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Hi, here are some stats about 2nd and 3rd base timing, and the speed of mineral-income saturation for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd bases: check it out.
It's interactive, so you gotta click over to play with it, but anyway here's what it looks like:
The stats are drawn from ~100,000 1v1 Ladder HotS games played since May 8th.
All the info is divided out by matchup and league.
The base timings are for completed bases in mining position -- so macro bases aren't counted.
The saturation speeds measure the time lag from when your 2nd/3rd mining base is complete to when you have 2x/3x saturated mining income, that is the income earned by 16 workers on minerals. The idea being that once you have invested the resources into having a base up, you might as well be getting full income value from it.
As a lowly Gold Protoss, I built this so I could know what people are doing on average in my league and the leagues above me. Of course the timing in any game will vary based on your strategy and tactical considerations.
If you are varying from these averages and you have a good reason, then great. But if you are significantly slower or faster than these and you find that surprising, then maybe you can profitably adjust your playstyle.
In any individual game you can see that game's timings by clicking on the new Economy button:
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Interesting stats. This is only for PvZ?
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On May 31 2013 05:26 TheFish7 wrote:
Interesting stats. This is only for PvZ?
On May 31 2013 05:23 dsjoerg wrote:
All the info is divided out by matchup and league.
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On May 31 2013 05:26 TheFish7 wrote:
Interesting stats. This is only for PvZ?
you have to visit the site. the picture in the OP ist just an example.
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On May 31 2013 05:26 TheFish7 wrote:
Interesting stats. This is only for PvZ?
You really should click on links...
I think the most interesting thing here is how close the Bronze league timings are to Grandmaster. It's obviously not close, but it definitely shows how far the average skill level has increased since the early WoL days.
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Cool to look at, even if it does just show you what you are expecting --in most cases higher league players get expos faster/saturated faster, even though there are a few exceptions
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That is some super sexy statistics.
Of course, it confirms a lot of things, things that we pretty much expected. Bronze players saturate slower than master players, and there is a quicker expansion in ZvT than in PvP.
But, the personalized tool looks damn cool. That's a really cool job!
Edit : By the way, sometimes, the values for GM are a bit strange. You have to note that the sample size is often really really small (like 15 games of GM level as opposed to 5000 games of master level)
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Yeah I was tempted to remove the GM column entirely due to low # of samples, but the page is going to automatically update every day, so if people start uploading GM games, then we'll start to see more meaningful stats there too.
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I'm starting to really really love this site.
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On May 31 2013 05:36 dsjoerg wrote:
Yeah I was tempted to remove the GM column entirely due to low # of samples, but the page is going to automatically update every day, so if people start uploading GM games, then we'll start to see more meaningful stats there too.
How low is this ? If you have 100 000 of games in total, it can't be that bad ? =)
Assuming the GM column is correct, I find these stats highly interesting! Looking from a zerg perspective, the third basically gets saturated faster and faster from bronze to masters! However in GM ZvZ or ZvT, it actually gets saturated abit slower than masters league which I find really interesting! Being in masters, this could tell me that heavy aggression might be preferable in ZvZ before fully saturating the third for a long time (which corresponds my own experience) and for ZvT I feel like many Zergs are guilty of just rushing up to a full three base economy regardless of what build the Terran is going because they are quite used to play against the heavy macro style from Terran and this might entail some losses.
Regardless thanks for sharing this !
Edit: Err... The numbers were posted and they are actually listed on the site...My bad. Yeah, wish more GM players would get their act together and start using this. Still, I prefer having it there as it might hint towards certain things..
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While the sample size may screw up a few things, I think it's really interesting to see what a huge gap exists between the average master league player and grandmasters.
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This is pretty awesome. Good job!
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well the matchups for gm league have between 9 and 33 matches each. Thats a very low number.. for 22 days...
i dunno why the numbers are so low..
but i really like those stats and its a good clean analysis. I really like that youve chosen meaningful indicators and that you didnt make any weird interpretations but let the numbers speak for themselves instead.
I just realized you are the same guy that did that stuff with the inject percentage. While i didnt approve on that topic back then, i really like how you've improved your analytical methods.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
This tells us sooo much more than efficient with injects does  nicely done.
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hmm. i thought the gap would be much higher. especially for 3rds
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Check it out, in PvP, bronze players expand faster than GM players, on average.
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I think its interesting and valuable when looking at the difference in full saturation timing between 1 - 2 - 3 base by race. While mostly its already intrinsically known it helps to understand potential timings strength and weakness by match-up. For instance, Zerg has the fastest one base saturation but the slowest 2nd base saturation. Terran has slow 1st base saturation but the fastest 2nd and 3rd base saturation due to the mule factor etc... Toss seems to be somewhere in the middle. Pros are already great at pinpointing those timings by match-up, build, map etc... but this kind of information makes it easier for us non pro's to understand some of the secret sauce to their success.
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United States606 Posts
This is awesome. This is one easy way to see where a player is performing compared to everybody else. While this may not be the determining factor in deciding if a player is playing at the next league's level, it gives an easy benchmark for people to shoot for. Well done!
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PvP doesn't really change much from bronze to GM. No wonder I feel stupid playing that MU 
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JUST FOR ANYONE WHO DIDNT FIGURE IT OUT: The first race you select on the left is the data displayed.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/p2urYHw.png?1)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FzPZ2wI.png?1)
