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On February 05 2012 15:44 RezChi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 03:34 SeaSwift wrote: Well, I guess Hero is going to get ROFLSTOMPED again. huehuehue
I'm amazed as well! Happy, though. Not for Hero so much as for MC. Even if Jjakji didn't want to reveal his strategies, he still should have crushed Hero in a straight up series. $500 is enough to actually try to win the series, even if he doesn't try as hard as for GSL.
Of course X > Y and Y > Z doesn't always mean X > Z in Sc2 terms, but I think it's safe to say that if Jjakji plays MC like he played against Hero, he will get slaughtered.
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On February 05 2012 19:48 double620 wrote:How about SlayersCoCa? that would be the third slayers player...
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On February 05 2012 20:29 GoSuChicken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 19:48 double620 wrote:On February 05 2012 19:26 Devolved wrote: Stephano next please^^ How about SlayersCoCa? that would be the third slayers player...
Did casters say who will be next for Hero next week?
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On February 05 2012 19:11 double620 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder. Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls. actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S.
Being high in ladder doesnt mean youre gonna win GSLs but it does mean that youre damn good. If you look at the other guys in top 10 (out of those whose names are recognizable to non koreans..) you dont find random noobies, you find nestea, gsl champ, polt, gsl champ, Marine King, gsl 2nd place and aLive, who is destroying people in GSL atm.
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On February 05 2012 20:32 double620 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 20:29 GoSuChicken wrote:On February 05 2012 19:48 double620 wrote:On February 05 2012 19:26 Devolved wrote: Stephano next please^^ How about SlayersCoCa? that would be the third slayers player... Did casters say who will be next for Hero next week? Dimaga, after the IEM games it will be awesome
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YEAH HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On February 05 2012 20:36 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 19:11 double620 wrote:On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder. Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls. actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S.
Nestea has a worse winrate on ladder even if it is true he played as many games as Hero does on ladder? So what !! Almost every codeS player if not all of them would agree that Nestea is top 3 zerg in the world while I doubt if there is any codeS player would tell u that Hero is top 3 toss in Korea. Last week oGs playing zenex on tv, they were in danger of losing because of zenex extreme played so well there and then Supernova came out to win it for the team. Supervona's ladder account shows he is like top 50 in master league Korea, so why did ogs not use Hero who is top 3 in GM?
DRG would try to convince Nestea not picking him but would he do the same to Hero? Nestea crushed players like Polt and ASD and stays in codeS easily while Hero losing to them and struggled badly in the up and down. Keep trying to convince ppl Hero is the best toss in the world while at the same time we were seeing Mc got his best toss player award and Huk got his most improved toss award from gomtv.
Creator on the other hand in my opinion is playing simply better than Hero and he is also able to show that he can win a lot for his team in the teamleague in Korea. Well, Mc has left oGs and we will see if Hero can take Mc's role and back his team up in Korea.
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On February 05 2012 20:36 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 19:11 double620 wrote:On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder. Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls. actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S. Being high in ladder doesnt mean youre gonna win GSLs but it does mean that youre damn good. If you look at the other guys in top 10 (out of those whose names are recognizable to non koreans..) you dont find random noobies, you find nestea, gsl champ, polt, gsl champ, Marine King, gsl 2nd place and aLive, who is destroying people in GSL atm. Omg...seriously one online showmatch win and we're back to this crap. "hero is best toss watch his stream!!!!!!!!!!!!" It's pointless to argue because all of your arguments are either subjective or meaningless, that being his ladder rankings and watching his stream. Go by actual results, where Hero is constantly eliminated in group stages by foreigners and you just get the nerves excuse.
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Vile-Illusion would be a good choice too I think. Not sure if they've let Coca out of his cage yet though :x
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On February 05 2012 21:06 Devolved wrote: Vile-Illusion would be a good choice too I think. Not sure if they've let Coca out of his cage yet though :x
I want to see more toss wins in tournaments but at the same time I really miss Coca's zvp. So sad we can not see him play for such a long time. PPl keep saying how strong those toss timing in pvz are and zerg can not beat toss. But man, coca, non of those timings work against him. He is like that good.
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On February 05 2012 20:57 Olinimm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 20:36 7mk wrote:On February 05 2012 19:11 double620 wrote:On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder. Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls. actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S. Being high in ladder doesnt mean youre gonna win GSLs but it does mean that youre damn good. If you look at the other guys in top 10 (out of those whose names are recognizable to non koreans..) you dont find random noobies, you find nestea, gsl champ, polt, gsl champ, Marine King, gsl 2nd place and aLive, who is destroying people in GSL atm. Omg...seriously one online showmatch win and we're back to this crap. "hero is best toss watch his stream!!!!!!!!!!!!" It's pointless to argue because all of your arguments are either subjective or meaningless, that being his ladder rankings and watching his stream. Go by actual results, where Hero is constantly eliminated in group stages by foreigners and you just get the nerves excuse.
If I really wanted to I could give you a long full game analysis of the games he plays which would show why he's so good and would be far from subjective.
To you and double620, calm down man, I wasn't really saying he's the best toss in the world cause the "if" is a big one, I already aid that it doesnt really matter as long as he doesnt show results, I'm just talking about his potential to win because of you look at his raw skill while practicing it's clearly there. If you think nerves is a shitty excuse thats not bound to reality then ask yourself why your godly MC was so bad he had a 10% win ratio in Pro League, even though he was good in practice.
also double620.. Supernova is the most successful most stable player at OGS atm... wtf, why on earth wouldnt they choose him rofl Also how would you know what code S players think if they consider HerO top3 toss or not... have you asked them?
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On February 05 2012 20:56 double620 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 20:36 7mk wrote:On February 05 2012 19:11 double620 wrote:On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder. Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls. actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S. Nestea has a worse winrate on ladder even if it is true he played as many games as Hero does on ladder? So what !! Almost every codeS player if not all of them would agree that Nestea is top 3 zerg in the world while I doubt if there is any codeS player would tell u that Hero is top 3 toss in Korea. Last week oGs playing zenex on tv, they were in danger of losing because of zenex extreme played so well there and then Supernova came out to win it for the team. Supervona's ladder account shows he is like top 50 in master league Korea, so why did ogs not use Hero who is top 3 in GM? DRG would try to convince Nestea not picking him but would he do the same to Hero? Nestea crushed players like Polt and ASD and stays in codeS easily while Hero losing to them and struggled badly in the up and down. Keep trying to convince ppl Hero is the best toss in the world while at the same time we were seeing Mc got his best toss player award and Huk got his most improved toss award from gomtv. Creator on the other hand in my opinion is playing simply better than Hero and he is also able to show that he can win a lot for his team in the teamleague in Korea. Well, Mc has left oGs and we will see if Hero can take Mc's role and back his team up in Korea. Creator is really interesting because he does not seem to have any kind of issues with being under pressure, at least in team leagues. He has been used as ace to good effect so far; at least in the matches I saw, he seems not to falter in hard situations. I am under the impression that, in a relatively underdeveloped scene, good nerves can actually count more than raw talent/micro/macro.
That said, I am really unhappy that Code A RO48 is Creator vs Polt ._. Neither of them deserves to be Code B, really. I will be sad either way. =(
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On February 05 2012 21:26 WigglingSquid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 20:56 double620 wrote:On February 05 2012 20:36 7mk wrote:On February 05 2012 19:11 double620 wrote:On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder. Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls. actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S. Nestea has a worse winrate on ladder even if it is true he played as many games as Hero does on ladder? So what !! Almost every codeS player if not all of them would agree that Nestea is top 3 zerg in the world while I doubt if there is any codeS player would tell u that Hero is top 3 toss in Korea. Last week oGs playing zenex on tv, they were in danger of losing because of zenex extreme played so well there and then Supernova came out to win it for the team. Supervona's ladder account shows he is like top 50 in master league Korea, so why did ogs not use Hero who is top 3 in GM? DRG would try to convince Nestea not picking him but would he do the same to Hero? Nestea crushed players like Polt and ASD and stays in codeS easily while Hero losing to them and struggled badly in the up and down. Keep trying to convince ppl Hero is the best toss in the world while at the same time we were seeing Mc got his best toss player award and Huk got his most improved toss award from gomtv. Creator on the other hand in my opinion is playing simply better than Hero and he is also able to show that he can win a lot for his team in the teamleague in Korea. Well, Mc has left oGs and we will see if Hero can take Mc's role and back his team up in Korea. Creator is really interesting because he does not seem to have any kind of issues with being under pressure, at least in team leagues. He has been used as ace to good effect so far; at least in the matches I saw, he seems not to falter in hard situations. I am under the impression that, in a relatively underdeveloped scene, good nerves can actually count more than raw talent/micro/macro. That said, I am really unhappy that Code A RO48 is Creator vs Polt ._. Neither of them deserves to be Code B, really. I will be sad either way. =(
omg, they are both team aces for their team and one of them will be out of gsl. Creator!!!! Last time in CodeA, he needed to face mvp and now polt ! This sucks especially consider that they were teammates in the past. Why don't they use groups in CodeA?
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On February 05 2012 14:04 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 13:49 wklbishop wrote:On February 05 2012 13:21 Bagration wrote:On February 05 2012 13:03 dragonborn wrote:On February 05 2012 13:00 Phobbers wrote:On February 05 2012 12:54 dragonborn wrote:On February 05 2012 12:43 Wroshe wrote:On February 05 2012 12:26 dragonborn wrote:On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals. Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals??????? Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu. Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought. Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL. Groupstage 1 Group 2 RO8 RO4 Finals Leenock: Ganzi/Polt/Ensnare | MMA/HuK/Nestea | aLive -> Mvp -> Jjakji ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oz: CoCa/TaeJa/NaDa | aLive/Killer/Happy | MMA -> Jjakji -> Leenock Mvp: aLive/Marineking/Curious | Jjakji/GuMiho/CoCa | sC -> Leenock -> Jjakji ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MMA: MC/Ryung/YuGiOh | Leenock/HuK/NesTea | Oz -> Jjakji -> Leenock Puzzle: HuK/July/Clide | sC/MC/GanZi | Jjakji -> Oz -> Leenock aLive: Mvp/Marineking/Curious | Oz/Killer/Happy | Leenock -> Mvp -> Jjakji sC: NesTea/LosirA/asd | Puzzle/MC/GanZi | Mvp -> Leenock -> Jjakji Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others. very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament. whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA. still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest. Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats. GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all. At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something. Also jjakji is known for his weak TvT. It does. But I think it is still more due to MVP playing poorly than Gumiho playing extraordinarily well. Hell, one game MVP pushed out and realized that he forgot siege mode. Siege mode man! Most people don't realize that Gumiho's style is one of multitasking that forces your opponent to work as much as you are and it just forces mistakes because you end up worn out by everything. However, it makes Gumiho look sloppy because he's doing so much and when you do so much, it's impossible to do everything well. It's actually a lot like MMA who you'll notice fucks up here and there and gets massively behind but at the same time can make someone like Nestea look bad. But MMA controls everything much better; his drops are controlled well, his battle micro (tanks target-fire, marine split etc.) is impeccable and his reaction time is also much better. GuMiho is a good player and looks like what MMA was when he first came out, but he still needs to refine everything to be considered a top Terran. MMA's game-sense is also so much better in TvT and controls the game much better, by knowing when to attack, when to drop and when to transition into tanks. It just seems like GuMiho is doing multiple things for the sake of it, rather than planning it to control the game.
The funny thing is, I actually think MMA has been far more consistent in showing his best play against top tier players than MVP, but that doesn't equate to him showing 'better' play overall - he consistently plays his best against the best, but that doesn't mean that the others are consistently playing their best against him. On the flip side, I find MVP to have the most memorable and awe-inspiring games, rather than MMA or Jjakji (last game against TOP in GSL August, where he baited him into a 3-way flank comes to mind).
As for Gumiho's multitasking causing trouble for MVP...CTS. MVP's multitasking is some of the best in the business; he was the one doing 3-4 pronged drops in early 2011, long before MMA made it fashionable in MLG Columbus. You could argue that MMA does it better or has a more distinctive style, but he's pretty much the only player in SC2 who could claim that over MVP. Bomber said MVP's multitasking was far beyond his own when he practiced with him before their Code A Finals.
However, since the middle of 2011, MVP suddenly moved away from that style of play, and started to mech a lot more, and played a much more turtling style in both TvT and TvZ. I'm starting to think that it's due to the CTS in his wrists affecting him more than usual that he toned down the heavy multitasking and micro intensive plays, and aimed for the late-game management style that he was decent at in BW. The problem is, since the mechanical demands of SC2 is lower, the better macro player doesn't necessarily get as much of an advantage in such games anymore, so I think more hectic styles is better in SC2 (DRG, I believe, said the same thing when comparing MMA to MVP).
Edit: I still remember game 3 in the Ro8 of the Korean WCG qualies against Annyeong, where MVP just dropped all over the place. After watching that game, I was thinking...'damn, why doesn't he play like this more often'...then others mentioned CTS, and I thought...oh...
-_-
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IPL has some sick production value...and DoA:D
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On February 05 2012 13:39 naux wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 12:35 dragonborn wrote:On February 05 2012 12:33 naux wrote:On February 05 2012 11:56 dragonborn wrote:On February 05 2012 11:50 naux wrote:On February 05 2012 11:40 Whatson wrote:On February 05 2012 11:38 tree.hugger wrote:On February 05 2012 11:34 Whatson wrote:On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying... That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results. I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make. 500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something 10k people watching this match and they are playing for fame,money isnt everything. money isnt everything? lol you make me laugh.. fame = money so how can you say money isnt everything .. more famous they get more tournaments they get invited to .. what you think most of these sc2 players switch over to get peanuts? no there main objective was to earn MONEY when you get fame,money instantly comes to you. but first: fame. idiot thats what i just said.. you are probably the only person who would trade 1 million dollars for popularity players like Naniwa,HuK already said fame is more important than money in very old interviews.
Destiny,iNcontroL,machine,lzgamer-tell me,what they done in starcraft 2?
nothing.They are in big teams because their marketable name.
also you cant buy fame,you need to earn it.So,your logic is bad as your manner.
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does anyone know when the vods will be up?
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FUCK YES! HERO, I am going to watch the EU restream lol.
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On February 05 2012 22:39 yann wrote: does anyone know when the vods will be up? Probably in 24 hours or so. They'll definatly wait until after the EU Rebroadcast.
Hero-Dimaga should be fun.
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