• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:12
CEST 02:12
KST 09:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?32Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris46Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Speculation of future Wardii series Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Monday Nights Weeklies
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
Simple editing of Brood War save files? (.mlx) ASL20 General Discussion Starcraft at lower levels TvP BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2310 users

Why do we still have the shroud of darkness?

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
fearus
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
China2164 Posts
January 03 2009 04:07 GMT
#1
I was thinking, why do we still have shroud of darkness in the game for multiplayer? It serves no real purpose. I understand the benefits of it for single player, since many missions requires exploration and the discovery aspects adds to the experience.

We already have map preview, which hardly ever accomplishes anything since the host usually just starts after dl. Nor is the 5-10seconds actually enough for u to spot all the expansions/islands/ramps/paths on a new map.

I think by removing the shroud, it would actually encourage a greater uptake of new maps being embraced and the currently occasional maps getting much more play.

Obviously this is aimed at the majority of casual and occasional players, the 90% python/hunters players. The starcraft fanatics who have about a dozen maps burnt into the back of their heads from jsut watching pro-league VODs will see no change in the shroud being removed.

Maybe they'll remove it in sc2?
bisu fanboy
Dark_Luster
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Korea (South)438 Posts
January 03 2009 04:10 GMT
#2
are you serious?
#1 Horangee fan
Entertaining
Profile Joined September 2007
Canada793 Posts
January 03 2009 04:10 GMT
#3
warcraft 3 u can take off fog of war, not like maphack just like uve explored it already and havnt gone back. im sure sc2 will have the option.
fearus
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
China2164 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-03 04:12:24
January 03 2009 04:11 GMT
#4
Fog of war and shroud of darkness are two different things. Thought I better point that out before confusion.
bisu fanboy
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8113 Posts
January 03 2009 04:13 GMT
#5
I'm pretty sure the darkness is already gone (in all the SC2 vids I've seen the entire minimap is just fog of war and there is no darkness). Darkness is dumb, that's why just about every RTS after SC doesn't have it

It really does help when you're learning new maps and stuff.
Free Palestine
Loanshark
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
China3094 Posts
January 03 2009 04:13 GMT
#6
Wouldn't this cause some balance issues because of worker drilling into someone's main, using the minerals?
No dough, no go. And no mercy.
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
January 03 2009 04:13 GMT
#7
I agree, it's really annoying and serves no real purpose except forcing players to memorize maps. I'm not sure if it's been answered before or we just didn't notice for SC2, but it might make a good karune question.
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-03 04:17:29
January 03 2009 04:14 GMT
#8
Is this a serious question?

Without the shroud, there would be no such thing as the element of surprise, and you would know exactly what your opponent was doing at all times, and vice versa.

There would be no point to scouting, there would be no point to hiding tech, proxying, cheese builds in general, unorthodox builds, etc.

Every move you make with your army would be perfectly visible, and setting up flanks and multi-fronted attacks would be near impossible. 90% of boxer's strategies from his long career would be useless.

Oh, and ZvT would be impossibly imbalanced, as would PvT.

There are many, many, many more reasons for keeping the shroud, but that alone should illustrate my point solidly.

EDIT:

Ok, my bad...shroud and fog are two different things apparently... -____-;;

Either way, I think in the early game, it does make a difference. I don't mind too much either way, but I do think it should be kept, as there's a difference between fogged land later in the game and still darkened areas. Those newer games where the darkness has been taken out completely sort of feel a bit cheapened in that way...

Especially as it feels like maphax to be able to set a rally at a precise location juuust outside of an enemy's base without even sending a scout there...
Hello
raiame
Profile Joined December 2007
United States421 Posts
January 03 2009 04:14 GMT
#9
On January 03 2009 13:13 Loanshark wrote:
Wouldn't this cause some balance issues because of worker drilling into someone's main, using the minerals?

No, otherwise you could just drill them after you already scouted someone even if you didn't have vision of their base. It'd be a lot harder to keep scouts out.
rushz0rz
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Canada5300 Posts
January 03 2009 04:16 GMT
#10
I think the shroud of darkness taken out would encourage players to try new maps and I wouldn't see every game on iccup being played on Python.
IntoTheRainBOw fan~
GogoKodo
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Canada1785 Posts
January 03 2009 04:17 GMT
#11
On January 03 2009 13:14 PH wrote:
Is this a serious question?

Without the shroud, there would be no such thing as the element of surprise, and you would know exactly what your opponent was doing at all times, and vice versa.

There would be no point to scouting, there would be no point to hiding tech, proxying, cheese builds in general, unorthodox builds, etc.

Every move you make with your army would be perfectly visible, and setting up flanks and multi-fronted attacks would be near impossible. 90% of boxer's strategies from his long career would be useless.

Oh, and ZvT would be impossibly imbalanced, as would PvT.

There are many, many, many more reasons for keeping the shroud, but that alone should illustrate my point solidly.


Shroud != fog of war
twitter: @terrancem
ahole-surprise
Profile Joined August 2007
United States813 Posts
January 03 2009 04:21 GMT
#12
If there was no shroud, I would definitely play more maps.
Pulp can move, baby!
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
January 03 2009 04:22 GMT
#13
lol @ the people who think he is talking about fog of war.

yes, the shroud of darkness should be taken off, and it obviously will be in sc2. They didnt have it in wc3, so it is safe to assume it wont be in sc2.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
January 03 2009 04:25 GMT
#14
This is a good suggestion/question, it really helps when playing on new maps to know where the expansions are, especially when you want to try new maps with your friends.
Jaedong
BalliSLife
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
1339 Posts
January 03 2009 04:27 GMT
#15
i'm guessing if you wanna improve you would look at what the map looks like anyways, but overall i think it's an awesome idea to remove it
Ya well, at least I don't fuck a fleshlight with a condom on and cry at the same time.
LeperKahn
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Romania1844 Posts
January 03 2009 04:30 GMT
#16
On January 03 2009 13:16 rushz0rz wrote:
I think the shroud of darkness taken out would encourage players to try new maps and I wouldn't see every game on iccup being played on Python.


Another benefit is that new maps would be far easier to explain to observers in a televised event.
CJ Entusman #14 • http://soundcloud.com/discodinosaur • https://discosaur.bandcamp.com/
Solinren
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2653 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-03 04:32:03
January 03 2009 04:31 GMT
#17
Whats wrong with your mini map being all black? Remembering the whole map is what makes Starcraft, well Starcraft to me. To know the map by heart and be able to exploit the map I think involves some skill towards playing the game so I like it.
hazz
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom570 Posts
January 03 2009 04:36 GMT
#18
The shroud of darkness should be removed imo, theres no skill in remembering the map (it only takes about 5 games to do so anyway and all it does is discourages new maps). In warcraft 3 if you explored part of the map then it was a slightly lighter tone than it was before it was explored (so you know where your units have went earlier in the game).
DanceCommander
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1808 Posts
January 03 2009 04:43 GMT
#19
Yea removing the shroud would encourage more different map playing instead of just stupid python all the time. It serves no real purpose.
Loanshark
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
China3094 Posts
January 03 2009 04:51 GMT
#20
On January 03 2009 13:14 raiame wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2009 13:13 Loanshark wrote:
Wouldn't this cause some balance issues because of worker drilling into someone's main, using the minerals?

No, otherwise you could just drill them after you already scouted someone even if you didn't have vision of their base. It'd be a lot harder to keep scouts out.


Yeah, but that's assuming you can get in the base to see the mins first. If the shroud is lifted, then worker drilling will probably have to be fixed, otherwise there's no way to keep scouts out of your base until you have enough units to kill the scout before it gets in.

The success rate of any build that relies on the enemy not scouting it beforehand will be reduced drastically because any early scout will just get in.
No dough, no go. And no mercy.
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL S2 Championship: Playoffs
CranKy Ducklings19
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 183
Vindicta 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15688
Artosis 879
Aegong 44
sSak 33
NaDa 21
yabsab 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever386
NeuroSwarm48
Counter-Strike
taco 79
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox436
Other Games
summit1g6571
FrodaN1055
shahzam940
C9.Mang0463
ViBE122
Trikslyr121
Livibee105
Maynarde66
Mew2King60
Nathanias29
JuggernautJason24
rGuardiaN22
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick638
BasetradeTV20
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH170
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 2
• sM.Zik 1
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22782
League of Legends
• Doublelift5529
• TFBlade622
Other Games
• imaqtpie1160
• Scarra1135
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
9h 48m
RSL Revival
9h 48m
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
Maestros of the Game
16h 48m
Classic vs TriGGeR
Reynor vs SHIN
OSC
1d 2h
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
1d 9h
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
Maestros of the Game
1d 16h
Serral vs Ryung
ByuN vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
1d 18h
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
2 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Solar vs Bunny
Clem vs Rogue
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Maru vs Lambo
herO vs ShoWTimE
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.