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I understand the great concern for e-sports to be taken legitimately as a sport by the global audience. What I am battling to understand is why e-sports are being held to a higher standard than the rest of the world's sports?
Japanese Sumo wrestlers have been accused, with interesting evidence (in Freakonomics book 1) of throwing ranking matches to make sure all receive favourable rankings; Tiger Woods gets paid MORE than the Australian Open's 1st place prize (if not the whole pool) to simply ATTEND the event; Numerous team games do not send out their best players/formations to play against weaker teams in games that aren't seen as important. Manchester United the week before a big derby day, Manchester United when they tour South Africa (Our best team beat them in a 3-team tournament 3 years ago, iirc), not to mention the teams mentioned in
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=294342
I also understand the comments that are being made to an extent from both sides. I do feel that to call Naniwa "money-grubbing amateur" is a bit much when MVP recently came out in an interview to say that the switch to SC2 was largely motivated by money. There have been rumours (that my journalistic soul is crying, as I have not tried to confirm them) that Fruitdealer was the same. There was a National Geographic documentary on the WCG 2006 (I think), where money was ALSO the main reason for that player to compete. With respect to Naniwa's situation, to be upset over his stance that he wants to win for money seems a bit hypocritical. Especially when the very same tournament invited Stephano, who has oft been quoted as saying that he is in it solely for the money, and will only stay if that remains to be good.
However, Naniwa, in all the interviews I have come across seems to desire the so-called bonjwa title more than any money. This, coupled with his perceived social awkwardness at events has given him a bad reputation, or as far as I am aware. This event can probably be seen as the straw that broke the camel’s back, but to review some interesting occurrences almost immediately predating this event.
1) There were a series of show matches just before the first Arena of Legends, I think it was (sorry, time constraints again), where various players played far below their peak. I am not just mentioning the Huk Nestea game, where Huk was accused of taking it "too seriously" by Nestea, but also the MKP vs MMA game, where MMA had MKP dead to rights, pulled back, and lost to MKP's overpowered Protoss.... Yes, Protoss. Now, I don't know what was on the line for those matches, I would assume that the winner would receive some form of compensation, however on a well-respected foreigner talk show, it was highlighted that Korean's don't respect show matches as they would a real game. There was no money on the line. There was no international ranking on the line. All that was in this was the entertainment value for the fans...
2) This format, where those who were already eliminated were forced to play was out of the established norm for a GomTV tournament. In GSL Pool play, as soon as a player loses two games, they are no longer required to play. Likewise, in the most recent up & down's, when two players had no chance of advancing, I remember them as not having to play either.
Why was this specific tournament different?
By the time Naniwa vs Nestea had arrived, there was no difference in prize money. There was no chance of either advancing. This can be simplified down to a glorified show match between two people with an interesting rivalry.
The result was an organizer's dream result. Not only do these two players have a great, recent history, they were about to meet up in a Best of One to see who has improved the most.
"Does Naniwa have what it takes to keep down the God of Zerg? Will Nestea take revenge for the Swarm?
No! Naniwa does the unthinkable. He almost shouted it from the rooftops that the rematch will not be today. Not in this place. He will take the grudge further, and show that Nestea is not worth his time... for now.
With both of these players in the up & coming GSL season 1 2012 Code S, it's only a matter of time until these players meet up for revenge."
Instead, this did not happen. Instead, GSL revoked a seed with a spot ruling, and have since been trying to legitimize it. I did not see one announcement or correction concerning Naniwa's Code S seed from MLG since Providence. It was expected that he had won the right to compete in the GSL at MLG. He had earned the right to be at the Blizzard Cup, in all of his ignominious glory by placing 2nd at the same MLG.
Yet it seems that he broke a misunderstood rule that according to some reports (once again I apologize for the tabloid journalism) was not even fully explained. More than that, due to the GSL changing formats again in as many events, he has had his seed revoked.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295033
This November season went through a substantial overhaul, and almost straight away, before the season is complete after showing some amazing games throughout, and the best finals by popular vote so far, it is being changed again. Not only is it being changed again, apparently these rules have been drawn up, and are already in effect for the next season. However, as I understand it, they have not been released to the public yet.
In summation, I am not surprised at how Naniwa acted. If I had paid to watch that game, I would have been excited to see Classic Naniwa, reinventing BM in his own awkward style. I would have thought to myself "A best of one doesn’t mean anything anyway". I would have been ecstatic for the chance at a rematch between these two great players, and probably the most consistently performing foreigner (It's been a long time since TSL 3 yet Naniwa is still up there), And yet, I, and I am not alone, I am left with a feeling that GomTV messed up in handling a situation that could have been easily spun to their benefit. If this was as big a thing in Korean culture as many foreigners are saying, this would have sold MORE tickets, not less. This would have made the GSL more talked about, not less.
This is the type of controversy that would make a company huge, even get GSL trending as Tastosis desperately try. I just cannot help feel they made this decision badly.
Author's N[ote: I am not defending Naniwa here. If it looks like it, I'm sorry. Personally, I don't think the punishment fits the crime anyway. I am questioning Gom's decision from a spectator/business sense.
 
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Maybe sometimes it's not about making money? Sometimes it's about retaining your dignity and not getting walked over by a brat in the same way MLG did. No one is above the game, no matter how much attention they bring. There is not a superstar bigger than starcraft 2 and GSL.
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On December 15 2011 15:09 TheEconomist wrote:
In summation, I am not surprised at how Naniwa acted. If I had paid to watch that game, I would have been excited to see Classic Naniwa, reinventing BM in his own awkward style. I would have thought to myself "A best of one doesn’t mean anything anyway". I would have been ecstatic for the chance at a rematch between these two great players, and probably the most consistently performing foreigner (It's been a long time since TSL 3 yet Naniwa is still up there), And yet, I, and I am not alone, I am left with a feeling that GomTV messed up in handling a situation that could have been easily spun to their benefit. If this was as big a thing in Korean culture as many foreigners are saying, this would have sold MORE tickets, not less. This would have made the GSL more talked about, not less.
This is the type of controversy that would make a company huge, even get GSL trending as Tastosis desperately try. I just cannot help feel they made this decision badly.
What if people dont watch the games only because of the BM of Naniwa and wanted to see the Best of one? (Cause otherwise noone would have bought the ticket since most of the games are bo1).
I also dont understand why there would be more tickets sold AFTER the incident if GOM wouldnt have "banned" Naniwa. Koreans would think GOM is just a lil p*ssy and any bad mannered player could go there and fuck with them, the audience and the sponsors. I dont think that a showing of complete disrespect would cause the koreans go crazy for future GSL tickets.
It would have made GOM look like a joke. It wouldnt even be trending cause there arent enough Koreans for this that watch SC2.
2) This format, where those who were already eliminated were forced to play was out of the established norm for a GomTV tournament. In GSL Pool play, as soon as a player loses two games, they are no longer required to play. Likewise, in the most recent up & down's, when two players had no chance of advancing, I remember them as not having to play either.
Why was this specific tournament different?
By the time Naniwa vs Nestea had arrived, there was no difference in prize money. There was no chance of either advancing. This can be simplified down to a glorified show match between two people with an interesting rivalry.
The result was an organizer's dream result. Not only do these two players have a great, recent history, they were about to meet up in a Best of One to see who has improved the most.
"Does Naniwa have what it takes to keep down the God of Zerg? Will Nestea take revenge for the Swarm?
No! Naniwa does the unthinkable. He almost shouted it from the rooftops that the rematch will not be today. Not in this place. He will take the grudge further, and show that Nestea is not worth his time... for now.
With both of these players in the up & coming GSL season 1 2012 Code S, it's only a matter of time until these players meet up for revenge."
Naniwa wasnt saying: no this match wont be played like this. He said: no f*ck you - i dont wanna play anymore today. A huge difference.
Its nice that you are trying to create a hypothetical world with your words but this isnt hat happened.
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I think it's unfair to compare what nani did to how squads rotate players, use weakened team, u refer to manchester united, the manager sends out a squad he feels is capable of winning (like how zergs try to hold attacks with as little as possible) it backfires sometimes but it isn't the same as throwing a game, if nani (sc2 player) 4gated or 2gated it would have been more applicable cuz he tried at least
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If you were mentioning some international governing body, controlling the sport, such as Fifa, or the ICC. I would agree.
Mentioning a specific company contained in the confines of an Eastern Country, I can't do anything other than disagree. Boxer transcends the GSL, as does White-Ra. MVP, Nestea and MC all are bigger than the GSL.
Not to mention, we aren't watching people who were chased after in high school by the cheerleaders. We are celebrating the fact that these people weren't those people almost. What the 1990's proclaimed as the geek is what we are screaming for. When one person ACTUALLY acts that way, what happens? well, if they win, they're famous (E.G: Bobby Fischer), If they don't, they are seen as childish. Naniwa was winning. If this was Destiny before he got good at the game, we'd all laugh and say "tough luck, son". But this isn't. This is one of the TOP foreigner SC2 players. He is a geek in probably a more true sense of the word than anyone else at the top, and people are surprized at how he acts, when the culture that promotes games promote socially awkward tendencies, or at least in the West.
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On December 15 2011 15:35 KaslimDogs wrote:
I think it's unfair to compare what nani did to how squads rotate players, use weakened team, u refer to manchester united, the manager sends out a squad he feels is capable of winning (like how zergs try to hold attacks with as little as possible) it backfires sometimes but it isn't the same as throwing a game, if nani (sc2 player) 4gated or 2gated it would have been more applicable cuz he tried at least
It's pretty valid because it doesn't stop there. Let's say your team is a blowout or in the bottom of the standings. They don't show up to play or they lack the drive to make certain plays they would normally make or could make. There are many other scenarios, but people are choosing only to look at certain ones.
We have this ridiculous notion in our heads that we expect more out of everything. We aren't entertained? We criticize the players to death. Just like any other sport. Enough is enough.
What you described isn't honest and in itself disrespectful. Pro athletes do disrespectful things all the time. That isn't what we call trying. It's a ruse.
That's why sports fans boo when they know their team or certain individuals are playing like shit or aren't trying hard enough.
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What naniwa did went beyond not trying or refusing to play. He went on stage, and took a dump on it instead of just not going on the stage at all.
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Why do people insist on making their own topics/blogs on this? Post this in the discussion thread...
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On December 15 2011 15:35 KaslimDogs wrote:
I think it's unfair to compare what nani did to how squads rotate players, use weakened team, u refer to manchester united, the manager sends out a squad he feels is capable of winning (like how zergs try to hold attacks with as little as possible) it backfires sometimes but it isn't the same as throwing a game, if nani (sc2 player) 4gated or 2gated it would have been more applicable cuz he tried at least
A more appropriate comparison will be a team sending even their goalie in an all out attack in the BEGINNING of a match.
Will people accept Manchester United doing that in the Premier League?
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I have been saying this on every Nani-Gom thread,
Nani is a professional, and Gom is a business venture. Jobs require certain responsibilities.
Gom did the right thing. Nani needs to grow up
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Ok I am gonna use this post as a general reply thread.
On December 15 2011 15:25 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Maybe sometimes it's not about making money? Sometimes it's about retaining your dignity and not getting walked over by a brat in the same way MLG did. No one is above the game, no matter how much attention they bring. There is not a superstar bigger than starcraft 2 and GSL.
Yes. there are. Quite a few. White-ra and Boxer transcend SC2 quite easily. MVP, Nestea and MC transcend GSL as well.
Also this wasnt a GSL tournament. It was a GomTV tournament.
On December 15 2011 15:35 KaslimDogs wrote:
I think it's unfair to compare what nani did to how squads rotate players, use weakened team, u refer to manchester united, the manager sends out a squad he feels is capable of winning (like how zergs try to hold attacks with as little as possible) it backfires sometimes but it isn't the same as throwing a game, if nani (sc2 player) 4gated or 2gated it would have been more applicable cuz he tried at least
The incident I am referring to meant that the best players of Man United weren't in the country. I don't follow soccer enough to be able to mention who wasn't sent, but for instance Rooney wasn't in the country, where one or two older players were kept to retain stability. The rest of the team were those who were in line for development. It was perfectly valid for them to do this, if a bit sad that we didn't get to see Rooney :/.
On December 15 2011 15:33 Tppz! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 15:09 TheEconomist wrote:
In summation, I am not surprised at how Naniwa acted. If I had paid to watch that game, I would have been excited to see Classic Naniwa, reinventing BM in his own awkward style. I would have thought to myself "A best of one doesn’t mean anything anyway". I would have been ecstatic for the chance at a rematch between these two great players, and probably the most consistently performing foreigner (It's been a long time since TSL 3 yet Naniwa is still up there), And yet, I, and I am not alone, I am left with a feeling that GomTV messed up in handling a situation that could have been easily spun to their benefit. If this was as big a thing in Korean culture as many foreigners are saying, this would have sold MORE tickets, not less. This would have made the GSL more talked about, not less.
This is the type of controversy that would make a company huge, even get GSL trending as Tastosis desperately try. I just cannot help feel they made this decision badly.
What if people dont watch the games only because of the BM of Naniwa and wanted to see the Best of one? (Cause otherwise noone would have bought the ticket since most of the games are bo1). I also dont understand why there would be more tickets sold AFTER the incident if GOM wouldnt have "banned" Naniwa. Koreans would think GOM is just a lil p*ssy and any bad mannered player could go there and fuck with them, the audience and the sponsors. I dont think that a showing of complete disrespect would cause the koreans go crazy for future GSL tickets. It would have made GOM look like a joke. It wouldnt even be trending cause there arent enough Koreans for this that watch SC2.
It depends. If Gom had taken no action, or rather, a different action, such as withholding Naniwa's prize money for competing, how many people would have returned tickets?
How many people have stated that they are returning tickets due to the arbitrariness of the rules since what has happened, happened?
We can't know for sure, but I am fairly confident that they would have earnt more money in the former, not in the current latter scenario, as a journalist and e-sports fan. As an economist, I'm not making an opinion.
I am fairly certain however, as a person and sports fan, that the next time Naniwa played a Korean in GSL, I would be eagerly awaiting what inventive cheese and BM they designed JUST for him  . Along the same lines people designed builds JUST to get Idra on tilt.
On December 15 2011 15:33 Tppz! wrote:Show nested quote +2) This format, where those who were already eliminated were forced to play was out of the established norm for a GomTV tournament. In GSL Pool play, as soon as a player loses two games, they are no longer required to play. Likewise, in the most recent up & down's, when two players had no chance of advancing, I remember them as not having to play either.
Why was this specific tournament different?
By the time Naniwa vs Nestea had arrived, there was no difference in prize money. There was no chance of either advancing. This can be simplified down to a glorified show match between two people with an interesting rivalry.
The result was an organizer's dream result. Not only do these two players have a great, recent history, they were about to meet up in a Best of One to see who has improved the most.
"Does Naniwa have what it takes to keep down the God of Zerg? Will Nestea take revenge for the Swarm?
No! Naniwa does the unthinkable. He almost shouted it from the rooftops that the rematch will not be today. Not in this place. He will take the grudge further, and show that Nestea is not worth his time... for now.
With both of these players in the up & coming GSL season 1 2012 Code S, it's only a matter of time until these players meet up for revenge." Naniwa wasnt saying: no this match wont be played like this. He said: no f*ck you - i dont wanna play anymore today. A huge difference. Its nice that you are trying to create a hypothetical world with your words but this isnt hat happened.
No its not what happened. It can never happened. But it could have happened. I'm glad you recognize that its nice tho .
Actually. He did say it won't be played. The actions he did, and the reasons why ppl are upset with him is BECAUSE he refused to play a legitimate strat. his actions indicated that this match will not be played as other ppl want. As the audience we can only hope the next time they meet there would be even more history.
An actual Foreigner Korean rivalry getting going with ACTUAL meat to it, not just "oh he beat me 4 times in a game, i want revenge, haha lol" in the case of some Korean Terran repeatedly picking the guy that beats him every round. (Think it was TOP ? Can't remember who they were tho offhand. TvT iirc)
On December 15 2011 15:49 Itsmedudeman wrote:
What naniwa did went beyond not trying or refusing to play. He went on stage, and took a dump on it instead of just not going on the stage at all.
You could look at like that, or you could look at it that
1) he isn't Korean
2) He is Naniwa, and therefore crazy stuff like this can almost be expected
3) He had no hope in the rest of the tournament, and its almost unfair to expect him, as a professional gamer, to play his best in a game that means nothing (Read Tyler's views on that point, he puts it very clearly in a lot more words than this)
On December 15 2011 15:51 mizU wrote:
Why do people insist on making their own topics/blogs on this? Post this in the discussion thread...
I have been doing so. You'll find the exact post as the blog in the GomTV discussion thread. I just wanted to make sure I saw comments on it, as that was getting quite long and i'm particularly busy atm :D.
On December 15 2011 16:08 DarkwindHK wrote:
A more appropriate comparison will be a team sending even their goalie in an all out attack in the BEGINNING of a match.
Will people accept Manchester United doing that in the Premier League?
Possibly, but goalies are often used to shoot penalties. If a goalie has an opportunity to score, should he not take it like the rest of the team?
In a Fifa game, when disrespecting an opponent, even a AI, have you not scored with the keeper when you're playing Barcelona vs Kaiser Chiefs?
I am not defending Naniwa here. What he did was child-like, and not thought out. He should suffer some consequences. But at the same time, he has lost HUGE potential future earnings due to rules and decisions that were kept hidden from the scene, applied arbitrarily, not explained properly, and prevent a more recent grudge match of epic proportions.
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You get paid to do a job. Your job is to entertain people by playing Starcraft 2.
Sponsors, teams, tournament organisers, these people don't exist for you to make a career out of, they exist because of the audience which allows them to make the revenue which they use to sign your cheques.
It doesn't matter if you think a game is "pointless", the point is the people who are wanting to watch that match. Those are the people who drive e-sports. Naniwa can be replaced, the e-sports audience cannot.
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On December 15 2011 15:49 Itsmedudeman wrote:
What naniwa did went beyond not trying or refusing to play. He went on stage, and took a dump on it instead of just not going on the stage at all.
If he did not go on the stage at all, it would be like the Tevez incident (You may not know about it if you do not follow football, but a player in the English Premier League refused to play and lost a whole lot of face for it). Naniwa was obviously really upset about how he had lost two very close games. Viewers expect these players to be robots - not having emotions/feelings etc. If you have not been in the situation yourself, I don't believe that you should criticize Naniwa for what he did.
I sort of agree with GOM with punishing him, but the way they did it was way over the top imo.
I'm sort of in the middle of both arguments! I'm a massive Naniwa fan and I understand why he did it. But in the other hand, I understand why GOM was upset considering that the matchup between Naniwa vs Nestea was one that fans had looking forward to. Naniwa has know understood what he did wrong and has apologized for it.
I hope for the best for both partners and hope that Naniwa can participate in the next season of GSL!
(How long is a normal season of GSL anyway?)
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The old ones were just over a month, this one is slightly longer, the new one is supposed to be around three months iirc.
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This is what I replied to you on your original post in the announcement:
Nice long post with lots of points. I think a number of them are arguable. 1) Throwing matches in Sumo is statistically inferred but each match individually cannot be proven to have been thrown or not. So if Naniwa did the same, it would've been okay like the sumo wrestlers, because there is no way to tell, not that it is in any way actually okay, but he blatently threw the game. If the Sumo wrestlers did that, I'm sure there would've been consequences. It's just that no individual Sumo match could be proved to have been thrown. (emphasis on individual)
2) Teams do not send out their best players to weak teams because of few reasons: first could be to minimize injuries of their important players; second could be to give more experience to new ones; a third could be to see how a new player does. There could be more, but they don't play to lose and they just take a risk. As someone said, it would be more like Naniwa not using his best strategies, instead of just throwing the game.
3) Again and again, GOM did not state that Naniwa is a "money grubbing amatuer". Besides, to my knowledge, GOM never said money is not important. This is just taking their statement to an extreme and blowing it out of proportion. From what I read they are saying being a pro also means having standards.
4) All the players were given money for participating (minimum prize for lowest ones) from what I remember. I might be wrong on this one. But if so, they were paid to participate and play the games, thus I would assume, unlike other tournaments, that they actually play the game.
Also, from what I understand, the change in general GSL format was already released during the event. The main reason for the change in non-korean seeding is because now that the GSL leagues are more spaced out they don't coincide well 1 on 1 with the MLG events.
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EPT
