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On February 10 2012 06:13 falafelnr1 wrote: Can't understand how people think a system where all players in group doesn't have to play each other can be more fair than this.
i agree, this doesnt make any sense oO
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On February 10 2012 06:11 MrCash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 06:03 sVnteen wrote:On February 10 2012 05:55 MrCash wrote:On February 10 2012 05:53 00Visor wrote:On February 10 2012 05:47 MrCash wrote: Again, people still don't understand how this silly group stages go, this needs to go away. There is still a chance slivko and snute both have a better score than ret, even though slivko already lost to ret. Then it boils down to what is more important, map score or who beat who? If slivko goes 5-3 and Ret ends up 4-3, SHOULD slivko still go down? If so, why should he even try vs dakkon? If not, how the hell is that fair to Ret that he beat someone, but they advanced because he won vs Dakkon, he actually had no incentive to try either? Silly group system is silly.
tl;dr: Double elimination group stages ala GSL not silly at all if snute beats Ret its Snute > Ret > Slivko > Snute So every player beat another one, but one has to go down. Why is mapscore not fair then? Because it's not Snute > Ret > Slivo > Snute, but rather Slivko > Ret because he beat Dakkon 2-0 who's results didn't matter anymore (even though Slivko might win 2-0 if he played earlier just as easily). Assuming Ret gets 2-0ed by Snute. i dont get your point at all -.- if ret lost to snute and ALMOST LOST to slivko and wins vs dakkon why is it unfair if he goes down? because slivko beat snute and ALMOST WON vs ret and wins vs dakkon (so he has better map score) and snute won vs dakkon and ALMOST WON vs slivko and might win vs ret so he would have better map score as well (if he wins 2-0 at least i think if he goes 2-1 they are equal) I dont get why you are saying that this would be unfair (you mean just because dakkon has no reason to try anymore? because that is a) not true because he wants to proof himself at an international tournament at his home country and b) he would most likely go down 2-0 anyways as you said) I made that pretty clear. You can't simply look at who beat who, by how many maps. If you take the names out of the equation, maybe it can eliminate some bias. Player 1 wins first 2 bo3. Player 4 lost first 2 bo3 - He is out 100%. Player 2 and 3 are in limbo. If player 3 Beats player 4, when player 4 has nothing to gain (think Naniwa), and knocks out Player 1, is that fair? Other way to look at it: 3 Player go 2-1 in their 3 bo3. The 1 played his bo3 first, and went 5-3. The 2 played his bo3 2nd and went 5-2. The 3 played his bo3 last went 5-1, because he played an opponent who was out and didn't care to play. 1 beat 3, 1 is still out. The point is, the best player doesn't move on, the player who got the most map wins, for non-consistent reasons, advances. Thats a good point as well. Maybe GSL system is ok GSL, because player skills are somewhat equal. But in a tournamen like IEM where player skills within one group are that different it would be terrible.
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I see Bisu's hair on snute's head
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mr.cash is way to stupid to understand the most simple format ever
User was warned for this post
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..and he won the match by bling-busting
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On February 10 2012 06:11 MrCash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 06:03 sVnteen wrote:On February 10 2012 05:55 MrCash wrote:On February 10 2012 05:53 00Visor wrote:On February 10 2012 05:47 MrCash wrote: Again, people still don't understand how this silly group stages go, this needs to go away. There is still a chance slivko and snute both have a better score than ret, even though slivko already lost to ret. Then it boils down to what is more important, map score or who beat who? If slivko goes 5-3 and Ret ends up 4-3, SHOULD slivko still go down? If so, why should he even try vs dakkon? If not, how the hell is that fair to Ret that he beat someone, but they advanced because he won vs Dakkon, he actually had no incentive to try either? Silly group system is silly.
tl;dr: Double elimination group stages ala GSL not silly at all if snute beats Ret its Snute > Ret > Slivko > Snute So every player beat another one, but one has to go down. Why is mapscore not fair then? Because it's not Snute > Ret > Slivo > Snute, but rather Slivko > Ret because he beat Dakkon 2-0 who's results didn't matter anymore (even though Slivko might win 2-0 if he played earlier just as easily). Assuming Ret gets 2-0ed by Snute. i dont get your point at all -.- if ret lost to snute and ALMOST LOST to slivko and wins vs dakkon why is it unfair if he goes down? because slivko beat snute and ALMOST WON vs ret and wins vs dakkon (so he has better map score) and snute won vs dakkon and ALMOST WON vs slivko and might win vs ret so he would have better map score as well (if he wins 2-0 at least i think if he goes 2-1 they are equal) I dont get why you are saying that this would be unfair (you mean just because dakkon has no reason to try anymore? because that is a) not true because he wants to proof himself at an international tournament at his home country and b) he would most likely go down 2-0 anyways as you said) The 1 played his bo3 first, and went 5-3. The 2 played his bo3 2nd and went 5-2. The 3 played his bo3 last went 5-1, because he played an opponent who was out and didn't care to play. 1 beat 3, 1 is still out.
OK. You could have made the point clear a bit earlier . It`s right that this is a problem of round robin. But in this case Dakkon seems to be way behind in skill of the other players (+ he wants to show the local crowd not too bad games), so this isn't something to complain about this time.
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ESL system is the fairest possible way.
But GSL system is more exciting for the viewer.
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On February 10 2012 06:18 fabiano wrote: I see Bisu's hair on snute's head I don't, though snute has great hair
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On February 10 2012 06:17 Vadrigar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 06:11 MrCash wrote:On February 10 2012 06:03 sVnteen wrote:On February 10 2012 05:55 MrCash wrote:On February 10 2012 05:53 00Visor wrote:On February 10 2012 05:47 MrCash wrote: Again, people still don't understand how this silly group stages go, this needs to go away. There is still a chance slivko and snute both have a better score than ret, even though slivko already lost to ret. Then it boils down to what is more important, map score or who beat who? If slivko goes 5-3 and Ret ends up 4-3, SHOULD slivko still go down? If so, why should he even try vs dakkon? If not, how the hell is that fair to Ret that he beat someone, but they advanced because he won vs Dakkon, he actually had no incentive to try either? Silly group system is silly.
tl;dr: Double elimination group stages ala GSL not silly at all if snute beats Ret its Snute > Ret > Slivko > Snute So every player beat another one, but one has to go down. Why is mapscore not fair then? Because it's not Snute > Ret > Slivo > Snute, but rather Slivko > Ret because he beat Dakkon 2-0 who's results didn't matter anymore (even though Slivko might win 2-0 if he played earlier just as easily). Assuming Ret gets 2-0ed by Snute. i dont get your point at all -.- if ret lost to snute and ALMOST LOST to slivko and wins vs dakkon why is it unfair if he goes down? because slivko beat snute and ALMOST WON vs ret and wins vs dakkon (so he has better map score) and snute won vs dakkon and ALMOST WON vs slivko and might win vs ret so he would have better map score as well (if he wins 2-0 at least i think if he goes 2-1 they are equal) I dont get why you are saying that this would be unfair (you mean just because dakkon has no reason to try anymore? because that is a) not true because he wants to proof himself at an international tournament at his home country and b) he would most likely go down 2-0 anyways as you said) I made that pretty clear. You can't simply look at who beat who, by how many maps. If you take the names out of the equation, maybe it can eliminate some bias. Player 1 wins first 2 bo3. Player 4 lost first 2 bo3 - He is out 100%. Player 2 and 3 are in limbo. If player 3 Beats player 4, when player 4 has nothing to gain (think Naniwa), and knocks out Player 1, is that fair? Other way to look at it: 3 Player go 2-1 in their 3 bo3. The 1 played his bo3 first, and went 5-3. The 2 played his bo3 2nd and went 5-2. The 3 played his bo3 last went 5-1, because he played an opponent who was out and didn't care to play. 1 beat 3, 1 is still out. The point is, the best player doesn't move on, the player who got the most map wins, for non-consistent reasons, advances. dude, just stop. You DON'T GET it. Player 1,2 and 3 beat 4 2:0. Player 1 beats 2- 2:1 Player 3 beats 1- 2:1 Player 2 beats 3- 2:0 1 and 2 advance. THAT was the scenario, but it won't happen because Ret will roll Snute. I think his point is that matches happen at different times and this affects the outcome somewhat, which is fair criticism.
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On February 10 2012 06:22 dmnum wrote:I don't, thought snute has great hair You're saying Bisu doesn't have great hair?
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that was a huge bling hit
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On February 10 2012 06:24 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 06:22 dmnum wrote:On February 10 2012 06:18 fabiano wrote: I see Bisu's hair on snute's head I don't, though snute has great hair You're saying Bisu doesn't have great hair? Oh the difference one letter makes. I meant though, not thought. Both have great hair but bisu is longer.
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Ret kills another player for over-droning... It's opposite day or something.
Go Ret! Great job dude!
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Ret took a year of experience of being killed for overdroning and now does it to everyone else.
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On February 10 2012 06:27 pred470r wrote: Game ends, stream dies.
It's fine for me.
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Jeez - Brazilian players 1-16 now.
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On February 10 2012 06:27 garbanzo wrote: Ret kills another player for over-droning... It's opposite day or something.
Go Ret! Great job dude!
Considering he generaly is so passive, players might feel over confident in droning against Ret.
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On February 10 2012 06:28 greycubed wrote: Jeez - Brazilian players 1-16 now. Lamp, Reason and Fortune didnt play the qualifers. Lamp recently beat Dragon, Drewbie, etc Reason beat Macsed and Fortune is an awesome player (you can check out his liquipedia page)
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gg for Ret, glad he got first in his group.
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