The time has come for our ninth IGN Pro League Fight Club! This is a weekly king of the hill showmatch series. Basically, there will be a 1 vs. 1 best of 9 showmatch each and every week, where the winner will earn a $500 prize and a $100 bounty on their head. For example, if a player wins three weeks in a row they will have earned $1,500 and a $300 bounty. If a NEW challenger defeats him, they will earn $500 for the showmatch, take the $300 bounty home, and have a new $100 bounty placed on their head for each week that they win. (Similar to IPL Team Arena, but without the teams!)
When: Sunday, Feb 05 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Sunday, Feb 05 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
Last week, Jjakji made a great entrance by knocking off the previous champion, Nerchio, 5-4! The series was much closer than many had anticipated, so it appears that this GSL Code S champion still has something left to prove. This week, Liquid`HerO will try to add IPL Fight Club to his growing resume, which is mostly filled with matches against EG.PuMa. Can the newcomer make his mark, or will Jjakji go on a reign of terror never before seen on IPL Fight Club? You'll have to tune in to see!
On February 03 2012 03:34 SeaSwift wrote: Well, I guess Hero is going to get ROFLSTOMPED again.
See? Like I said, Mc would not accept this one. Hero will be a good test to see how well Jjaji can play TvP now, although I doubt he will play his best and show Mc, Parting how sick good he actually is.
Protoss are kicking all sorts of tail in Korea right now, but Hero is one of the few protoss this side of JYP that seemingly doesn't know how to PvT. That being said Hero hasn't traveled in a while so if he's gotten some good practice time in he could definitely make this a good series.
Oh dear. I wish Hero had an extended break from competitive games so he can focus and rediscover himself as a player instead of being thrown into the fire all the time. Then again, that might be just what he needs.
I'm pretty sure he can beat Jjakji on a good day, but there haven't been many such days.
I can't see HerO winning this, he's pretty poor at korean PvT when it's not Puma. He lose 0-4 to Polt recently in a pretty onesided serie. And Jjakji TvP is still top notch.
Considering that Jjakji will have to fight against MC and/or Parting for his RO16, I expect him not to show part of his TvP strats. I also think that his TvP could be not as good as many people claim it to be, there is not really that much data. If Hero's nerves hold, I expect a 5-3 for Jjakji.
On February 04 2012 02:34 Bumblebee wrote: What happened to people supporting our team and our beloved Liquid` children?! :'(
Market oversaturation. Too much going on. Last night there was IPL, NASL, MLG, Day9tv, and later GSL off the Record all going at once. Later, there was also a GSTL match (great performance by Bomber). Huk and Destiny were also streaming at the same time. Nowadays it is truly hard to keep track of everything.
Honestly, it's going to be tough for Hero, going against a GSL champ. But there have been upsets, and a win is certainly possible
On February 04 2012 02:34 Bumblebee wrote: What happened to people supporting our team and our beloved Liquid` children?! :'(
Oh, I support liquid`, and especially Hero, but I always try to look at each match with a realistic mindset. If HerO does win, wow, I think that would be a great upset. A lot of people posting here seem to agree.
I'm rooting (supporting and hoping) for Hero to win, but I still expect Jjakji to win.
So this will be played on the Korean servers right? Cuz in last week's match you could totally tell that jjakji was really being held back by the lag, didnt get to see any of his amazing micro or sick timings.
On February 04 2012 02:34 Bumblebee wrote: What happened to people supporting our team and our beloved Liquid` children?! :'(
If Hero wasn't on Liquid, Jjakji would be even more of favourite than he is. As it is, I think Hero is gonna win, but only because Fionn hates humanity.
Actually think Hero should win this because there is no way in hell Jjakji will be showing off any of his best builds when he has to play in a group with MC and Parting on Monday.
5-1 Jjakji should win this easy seeing how Polt literally crushed Hero. (Jjakji has the best timed out builds in tvp and tvz imo) I really hope Hero can at least takes 2-3 games...
On February 04 2012 02:34 Bumblebee wrote: What happened to people supporting our team and our beloved Liquid` children?! :'(
To be honest if HerO wasn't on liquid, he probably be forgotten by everyone in the community by now.
Yeah, because we always forget winners of major tournaments such as DreamHack Winter...
o.O
To be fair, he only was at Dreamhack because he was on Liquid.
To be fair he won...
He did win, but did not win against any codeS level player in that tour.
To be fair, I can see Hero win this one since I did not think Jjakji is willing to show his best to Mc and Parting. Not only these tosses in his group, All of toss players left in CodeS represent the best pVt play in the world atm, it is time for codeS terrans to do their best to prepare for their CodeS games. If not, we r not going to see a gomtvt final this season. Haha....
Ihope hero does well, I think mentally this could be a huge shot in the arm, and the conditions seem optimal for him given his propensity for LAN event nerves. That said jjakji is a beast and hero has his work cut out for him...
I don't know, i think it will be close, and i think people who are saying that Jjajkji will walk over HerO are forgetting that HerO is 100% capable of taking down top Code S players. Remember his last MLG? he was beating the likes of Puzzle and Keen. HerO is one of the top ladder's in the world, and is often recognized as one of the worlds best players when he isn't competing in high pressure scenarios.
On February 04 2012 02:34 Bumblebee wrote: What happened to people supporting our team and our beloved Liquid` children?! :'(
To be honest if HerO wasn't on liquid, he probably be forgotten by everyone in the community by now.
Yeah, because we always forget winners of major tournaments such as DreamHack Winter...
o.O
He wouldn't get as much publicity. So? We would forget about Machine if he wasn't on EG. People know Puma more because he is on EG. Few players transcend their team. And Hero isn't one of them. But that doesn't change the fact that I do know about him, and love him now that I do.
fight club is an awesome weekly event.Love castpajamas and doas casting.They have great synergy and they are fun! Even if hero loses i always love to see his sexy control and i wanna see boX TvP from jjakji
I am of the firm belief that a HerO playing at the top of his game stands a decent chance against anyone in a series, and with Jjakjii not wanting to show off any of tricks before his GSL matches I think it should be a great series.
I see this series coming down to whoever wins the first game will be able to set the pace and take it, but I'm just gonna have to tune in to see the action .
I'm hoping to see Hero come away with a win, but there's nothing wrong with losing to a GSL champion. No matter who comes out on top these are surely going to be some awesome games!
Why the Hero hate guys? Kind of sick sticking up for the guy lol. Stylistically has one of the coolest PvZs, and rarely resorts to all-inning his opponents (except for hardcore cheese in PvPs). Actually think he'd benefit from throwing in a few more of those, but he seems reluctant to. I've seen him play some really, really sick harass-based macro PvT games as well, but he doesn't seem to hit that level when he's playing for something important.
Guy has pretty horrendous nerve issues and the gap between his A game and the performances he puts out in tournaments is as big as with any player I have thus seen. He's not a mercenary for plumping to go with Liquid, not all Korean B-teamers are scrubs and it's super difficult to break into even Code A, oh and Hero's actually managed that at the expense of players like DRG and Puma in the past.
TLDR he may be overhyped by fanboys, but he's actually a fucking good player who people seem to want to bash for no apparent reason. Jjakji is a GSL champion so he's got to be the favourite though, gl hf to both players!
I am actually really interested to see IPL's new Player Spotlight. I really want to see some info on how Hyun is and how his transition has been going. Really appreciate IPL for creating so much great content
Predict Jjakji in a fairly one-sided series, but would be happy to be wrong. HerO just seems kind of outmatched in this and the previous (vs. Polt) showmatch. He has flashes of brilliance on camera but sometimes falls flat (probably due to nerves, but still), and I don't think it'll be enough to beat a Code S champion with a very strong vP.
Looking forward to this *match*, but as a European, I can't say I'm looking forward to IPL's 20 minutes of "ads in progress" per 40 minutes~ of starcraft, at 2 am.
Rooting for some crazy good strats and micro by HerO though :D
This is the level of TvP I wish we saw more of at the higher level. And the unit composition too, so sick of hearing MMM (or MMMVG) is the only way to play TvP so the more I see any non-MMM build I get happy.
ughh i was cheering for hero but that was so bad. Did he honestly thing he was going to bust the front with that little force? He didnt even have the voids in the battle when he went at the front.
He should have just harassed with the voids (and kept them alive...) while using that little ground force to take his expo. Then u can tech to HT's and there you go, your back in it.
On February 05 2012 10:20 Equity213 wrote: ughh i was cheering for hero but that was so bad. Did he honestly thing he was going to bust the front with that little force? He didnt even have the voids in the battle when he went at the front.
He should have just harassed with the voids (and kept them alive...) while using that little ground force to take his expo. Then u can tech to HT's and there you go, your back in it.
Sigh, cmon lets hope the next one is better.
He's still behind. and no way harass would be possible. jjakji blindly made vikings
On February 05 2012 10:20 Equity213 wrote: ughh i was cheering for hero but that was so bad. Did he honestly thing he was going to bust the front with that little force? He didnt even have the voids in the battle when he went at the front.
He should have just harassed with the voids (and kept them alive...) while using that little ground force to take his expo. Then u can tech to HT's and there you go, your back in it.
Sigh, cmon lets hope the next one is better.
He's still behind. and no way harass would be possible. jjakji blindly made vikings
On February 05 2012 10:20 Equity213 wrote: ughh i was cheering for hero but that was so bad. Did he honestly thing he was going to bust the front with that little force? He didnt even have the voids in the battle when he went at the front.
He should have just harassed with the voids (and kept them alive...) while using that little ground force to take his expo. Then u can tech to HT's and there you go, your back in it.
Sigh, cmon lets hope the next one is better.
He's still behind. and no way harass would be possible. jjakji blindly made vikings
he scouted the stargate -> vikings.
pretty sure the vikings were made before the proxy was scouted but okay.
On February 05 2012 10:26 Talin wrote: Jjakji did start Vikings before scouting SG iirc, but it was a good read once he decided HerO took too long trying to bust the bunker at his natural.
yeah i agree, it's what makes jjakji so good at TvP
I thought hero was going to get caught out of position there when he moved his zealots around the long way but it turned into an incredible flank when he was able to hold that bio off with the storms at his front door with only a 2 colossi and like 3 templar
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
Why would you move out with your marines if you are going for a very fast hellion drop?I feel like some koreans need to calm down a bit instead of attacking with everything they have regardless of their build.
Terrans love that 3 hellion drop into 1/1/1 on close air XD If Jjakji had bunkered his front instead of moving out that might have looked completely different.
On February 05 2012 10:48 Equity213 wrote: I have to say these games seem kinda sloppy.... how do u lose your marines in the middle of the map like that????
He was always going to lose them to what Hero was doing the moment he moved out as Hero has too much on the map and a proxy Pylon. Not much he could have done with that (except not move out at all).
On February 05 2012 10:48 Equity213 wrote: I have to say these games seem kinda sloppy.... how do u lose your marines in the middle of the map like that????
He didn't scout the warp in pylon and thought he could chase down the weak lone stalkers.
After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
On February 05 2012 10:47 R!! wrote: Why would you move out with your marines if you are going for a very fast hellion drop?I feel like some koreans need to calm down a bit instead of attacking with everything they have regardless of their build.
I've seen it used as a dual pronged attack where you drop hellions in the mineral line and then move in with your marines
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
Don't get your hopes up, it's going to be more like "well this ain't Code S lolz".
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
Well it's certainly doubtful he's going to be using anything in these games he has worked on for the GSL given Hero has till very recently been in the same house as MC (who he's playing). I don't think anyone is going to say he's playing badly intentionally though lol.
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
I hope you're ready to eat crow if you are wrong. Flat out stating Jjakji is losing when he is really far better than HeRo is hilarious.
On February 05 2012 10:48 Equity213 wrote: I have to say these games seem kinda sloppy.... how do u lose your marines in the middle of the map like that????
He was always going to lose them to what Hero was doing the moment he moved out as Hero has too much on the map and a proxy Pylon. Not much he could have done with that (except not move out at all).
Exactly, he shouldn't have moved them. 9 times out of 10 Protoss leaves 1 or 2 stalkers at the center watch tower. Sending marines like that was pretty foolish. If he was planning on doing a two prong attack, he should have scouted with one marine/SCV first -.-
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
O.o HerO has haters? Who can actually hate HerO????
On February 05 2012 10:48 Equity213 wrote: I have to say these games seem kinda sloppy.... how do u lose your marines in the middle of the map like that????
He was always going to lose them to what Hero was doing the moment he moved out as Hero has too much on the map and a proxy Pylon. Not much he could have done with that (except not move out at all).
Exactly, he shouldn't have moved them. 9 times out of 10 Protoss leaves 1 or 2 stalkers at the center watch tower. Sending marines like that was pretty foolish. If he was planning on doing a two prong attack, he should have scouted with one marine/SCV first -.-
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
O.o HerO has haters? Who can actually hate HerO????
Apparently anyone who isn't actively cheering for HerO is a HerO hater -____-
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
O.o HerO has haters? Who can actually hate HerO????
Anybody who doesn't think HerO is number 1 Protoss in the world obviously lol
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
I hope you're ready to eat crow if you are wrong. Flat out stating Jjakji is losing when he is really far better than HeRo is hilarious.
What does winning and losing have to do with better or worse?
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
I hope you're ready to eat crow if you are wrong. Flat out stating Jjakji is losing when he is really far better than HeRo is hilarious.
What does winning and losing have to do with better or worse?
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
I hope you're ready to eat crow if you are wrong. Flat out stating Jjakji is losing when he is really far better than HeRo is hilarious.
What does winning and losing have to do with better or worse?
Is this a serious reply?
Obviously the % to win a match. Derp.
No.... I'm saying Her0 is winning right now, yet your rebuttal is that he is better than Her0, which seems to somehow negate Her0's current lead in the series.
Is it me or is Jjakji refusing to play any type of macro games? think it's becuase he's facing tosses in Code S?
Hero holding the repeated all-ins with his decision making is awesome right now. I always thought Hero's style was tough to execute, but he's showing some of his best control and decision making here, and I'm loving it. Go hero go!
On February 05 2012 11:04 R!! wrote: Jjakji's online play is so horribad that it leaves me wondering how much his GSL performance owes to Sage's builds.
He does fine in most of the KSL stuff I've seen? Just normally he plays macro most of the time and here instead he's tossing out all ins and floating hero some wins because he's nice like that.
On February 05 2012 11:05 Delwack wrote: Is it me or is Jjakji refusing to play any type of macro games? think it's becuase he's facing tosses in Code S?
Hero holding the repeated all-ins with his decision making is awesome right now. I always thought Hero's style was tough to execute, but he's showing some of his best control and decision making here, and I'm loving it. Go hero go!
and now I eat my words as he goes CC first. gg me.
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
I hope you're ready to eat crow if you are wrong. Flat out stating Jjakji is losing when he is really far better than HeRo is hilarious.
.. i didn't say that HerO whould win the whole series for sure - just made a sarcastic reference to some of the previous posters here who said HerO is going to be "roflstomped" because he's just the "Korean B-Team Mercenary" etc.pp. .. as we see .. he may not be the bad player as some here said
i'm happy to see HerO win some games .. in other ways i didn't like the games until now very much because there was no real mid to late-game .. and i think thats one of HerOs strengths ..
On February 05 2012 10:51 Kenny_oro wrote: After Jjakji is defeated maybe some of the HerO-haters here gonna show up again just to say he lost this on purpose to look really weak before his GSL matches ;D
I hope you're ready to eat crow if you are wrong. Flat out stating Jjakji is losing when he is really far better than HeRo is hilarious.
What does winning and losing have to do with better or worse?
Is this a serious reply?
Obviously the % to win a match. Derp.
No.... I'm saying Her0 is winning right now, yet your rebuttal is that he is better than Her0, which seems to somehow negate Her0's current lead in the series.
You are assuming I said it to negate HerO's lead which is wrong. Putting words in my mouth = bad.
I'm saying Jjakji is far better and because of that someone saying HerO will outright win the series for sure is ridiculous.
I'm saying Jjakji is far better and because of that someone saying HerO will outright win the series for sure is ridiculous.
Almost as ridiculous as people saying Her0 would lose for sure.
^__^
Except it's not because he's the underdog.
It is. This is not math, it's a game with a huge number of variables that can make one gamer defeat another. Of course hero is the underdog, he's in code A while jjakji is a code S champion. But it's not 100% certain that jjakji will win.
I think hero was trying to chop off some of the army and eliminate it piece by piece, while buying time for the colossi but his control faltered a little bit there, and it cost him.
Standard game with a custom-tailored timing attack against the double upgrade build. Maybe hero needed a couple cannons there, this way he would be able to hold the ramp a bit longer untill the second Colossus finished.
You guys can't stand the fact that I'm right. It's okay.
Anyone sensible can tell Jjakji is saving his best for Code S soon so he's not putting his all into the match and experimenting on fellow korean Protoss.
Of course thinking logically would be too much to ask.
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
On February 05 2012 11:26 Asha` wrote: I wonder if this 5rax marine build is a reaction to the increased number of fast thirds from toss on maps like this.
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
apparently not if code S champion and top3 terran on the world loses to some unknown code B toss
Hero is in code A and has been for 3 seasons now i think. He missed moving up to code s by 1 game in the up and downs. I would hardly say he's an unknown code B toss. Jjakji is definitely the more accomplished player by far in the korean scene, but your assessment of hero is far from fair
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
Yes. Let's think of this LR thread as our very own cyber barcraft. Life is a constant party, but only if you realize it
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
apparently not if code S champion and top3 terran on the world loses to some unknown code B toss
Hero is in code A and has been for 3 seasons now i think. He missed moving up to code s by 1 game in the up and downs. I would hardly say he's an unknown code B toss. Jjakji is definitely the more accomplished player by far in the korean scene, but your assessment of hero is far from fair
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
On February 05 2012 11:28 Bagration wrote: Wow, I hope that this is the series that gives Hero his mojo back
I think hero has been a beast at online tournaments its usually in the booth that somehow nerves get to him. Of course all the hero haters are gonna come out and say that online tournaments mean nothing. lol.
Hero just needs to get his head straight and without doubt he will own.
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
apparently not if code S champion and top3 terran on the world loses to some unknown code B toss
Code A,dreamhack champion and nasl finalist.
So many people seem to forget his Dreamhack win. =(
Code S or doesn't matter tbh. International tournaments are just whichever korean of the handful attending has a good day/takes advantage of other koreans having a bad day.
You guys think that jjakji isn't all inning or doing cheeky timings because he's afraid of playing macro TvP? Because most terrans agree that macro tvp is far more difficult than doing 1-2base timings. i mean mma said it himself.
hero is responding almost perfectly to that stuff and just countering. jjakji isn't playing amazing but i wouldn't doubt he's also playing really timing based because protoss is so hard to beat in the lategame.
Not sure why bunkerless style is still being used these days. Maps with wide open naturals like Daybreak, Tal'Darim and even Xel'nage caverns should of taught terrans how easy it is to get dismantled by forcefields.
Nice play by Hero. He seems to be more stable and lesse volatile then I remembered him. An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist. Regardless....gogo Hero Liquid fighting!
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
apparently not if code S champion and top3 terran on the world loses to some unknown code B toss
User was warned for this post
lol unkonw Code B Toss? You're joking right? He's in Code A and has been there for a couple seasons, barely missing out on advancing to Code S, Won Dreamhack NASL second place... Has been known for ages as being an amazing player on ladder with only Nerve issues holding him back. It's no surprise to me that in an online tournament he can stomp the reigning GSL champion...
On February 05 2012 11:33 GreyKnight wrote: You guys think that jjakji isn't all inning or doing cheeky timings because he's afraid of playing macro TvP? Because most terrans agree that macro tvp is far more difficult than doing 1-2base timings. i mean mma said it himself.
hero is responding almost perfectly to that stuff and just countering. jjakji isn't playing amazing but i wouldn't doubt he's also playing really timing based because protoss is so hard to beat in the lategame.
He is doing a lot of basic stuff wrong, you never go full retard, i.e send 12 marines into the wilderness to do a micro battle vs stalkers when you can just focus fire some probes.
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
On February 05 2012 10:37 Asha` wrote: Not even Jjakji can win on Protoss paradise.
lol apparently you didn't watch that last big engagement. Had nothing to do with the map, Jjakji just didn't micro well and engaged poorly. Eating storms while failing to kill the 2 colossus sitting there, and half of Hero's army wasn't even around yet.
Stay classy.
Calm Before the Storm Protoss 16-17 Terran (48.5%)
apparently not if code S champion and top3 terran on the world loses to some unknown code B toss
User was warned for this post
lol unkonw Code B Toss? You're joking right? He's in Code A and has been there for a couple seasons, barely missing out on advancing to Code S, Won Dreamhack NASL second place... Has been known for ages as being an amazing player on ladder with only Nerve issues holding him back. It's no surprise to me that in an online tournament he can stomp the reigning GSL champion...
Just fyi, he's practically unknown to most Korean fans. He's well known in foreigner circles, but, I asked a bunch of Koreans back home a few weeks ago and they had no idea who HerO was.
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
So serious bro.
I dunno man, parties are serious business.
When you slide up to that girl you gotta ask yourself:
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
probably not because nobody watched him stream
His Korean stream? Ehh its decent. He's not very popular since he ALWAYS streams when Bomber streams for some reason -.-
On February 05 2012 11:33 GreyKnight wrote: You guys think that jjakji isn't all inning or doing cheeky timings because he's afraid of playing macro TvP? Because most terrans agree that macro tvp is far more difficult than doing 1-2base timings. i mean mma said it himself.
hero is responding almost perfectly to that stuff and just countering. jjakji isn't playing amazing but i wouldn't doubt he's also playing really timing based because protoss is so hard to beat in the lategame.
Well yea, more and more T's are starting to realise that going into late game with bio is a joke on most maps and they're trying whatever to get some maps win, but he's obviously not bringing his main builds because of the upcoming code S stuff.
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
On February 05 2012 11:33 GreyKnight wrote: You guys think that jjakji isn't all inning or doing cheeky timings because he's afraid of playing macro TvP? Because most terrans agree that macro tvp is far more difficult than doing 1-2base timings. i mean mma said it himself.
hero is responding almost perfectly to that stuff and just countering. jjakji isn't playing amazing but i wouldn't doubt he's also playing really timing based because protoss is so hard to beat in the lategame.
Passive macro TvP is pretty hard. But this type of play isn't very strong either, far too gimmicky.
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
So serious bro.
I dunno man, parties are serious business.
When you slide up to that girl you gotta ask yourself:
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
So serious bro.
I dunno man, parties are serious business.
When you slide up to that girl you gotta ask yourself:
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
So serious bro.
I dunno man, parties are serious business.
When you slide up to that girl you gotta ask yourself:
On February 05 2012 11:22 tree.hugger wrote: Can't we just discuss the games instead of drawing ridiculously absolutist conclusions based on single games?
You must be fun at parties.
Is this live report what passes for a party these days? Nice criticism to make when we're both taking time from a Saturday night to watch this.
So serious bro.
I dunno man, parties are serious business.
When you slide up to that girl you gotta ask yourself:
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
It's a KOTH so it's not only $500, it's also a chance to keep making $500 week-in, week-out. Someone like Jjakji can easily make more money on this than on a GSL run (it's not like he's going to win it again).
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
QFT. Most SC2 pros don't have a steady salary; they get their income from streaming, sponsorships, and tournaments. They will take anything that they can get.
On February 05 2012 11:53 Talin wrote: It's a KOTH so it's not only $500, it's also a chance to keep making $500 week-in, week-out. Someone like Jjakji can easily make more money on this than on a GSL run (it's not like he's going to win it again).
ouch bro. mvp's out, I think he's got a fair chance if he can avoid MMA
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
I chose to word a few statements pretty badly so I'll admit defeat
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
10k people watching this match and they are playing for fame,money isnt everything.
On February 05 2012 11:53 Talin wrote: It's a KOTH so it's not only $500, it's also a chance to keep making $500 week-in, week-out. Someone like Jjakji can easily make more money on this than on a GSL run (it's not like he's going to win it again).
ouch bro. mvp's out, I think he's got a fair chance if he can avoid MMA
Pretty sure he won't make it out of the group, but we'll see I guess.
On February 05 2012 11:53 Talin wrote: It's a KOTH so it's not only $500, it's also a chance to keep making $500 week-in, week-out. Someone like Jjakji can easily make more money on this than on a GSL run (it's not like he's going to win it again).
ouch bro. mvp's out, I think he's got a fair chance if he can avoid MMA
he lost to marineking in tvt in code a and marineking just beat alive 2-0. alive and gumiho also look good tvt right now, jjakji's worst MU. this would be a tough season for jjakji to win. he also still has to get through his ro16 group
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
For a typical pro-gamer, $500 is substantial amount to them. There are players out there that are extremely good but can't break into Code A/S (e.g TheStC), so their income only comes from winning small events like KSL/Korean Weekly, and they put a lot of effort into winning it even if the prize pool is $100.
But yeah, for the much more established and well-known pro-gamers (MMA, Mvp, NesTea etc.) $500 may not be as much to them.
On February 05 2012 11:53 Talin wrote: It's a KOTH so it's not only $500, it's also a chance to keep making $500 week-in, week-out. Someone like Jjakji can easily make more money on this than on a GSL run (it's not like he's going to win it again).
ouch bro. mvp's out, I think he's got a fair chance if he can avoid MMA
Don't forget he could run into MarineKing and/or Gumiho, both of whom have very strong TvT right now.
Is anyone else plagued by lag on every IPL related stream even if there's no lag on any other stream? I'm very baffled, the content is great yet I can never watch it. I'm on 8mbps down/up connection.
On February 05 2012 12:00 DrowSwordsman wrote: Is anyone else plagued by lag on every IPL related stream even if there's no lag on any other stream? I'm very baffled, the content is great yet I can never watch it. I'm on 8mbps down/up connection.
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
For a typical pro-gamer, $500 is substantial amount to them. There are players out there that are extremely good but can't break into Code A/S (e.g TheStC), so their income only comes from winning small events like KSL/Korean Weekly, and they put a lot of effort into winning it even if the prize pool is $100.
But yeah, for the much more established and well-known pro-gamers (MMA, Mvp, NesTea etc.) $500 may not be as much to them.
They are playing for fame in weekly cups like KSL/Korean Weekly.Look at TaeJa and Squirtle,they are well knowing players in this scene because of $100 prize KSL and korean weekly cups.aLive played in ESV korean weekly cup,almost all korean stars played in KSL.
On February 05 2012 12:06 JJH777 wrote: Why did he turn around....
He was afraid of Hero's storms, another storm would have killed half his army. I don't think he knew how many templar he had left. Could have just scanned and looked for templar where ever he wanted to attack, but yeah.
On February 05 2012 12:06 JJH777 wrote: Why did he turn around....
He was afraid of Hero's storms, another storm would have killed half his army. I don't think he knew how many templar he had left. Could have just scanned and looked for templar where ever he wanted to attack, but yeah.
Turning around was a really bad decision even if he would have lost. Turning around while losing his third basically made this game unwinnable if he stays who knows what happens.
On February 05 2012 12:12 R!! wrote: Lol hero might actually lose, ahahahah.
jjakji had 1 orbital, no raven or ability to make one. Hero could have killed the army easily by just using dts 2 or 3 at a time. There was no way he would lose despite pretty sloppy play at the end.
Ehh this series was all-right. Gotta wonder why Jjakji one-based the first few games when he won most of the macro ones -.- Either way good games by HerO
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
Ya, very poor choice of strats by Jjakji and some horrible mistakes, still, he completely demolished hero micro wise in pretty much every engagement, though somehow he didn't want to expand properly in any of these games.
On February 05 2012 12:15 openbox1 wrote: Yeah I think jjati deliberately threw these games so that MC would think he's a scrub. Hero played terribly and he still won...
jjakji practiced with MC last season and MC isn't a retard.
On February 05 2012 12:15 openbox1 wrote: Yeah I think jjati deliberately threw these games so that MC would think he's a scrub. Hero played terribly and he still won...
Yeah because he totally expects MC to fall for something like that that he's willing to bet $500+ on it. -_-
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why he played so unusually (for him).
You know what? He didn't perform well because he was nervous! LOL
Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
On February 05 2012 12:16 Whatson wrote: Ehh this series was all-right. Gotta wonder why Jjakji one-based the first few games when he won most of the macro ones -.-
Has to do with the trends of TvP lately, and HerO's playstyle. HerO tends to play on the knife's edge in the mid-game, since he's so busy teching to everything.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
Or it could be that Jjakji is being hyped up wayyyyy harder that he deserves to be. Fantastic player, but I still feel he isn't as good as he is hyped up to be.
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
He is a protoss. Everybody has haters based on what races they play.
Can't wait for tree.huggers write up, something like "Heavily favored code S champion Jjakji gets beaten by HerO!!!".
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
I was thinking about this. It's possible that he held back strategies he would've used otherwise so they wouldn't be exposed for his Code S opponents. Not trying to take anything away from Hero, I'm very glad he won, just thinking that Jjakji may have had his eye on the big money.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
Or it could be that Jjakji is being hyped up wayyyyy harder that he deserves to be. Fantastic player, but I still feel he isn't as good as he is hyped up to be.
I disagree, being due to play 2 protoss players in code S is an extremely legit excuse to not show what you are capable of and instead reveal false weaknesses, as legit as an excuse gets, up there with collapsed lung.
Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
Or it could be that Jjakji is being hyped up wayyyyy harder that he deserves to be. Fantastic player, but I still feel he isn't as good as he is hyped up to be.
I disagree, being due to play 2 protoss players in code S is an extremely legit excuse to not show what you are capable of and instead reveal false weaknesses, as legit as an excuse gets, up there with collapsed lung.
Honestly if players want to hide builds in "B-tier tournaments" and preserve their A-Game they either shouldn't play in them or it shouldn't be used as an excuse. You can't have it both ways.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
Or it could be that Jjakji is being hyped up wayyyyy harder that he deserves to be. Fantastic player, but I still feel he isn't as good as he is hyped up to be.
I disagree, being due to play 2 protoss players in code S is an extremely legit excuse to not show what you are capable of and instead reveal false weaknesses, as legit as an excuse gets, up there with collapsed lung.
Honestly if players want to hide builds in "B-tier tournaments" and preserve their A-Game they either shouldn't play in them or it shouldn't be used as an excuse. You can't have it both ways.
The players aren't using it as an excuse anyway, it's just random forum people who dislike the outcome of the match.
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
He is a protoss. Everybody has haters based on what races they play.
Can't wait for tree.huggers write up, something like "Heavily favored code S champion Jjakji gets beaten by HerO!!!".
Haha, I can't tell exactly how I'm being made fun of, but I'm pretty sure it's happening.
I'll just quote all the people in the first few pages though, everyone who watches HerO knows that he beats Jjakji like a rented mule on ladder.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
Or it could be that Jjakji is being hyped up wayyyyy harder that he deserves to be. Fantastic player, but I still feel he isn't as good as he is hyped up to be.
Edit: Also gratz to Hero! :D
He is the reigning GSL champion so I am not sure what kind of over the top hype could be better then that
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
I guess the fans are the problem, he could be considered overhyped.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
Or it could be that Jjakji is being hyped up wayyyyy harder that he deserves to be. Fantastic player, but I still feel he isn't as good as he is hyped up to be.
I disagree, being due to play 2 protoss players in code S is an extremely legit excuse to not show what you are capable of and instead reveal false weaknesses, as legit as an excuse gets, up there with collapsed lung.
Honestly if players want to hide builds in "B-tier tournaments" and preserve their A-Game they either shouldn't play in them or it shouldn't be used as an excuse. You can't have it both ways.
The players aren't using it as an excuse anyway, it's just random forum people who dislike the outcome of the match.
I was mainly aiming that at disgruntled forum fanbois. Not that it would have had any influence on them but trying doesn't hurt.
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
It comes with popularity. If you don't have any haters, you are not that hot, and HerO is extremely hot XD
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
I guess the fans are the problem, he could be considered overhyped.
He's regularly being "hyped" by various progamers both in Korea and the foreign scene. You know, people who actually know what they're talking about and don't have to look into TLPDs for arguments.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Eh. Just because you win a GSL doesn't mean you'll win every match, and I would consider Hero to be a top player. I don't think this result means the game is volatile at all.
People have been spoiled by Flash and Jaedong's dominance imo. It's like golf. People got used to Woods winning everything, and now it seems like you read about a different person winning majors every time. When forGG won an MSL and then became solidly mediocre no one thought it meant anything about BW. In most fields of competition you simply don't see win rates much above ~60%.
sick storms from hero in the final game never letting jjakji get into position for an engagement. just starved him out until it was 3 mining bases to 1 and get his upgrades sooner than the game before. should be another excellent series next week with him and dimaga. great job IPL.
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
I guess the fans are the problem, he could be considered overhyped.
He's regularly being "hyped" by various progamers both in Korea and the foreign scene. You know, people who actually know what they're talking about and don't have to look into TLPDs for arguments.
I'm sure people will start citing HerO as one of the best players in the world atm because of this series. That's why the flip side is arguing that jjakji wasn't playing his best. Honestly fans will hype the shit out of their players, while antis will try to cut them down. IMO beating someone in a online show match cannot be compared to facing them in a major tournement. Perhaps in time Hero will truly stand in my top players book.
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
10k people watching this match and they are playing for fame,money isnt everything.
money isnt everything? lol you make me laugh.. fame = money so how can you say money isnt everything .. more famous they get more tournaments they get invited to .. what you think most of these sc2 players switch over to get peanuts? no there main objective was to earn MONEY
So when a terran loses, he's not playing to his standards but when a Protoss loses he's overrated? It's sad that a lot of top protosses just aren't getting the credit they deserve. Players like Genius and MC were written off and there were long articles on how they are outdated. What a joke!
Hero had better multi-tasking and better response than Jiajiki. Jiajiki is just throwing every build he knows against Hero in the hope that one of the build would pinpoint Hero's weakness but Hero adapted everytime. This is why Jiajiki scouts very late. He doesn't care about what strategy Hero employs. He's a flowchart Terran that just knows a lot of builds. There's nothing outstanding about his macro/micro or his multi-tasking.
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
10k people watching this match and they are playing for fame,money isnt everything.
money isnt everything? lol you make me laugh.. fame = money so how can you say money isnt everything .. more famous they get more tournaments they get invited to .. what you think most of these sc2 players switch over to get peanuts? no there main objective was to earn MONEY
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
I guess the fans are the problem, he could be considered overhyped.
He's regularly being "hyped" by various progamers both in Korea and the foreign scene. You know, people who actually know what they're talking about and don't have to look into TLPDs for arguments.
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
He is a protoss. Everybody has haters based on what races they play.
Can't wait for tree.huggers write up, something like "Heavily favored code S champion Jjakji gets beaten by HerO!!!".
Haha, I can't tell exactly how I'm being made fun of, but I'm pretty sure it's happening.
I'll just quote all the people in the first few pages though, everyone who watches HerO knows that he beats Jjakji like a rented mule on ladder.
Not making fun. The bold is the fun part haha.
Why I love this game, every match up is within 50% win rate of each other.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
On February 05 2012 12:13 Asha` wrote: Well, pretty awful series.
Jjakji obviously with his mind on the GSL.
Hero played alright.
This excuse never gets old.
^_^ it's a good one.
Jjakji played much worse than normal for whatever reason, being involved in the GSL and about to play possibly 2 seperate Code S toss isn't exactly an implausible reason for why his play was so untypical of his usual game.
Or it could be that Jjakji is being hyped up wayyyyy harder that he deserves to be. Fantastic player, but I still feel he isn't as good as he is hyped up to be.
I disagree, being due to play 2 protoss players in code S is an extremely legit excuse to not show what you are capable of and instead reveal false weaknesses, as legit as an excuse gets, up there with collapsed lung.
Honestly if players want to hide builds in "B-tier tournaments" and preserve their A-Game they either shouldn't play in them or it shouldn't be used as an excuse. You can't have it both ways.
The players aren't using it as an excuse anyway, it's just random forum people who dislike the outcome of the match.
I was mainly aiming that at disgruntled forum fanbois. Not that it would have had any influence on them but trying doesn't hurt.
We have fans of supposedly "overhyped" players projecting their sensitivities on other supposedly "overhyped" players. each player's fans hate the fans of the other. That's all this is. None of the insults in this thread have any merit, or contain any poison, it's just some people feeling good for being right tonight, and others grumbling for being wrong.
There are also those who read too much into and are too sensitive to what internet posters type. We need to band together to remove those. They annoy me.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something.
On February 05 2012 12:19 Kommander wrote: Why the fuck does Hero have doubters and haters here? He's a nice guy who cares for his fans and who is actually a top class Protoss, what has he ever done to you guys? -__-
It comes with popularity. If you don't have any haters, you are not that hot, and HerO is extremely hot XD
I don't hate Hero in any shape or form, but I, along with others, just find it obnoxious how overhyped he is. Obviously he's a liquid player, but the extent to which he is hyped up as "the best protoss player in the world" can get to you. It's not as bad anymore, but it'll linger on in our minds.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something.
Also jjakji is known for his weak TvT.
It does. But I think it is still more due to MVP playing poorly than Gumiho playing extraordinarily well. Hell, one game MVP pushed out and realized that he forgot siege mode. Siege mode man!
Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
Yeah sure whatever. Wake me up when he gets to Code S and plays consistently well against Koreans.
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
Winning a showmatch and instantly become the best toss! omg.....
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
This is why Hero has "haters". Never mind that Hero was eliminated in the group stages of HSC4 and IEM kiev, being owned by mostly foreigners, and is constantly out performed by MC. He's the best protoss because he uses the deathball with "skill".
Not to say all Hero fans are delusional, mind you, or anything against Hero. Just need to offset the insanity you know?
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
10k people watching this match and they are playing for fame,money isnt everything.
money isnt everything? lol you make me laugh.. fame = money so how can you say money isnt everything .. more famous they get more tournaments they get invited to .. what you think most of these sc2 players switch over to get peanuts? no there main objective was to earn MONEY
when you get fame,money instantly comes to you.
but first: fame.
idiot thats what i just said.. you are probably the only person who would trade 1 million dollars for popularity
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
This is why Hero has "haters". Never mind that Hero was eliminated in the group stages of HSC4 and IEM kiev, being owned by mostly foreigners, and is constantly out performed by MC. He's the best protoss because he uses the deathball with "skill".
Not to say all Hero fans are delusional, mind you, or anything against Hero. Just need to offset the insanity you know?
To his defense though it's pretty hard to find an alternate to MC. Nani, Sage, Huk(ish), Hero, and kinda genius have all laid claims to the #2 spot for a month. Ofc there's the time when no toss was winning when people tried to dethrone MC but... honestly MC's still a level above all of the others.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
Puzzle and oz 1# and 2# toss? GTFO what about MC, Genius, ect
Can we please just accept that players' skills can be highly variable, that luck is sometimes a factor, and stop trying to attribute wins and losses to our own biases like a bunch of conspiracy theorists? -____-
On that note, congrats to Hero on the deserved victory
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
This much hype for a Code A player who has only won 1 tournament, and has had no significant headway in Code S? Please... This is why HerO has so many haters, it's not because of his play, which is well deserved of praise, but because fans like you overhype SO MUCH. He's a great Protoss player, yes, but not deserving of the title "best Protoss in the world." Need I remind you of his 0-5 dismantling by Polt? Or how about getting shut-out in GSL Blizzard Cup? Or how about losing to Violet in the first round of HSC IV, his best matchup? Or how about getting defeated by foreigners in IEM Kiev? The list goes on... Until HerO can win GSL, I will call MC the Protoss President. Everybody else is pretty much second rate.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something.
Also jjakji is known for his weak TvT.
It does. But I think it is still more due to MVP playing poorly than Gumiho playing extraordinarily well. Hell, one game MVP pushed out and realized that he forgot siege mode. Siege mode man!
Most people don't realize that Gumiho's style is one of multitasking that forces your opponent to work as much as you are and it just forces mistakes because you end up worn out by everything. However, it makes Gumiho look sloppy because he's doing so much and when you do so much, it's impossible to do everything well.
It's actually a lot like MMA who you'll notice fucks up here and there and gets massively behind but at the same time can make someone like Nestea look bad.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
Puzzle and oz 1# and 2# toss? GTFO what about MC, Genius, ect
at that time oz was probably the best toss, the best in that season at the very least.. puzzle not so much
Great games by HerO! He really showed what IMO is the dominant power of late-game toss in this matchup. It seemed like he always had an extra storm or two to drop after the EMPs had landed and the engagement committed to. I look forward to seeing him again next week!
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something.
Also jjakji is known for his weak TvT.
It does. But I think it is still more due to MVP playing poorly than Gumiho playing extraordinarily well. Hell, one game MVP pushed out and realized that he forgot siege mode. Siege mode man!
Most people don't realize that Gumiho's style is one of multitasking that forces your opponent to work as much as you are and it just forces mistakes because you end up worn out by everything. However, it makes Gumiho look sloppy because he's doing so much and when you do so much, it's impossible to do everything well.
It's actually a lot like MMA who you'll notice fucks up here and there and gets massively behind but at the same time can make someone like Nestea look bad.
But MMA controls everything much better; his drops are controlled well, his battle micro (tanks target-fire, marine split etc.) is impeccable and his reaction time is also much better. GuMiho is a good player and looks like what MMA was when he first came out, but he still needs to refine everything to be considered a top Terran.
MMA's game-sense is also so much better in TvT and controls the game much better, by knowing when to attack, when to drop and when to transition into tanks. It just seems like GuMiho is doing multiple things for the sake of it, rather than planning it to control the game.
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
This much hype for a Code A player who has only won 1 tournament, and has had no significant headway in Code S? Please... This is why HerO has so many haters, it's not because of his play, which is well deserved of praise, but because fans like you overhype SO MUCH. He's a great Protoss player, yes, but not deserving of the title "best Protoss in the world." Need I remind you of his 0-5 dismantling by Polt? Or how about getting shut-out in GSL Blizzard Cup? Or how about losing to Violet in the first round of HSC IV, his best matchup? Or how about getting defeated by foreigners in IEM Kiev? The list goes on... Until HerO can win GSL, I will call MC the Protoss President. Everybody else is pretty much second rate.
I agree with that you say here. Plz, some ppl. Hero is awesome and super good. Do not let us 'hate' him.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
Puzzle and oz 1# and 2# toss? GTFO what about MC, Genius, ect
at that time oz was probably the best toss, the best in that season at the very least.. puzzle not so much
He was the best in that season just like the result says. But even himself said Mc is still the best toss out there. Anyways, I like Oz and hope he and MVP make it back to codeS again soon.
Imo people in general are too fast to judge who is "best". All a player has to do is win/lose a series to "make it" or have thier time be over. MVP loses a series and suddenly he's just not the best terran anymore. Polt beats MMA in a SINGLE series and suddenly Polt is a better TvTer than MMA. It's just ridiculous.
I'm not actually trying to relate that at all to this current match, but more the discussion and topic of "who's best right now" in general.
On February 05 2012 13:30 Techno wrote: Straight up HerO is the best Protoss in the world. I have no TL bias. Fact is he's beaten many awesome Terrans and Zergs in high pressure situations, and he simply BLEEDS APM and actually USES Protoss with SKILL without relying on a deathball. The only other Protoss with the skill in micro and multitasking is HuK and Hero seems to have better macro/better decision making.
This is why Hero has "haters". Never mind that Hero was eliminated in the group stages of HSC4 and IEM kiev, being owned by mostly foreigners, and is constantly out performed by MC. He's the best protoss because he uses the deathball with "skill".
Not to say all Hero fans are delusional, mind you, or anything against Hero. Just need to offset the insanity you know?
To his defense though it's pretty hard to find an alternate to MC. Nani, Sage, Huk(ish), Hero, and kinda genius have all laid claims to the #2 spot for a month. Ofc there's the time when no toss was winning when people tried to dethrone MC but... honestly MC's still a level above all of the others.
Your list is really generous towards foreigners...
MC, Oz, Genius, Puzzle, Parting. They are actually all serious contenders in the code S.
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
Puzzle and oz 1# and 2# toss? GTFO what about MC, Genius, ect
Really? Calling Puzzle and Oz 1 and 2? Tell me who the only Code S Protoss GSL champion is. Yeah, it's MC. Puzzle and Oz would be good contenders for 2 and 3 while HerO, who id over-hyped, would be like the 15th best Protoss IMO.
On February 05 2012 14:17 Angel_ wrote: Imo people in general are too fast to judge who is "best". All a player has to do is win/lose a series to "make it" or have thier time be over. MVP loses a series and suddenly he's just not the best terran anymore. Polt beats MMA in a SINGLE series and suddenly Polt is a better TvTer than MMA. It's just ridiculous.
I'm not actually trying to relate that at all to this current match, but more the discussion and topic of "who's best right now" in general.
People are too short-sighted about everything.
Mvp not being the "best" anymore is largely due to the fact that other players had already showed they were better than him when they're playing their best (MMA, Jjakji) but Mvp was much more consistent so that's why he retained his position.
With him recently falling apart like that, it's hard to say that players - who are also becoming just as consistent while showing better results - are not overtaking him.
On February 05 2012 14:17 Angel_ wrote: Imo people in general are too fast to judge who is "best". All a player has to do is win/lose a series to "make it" or have thier time be over. MVP loses a series and suddenly he's just not the best terran anymore. Polt beats MMA in a SINGLE series and suddenly Polt is a better TvTer than MMA. It's just ridiculous.
I'm not actually trying to relate that at all to this current match, but more the discussion and topic of "who's best right now" in general.
People are too short-sighted about everything.
Mvp not being the "best" anymore is largely due to the fact that other players had already showed they were better than him when they're playing their best (MMA, Jjakji) but Mvp was much more consistent so that's why he retained his position.
With him recently falling apart like that, it's hard to say that players - who are also becoming just as consistent while showing better results - are not overtaking him.
How has Jjakji shown better consistency? He got destroyed by Ganzi and nearly lost to Boxer.
I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
I can tell you any day any time Mc wants to make it to top 3 in gm, he can do it within a couple of hrs. He is just not playing as many ladder games as hero does.
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls.
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
Hero is a good player no doubt but people are really overrating him too much and saying mc and puzzle cannot compare to him is a joke.MC, Puzzle,Oz,(maybe Parting) are definitely better than him.
Korean ladder does mean something but not everything. Puzzle account is in high masters but he is Code S player. People take ladder rankings too seriously.
On February 03 2012 03:34 SeaSwift wrote: Well, I guess Hero is going to get ROFLSTOMPED again.
huehuehue
I'm amazed as well! Happy, though. Not for Hero so much as for MC. Even if Jjakji didn't want to reveal his strategies, he still should have crushed Hero in a straight up series. $500 is enough to actually try to win the series, even if he doesn't try as hard as for GSL.
Of course X > Y and Y > Z doesn't always mean X > Z in Sc2 terms, but I think it's safe to say that if Jjakji plays MC like he played against Hero, he will get slaughtered.
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls.
actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S.
Being high in ladder doesnt mean youre gonna win GSLs but it does mean that youre damn good. If you look at the other guys in top 10 (out of those whose names are recognizable to non koreans..) you dont find random noobies, you find nestea, gsl champ, polt, gsl champ, Marine King, gsl 2nd place and aLive, who is destroying people in GSL atm.
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls.
actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S.
Nestea has a worse winrate on ladder even if it is true he played as many games as Hero does on ladder? So what !! Almost every codeS player if not all of them would agree that Nestea is top 3 zerg in the world while I doubt if there is any codeS player would tell u that Hero is top 3 toss in Korea. Last week oGs playing zenex on tv, they were in danger of losing because of zenex extreme played so well there and then Supernova came out to win it for the team. Supervona's ladder account shows he is like top 50 in master league Korea, so why did ogs not use Hero who is top 3 in GM?
DRG would try to convince Nestea not picking him but would he do the same to Hero? Nestea crushed players like Polt and ASD and stays in codeS easily while Hero losing to them and struggled badly in the up and down. Keep trying to convince ppl Hero is the best toss in the world while at the same time we were seeing Mc got his best toss player award and Huk got his most improved toss award from gomtv.
Creator on the other hand in my opinion is playing simply better than Hero and he is also able to show that he can win a lot for his team in the teamleague in Korea. Well, Mc has left oGs and we will see if Hero can take Mc's role and back his team up in Korea.
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls.
actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S.
Being high in ladder doesnt mean youre gonna win GSLs but it does mean that youre damn good. If you look at the other guys in top 10 (out of those whose names are recognizable to non koreans..) you dont find random noobies, you find nestea, gsl champ, polt, gsl champ, Marine King, gsl 2nd place and aLive, who is destroying people in GSL atm.
Omg...seriously one online showmatch win and we're back to this crap. "hero is best toss watch his stream!!!!!!!!!!!!" It's pointless to argue because all of your arguments are either subjective or meaningless, that being his ladder rankings and watching his stream. Go by actual results, where Hero is constantly eliminated in group stages by foreigners and you just get the nerves excuse.
On February 05 2012 21:06 Devolved wrote: Vile-Illusion would be a good choice too I think. Not sure if they've let Coca out of his cage yet though :x
I want to see more toss wins in tournaments but at the same time I really miss Coca's zvp. So sad we can not see him play for such a long time. PPl keep saying how strong those toss timing in pvz are and zerg can not beat toss. But man, coca, non of those timings work against him. He is like that good.
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls.
actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S.
Being high in ladder doesnt mean youre gonna win GSLs but it does mean that youre damn good. If you look at the other guys in top 10 (out of those whose names are recognizable to non koreans..) you dont find random noobies, you find nestea, gsl champ, polt, gsl champ, Marine King, gsl 2nd place and aLive, who is destroying people in GSL atm.
Omg...seriously one online showmatch win and we're back to this crap. "hero is best toss watch his stream!!!!!!!!!!!!" It's pointless to argue because all of your arguments are either subjective or meaningless, that being his ladder rankings and watching his stream. Go by actual results, where Hero is constantly eliminated in group stages by foreigners and you just get the nerves excuse.
If I really wanted to I could give you a long full game analysis of the games he plays which would show why he's so good and would be far from subjective.
To you and double620, calm down man, I wasn't really saying he's the best toss in the world cause the "if" is a big one, I already aid that it doesnt really matter as long as he doesnt show results, I'm just talking about his potential to win because of you look at his raw skill while practicing it's clearly there. If you think nerves is a shitty excuse thats not bound to reality then ask yourself why your godly MC was so bad he had a 10% win ratio in Pro League, even though he was good in practice.
also double620.. Supernova is the most successful most stable player at OGS atm... wtf, why on earth wouldnt they choose him rofl Also how would you know what code S players think if they consider HerO top3 toss or not... have you asked them?
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls.
actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S.
Nestea has a worse winrate on ladder even if it is true he played as many games as Hero does on ladder? So what !! Almost every codeS player if not all of them would agree that Nestea is top 3 zerg in the world while I doubt if there is any codeS player would tell u that Hero is top 3 toss in Korea. Last week oGs playing zenex on tv, they were in danger of losing because of zenex extreme played so well there and then Supernova came out to win it for the team. Supervona's ladder account shows he is like top 50 in master league Korea, so why did ogs not use Hero who is top 3 in GM?
DRG would try to convince Nestea not picking him but would he do the same to Hero? Nestea crushed players like Polt and ASD and stays in codeS easily while Hero losing to them and struggled badly in the up and down. Keep trying to convince ppl Hero is the best toss in the world while at the same time we were seeing Mc got his best toss player award and Huk got his most improved toss award from gomtv.
Creator on the other hand in my opinion is playing simply better than Hero and he is also able to show that he can win a lot for his team in the teamleague in Korea. Well, Mc has left oGs and we will see if Hero can take Mc's role and back his team up in Korea.
Creator is really interesting because he does not seem to have any kind of issues with being under pressure, at least in team leagues. He has been used as ace to good effect so far; at least in the matches I saw, he seems not to falter in hard situations. I am under the impression that, in a relatively underdeveloped scene, good nerves can actually count more than raw talent/micro/macro.
That said, I am really unhappy that Code A RO48 is Creator vs Polt ._. Neither of them deserves to be Code B, really. I will be sad either way. =(
On February 05 2012 18:42 xeo1 wrote: I've seen hongun, mc, huk, puzzle, sage, and naniwa stream. However, none of them compare to hero. Watch his stream, and you'll see what I'm talking about.. IMO he's the most skilled toss, just needs to learn to overcome nerves. There is a reason he's constantly top 3 gm on Korean ladder.
Also, he probably never saw if not rarely saw Nestea and MVP in top 3 GM. But the fact is they won gsls.
actually thats how MVP first made a splash in the scene, by destroying everyone and claiming #1 on the ladder. Looking at ladder right now, Nestea played as many games as HerO this season, he just lost more, but he's also in top10. MC is so amazing he would destroy everyone if he just played? well already with less games played he has a considerably worse win ratio than HerO. These guys have won GSLs, HerOs failing at GSL... Yea thats why xeo said he needs to overcome his nerves. As long as HerO doesnt start doing well in GSL all of this matters little, but I fully agree that by watching his stream (and I've also watched MCs, Puzzle's, Sages, JYPs) it looks like he might be the best toss when his nerve's dont get in the way Hopefully him and Creator get their shit together so we can finally see the most awesome protosses in Code S.
Nestea has a worse winrate on ladder even if it is true he played as many games as Hero does on ladder? So what !! Almost every codeS player if not all of them would agree that Nestea is top 3 zerg in the world while I doubt if there is any codeS player would tell u that Hero is top 3 toss in Korea. Last week oGs playing zenex on tv, they were in danger of losing because of zenex extreme played so well there and then Supernova came out to win it for the team. Supervona's ladder account shows he is like top 50 in master league Korea, so why did ogs not use Hero who is top 3 in GM?
DRG would try to convince Nestea not picking him but would he do the same to Hero? Nestea crushed players like Polt and ASD and stays in codeS easily while Hero losing to them and struggled badly in the up and down. Keep trying to convince ppl Hero is the best toss in the world while at the same time we were seeing Mc got his best toss player award and Huk got his most improved toss award from gomtv.
Creator on the other hand in my opinion is playing simply better than Hero and he is also able to show that he can win a lot for his team in the teamleague in Korea. Well, Mc has left oGs and we will see if Hero can take Mc's role and back his team up in Korea.
Creator is really interesting because he does not seem to have any kind of issues with being under pressure, at least in team leagues. He has been used as ace to good effect so far; at least in the matches I saw, he seems not to falter in hard situations. I am under the impression that, in a relatively underdeveloped scene, good nerves can actually count more than raw talent/micro/macro.
That said, I am really unhappy that Code A RO48 is Creator vs Polt ._. Neither of them deserves to be Code B, really. I will be sad either way. =(
omg, they are both team aces for their team and one of them will be out of gsl. Creator!!!! Last time in CodeA, he needed to face mvp and now polt ! This sucks especially consider that they were teammates in the past. Why don't they use groups in CodeA?
On February 05 2012 12:23 Wroshe wrote: Even though the series was sort of scrappy it was still entertaining. The excuses people make are sort of hilarious though. If anything this proves even more the current volatility of the scene.
Personally I feel that Jjakji is a bit overhyped even though he has a GSL Code S title. I agree, the finals were very good but his way to the final was not very convincing. In the group stages he lost to Killer and then rebounded with wins over SuperNova and Virus. His secound group stage involved getting stomped by MVP and then getting the walk-over over CoCa into a TvT win over the mediocre Gumiho(TvT Speaking). After that he beat Puzzle, Oz and Leenock to grab the title, those three are of high calibre. Still he had quite an easy path to the finals.
Are you serious? Beating Puzzle and Oz to quite easy path to the finals???????
Puzzle and Oz probably #1 #2 Toss players in this scene both have fantastic PvT,and leenock best ZvT along with DongRaeGu.
Jjakji's path to finals was quite tought.
Yes, I am absolutely serious. He had a very weak first group set (in which he even lost to Killer) and in the second he relied on a walk over to get a second chance against a (definatly at the time) very weak TvTer. Sure Puzzle and Oz are both great players but compare that path against some other paths in that same GSL.
Out of those paths (some are imaginary) definatly Leenock's, MMA's and sC's are harder. Depending on how you look you can also make cases for some of the others.
very weak TvTer is GuMiHo? Didnt he crush IMMvp in Code S,how can he have weak TvT? o_O.Losing SangHo doesnt mean anything since you won the whole tournament.
whatever,just look at NesTea's GSL July path to finals;Ro32 July,Ro16 Ensnare, Ro8 CoCa,Ro4 HongUn,Final LosirA.
still im saying jjakji's path to final is one of the toughest.
Also jjakji won in new format,which is 10x harder than older formats.
GuMiHo is known for having VERY weak TvT. No one pegged him to beat MVP at all.
At the end,he beat MVP.This still means something.
Also jjakji is known for his weak TvT.
It does. But I think it is still more due to MVP playing poorly than Gumiho playing extraordinarily well. Hell, one game MVP pushed out and realized that he forgot siege mode. Siege mode man!
Most people don't realize that Gumiho's style is one of multitasking that forces your opponent to work as much as you are and it just forces mistakes because you end up worn out by everything. However, it makes Gumiho look sloppy because he's doing so much and when you do so much, it's impossible to do everything well.
It's actually a lot like MMA who you'll notice fucks up here and there and gets massively behind but at the same time can make someone like Nestea look bad.
But MMA controls everything much better; his drops are controlled well, his battle micro (tanks target-fire, marine split etc.) is impeccable and his reaction time is also much better. GuMiho is a good player and looks like what MMA was when he first came out, but he still needs to refine everything to be considered a top Terran.
MMA's game-sense is also so much better in TvT and controls the game much better, by knowing when to attack, when to drop and when to transition into tanks. It just seems like GuMiho is doing multiple things for the sake of it, rather than planning it to control the game.
The funny thing is, I actually think MMA has been far more consistent in showing his best play against top tier players than MVP, but that doesn't equate to him showing 'better' play overall - he consistently plays his best against the best, but that doesn't mean that the others are consistently playing their best against him. On the flip side, I find MVP to have the most memorable and awe-inspiring games, rather than MMA or Jjakji (last game against TOP in GSL August, where he baited him into a 3-way flank comes to mind).
As for Gumiho's multitasking causing trouble for MVP...CTS. MVP's multitasking is some of the best in the business; he was the one doing 3-4 pronged drops in early 2011, long before MMA made it fashionable in MLG Columbus. You could argue that MMA does it better or has a more distinctive style, but he's pretty much the only player in SC2 who could claim that over MVP. Bomber said MVP's multitasking was far beyond his own when he practiced with him before their Code A Finals.
However, since the middle of 2011, MVP suddenly moved away from that style of play, and started to mech a lot more, and played a much more turtling style in both TvT and TvZ. I'm starting to think that it's due to the CTS in his wrists affecting him more than usual that he toned down the heavy multitasking and micro intensive plays, and aimed for the late-game management style that he was decent at in BW. The problem is, since the mechanical demands of SC2 is lower, the better macro player doesn't necessarily get as much of an advantage in such games anymore, so I think more hectic styles is better in SC2 (DRG, I believe, said the same thing when comparing MMA to MVP).
Edit: I still remember game 3 in the Ro8 of the Korean WCG qualies against Annyeong, where MVP just dropped all over the place. After watching that game, I was thinking...'damn, why doesn't he play like this more often'...then others mentioned CTS, and I thought...oh...
On February 05 2012 11:33 CrazyBirdman wrote: An who the hell cares whether Jjikji is bringing GSL builds or not. He plays in a 500$ with a chance for qualifying for another he is trying his best and he is up against the DreamHack Winter winner and NASL Season2 finalist.
500$ is about how much he gets in a few hours worth of stream-time in Korea. Just saying...
That's an exaggeration by quite a bit, especially in February. To allude that Jjakji somehow doesn't want to win this or doesn't care about winning this series is silly. Sure this isn't a GSL championship to him, but that's a dumb metric to hold to anything. If we only count championship level focus and play for every event, we're not going to have a lot of useful results.
I'm not saying that Jjakji isn't trying to win But if somebody thinks that 500$ is somehow life-changing or a big sum to a pro-gamer, they gotta rethink how much money these guys can make.
500 dollars is a big sum to ANY pro gamer? what are you high or something? yeah destiny streams and makes 600 dollars the whole day if he streams but how many times does he stream a week? like once? holy do people think all pro gamers are like millionaires or something
10k people watching this match and they are playing for fame,money isnt everything.
money isnt everything? lol you make me laugh.. fame = money so how can you say money isnt everything .. more famous they get more tournaments they get invited to .. what you think most of these sc2 players switch over to get peanuts? no there main objective was to earn MONEY
when you get fame,money instantly comes to you.
but first: fame.
idiot thats what i just said.. you are probably the only person who would trade 1 million dollars for popularity
players like Naniwa,HuK already said fame is more important than money in very old interviews.
Destiny,iNcontroL,machine,lzgamer-tell me,what they done in starcraft 2?
nothing.They are in big teams because their marketable name.
also you cant buy fame,you need to earn it.So,your logic is bad as your manner.
God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
On February 06 2012 00:32 mordk wrote: God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
I think these high expactations are also part of the reason why he sometimes fails under pressure, especially since he is on a foreigner team so it's not just the entire foreigner community hyping him but also a lot of pressure from the korean fans as a lot of them think of joining a foreign team as selling out.
Hero won against jjakji, which is impressive and thats about him. And can we pls stop changing the "best player in the world" after every 2nd pro game?
On February 06 2012 00:32 mordk wrote: God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
Agreed. I think in the long run it does more harm than good to Hero. But fans thrive on passion, and this kind of stuff is not too surprising by now. I do wonder how far Hero could go at his full potential, but I do not think he is capable of dominating the scene like a Nestea or a MVP.
On February 06 2012 00:32 mordk wrote: God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
Agreed. I think in the long run it does more harm than good to Hero. But fans thrive on passion, and this kind of stuff is not too surprising by now. I do wonder how far Hero could go at his full potential, but I do not think he is capable of dominating the scene like a Nestea or a MVP.
I don't see how it's harmful for him. If he can't get over the fact that people think he's a good player, he'd probably never be that player anyway.
On February 06 2012 00:32 mordk wrote: God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
He clearly has potential...and he's a very good player. Is there something wrong with wanting him to do well?
On February 06 2012 00:32 mordk wrote: God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
He clearly has potential...and he's a very good player. Is there something wrong with wanting him to do well?
No but it is certainly annoying when people start calling him the best protoss in the world when he can't even break through Code A. (Not saying that's necessarily happening now, but that has been a huge detail in Hero's history)
Personally I love the guy, he's got an awesome style, but I also try to be real about what he is, and right now thats nothing more than a low to mid level Code A protoss. Maybe he'll get better, maybe he won't, but he hasn't (yet)
On February 06 2012 00:32 mordk wrote: God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
He clearly has potential...and he's a very good player. Is there something wrong with wanting him to do well?
No there isn't. There's always an army of people who simply refuse to acknowledge someone's skill until they see medals listed next to his name.
The same sort of people who claimed MMA and DRG were overrated and overhyped Code B teamleaguers who couldn't hold a candle to MVP/Nestea/MC for like 8 months.
On February 06 2012 00:32 mordk wrote: God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
He clearly has potential...and he's a very good player. Is there something wrong with wanting him to do well?
Anybody who says "best in the world" for anything based on 1 result horribly underestimates the depth of talent in the Korean scene.
On February 06 2012 00:32 mordk wrote: God damnit, why must this happen. Hero wins an online showmatch and people once again are hyping the hell out of him and then there will be tears wheh he once again fails to prove he's "the best protoss in the world"... sigh...
I'm not saying he's a bad player but these fanboys exaggerate everything so damn much it gets disturbing after a while...
He clearly has potential...and he's a very good player. Is there something wrong with wanting him to do well?
Anybody who says "best in the world" for anything based on 1 result horribly underestimates the depth of talent in the Korean scene.
That's the scariest thing about the korean scene, for every sick as shit player in the GSL, there's 10 more just as good who aren't recognised yet.
Watching this rebroadcast now, I am a bit underwhelmed by the games. Mostly early-timings and shenanigans, so far. But Hero played quite well, I hope that this victory boosts his confidence.
On February 06 2012 02:55 TigerKarl wrote: Why is IPL lying. There's supposed to be the eu restream now, not B level players.
You know when you have this sudden urge to vomit due to reading disgustingly elitist nonsense on the forums? This is one of those moments. Holy shit, listen to yourself talking and tell me it doesn't embarrass you.
On February 06 2012 02:55 TigerKarl wrote: Why is IPL lying. There's supposed to be the eu restream now, not B level players.
You know when you have this sudden urge to vomit due to reading disgustingly elitist nonsense on the forums? This is one of those moments. Holy shit, listen to yourself talking and tell me it doesn't embarrass you.
come on, you're not new to the internet are you ^^
EPT
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IPL Fight Club
Jjakji made a great entrance by knocking off the previous champion, 
Nerchio, 5-4! The series was much closer than many had anticipated, so it appears that this GSL Code S champion still has something left to prove. This week, 
Liquid`HerO will try to add IPL Fight Club to his growing resume, which is mostly filled with matches against EG.PuMa. Can the newcomer make his mark, or will Jjakji go on a reign of terror never before seen on IPL Fight Club? You'll have to tune in to see!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0araR.png)
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