EPTCanata vs July @ Arcadia
http://senseofstar.blogspot.com/
new post ~Gosu~ in case anyone missed it.
Analysis of Canata's Control
| Forum Index > BW General |
|
Physician
United States4146 Posts
Canata vs July @ Arcadia http://senseofstar.blogspot.com/ new post ~Gosu~ in case anyone missed it. | ||
|
PanoRaMa
United States5070 Posts
 . | ||
|
SCNewb
Canada2210 Posts
It was an excellent read......the writer did an awesome analysis....simply amazing =O | ||
|
TreK
Sweden2089 Posts
with reflex moves i meant, not something he has specifically practised for but something that just will happen automatically ... just like a reflex save by a soccer keeper, all in my opinion ofcourse. very nice vs the muttas to be able to aim them out one by one tho, seems very effective the games ive seen it | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
but great read nonetheless. | ||
|
DaZe
Sweden2111 Posts
on some lvl of smartness he must know what he is doing but mostly its just a feeling how he moves his units. you can pick any rep or vod with progamers and try to analyze every attack and you will find things they themselves didnt even think off before you said it ;o (ok maybe that was far-fetched but you get the point ;O) | ||
|
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
| ||
|
Refrain[FriZ]
Canada4337 Posts
| ||
|
evanthebouncy!
United States12815 Posts
And tops it up w/ video in the end, very nice. Awesome blog. | ||
|
Zeto
United States2290 Posts
| ||
|
SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Watch Proleague games like vs Luxury etc. Even in games he loses, Canata has a lot of interesting things he does. vs Pusan, his tank formation was cool. vs Luxury, his port and map control was nice. etc etc.. then there were his OSL games T.T | ||
|
BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
| ||
|
DarK]N[exuS
China1441 Posts
On November 26 2006 00:17 BlackJack wrote: so much analysis for something so trivial? I don't think winning a fight like Canata won was trivial, and anyways at the pro level nothing is trivial. TT | ||
|
useLess
United States4781 Posts
| ||
Last Romantic
United States20667 Posts
Very nice, though. That blog is really quite interesting. | ||
|
WhatisProtoss
Korea (South)2325 Posts
On November 25 2006 21:01 TreK[cF] wrote: Was all reflex moves imo, every terran that has played 10 000 tvz will automatically not have his marines in a big fucking group when they are attempted to get surrounded, doubt it was something he planned in his head when julyzerg went for the attack... it was just something he saw was needed to be done to not loose all his marines in 3 spines, if that was what you/the writer meant.I didnt really see his tanks specifically aim either, maybe they did tho. with reflex moves i meant, not something he has specifically practised for but something that just will happen automatically ... just like a reflex save by a soccer keeper, all in my opinion ofcourse. very nice vs the muttas to be able to aim them out one by one tho, seems very effective the games ive seen it I completely agree. When you're microing marines against lurkers and zerglings, there's no way you will aim the fire of your tanks; I guarantee it. Canata's marine movement is not different from the other progamers, nor does he move them the way that writer said he does. He doesn't move them right after the lurkers burrow.... As all theorycraft is, I believe that it's too much thought vs. the actual playing. The players do not think about such things, as time delay between the Lurker burrow and initial attack. You can see that, despite what the writer says, Canata does not show the same movement in the first only-marine clip as opposed to the second battle, where July runs his entire army into Canata's sieged tanks. Canata moves his marines a split second BEFORE the lurkers burrow. What, was he getting impatient instead of waiting until the lurkers burrowed? Or was he getting scared by the frog-hopping lurkers? Good analysis, but it's trying to analyze Canata too much and tries to stereotype his marine movement as being different or "unique." Not the case. | ||
|
sCV
Jamaica246 Posts
| ||
|
Physician
United States4146 Posts
I would rather argue they are a myriad of motor, photo-cortical complex reflexes, all the product of many years of training and each guided by semi-conscious decision that a are triggered by higher more conscious decisions. The mind is a wonderful thing and these so called "reflexes" do not come out of no where, but years of training and a sharp mind. In the National Geographic pro-gaming documentary they even mention this from a neurophysiology point of view: how extra areas of the brain light up in a functional PET scan of the mind of a pro-gamers gaming when compared to regular gamers. A simple example being someone who types at 150 words per minute, he thinks the words, and the rest are almost just reflexes, i.e a series of complex reflexes. Except in the case of pro-gamer these complex reflexes involve not only motor reflexes but also photo-cortical reflexes and a subconscious tactical decision tree, all under a hierarchy of conscious decision making! And thus some one who saw and realized this, analyzed it step by step, in awe and admiration. Behold he says, the sense of star, behold the pro-gamers mind. Mere reflexes? I see a very astute writer who is far more clever than most his readers. | ||
|
WhatisProtoss
Korea (South)2325 Posts
On November 26 2006 02:27 Physician wrote: Mere reflexes? I would rather argue they are a myriad of motor, photo-cortical complex reflexes, all the product of many years of training and each guided by semi-conscious decision that a are triggered by higher more conscious decisions. The mind is a wonderful thing and these so called "reflexes" do not come out of no where, but years of training and a sharp mind. In the National Geographic pro-gaming documentary they even mention this from a neurophysiology point of view: how extra areas of the brain light up in a functional PET scan of the mind of a pro-gamers gaming when compared to regular gamers. A simple example being someone who types at 150 words per minute, he thinks the words, and they rest are almost just reflexes. Except in the case of pro-gamer these complex reflexes involve not only motor reflexes but also photo-cortical reflexes and a subconscious tactical decision tree, all under a hierarchy of conscious decision making! And thus some one who saw and realized this, analyzed it step by step, in awe and admiration. Behold he says, the sense of star, behold the pro-gamers mind. Mere reflexes? I see a very astute writer who is far more clever than most his readers. Hmmm.... I see many problems with what you are saying. I believe you do not know what reflexes are. There are such things as "conditioned" reflexes: a reaction in response to something learned through experience. That definitely is what the progamers have. As for "photo-cortical" reflexes, I know such things do not exist. There is no such thing. You can't just throw together a bunch of Latin words and slap it onto "reflexes." How did you come up with that name? Motor reflexes exist, as you mentioned. However... a subconscious tactical decision tree, all under a hierarchy of conscious decision making What is this? So, what you're saying is.... an ordered list of subconscious tactical decisions is directly related to an ordered list of conscious decisions? So, that's saying the same thing, thus: conscious = subconscious?? Is that not an oxymoron? I would like to point out that you should not believe everything that a simple video from National Geographic says. Knowledge is most satisfying when you feed yourself, not when somebody feeds you. Between an amateur gamer and a progamer, the difference, as you said, is significant. But, the amount of brain activity is NOT different. The difference is only in the area of activity. Progamers rely on past experience, while amateurs rely more on their visual processing. Experience and skill does not mean that you are utilizing more of your brain, or using this "photo-cortical reflex." This writer is skilled, yes. He has a good grasp on Starcraft theory. But as all "theorycraft" goes, it does not win over true experience. The readers here are experienced and can make constructive criticism on this writer's thoughts. He should not be able to write without the readers voicing their own opinion (which is not less valuable in ANY way). | ||
Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
The first one. Perhaps he did aim at the mutalisks, but I rather think he simply had attacked the mutalisks first because they were infront. And they seemed like already damaged mutalisks, which made them die pretty easily. The running from lurkers that followed is pretty obvious to any gamer. The "timing" I don't think was intentional. The second game, splitting tank position. Yes he did do that on purpose I agree, but I see many players do that now. As for position picking, I don't think he saw that and purposely aimed for it. I rather think he scanned and saw where the zerg's force was, and just put himself in battle-ready position. And moving marines vs lurkers.... also obvious. In situations like these, when he has 6-7 tanks, the terran obviously does not stay in one spot or move back. They move them around a little to minimize damage, but the tanks will killl them all within the next 2 seconds. The "timing" again, I don't think is intentional (nor do I think was anything special).... it all seemed like normal regular battles. Non-theless, good read. Very nice photos. | ||
| ||
