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Day_Walker
104 Posts
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
Balla24 - Town + Show Spoiler + On January 06 2014 07:29 Balla24 wrote: Who's gonna help me create a tough environment for mafia to hide in & help me lynch some mafia? If so, how do you suggest we proceed in day 1? My top priorities are - to start the game at a very high pace, to make sure that lurking is not only discouraged but also easy to spot and call out. - immediately start some conversation by having some arguments (this is where its a bit tricky), we need people to fos right away when they feel off about somebody so that we can start reading each other. I didn't like this post at first, because trying to manufacture arguments for their own sake seems like a good way to get townies to fight each other. But Balla24 followed up with posts like this: On January 06 2014 07:44 Balla24 wrote: @Asuna how do you feel about TheChyz's entry post? which is creating discussion, not argument. I think posts like this are a great way to stimulate discussion, hear other people's reads, and get your own reads on the answerer. I also got a good impression from these posts: On January 06 2014 08:23 Balla24 wrote: Let's hear some opinions on some people. Sidesprang what do you think of OWB and thechyz so far? etc etc Be analytical. I'm already feeling a bit weird with thechyz but it's preliminary obviously and i'm waiting for him to post some more. On January 06 2014 09:07 Balla24 wrote: On Thechyz: The contradiction point is interesting.... I would actually attribute that more to genuinely wanting to start some conversation by having some contradiction early on. Not sure if that was his intention though. We'll see. The first post has more good discussion prompting, but what I really like is that Balla24 tentatively went after TheChyz, then eased up in a later post. This feels more like a townie who isn't sure of people's roles than a scum who already knows the good (non-scum) lynch targets. TheChyz - Scum + Show Spoiler + He starts off suggesting that we lynch lurkers: On January 06 2014 07:35 TheChyz wrote: I agree with lurking to be discouraged by just lynching them for the most part. If they are scum then that's an easy kill, if they are town they provide nothing helpful and might cause some confusion in finding actual scum. I agree that we want to discourage lurking, but I think his post is a lot less level-headed and a lot more lynch-happy than these next two posts, which I liked: On January 06 2014 08:16 sidesprang wrote: Oh, Balla not Bella, sorry. And I got mad cause people wrote my name wrong last game :O Anyhow, regarding the lurker situation, I will +1 Balla's idea. As long as we get everyone to contribute in some way it will make the game so much easier. But for my experience lurkers are not more mafia than town, my last game two lurkers got modkilled day 3 and they were both town, so we should push them to contribute and not blindly lynch them because of it. If we get to the end of day1 and we have no strong scumreads I can support a lurkerlynch just because that could be the best option. But untill then I won't be talking about lynching lurkers. On January 06 2014 08:13 onlywonderboy wrote: Are policy debates generally considered to be distracting? I find analyzing people's opinions on policy and trying to find scum based on that more productive than just lynching lurkers. I agree with other people's reads that TheChyz's response to Balla24 was fishy, and as Suki said, put words in Balla24's mouth: On January 06 2014 10:15 suki wrote: Hi everyone, let me just get right into this. Let me get this straight. TheChyz is implying that Balla, by promoting an active town and "lynching" lurkers, helps Balla if he's scum. What? I want to point out that nobody said anything about lynching lurkers at this point except TheChyz himself, who seems to be putting the words in Balla's mouth. Discouraging lurking is not scum play. It is a good idea to let everybody know from the start that lurking will be considered suspicious behaviour, because whether or not they are ultimately lynched for it, lurking is not helpful to town. I find TheChyz's logic flawed, and I really don't like the way he misrepresented what Balla said and then accused him of scum motivations for that misrepresentation. TheChyz please explain to us why discouraging (or even lynching) lurkers is beneficial to a scum Balla but not a townie Balla. ##vote TheChyz Also, I personally found it suspicious that TheChyz didn't respond to Balla24's question even though TheChyz was active at the time: On January 06 2014 08:08 TheChyz wrote: Hi "nobody", I'm TheChyz. onlywonderboy - Town + Show Spoiler + His posts have been pretty vanilla town - nothing a good scum coudn't fake, but I do get the vibe of someone who is reasonable and pro-town. I especially liked this post: On January 06 2014 07:54 onlywonderboy wrote: I don't feel like the IC should just have free reign to mess around. We know he's not scum but I still felt the need to say why his read may be off. I know you're all about hunting scum, but there's value in not sparking early suspicion on people who may be town. My main goal this game is to be more active and contribute meaningful analysis to the town. This may seem basic, but I've failed at it the last couple games so I'm hoping to actually follow through with it this time. I think his point about the IC is a good one, and the fact that he is willing to disagree with the IC makes him seem less like a defensive scum and more like an honest townie. Sidesprang - Town + Show Spoiler + As I said TheChyz's section, I liked this post of his: On January 06 2014 08:16 sidesprang wrote: Oh, Balla not Bella, sorry. And I got mad cause people wrote my name wrong last game :O Anyhow, regarding the lurker situation, I will +1 Balla's idea. As long as we get everyone to contribute in some way it will make the game so much easier. But for my experience lurkers are not more mafia than town, my last game two lurkers got modkilled day 3 and they were both town, so we should push them to contribute and not blindly lynch them because of it. If we get to the end of day1 and we have no strong scumreads I can support a lurkerlynch just because that could be the best option. But untill then I won't be talking about lynching lurkers. I agree with chinstrap's post On January 06 2014 08:47 chinstrap wrote: My reads on the initial are: Balla24 is towny as hell assuming continuation of current activity levels (hence ##Unvote onlywonderboy: Leaning town unless his initial post is some next level scum play TheChyz: Strangly defensive but that doesnt have to mean scum, probably most questionable so far sidesprang: While I totally agreed with his post it is somewhat meaningless policy in my opinion (very straightforward post as scum) hence why i find policy debates distracting Asuna: No real read we'll see how activity / posting patterns continue that this is an easy scum post, but encouraging participation is still a pro-town thing to do, so I'm inclined to give sidesprang the benefit of the doubt. Asune - Town + Show Spoiler + All of his statements have been been pretty vanilla, but I do like his responsiveness to questions: e.g. On January 06 2014 07:55 Asuna wrote: If you mean the one that's basically kill the quiet people, sounds like every mafia game I've ever played. So, call this a very weak town read. theDragoon - Town + Show Spoiler + On January 06 2014 09:55 theDragoon wrote: Guys, this is very difficult compared to mafia IRL. But if I'm to go with my experience playing with friends, the most vocal people at the start who try to take control of the game tend to be mafia. Random accusations seem suspicious as well, so based on what's been posted so far, my eye is on Balla24, sidesprang and TheChyz. On January 06 2014 10:02 theDragoon wrote: I didn't call you out for random accusations, I was referring to being very vocal and trying to take control right at the start, something the bad guys tend to do, in my experience. Not afraid of get into disagreements, and willing to stand up to the people he accuses (at least until he left the thread. Hmm) . Doesn't seem like cautious scum play. chinstrap - Scum + Show Spoiler + Notice how he will never let you pull on his beard. I think this is because he is scum wearing a Lenin mask. The real Vladimir Lenin is probably locked in chinstrap's basement So those are my thoughts. I was pretty liberal with the block-quoting inside the spoilers. If you think I went over the top with that, let me know. Also @Balla24 On January 06 2014 10:42 Balla24 wrote: What's up with people posting and dis-appearing right after? Having conversations in this game is the best way to get reads off people and move in a proper direction. Please make time to actually sit in the thread and talk to people. I'm probably going to be guilty of this, making big posts like the one above and then leaving. If you ask me direction questions like you've been asking other people, that may help me sprinkle in some smaller posts when I have time to sit in the thread and discuss things. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 06 2014 11:41 Balla24 wrote: Onto what you actually said: What do you mean by this, similar to what I asked thechyz, can you elaborate? I find it interesting cause you seemingly said a very similar thing to chyz but are suspicious of him for not answering my question about it... When you say "argument", I think of communication that is adversarial, aggressive, and uncooperative, the kind of interaction that makes people dislike each other afterwards. This seems like a bad way to start when we have no idea who is friend and who is enemy. When I say "discussion", I think of being able to communicate the same content but without the hostility. In practice I think you are promoting discussion not argument, so maybe this is just a matter of semantics. On January 06 2014 15:53 Balla24 wrote: Well then, who would you lynch at this point? At least 2 people. There's very little information out at the moment. TheChyz and Onlywonderboy. Chyz for the reasons I gave before, although I have some doubts I'll share in a moment. Onlywonderboy because I reread his filter from the scum perspective, and I could see it making sense as scum play. On January 06 2014 13:17 Balla24 wrote: Leaning scum. Like I said I don't like the type of post he made, and even though its not inherently scummy, it's anti-town. However, I don't like how he picks on you for not answering my question. That's really easy to pick on, since it's REALLY common for people to miss questions. I also don't like his reasoning for the town read on dragoon... Of course you're going to stand up to the people you accuse... this seems REALLY forced. "Doesn't seem like cautious scum play", what does this even mean? I had this in mind from the General Guide: Indecision and a conspicuous lack of finger-pointing are also key mafia traits because of their perceived need to keep their story straight and avoid self-contradictions. On January 06 2014 13:36 Balla24 wrote: @Day_Walker: Why did you leave suki off your list? You clearly included her in some of the reasoning, but didn't post a section for her.... I realized that I was saying a lot of "not too much here, probably town", so I stopped and just posted what I had. In retrospect the post would have been stronger if I had just focused on my read of the interaction between you and Chyz. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 06 2014 12:08 TheChyz wrote: ... If you think I'm scum why not put your vote where your mouth is? ... before he claimed he was bandwagon baiting, which would give him a lot more credibility in my book, but that was actually in the same post. As townie, stirring up argument by making yourself a bandwagon target seems like a bad move if it guarantees a townie gets the first lynch. It only makes sense if you think you can successfully deflect the lynch later ... which Chyz may yet do. Also his quote above and his immediate vote for me do match the aggressive, risk-taking, bandwagon-baiting playstyle that he is claiming. I'm less sure than I was, but I'm not entirely sold on what Chyz is saying now, and I still think he is the most likely scum. @TheChyz If I had to vote now I would vote for you, but I don't see any reason to vote right away for the first person that looks more scummy than the rest. I'll be voting close to the deadline unless I really strongly feel someone is scum. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
I agree JonnyLaw is going after people for what could easily be newbie mistakes (I mean this is a newbie game right?) but at the same time he is targeting weak play and convenient scum excuses. You came back at him really aggressively, and I'm curious if you have anything more to say about On January 06 2014 15:58 Asuna wrote: ... Forget about Chyz being my #1 most scummy, you're the new #1. You just don't feel quite town, something doesn't fit right. ... I get that Jonny isn't exactly saying nice things about you, but this is a pretty weak accusation. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 06 2014 15:49 theDragoon wrote: That's enough of a reason to lynch Asuna? I don't see that as good enough to suspect Asuna of being mafia, unless you know more than what you've said there. Those 3 things you listed there is just a sign of an inexperienced player, it has nothing to do with being a scum. Off the top of my head I can think of only two scenarios where this is consistent with theDragoon scum AND Asuna townie: 1) Scum are protecting some townies to make things harder to read. 2) Scum are trying to make it easier to play the "I'm a newbie" card. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 06 2014 20:30 BigDad wrote: ... Asuna's perspective here is understandable, and I feel that his direct and almost accusatory play strengthens a townie read on him. This is because a good Townie doesn't fear being lynched as long as his death brings solid information. So far a Townie read on Asuna. If Asuna were lynched right now, and we discovered that he was a townie, what solid information do we get? I suppose it makes it a bit more likely that Jonny is scum, but it would also be plausible that Jonny just went after newbie play too aggressively, and we are left with nothing I would call solid. Am I missing something? | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
I'm not sure I agree with your second paragraph, and I definitely don't agree that Asuna's aggressive play gives us a strong town read. I think Asuna's actions make sense as 1) the defensive backlash of a wrongly accused townie 2) the defensive backlash of a rightly accused scum so really I have no idea and think we just need to wait and see more. @chinstrap Good spot. I gotta say that Suki doesn't look very good right now. Also I'd like to call attention to dnyarri's first post: On January 06 2014 20:05 dnyarri wrote: I think TheChyz is suspicious. First he says (s)he wants so lynch lurkers anyway. When people started to suspect him/her (s)he said that (s)he did it on purpose to catch bandwagoners. Bandwagons however give lurkers easy targets which seems contradicts his/her original agenda of lynching lurkers. Also, TheChyz has only brought confusion and only potentially useful analysis (s)he has brought to table is against Day_Walker who was attacking TheChyz with the list. It appears more like TheChyz is trying to save his/her skin. Though I think Day_Walker is suspicious because of the list, I find TheChyz more suspicious and I don't believe that as a scum Day_Walker would attack another scums this early. ##Vote: TheChyz Comes in, summarizes the case against the biggest target, adds a bit of original stuff, drops the lynch vote. I can't fault them for suspecting TheChyz, but there was no follow-up, no questions asked. Can we agree that this is not not scummy? | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:05 suki wrote: Here, Dragoon defends Asuna by hinting that Jonny knows more than what he's said. I think this is a possible scum slip, as only mafia are really ever thinking about hiding information. Hmm. Jonny himself brings up the possibility that he is holding back information, but does so after theDragoon does: On January 06 2014 16:56 JonnyLaw wrote: Chyz has 5 real posts. I'm not laying my entire thought process out there unless it's needed to secure a lynch. Why telegraph your hunting for scum to adapt? His quick daywalker vote is the only part that strikes me as being off. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 07 2014 08:19 JonnyLaw wrote: That's what I'm thinking Balla but I don't want to even mess with bigdad until dragoon's handled. Right now it sounds like you have both BigDad and theDragoon pegged as scum. I read BigDad's filter, his first four content posts all point suspicion at theDragoon. Based on that, I have a hard time believing they are both scum. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 07 2014 05:27 onlywonderboy wrote: Although now that I refresh the page I see that the discussion has sort of shifted away from Derrida. My main scum reads at the moment are Dragoon and Day_Walker. They seem to be interacting a decent amount, which isn't inherently scummy, but they go out of there way to distance themselves from each other. Dragoon says "For the record, I want to make it clear that I never said I completely trust Day_Walker," Then Day_Walker says: I understand wanting to get out ahead of these accusations, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it simply because he pushed Dragoon slightly. These just seem like they are trying to distance themselves early so if either if them go down we don't suspect them as a scum pair. BigDad's post here was (I believe) the first to bring up the possibility of a me + Dragoon scum pair. I respond with the post you quoted above, effectively defending Dragoon by pointing out a flaw in BigDad's Asuna town, Dragoon scum read, and preface it by acknowledging the scum pair read. That's not distancing. If I was scum wanting distance, it would have been so much easier and safer to say nothing and hope BigDad's comment got lost in the shuffle. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
Here is my line of thinking on OBW: After day 1, his filter had three posts. One cautionary comment about reading Balla, one good point about the IC and a promise to be a good townie, and one question about policy debates and scum hunting. All fine things to post, and he gets some good feedback (e.g. my list). But these are also very safe posts, and that's all we get for the first 24 hours. I can read this as a scum thinking "great, said some things, got people to like me, now I can let them argue about Chyz for a day". This was the point at which I suggested OBW as a possible lynch target. His posting for the next day starts with the first big reaction to the me + Dragoon scum pair idea that BigDad brought up, and then he basically rides that idea for the rest of the day. So the meat of his contribution over the last two days is one read which I know (although Town doesn't) to be false, and it's a read that came served on a platter. From my perspective, OBW's actions makes a lot of sense as scum. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 07 2014 08:14 JonnyLaw wrote: Fine, since balla addressed it briefly I'll bite. That post was bad. He's agreeing with me but I just want owb to show some interest in the game. Nothing he did up to that point really screamed scum other than he likes to lurk when playing scum. I assume DW didn't know this when he posted. I don't like his play but dragoon needs to do something spectacular to change my mind. Correct. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 07 2014 02:36 Balla24 wrote: What I think of dragoon's soft defense of Asuna? It's difficult to come to conclusions about it until dragoon flips, and flips scum... otherwise there's really nothing to glean from it. I do find day_walker's post about it weird, where he lays out the 2 situations seemingly assuming Asuna is town 100%... Why can't it be that they are both scum? At least it fits with his big post where he basically calls everyone town (which in itself is weird... you should be suspicious of everyone early not so easily dismissive of small posts as townie plays).. You misunderstood what I was saying. Here is my post for reference: On January 06 2014 21:03 Day_Walker wrote: ... Off the top of my head I can think of only two scenarios where this <Dragoon defending Asuna> is consistent with theDragoon scum AND Asuna townie: 1) Scum are protecting some townies to make things harder to read. 2) Scum are trying to make it easier to play the "I'm a newbie" card. The two scenarios ASSUME that Dragoon is scum and Asuna is townie, and then try to explain Dragoon's defense. Maybe I should have said this explicitly, but the point of the post is that I think it is unlikely that Dragoon is scum AND Asuna is townie. If they are both scum, the defense makes total sense and needs no explanation. If Dragoon is town and gets a townie read on Asuna, the defense again makes total sense regardless of Asuna's alignment. The defense only needs a explanation if Dragoon is scum and Asuna is townie, and I was throwing out the two explanations that I saw. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
I still want to hear your thoughts on BigDad going after theDragoon early. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
I'll give my reasoning in a bit, but I want hear more from Dragoon first. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
Let's talk about lurkers. dnyarri + Show Spoiler + Three total posts. I flagged his first post as potentially scum, and given his follpw-up it looks even worse to me now than it did then. His second post switches his lynch vote from TheChyz to Dragoon: On January 06 2014 23:43 dnyarri wrote: Actually I have changed my primary target of suspicion from TheChyz to TheDragoon mainly because of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=16#316 TheDragoon stated that Day_Walker seemed like innocent even though Day_Walker had only posted one list and nothing else. Day_Walker's only vote is against TheChyz which doesn't mean much since TheChyz is easy bandwagoning target. TheDragoon's post give me the impression that he wants to slow voting down by defending (random) people while going to TheChyz-bandwagon and attacking nobody else. TheChyz is confusing but I'm not sure if it's carelessness or risk taking. My logic for calling him scum was somewhat faulted too I think. ##unvote ##vote: TheDragoon This feels like rather weak reasoning to me, and I'm not sure the part I bolded - which seems to be sharing his thought process from evidence to vote - even makes sense. On one hand, it's hard to call him a bandwagoner because he placed to first vote on Dragoon. On the other hand, between dnyarri's first and second post we had the IC retract his Chyz vote, and BigDad label me and Dragoon as scummy. The wind was definitely blowing away from Chyz and towards Dragoon before dnyarri changed his vote. Dnyarri's last post is fine, and I agree with a lot of the content, but it was prompted by an accusation by Balla of rehashing and not talking about enough people. A fine post, but one that was prompted, rather than spontaneous. sidesprang + Show Spoiler + Three posts the first day. Two of them are spent agreeing with Balla, the last one gives the consensus view of OWB and Chyz. Comes in late on the second day and drops this: On January 07 2014 10:44 sidesprang wrote: Been away most of the day sry. Skimming through the thread now. Came to this. Voting for yourself make it an autovote for me. If you are town please fight for your life, we have everything to gain. If town we will hopefully see it, if scum we will hopefully be more sure you are scum after your defence. ##Vote theDragoon I'll be catching up for a bit, if anyone have any questions feel free to ask I'll be around for a bit. But gonna use some time catching up as a lot have been posted. What's this? An autovote that absolves him of any need to justify hopping on carriage #9 of the lynch train? How convenient. Any desire to make a substantive comment on the day that he missed? Apparently not. onlywonderboy + Show Spoiler + Here is my last post on him: On January 07 2014 11:41 Day_Walker wrote: @Suki @Balla24 Here is my line of thinking on OBW: After day 1, his filter had three posts. One cautionary comment about reading Balla, one good point about the IC and a promise to be a good townie, and one question about policy debates and scum hunting. All fine things to post, and he gets some good feedback (e.g. my list). But these are also very safe posts, and that's all we get for the first 24 hours. I can read this as a scum thinking "great, said some things, got people to like me, now I can let them argue about Chyz for a day". This was the point at which I suggested OBW as a possible lynch target. His posting for the next day starts with the first big reaction to the me + Dragoon scum pair idea that BigDad brought up, and then he basically rides that idea for the rest of the day. So the meat of his contribution over the last two days is one read which I know (although Town doesn't) to be false, and it's a read that came served on a platter. From my perspective, OBW's actions makes a lot of sense as scum. I'll just add to this by noting that OWB placed vote #3 on Dragoon. I've said nothing about Dragoon's behavior. I don't think I have to. Based on the actions of other players, I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon. I'm not dismissing the reads of suki and Jonny (the only two people who have made substantial arguments for lynching Dragoon). But if Dragoon is scum, we can get him later. He is at least willing to be around and talk with the Town. And most importantly, we have better lynch targets. I ordered the lurkers from most to least scummy, and I think that either dnyarri or sidesprang would make a solid lynch. ## Vote dnyarri | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 07 2014 18:34 Balla24 wrote: "I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon." - I don't really understand why you're going after the lurkers then? Why not directly go after the people with cases on dragoon (me, suki, jonnylaw)? Why are you specifically asking me for a response here as well? What is your read on me? Scum or town, i can't tell. Seems like you're accusing me. I don't mean that the lurking mafia led the bandwagon by making cases, I mean that they did the bandwagoning. I wasn't accusing you. It was in response to On January 07 2014 16:24 Balla24 wrote: This is the most one sided lynch ever. I'm sorry but this should seriously be making you weary (suki/jonnylaw). The people who are not voting seem to also be tentatively saying that they are ok with the lynch if it were to happen now, besides Day_walker who probably is thinking along the same lines of this tbh. I generally like your posts. I have you on town. @TheChyz On January 07 2014 18:35 TheChyz wrote: The only problem I have with an dnyarri vote is that it won't really tell us much apart from what HIS alignment is, however somebody else as a lynch (like Dragoon for example), will help us gain some information on other players regardless of alignment. Remember that dnyarri cast the first vote for theDragoon. If dnyarri flips scum, that gives us a huge amount of information about Dragoon (if you still think Dragoon is scum, you have to explain why the scum were bussing from the very first vote). And given how much of the recent conversation has been focused on people accusing Dragoon and him lashing out in defense, I think it would be good for us to be able to focus on other topics. @Town I want to make it clear that I'm not interested in policy-lynching lurkers. I'm interested in lynching specific lurkers who have contributed scummy posts and very little else, because I think they are more likely scum than Dragoon. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 07 2014 19:52 Balla24 wrote: Please explain more. You have since said you don't think you need to but I didn't really understand that. You are very adamant that dragoon is going to flip town, why? What has he done that makes him so town to you? Judging by his actions, I don't have a strong read on Dragoon The evidence against Dragoon looked very different to me than the rest of town. When people were talking about me and Dragoon as scum buddies, and then accusing us of trying to distance ourselves, I was the only townie who could read those posts and say "lol no". When Dragoon was defending himself against these accusation, I was the only townie who could read those posts and say "yup, this is 100% a guy defending himself against some false accusations". I think this in turn affected the weight I gave to other accusations against him. For example, I think most other people saw his snap OWB vote as scummy. Since I knew that OWB's scum-buddy accusation was false, I thought "well, I can't really tell if this is a frustrated townie lashing out or a cornered scum lashing out". The way Town has interacted with Dragoon over the last day has made it difficult for me to get a good read on him, because I'm not sure how to tell the difference between frustrated townie and cornered scum. Judging by the entire game, I lean town for Dragoon. This most heavily rests on my scum read for dnyarri, and the fact that dnyarri placed the very first for Dragoon. Based on the vote, I think it unlikely that both dnyarri AND Dragoon are scum, and this turns my scum read for dnyarri into a town read for Dragoon. And for the reasons I just gave, this sounds a lot more plausible to me than to any other townie. @Balla's first question: On January 07 2014 19:46 Balla24 wrote: @DW you specifically said something like 'I believe we saw Mafia run a bandwagon' so by that you meant they hopped on the bandwagon and not that they led the bandwagon? Let me try that again. I saw two people that I suspect as scum, dnyarri and OWB, contribute early on in the Dragoon lynch (votes 1 and 3) for reasons that didn't look strong to me (again my take is different here, since I'm the only town who knows OWB's accusation was completely untrue). The Town was already suspicious of Dragoon, the lynch took off, and sidesprang capped it off with another scummy-feeling vote. To summarize: I am not adamant that Dragoon is town, although I suspect he is. I am adamant that dnyarri is a better lynch target. I my read on Dragoon and the situation in general has been influenced by information available only to scum, me, and Dragoon, and I understand that the rest of Town may not share my views. | ||
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