EPTCatch 22 Mafia
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
/in | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
He's called multiple people scum already, including: Cora, Hapa, DP, and has sheeped onto Yamato. But what I've failed to see from him is conviction in his reads. This is something I've seen from Oatsmaster in the past, even this early into the game, and I'm not seeing it here. Oats, care to explain your current thoughts on DP and Hapa? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Why you unvote Oats? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 21 2013 15:05 Hapahauli wrote: Because his play so far has been based on antagonizing every single person in the thread. There's no scum survival instinct in his play. He's playing like a paranoid townie. Which is why I have severe objections to how you interpreted his play so far: I have no idea how you associate any of this with scum-behavior. Firstly, "lack of conviction" seems the exact opposite of his play thusfar. Sure he doesn't have great justifications for his reads (which is normal on Day 1), but he seems to have as much "conviction" as possible. Secondly, calling multiple people scum is completely non-alignment indicative, and might even be a town-tell (paranoia, natural suspicion, etc). You are holding "townie conviction" to an immeasurably high standard. If there's anyone that has "conviction" about their reads so far, it's Oats. And hell it's early Day 1 - are you expecting the guy to have one clear scumread already or something? Different people play scum in different ways. You say that the way Oats has played so far would be impossible for scum because there's "no survival instinct." I would strongly disagree with that. Oats so far hasn't really persay tunneled anyone all that hard. Coming from a game where he (as town) literally devoted all his energies to trying to get me lynched, his play this game is dramatically different. Sure, it's early and he could maybe not have that guy he's feeling really strongly is scum, but it is odd that he can so lightly jump on and off of people the way he has. Especially what he did with Yamato felt a bit off to me, more or less completely sheeping thread sentiment while entirely abandoning any focus on his prior scumreads. I really haven't seen this "lack of survival instinct" you seem to have. This is a guy that as town waves his arms in the air and begs to get mislynched or vigshot for how scummy he looks. Here, I'd say he's not really acting like that. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 21 2013 15:09 DarthPunk wrote: Hey GK? what you think of yamato. Scum or town? I can relate to his methodology of using process of elimination to determine scum, as this is the way I like to play. And I'd say it's possible that he came to the conclusions he did with said methodology. Especially considering the majority of this thread to date has been trollish nonsense rather than real scumhunting. He's a null read for me right now. Which in itself is a little odd, considering I quickly (and correctly) concluded he was town when playing with him in Les Mafia. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 21 2013 15:26 Hapahauli wrote: @ GK He's already tunnelled a couple of people and is the most active person in this thread. I have no idea how you can interpret his play about having a lack of conviction. In regards to him tunneling the hell out of you in "I Swear" Mini, you should know full well that he tunneled you on Day 2 of the game. How is that all relevant towards his play in the first few hours in the game, in which it is near impossible to have anything with which to mega-tunnel someone. Can you point to me to any of his town-games in which he acts to the degree you attribute his play to within the first few hours of Day 1? It was the first few hours I was in the game, so as far as I'm concerned it was day one. And it was based off my first post, so he literally is capable of megatunneling off basically nothing... But that's not really my main issue with him. I'm still having trouble understanding how he can so easily forget about you and DP when jumping onto Yamato. Also have you learned your lesson from Axel and Shao last game? Activity =/= towniness. Oats is always pretty active, so that's not particularly indicative of anything. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Explain to me how picking to attack me on what thread consensus has already determined to be a bad discussion point isn't in fact attacking an "easy target"? And while you're at it please tell me if that means I should assume you're scum? I will hold discussion on whatever the fuck I feel is relevant to finding scum. I really don't care if you find who I discuss "easy," and if you were to do any legwork at all you'd find I frequently look into people you might consider "easy" on day one. To me, day one is all about generating discussion and a pro-town atmosphere. To that end, I constantly look at lurkers (something I haven't done this game all that much) and have what you might consider "weaker" discussion points about more active people just to get a better idea of where their alignment stands. I was mostly interested in this singular point on Oatsmaster: Why would he so eagerly jump his suspicions onto Yamato while ignoring his earlier reads? That was it. I actually do like his explanations, although I disagree with them, on DP and Hapa. At least I can visualize how a town Oats could come to such conclusions. The thing with his play this game is that it's dramatically different than what I saw of his townplay last game, and I'm still working to make sense of it. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 00:43 ShiaoPi wrote: its not specifically a meta case, meta is just supportive of objectively scummy play by fabricating a case based on a players inconsistent, wild playstyle If your case isn't based on meta, then why are you drawing on your experience with me from last game to incorrectly reach the conclusion that I'm scum this game? You in fact are relying in part on meta here... And without any kind of understanding of my townplay as a baseline to work from at that... I would be very interested in knowing who else you think is scum, or if I'm your one and only scumread atm? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 00:56 ShiaoPi wrote: @gk: you can assume that i am scum if that pleases you, I dont really care?! I don't see any difference in oats' play between here and I swear so I have him pretty firmly in town at the moment. Your case just looks like cooking up stuff, which is especially easy on oats since he is inconsistent and likes to switch his focus around a fair amount. tell me about dramatically differences in oats play. For one thing, he endlessly clung onto a scum target and spammed "kill him" much further explanation for half the game. He seemed just overall to be much more in your face with his reads than he is here. He feels a bit more distanced and level-headed here. People say he's being dickish and arrogant, but this game he's been far more tame than last game. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:02 marvellosity wrote: Can you explain how the change is scum-motivated? I'm not saying it necessarily is. I'm just not sure what to make of it yet. It's like maybe he could do this as scum to stick out less. But at this point trying to interpret this behavioral change really is just speculation and WIFOM. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:05 ShiaoPi wrote: @gk: you are doing comparison wrong. compare d1 and d1 not n1/d2 when he locked onto you. Well when I was ingame is what I'm the most familiar with, and what is fresh in my mind. I believe he was also especially dickish about his BH and Hapa reads last game day one. The point is here he's actually almost polite with his reads (again, compared to last game). | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:14 marvellosity wrote: The main issue with this is, GK, that your first couple of posts arising suspicion on Oats are primarily based on meta, or how you view his play last time he was town. The problem is, if you have selective/incomplete memory or you don't check, then it's at best not very useful at all, and at worst manipulative/deceitful. See what I'm saying? This is obvious. I don't feel I've been misleading. He has been more level-headed this game... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:02 ShiaoPi wrote: @rayn: Hapa needs to post more for me to make a good read on him. While I agree with the direction his play has been so far, I am used to more activity from his side, so I prefer waiting on him. yamato is in null camp as I already said Regarding ange, dunno about the internet problems and how much they interfere with her play, but so far not impressed. These 3 are all nullish reads right now. People I dislike are gk, sloosh and to a lesser extent syl gk for reasons already stated. sloosh flat out disappeared, from what I remember he was kind of lurky but not that bad and the more he lurks the likelier it is that he is scum. syl has done nothing so far, but it is eerily similiar to his play in I swear. He was survivor there so might be something to consider. This list is the very definition of "easy targets." And why are you in list form dishing out multiple null reads? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:29 marvellosity wrote: A couple of things. Firstly I think pretty much everyone else in the game isn't detecting any particular major deviation in Oats' play from normal. That's fine maybe, maybe you got something subtle that the rest of us didn't. The problem arises when you bring Oats up as a suspect / scumread because of your meta-read (which Shiao pointed out didn't quite hold true during the D1 you were referring to). It's precisely why I asked how you felt the change was scum-motivated. If you're bringing up a scum suspect on the basis of meta, you need to explain why the differences you bring up make him scum and not playing a slightly different style. In short: a) maybe he has been more level-headed (?) but it's early and it's not something I (and others are picking up) b) even if he is, why does that make him scum For the last time: His play felt different, and I was working to make sense of why. He is not currently a scumread for me. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:38 marvellosity wrote: Have you made sense of why? And the fact he's not *currently* a scumread doesn't change the fact you brought him up as the person you were "most suspicious of". Why do you feel better about him now? No I can't quite figure out why Oats is playing civilly. Honestly, my time is probably better spent not thinking about it anymore for the time being... Regarding question two: As I've said, that he actually has rationale for his reads that I could find sensibly coming from a town perspective... The complete switch of attention thing still doesn't sit well with me. Others here seem to have some kind of "well it's Oats" rationale for when he does some things, but I wanted to take a quick look at this as there could be scum motivation behind it. Said quick look apparently means my entire filter... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 22 2013 01:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe because i asked him about those specific three people? Are you even reading the thread? But what I see here is he doesn't have much opinion at all on pretty much anyone. I mean, I'm going to assume the people he "dislikes" are his scumreads. So he basically has me, for making what he perceives to be a "bad case" on an "easy target," and then we have two complete lurkers who I find it hard to imagine he could really have any read on at this point... That you specifically asked for three reads he listed as null doesn't make this list any less bad. I find it odd that he doesn't seem to have much opinion at all on pretty much anyone except me at this point. Yet he has no problem looking involved by posting it out in list form... | ||
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