30 2012 10:54 BloodNinja wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 10:50 Atokad wrote:I think the hole in your argument would be, ND's non ranked opponents would smash Alabama's. Had Alabama played the same teams I think their points for and against would be close to ND's. No. Alabama had no problem against their non-ranked opponents, where as Notre Dame had to go to overtime twice vs. theirs. I'd make a more detailed answer but I'm leaving for the night. That does nothing to address his point. The point was that ND non-ranked opponents were worlds better than Alabama's. How Alabama did against their cupcakes isn't really relevant to that discussion. I.E. one would expect Bama to have better stats as Bama's cupcakes are that much easier the ones ND faced. Edit - Not saying I necessarily agree with the position, just what you provided shows nothing towards you point.
You are right I misread the post, that is a fair and valid point.
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On November 30 2012 13:54 Damiani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 13:20 iGrok wrote:On November 30 2012 12:55 Damiani wrote:On November 30 2012 11:25 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Comparing by points and statistics are stupid. People say Alabama beat Michigan 41-14 and Notre Dame only beat Michigan 13-6. They make the same argument for the trash teams both teams played, Alabama blew out their trash teams and Notre Dame barely beat them. So Alabama will blow out Notre Dame. So following that logic, Oregon who blew out Oregon State 48-24 should beat Stanford who only beat them 27-23. Oregon also beat Arizona 49-0 at home while Stanford beat them in OT 54-48 at home. So Oregon should blow out Stanford.... oh wait. Exactly. Obviously atokada doesn't get this. Care to side-bet the NCG game? SEC>ND? Sure how do you want to do it?
Are you asking for points?
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you know the rules. I don't need the points if you wanna payout more if ND wins straight up. Your move.
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