|
On May 12 2012 11:05 ACIDzap wrote:Show nested quote +The post-game rage
This one is the most inexplicable of all. I can understand being angry with yourself for losing. If I stretch my imagination to when I was 5 years old and couldn't control my temper, I can sort of understand being angry with your opponent for beating you. What I don't understand is why people universally seem to accuse their opponents of being bad players. How does it make any sense to accuse someone who just beat you of being bad? Doesn't that just make you an even worse player I am a diamond Zerg and I lose sometimes and I say that the opponent is bad for a good reason. And its not falsely accused, but rather because I AM better, but I made a simple error or miss-click that cost me the game. It does add to the self-hate aspect when you lose to someone who you KNOW you're better than because of something so silly and unfortunate that doesn't make the other player "better".
You are adorable.
|
I see you have a lot of time to waste on your hands.... You should be happy I do as well as I'll answer all your questions..
Most of this etiquette comes from professional SC:BW, as that was were all this was born. You sincerely misinterpreted everything about the etiquette in itself though, I have to say. For casual and hardcore gamers who aren't progamers, though, it's all really a psychological thing.
First of all, saying gl hf is basically acknowledging that you respect each other and will respect the game in a way (not throwing away games like Naniwa did vs Nestea). The point of it is mutual respect. If I say "gl hf" to my opponent, regardless of what he says, I'm acknowledging that we are playing each other because the ranking system thinks we are of similar skill level and that I will respect him and the game. Whether he responds to it with his own "gl hf" is completely beyond the point, because that's not what matters in the long run.
When the loser gg's, it's simply another way of bowing out of the game. Like you said in Go, you stack the stones on the board, and in chess you knock over your king. But in SC, you can't do that. There is no physical way of saying "I quit", because it's a video game. The term "gg" means good game. But contextually, it just means "I surrender." There's nothing more to it than that. Of course, you can also type in "I surrender" and quit.
You must be incredibly naive if you think someone offensively ggs because they actually think you played a good game and wanted to tell you that. I really don't know what else to tell you.
The victory dance is something that you also completely misunderstood. It's not to poke fun at the player, unless it was specifically for revenge (Much vs FBH). It's to provide entertainment to the fans and give players more flair and character so that the fans would be even more supportive of them.
Post game rage is the simplest thing to explain... Why do people get mad when they lose a basketball game? A baseball game? In fact, why do people get mad when they lose in anything? It's because of our competitive drive. What is the easiest thing to blame when you lose to someone else? To blame that person.
|
The salutation
Good luck have fun is RTS culture. It is good sportsmanship. It recognizes that the game is for fun, you don't have all your ego invested in the win, you can be fine win or lose. It has nothing to do with luck as far as blind counters, perhaps you should look up the phrase "Wishing your opponent luck." Your entire conversation on salutations betrays a gross misunderstanding of salutations in general.
The resignation
The loser is supposed to resign the game by proclaiming that it was a good game. That seems completely self-congratulatory to me. Your opponent won, so there's no question that he played well; by proclaiming a good game you're saying "you win, but I played well enough to make it a good game"
You are congratulating your opponent on a job well done. It is good manners to give your opponent, should he conduct himself well (no cursing, unfriendly taunting) to give him a pat on the back. It doubles as a clue to admit defeat. "You won, you played well / carried yourself well, I admit defeat" all wrapped up in one.
Victory dance is just for fun (obviously). Rage is bad manner so its connotations are very well understood.
I mean a lot of people come into a sport, new profession, hobby without knowing its customs. Would I go into acting, hear "Break a leg!," and immediately start a discussion about how that convention is dumb and why the HELL would anybody seriously do that? Those retards! NO!. Come in, learn the sayings, and accept them. I've been glhf since the late 90's. It is totally foreign to me how newcomers would even think its a strange thing, apart from normal in any way shape or form. We show good sportsmanship because that's what well groomed people do.
Pack the fake-analysis and stow it. Or go through life criticizing every common gesture (OMG Men opening a door for a woman? That's so misogynist! WTF he's waving me through? He should just say you can go through how pointless!) and get some quizzical looks in return (and wear out your welcome).
|
On May 12 2012 11:24 pirsq wrote:I got 16. What does that mean? It doesn't give a scale. Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 11:19 sam!zdat wrote:On May 12 2012 11:02 kerpal wrote:
Also, 'victory dance' is a demonstration that you're so much better that you could beat them without all the extra money, I don't remember ever seeing a pro get it wrong and lose despite it. It's showmanship and entertainment. There was a gsl game in which the players took turns dancing their way out of a victory. Hippocleides doesn't care. MarineKing vs Bomber at the GSTL finals, the game after the drop incident. Bomber drops a mule in MarineKing's base and loses 5 minutes later.
The original:
Watch Losira vs Bomber.
edit: this'll give you a bit of it
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCGQKuYd8t0
|
On May 12 2012 11:02 kerpal wrote:
Also, 'victory dance' is a demonstration that you're so much better that you could beat them without all the extra money, I don't remember ever seeing a pro get it wrong and lose despite it.
Losira vs st_bomber
Losirs gets owned after dancing his ling.
also, i feel that manner mules should not be considered as bm.
|
Losira vs Bomber was the match I thought of immediately after reading this. lol I agree only because of that game xD
|
On May 12 2012 13:34 EienShinwa wrote:
You must be incredibly naive if you think someone offensively ggs because they actually think you played a good game and wanted to tell you that. I really don't know what else to tell you.
Do you really think anyone is that naive? It's not about what they intend to say, it's about what those words actually mean. In any other game, if the winner goes to the loser in the dying seconds of the game when it's clearly over and says "good game", that's a polite condolence to a worthy adversary.
It's supposed to be a point-out-the-contradictions humour piece, rather than an actual cry for help in understanding the etiquette. Lighten up.
|
I can't think of any sport (real sport not computer game), where an opponent saying good game before the game is over wouldn't result in some serious shit being started, same for video games, the community isn't like that.
As for the OP, I agree its silly, but I still say 'glhf' and all that because people actually get butthurt and will talk shit (so much for GM right?)
|
On May 12 2012 15:24 Megaliskuu wrote:
I can't think of any sport (real sport not computer game), where an opponent saying good game before the game is over wouldn't result in some serious shit being started, same for video games, the community isn't like that.
That's because in real sports, there isn't usually a single defining moment where the game is decided. Games do have those moments. If I'm playing an epic game of chess with someone and we play a complicated sequence that somehow ends up with me in a clearly unwinnable position, I think it'd be acceptable for my opponent to say "good game" right there while the game is still technically in progress.
|
On May 12 2012 15:20 pirsq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 13:34 EienShinwa wrote:
You must be incredibly naive if you think someone offensively ggs because they actually think you played a good game and wanted to tell you that. I really don't know what else to tell you. Do you really think anyone is that naive? It's not about what they intend to say, it's about what those words actually mean. In any other game, if the winner goes to the loser in the dying seconds of the game when it's clearly over and says "good game", that's a polite condolence to a worthy adversary.
Not even slightly...
Since people are using sports, in no sport I can think of is that acceptable. Tennis, score is 6-2, 6-1, 5-1 and winning player is on serve 40-15, puts the ball down, goes around the net, shakes the other guy's hand and then goes back and serves the match point. Really? That's not sportsmanlike at all; it's downright condescending. It's over when it's over. Same thing with any standard field game; if a winning basketball or football team stops playing to congratulate the other guys while the clock is still running, that's insanely bad form.
Starcraft and sometimes other computer games are different because it's common to concede before the victory conditions are fulfilled, but conceding is solely a task for the loser. You play the game out and you give the loser the dignity to finish it on their terms.
|
On May 12 2012 11:02 kerpal wrote:
Also, 'victory dance' is a demonstration that you're so much better that you could beat them without all the extra money, I don't remember ever seeing a pro get it wrong and lose despite it. It's showmanship and entertainment.
Anyone remember that PvP game on Metalopolis. Was some foreigner vs MC. The foreigner basically danced his zealots after breaking MC's ramp. Then got owned by dts lol
|
"gl hf" = I'm a part of the gaming community and I wish we play a good game and act friendly.
"gg wp" = I'm a part of the gaming community and I enjoyed the game.
That's what it actually means. If you take it too literally you just don't get it yet. You will encounter similar phrases in almost every sport/game.
|
On May 12 2012 15:35 pirsq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:24 Megaliskuu wrote:
I can't think of any sport (real sport not computer game), where an opponent saying good game before the game is over wouldn't result in some serious shit being started, same for video games, the community isn't like that. That's because in real sports, there isn't usually a single defining moment where the game is decided. Games do have those moments. If I'm playing an epic game of chess with someone and we play a complicated sequence that somehow ends up with me in a clearly unwinnable position, I think it'd be acceptable for my opponent to say "good game" right there while the game is still technically in progress.
If someone said that to me during a chessmatch I would flip over the table. Seriously, that would be very, VERY condescending to me. It is very good manners to tell me it was a good game AFTER I resigned, my opponent is then telling me that I played well. If he says Good Game before I have resigned though, that is very offensive.
|
On May 12 2012 13:14 Azera wrote:
If you lost because of a mis-click, you're actually still worse.
One mistake does not mean that you're instantly worse than the other. It just means you made a mistake which everyone does. I once played a Korean where I had better macro, control etc but I missed the sound of a nuke when I went for a round of injects, making the mistake of not having my army on watch in time. Lost the majority of my army and thus the game. Never happened again after that.
|
OP: "beep boop why do people wish each other good luck? i am a robot i do not understand human feelings beep boop. tell me more about this "rage" you meatbags are experiencing. beep boop."
|
On May 12 2012 13:40 Danglars wrote:
You are congratulating your opponent on a job well done. It is good manners to give your opponent, should he conduct himself well (no cursing, unfriendly taunting) to give him a pat on the back. It doubles as a clue to admit defeat. "You won, you played well / carried yourself well, I admit defeat" all wrapped up in one.
I do not think you see the problem.
Most players when they are about to lose feel pretty bad and try to figure out what they can do to take matters in their hands, or what they can do better next time. A lot of the players at high end tournaments would find this rude as you're basicly taunting them. If you don't feel that way that's your situation but a majority of the players views pre-mature GG very rude. It only acts to imply the game is over, and mentally screw up your opponent. THAT is the problem here.
Edit:
Often when people offensive GG, the rage in me pushes me to squeeze a very tight win out of it, or a very minimal loss leaving these arrogant and ignorant a-holes silent.
|
50% true + 50% funny = awesome post! I don't think it's a very serious post guys, stop raging and trying to prove him wrong. Just enjoy the reading!
|
The salutation:
It's just nice. Every sport has something like this. If you dont wish to wish your opponent luck then say something different. "hfhf" "hi hf" or even "Hello, let's play a good game! And let's have fun!".
The resignation:
It's basically the same. Say whatever you want. But it's normal to concede and not just leave in real sports.
And I dont think the Go example is a good one.
Leaving a SC2 game without saying something would be equal to you just standing up and leaving. Not saying a word / doing an illegal move which is accepted as a concede.
The victory claim:
Hmm I basically agree. But I doubt that many people would scream foul if the loser left with saying "grats" and the winner THEN saying "gg".
The problem is with claiming victory. You just shouldnt do it.
The victory dance & post game rage:
Agreed.
Overall it's just a matter of respecting your opponent. Acknowledging that it's just a game & competition. A fair comparison of skill (where everything which is allowed by the rules is allowed)
About the "I made a misclick" "I had bad macro" so "it wasnt a good game":
As long as it wasnt a technical problem (mouse/kb not responding) what's stopping the opponent to say:
"Well, I also misclicked a lot. And I had bad macro. Looks like we both lack in those things BUT I was the superior player in everything else or I wouldnt have won".
Also a misclick is a lack of focus / precision / control in a high tension moment. You failed to play good in a high pressure moment. Your opponent was able to force you into a situation where you experienced high pressure. He forced the error.
Forcing your opponent to make errors is a valid strategy to win.
|
On May 12 2012 21:03 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 13:14 Azera wrote:
If you lost because of a mis-click, you're actually still worse. One mistake does not mean that you're instantly worse than the other. It just means you made a mistake which everyone does. I once played a Korean where I had better macro, control etc but I missed the sound of a nuke when I went for a round of injects, making the mistake of not having my army on watch in time. Lost the majority of my army and thus the game. Never happened again after that.
So in the end you still made a mistake and lost...
|
You aren't getting the point that i was trying to get across. The mistakes I am tlaking about are only in very game-specific scenario. Like, exploding ur banelings in a ZvZ early game, move commanding your army and thinking you A-clicked (Terran or Toss), or even something like accidentally screwing up hotkeys to one thing thus making all hatches and queens to become unhotkeyed. These are mistakes that can happen and BLOW the entire game in less than a second if they occur at the right moment. I know that accidentally messing up hotkeys is something that I do all the time and I still don't understand how i get my army onto all my hotkeys, but it happens and when it happens at the wrong time at the wrong palce, you lose.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
