EPTIt's fun because I have 0 terran skills.
It's a 2 fact for those that don't know a 2 fact build.
From
http://www.pgr21.com/zboard4/zboard.php?id=daku&page=2&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=1625
The OP named it Super2Fact because he thought regular 2 fact sounds really lame.
This 2 fact is design to have the least amount of build variance as you play.
Within 10 seconds of DT's spawning, a comsat is up and your initial 3tank4vult will have 100 comsat in-case.
ForGG uses a very similar build with slight academy timing variations quite often.
Ofc, if you fail the initial 2 fact, you will become disadvantaged.
B.O.
8.5 Supply (@ Choke)
10.5 Rax
11.5 Gas
12.5 Supply (Finish wall with the scv already there)
15.5 Factory
17.5 Factory > Machine shops
20.5 Academy
22/26 Cut SCVs.
24/26 1st Tank.
24/26 Supply
28/34 2+3 Tanks
28 V. Speed Up
28 Comsat
28 Supply
32/34 2 Vultures
32/34 Mine Up.
36/42 2 Vultures
40/42 2 Reinforcement Vultures
40 Siege
3 Tank+4Vultures+SCVs are deployed to fight.
Rally the two vultures down while making an ebay at home.
Ebay finishes - 2 turrets in the main.
SCV count is up to the user.
If you wanna go all-in, get siege mode before resuming scvs.
You could also leave 1 gas on, see opponant's minerals, and drag along 10 scvs.
Otherwise, take about 3 scvs and deal some heavy damage and expo up front.
-Timing-
4:22 - 1st Tank
4:52 - Comsat
5:00 - 3rd Tank
5:43 - Speed Up
5:50 - Mine Up
6:00 - 100 Energy Comsat.
6:20 - Turrets in Main
6:40 - Siege Mode.
Scenarios
Because 2Fac is a control fight and micro build by nature, there isn't much to "coping"
Moment by moment, personal intuition to maximize damage with control is important.
However...
If the foolhardy toss went fast nexus (0-1 gate nexus)...
... send 3tank+scv while rallying the vultures down.
If getting sliced by DT's on the way down...
... act like you don't have scan and surprise gangbang the dt.
If the second DT comes...
... you had exactly two scans, so... ... then mine+turret the P's natural asap.
If DTs comes in your main...
... focus around the turrets and defend with vultures from there...
This is actually very very difficult. Very.
If a Reebo flies in...
... run all your scvs out asap and continue your rush. The reaver will be forced to withdraw. Quickly turret and siege up his nat.
-END-
PGR21 Comments, translated by AloneInDaBunker
TY TY TY TY.
+ Show Spoiler +
료상위해 (2008-08-24 23:07:39)
'상대가 어떤 빌드를 쓰건간에 전진한다' 마인드네요~
‘Advance no matter what build my opponent uses” mindset~
ajs1456 (2008-08-25 11:47:18)
이 빌드에 좀 더 강력한 걸 추가한다면,
투팩이후 전진 팩토리 한개 더 지어서
전진팩토리에서 탱크만, 본진 투팩에서 벌쳐만
이런식으로 하면 더 효과적이지 않을까 생각합니다^^
To make this build more powerful,
a proxy fact after two facts to exclusively produce tanks while producing vultures only from main base two facts might make it more efficient^^
ArtOfakirA (2008-08-25 12:48:00)
ajs1456님// 테란유저가아니라서 잘은모르겠지만 그렇게 하면 본진 방어가 취약하지않을까요? 탱크를 전진팩에서만 생산한다면
Ajs1456/ I’m not sure because I’m not a Terran player, but wouldn’t it sacrifice main base defense? To produce tanks only in proxy fact.
ajs1456 (2008-08-25 15:59:54)
제 설명이 부족하거나 애매할 수 도 있었나보네요^^;
일단 진출은 본진에서 탱크생산해서 가야하구요, 추가로 진출하면서 전진팩만들고 추가탱크는 전진팩에서 생산한다는 의미였습니다.
윗 댓글중에 료상위해님도 말씀하셨지만 이 빌드는 상대가 어떤 빌드를 쓰던 간에 전진한다는 뉘앙스가 강합니다.
본진 방어가 분명 취약할 수 있습니다. 하지만 그만큼 강력한 공격력을 가지게 되죠.
때론 상대방의 모든 대처를 생각하다보면 이도저도하닌 상황이 발생하게 됩니다.
날빌이나 올인러쉬등을 생각해 볼 때 와 비슷한 경우라 생각하시면 될 것입니다.^^
My explanation might have been lacking in its clarity^^;
Tanks in the first army to advance would be from main base facts, the proxy fact would be built as reinforcements are added and additional tanks are produced from proxy fact from there on.
Like 료상위해 said in earlier comment, the point of this strategy is to advance no matter what build protoss uses. The defense of main base might be weak, but you get that much more strength in offense.
Think of it as a kind of All-in rush.
장자(OP) (2008-08-26 00:22:40)
ajs1456 님// 제 생각에는 진출하면서 전진팩을 늘리고 거기에 에드온까지 달아서 탱크를 생산할 쯤이면 교전이 종료되어서 토스에게 투팩병력으로 조여서 상황이 유리해 졌던지, 둘이 비등비등해 졌던지, 혹은 테란이 컨트롤싸움에서 졌던지 결과가 나와있을 상황입니다.
처음에 에스시브이 다수를 동원해서 아예 끝장 낼 생각이 아니라면 최대한 피해를 준 후에 앞마당을 먹는 편이 좋다고 생각합니다.
Ajs1456// In my opinion, by the time you build proxy fact and add-on to produce tanks as you reinforce army, main battle would be already over to make the situation either advantageous for you with successful protoss containment, or disadvantageous with loss in control battle, or same for both sides.
If you didn’t intend to All-in with many SCVs, I think your best bet is to deal most possible damage and expand.
그대는눈물겹다 (2008-08-26 00:29:06)
토스가 노말하게 투겟옵드라 빌드라면 정말 컨트롤 싸움이 되고 한번 컨트롤 싸움에서 지면 끝이네요...
It would be a real control battle if protoss goes its usual two gates obs-dragoon build. So one defeat in control battle is fatal.
장자 (2008-08-26 00:35:20)
음... 왠지 투겟 옵드라가 노말하다는 말이 어색하게 들리는건 저 뿐일까요
Hmm.. Is it only me or does “usual two gates obs-dragoon build” sound wrong.”
광빠라능 (2008-08-26 10:24:26)
확실히 요즘의 대세는 더블넥이니까요... 최소한 2지선다?
Recent trend is double nexus….
ajs1456 (2008-08-26 11:18:54)
저야 물량싸움이 지겨워져서 멀티없이 끝장보는 플레이를 요즘 많이 해서 쓴 댓글이였습니다.
확실히 안전하면서도 유리한 운영은 장자님 말씀이 맞는 것 같네요^^;
I wrote that comment because I was tired of macro war so I now play to win without expansion.
I think what 장자(author) said is safer and creates more advantageous game flow^^;
공유 (2008-08-26 14:44:36)
제가 투팩 자주 쓰면서 느낀건 옵드라 보다 더블넥이 더 무섭더군요.
옵드라는 대충 삐까하게 싸워줘도 멀티가 크게 늦지 않지만 더블넥은 옵저버가 늦는대신
게이트를 빨리 늘려서 병력 보유량이 많기 때문에 파일런과 배터리로 버티면 테란이 크게 불리해집니다.
저는 14팩15팩을 늘리는, 최단 시간에 2팩을 늘리는 빌드를 즐겨쓰는데 스타팅이 멀게 걸리면 더블넥이라도 이기기 힘들었습니다.
From my experiences using two fact strategies, double nexus is more threatening than obs-goon.
You can have an expansion that is not too late with less than excellent success in fights with your opponent using obs-goon. However, double nexus makes up its late observer with fast increase in number of gates to maintain army size. So protoss gains high advantage if he manges to hold on with pylon and battery.
I enjoy 14fact15fact, which builds two facts fastest, but I still had hard time against double nexus protoss in opposite starting point.
칼 (2008-08-28 09:23:05)
질럿 드라군 프로브 다수 잡으면 게임이 끝나는거죠
넥서스 살아있고 프로브 피해 거의 없고 투팩 병력 + 질럿 드라군 동시에 다 잃으면 플토가 훨씬 좋은거고..
프로브 조금 죽어도 넥서스가 두개라 괜찮고..
여튼 투팩은 앞마당을 날리거나 아니면 프로브를 진짜 이 잡듯 다 잡아내야합니다
The game is over if you manage to kill mass zealots+goons+probes.
Protoss is better off if nexus is not destroyed, only small damage to probes, and both armies perished. Protoss better off even with some probe kills since its double nexus…
So two fact strategy’s success requires destroying protoss expansion nexus or score mass probes.
장자 (2008-08-29 00:32:32)
박지수선수가 김구현선수랑 콜로세움에서 할 때(아레나 MSL 8강 1경기,5경기, 프로리그 경기) 쓴 투팩이랑 비슷합니다. 다른점이라면 아카데미가 약간 늦다는 정도구요
This build is similar to the one Never used against GooJoLa on Coliseum(Arena MSL RO8 1st and 5th match, proleague match). Only different thing is that this strategy has a bit slower academy.
'상대가 어떤 빌드를 쓰건간에 전진한다' 마인드네요~
‘Advance no matter what build my opponent uses” mindset~
ajs1456 (2008-08-25 11:47:18)
이 빌드에 좀 더 강력한 걸 추가한다면,
투팩이후 전진 팩토리 한개 더 지어서
전진팩토리에서 탱크만, 본진 투팩에서 벌쳐만
이런식으로 하면 더 효과적이지 않을까 생각합니다^^
To make this build more powerful,
a proxy fact after two facts to exclusively produce tanks while producing vultures only from main base two facts might make it more efficient^^
ArtOfakirA (2008-08-25 12:48:00)
ajs1456님// 테란유저가아니라서 잘은모르겠지만 그렇게 하면 본진 방어가 취약하지않을까요? 탱크를 전진팩에서만 생산한다면
Ajs1456/ I’m not sure because I’m not a Terran player, but wouldn’t it sacrifice main base defense? To produce tanks only in proxy fact.
ajs1456 (2008-08-25 15:59:54)
제 설명이 부족하거나 애매할 수 도 있었나보네요^^;
일단 진출은 본진에서 탱크생산해서 가야하구요, 추가로 진출하면서 전진팩만들고 추가탱크는 전진팩에서 생산한다는 의미였습니다.
윗 댓글중에 료상위해님도 말씀하셨지만 이 빌드는 상대가 어떤 빌드를 쓰던 간에 전진한다는 뉘앙스가 강합니다.
본진 방어가 분명 취약할 수 있습니다. 하지만 그만큼 강력한 공격력을 가지게 되죠.
때론 상대방의 모든 대처를 생각하다보면 이도저도하닌 상황이 발생하게 됩니다.
날빌이나 올인러쉬등을 생각해 볼 때 와 비슷한 경우라 생각하시면 될 것입니다.^^
My explanation might have been lacking in its clarity^^;
Tanks in the first army to advance would be from main base facts, the proxy fact would be built as reinforcements are added and additional tanks are produced from proxy fact from there on.
Like 료상위해 said in earlier comment, the point of this strategy is to advance no matter what build protoss uses. The defense of main base might be weak, but you get that much more strength in offense.
Think of it as a kind of All-in rush.
장자(OP) (2008-08-26 00:22:40)
ajs1456 님// 제 생각에는 진출하면서 전진팩을 늘리고 거기에 에드온까지 달아서 탱크를 생산할 쯤이면 교전이 종료되어서 토스에게 투팩병력으로 조여서 상황이 유리해 졌던지, 둘이 비등비등해 졌던지, 혹은 테란이 컨트롤싸움에서 졌던지 결과가 나와있을 상황입니다.
처음에 에스시브이 다수를 동원해서 아예 끝장 낼 생각이 아니라면 최대한 피해를 준 후에 앞마당을 먹는 편이 좋다고 생각합니다.
Ajs1456// In my opinion, by the time you build proxy fact and add-on to produce tanks as you reinforce army, main battle would be already over to make the situation either advantageous for you with successful protoss containment, or disadvantageous with loss in control battle, or same for both sides.
If you didn’t intend to All-in with many SCVs, I think your best bet is to deal most possible damage and expand.
그대는눈물겹다 (2008-08-26 00:29:06)
토스가 노말하게 투겟옵드라 빌드라면 정말 컨트롤 싸움이 되고 한번 컨트롤 싸움에서 지면 끝이네요...
It would be a real control battle if protoss goes its usual two gates obs-dragoon build. So one defeat in control battle is fatal.
장자 (2008-08-26 00:35:20)
음... 왠지 투겟 옵드라가 노말하다는 말이 어색하게 들리는건 저 뿐일까요
Hmm.. Is it only me or does “usual two gates obs-dragoon build” sound wrong.”
광빠라능 (2008-08-26 10:24:26)
확실히 요즘의 대세는 더블넥이니까요... 최소한 2지선다?
Recent trend is double nexus….
ajs1456 (2008-08-26 11:18:54)
저야 물량싸움이 지겨워져서 멀티없이 끝장보는 플레이를 요즘 많이 해서 쓴 댓글이였습니다.
확실히 안전하면서도 유리한 운영은 장자님 말씀이 맞는 것 같네요^^;
I wrote that comment because I was tired of macro war so I now play to win without expansion.
I think what 장자(author) said is safer and creates more advantageous game flow^^;
공유 (2008-08-26 14:44:36)
제가 투팩 자주 쓰면서 느낀건 옵드라 보다 더블넥이 더 무섭더군요.
옵드라는 대충 삐까하게 싸워줘도 멀티가 크게 늦지 않지만 더블넥은 옵저버가 늦는대신
게이트를 빨리 늘려서 병력 보유량이 많기 때문에 파일런과 배터리로 버티면 테란이 크게 불리해집니다.
저는 14팩15팩을 늘리는, 최단 시간에 2팩을 늘리는 빌드를 즐겨쓰는데 스타팅이 멀게 걸리면 더블넥이라도 이기기 힘들었습니다.
From my experiences using two fact strategies, double nexus is more threatening than obs-goon.
You can have an expansion that is not too late with less than excellent success in fights with your opponent using obs-goon. However, double nexus makes up its late observer with fast increase in number of gates to maintain army size. So protoss gains high advantage if he manges to hold on with pylon and battery.
I enjoy 14fact15fact, which builds two facts fastest, but I still had hard time against double nexus protoss in opposite starting point.
칼 (2008-08-28 09:23:05)
질럿 드라군 프로브 다수 잡으면 게임이 끝나는거죠
넥서스 살아있고 프로브 피해 거의 없고 투팩 병력 + 질럿 드라군 동시에 다 잃으면 플토가 훨씬 좋은거고..
프로브 조금 죽어도 넥서스가 두개라 괜찮고..
여튼 투팩은 앞마당을 날리거나 아니면 프로브를 진짜 이 잡듯 다 잡아내야합니다
The game is over if you manage to kill mass zealots+goons+probes.
Protoss is better off if nexus is not destroyed, only small damage to probes, and both armies perished. Protoss better off even with some probe kills since its double nexus…
So two fact strategy’s success requires destroying protoss expansion nexus or score mass probes.
장자 (2008-08-29 00:32:32)
박지수선수가 김구현선수랑 콜로세움에서 할 때(아레나 MSL 8강 1경기,5경기, 프로리그 경기) 쓴 투팩이랑 비슷합니다. 다른점이라면 아카데미가 약간 늦다는 정도구요
This build is similar to the one Never used against GooJoLa on Coliseum(Arena MSL RO8 1st and 5th match, proleague match). Only different thing is that this strategy has a bit slower academy.
If anyone has suggestions or such, I will gladly update or even put variations up there.
Merry Christmas Noob Terrans. lol... terran users.
