• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:32
CEST 20:32
KST 03:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion How FlaSh Nearly Forfeited MSL Finals being late BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Are High-Level Gamers more A…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3271 users

M [2] New Amsterdam Medical, or Antiga Shipyard II

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-15 11:33:36
November 15 2012 11:29 GMT
#1
[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler [angled and pathing] +

[image loading]
[image loading]


Playable bounds: 179 by 172
textures:
- Castanar: Panels, small tiles, rock, metal, mesh
- Ulaan: dirt
- Braxis Alpha: metal, metal detail
Cliffs: Castanar Organic, Braxis Alpha Manmade
1043 doodats:

+ Show Spoiler [Backstory and philosophy] +

I've come to believe that an interseting way to make a map is to create a fairly large map with a decent rush distance coupled with bases that are fairly spread out and feature a lot of entrances into them, while making the entrances fairly choked. I believe this makes frontal aggression easy to defend but multi-pronged and positional aggresion more rewarding. I also feel that making a lot of ramps and chokes as well as many counter attack paths adds to the character of the map as well as positionally placing line of sight blockers. I also do not believe in a natural flow of expansions and believe that a map should offer a choice for which third and certainly fourth to take, I also like the fact if certain bases do not obviously belong to a certain player to create a certain amount of tension over them. I also have an irrational hatred for expansions which only have one entrance. To this end I've made the following modifications of the topology of Antiga Shipyard:

- It is a true two player map, the map is no longer fully rotationally symmetrical, specifically there is a path to an easier to take fourth base.
- The rocks guarding the third no longer fully block the entrance path, only partially to create a choke, however there are LOS blockers and a tower on top meaning that runbies and counter attacks are easier to pull off, but full frontal attacks are harder because the defending player can use the tower to look over the LOS blockers.
- The reaper-pod has been changed to a full backdoor with rocks as well as two ramps leading up to it. The rocks can be broken both offensively and defensively (it is easier to defend your main versus drops if the rocks are down but the outer ramp is walled off for instance)
- The thirds have been given a crevasse to make them a bit more chocked, I'm not completely sure of this change and might remove it.
- The gold bases are back in full glory, they are very easy to deny mining from but rather hard to actually kill, they are meant to be a viable third in some case. Contrasting the original Antiga, it is very easy to run around the gold bases in this version, you can't really put a PF there and use it positionally all that well.
- Entire map has been scaled up. You're basically looking at some-thing Whirlwind-esque in size with cross only.
- The entire centre has been heavily chocked up with a lot of LOS blockers added.

It's definitely an experimental map with a lot of untested ideas that may go horribly wrong:

- The backdoor rocks particularly are tricky, but I do believe that by positioning your army correctly and keeping an eye on them you can timely respond to them being taken out. They can be walled of from inside with 3 gates or 2 gates and a pylon.
- The third is very open and the hard to wall off due to the LOS blockers as well as being pretty far away. Might be some obvious PvZ problems stirring into this.
- A PF at the gold is going to be pretty darn hard for Z to kill given how chocked it is around the gold. Together with a lot of Zergs not liking to get ranged units versus T, hard to deny mining. It doesn't affect me personally because I like roaches vs T but I can see why many people don't.


+ Show Spoiler [Aesthetics and detail] +

+ Show Spoiler [Rocks that lead to the now more access…] +

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [Gold base back in full glory] +

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [The rocks aren't there leading t…] +

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [Defensive choke] +

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [PvZ defensive simcity] +

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [TvZ defensive simcity] +

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [TvZ defensive simcity] +

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [PvT defensive simcity] +

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [ZvZ defensive simcity] +

[image loading]




+ Show Spoiler [Q/A] +

Q: Why did you make it a semi-four player map? Why not make it a full blown 2 player map without keeping any semblance of symmetry if no one is going to spawn there anyway?
A: Admittedly there's no real reason beyond aesthetics why I did this, I don't think it will take too much away from gameplay though, I've made changes to the symmetry where I thought it was required such as the three width ramp.

Q: Why remake Antiga Shipyard? Why stick to an old template if you can just make a new map from scratch and not limit yourself?
A: Admittedly there's again no real reason, I just like Antiga Shipyard and hoped to resolve some of the problems I think it has.

Q: Can't you blink into the mains using towers?
A: No, I changed the watchtower vision radius, you just barely can't, you can however intentionally see up to the high ground pods if you have tower control.

Q: Speaking of pods, those aren't unpathable it seems, you can drop tanks on there?
A: Pretty much, I don't see it being used offensively but defensively it might be a good move to drop a tank on there or walk a colossus onto it against Zerglings.

Q: No free overlord spots which are standard these days?
A: Nope, I feel it's okay currently to give Zerg a slight nerf in that regards, wouldn't you say? I feel that tradition was started when Zerg was underpowered, they aren't any more.

Q: The analyzer says that map isn't symmetrical and you can blink into the main with watchtowers.
A: The analyzer is bugged regarding this, it doesn't record changes to the watchtower vision and the terran isn't symmetrical no, but I've used pathing blocking to ensure that the pathable terran is (at least I hope)

Q: There aren't any aesthetic features and doodats on the back walls
A: If you look at the map from the back side it's pretty ugly yeah, admittely this is just me rushing things, if I'd done it completely properly I would've added them but you see those parts so little that I didn't feel it was worth it.

Q: Eew, circle syndrome?
A: I've made it my position before that I believe that circle syndrome is a good thing, not a bad thing, and that that is the reason most Korean maps have it. I've also made it my position that these things are subjective, not objective, so feel free to disagree and point it out in the comments. Some might have noticed that I like a little discussion about the differing views of good map design.


So tell me how much you hate it in full detail, because I know my maps are pretty controversial.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
lorestarcraft
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1049 Posts
November 15 2012 16:19 GMT
#2
Gold bases in the middle are not balanced!
SC2 Mapmaker
Zelaxe
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden14 Posts
November 15 2012 16:26 GMT
#3
You could try making the main backdoor a mineralblock + rocks instead. That way the defending player can easily open the path when he wants but it isn't possible to open it quickly for the attacker in the earlygame without sacrificing a large amount of economy.

"In GSL, the mega gosu players lose because they get cheesed. In #TSL, the mega gosu players lose because the other guy plays better 8-)"
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
November 15 2012 16:30 GMT
#4
On November 16 2012 01:19 lorestarcraft wrote:
Gold bases in the middle are not balanced!
You think so, even after the mule nerf?

On November 16 2012 01:26 Zelaxe wrote:
You could try making the main backdoor a mineralblock + rocks instead. That way the defending player can easily open the path when he wants but it isn't possible to open it quickly for the attacker in the earlygame without sacrificing a large amount of economy.

Cool idea honestly, I might make the backdoors leading to actual mains that way but the backdoors to expansion just rocks, or maybe just open those up entirely honestly. To think of it there's no real reason why those should be rocks at all.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
necrimanci
Profile Joined March 2011
70 Posts
November 15 2012 16:44 GMT
#5
why gold in the middle? You want to park your army there anyway, so not like taking it is a risk, and if you're ahead and got map control you get a free high yield. No comebacks allowed, eh?
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
November 15 2012 16:48 GMT
#6
On November 16 2012 01:44 necrimanci wrote:
why gold in the middle? You want to park your army there anyway, so not like taking it is a risk, and if you're ahead and got map control you get a free high yield. No comebacks allowed, eh?
Well, because I liked that aspect of antiga, how important centre control is, basically, if you got control of the centre you get to mine from the gold and your opponent can't.

Apart from that, I've taken care to make running around the centre a lot more possible than it was on Antiga where the centre was so big you almost couldn't actually run around it. It's pretty easy to do a runby on this map if he's firmly clinging on to the centre to dive into the natural or third so it's not like you can just park your entire army on that high ground and be like 'yo, you can't ever take this position', you will just get a billion lings or zealots in your third from the backdoor rocks that lead to the normal fourth.

So yeah, I hope that it'll create a certain contention to correctly decide just how much army you wish to allocate to retain control of the centre which gives you the gold but does leave you open to a massive counter attack.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
November 15 2012 16:53 GMT
#7
Why on earth is it a perfect square? o.O
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
D4V3Z02
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany693 Posts
November 15 2012 16:59 GMT
#8
The walls at the natural look like they make forcefields too strong.
http://www.twitch.tv/d4v3z02 all your base are belong to overlord
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-15 17:02:14
November 15 2012 17:01 GMT
#9
On November 16 2012 01:53 Aunvilgod wrote:
Why on earth is it a perfect square? o.O


Coincidence, it's just how the layout turned out to be to make it all fit.

I think it's proof that God intended the entire evolution of this universe to culminate in a second Antiga Shipyard and designed the geometrical laws of the universe just to make it so, what say you?

On November 16 2012 01:59 D4V3Z02 wrote:
The walls at the natural look like they make forcefields too strong.
Which walls are we talking about exactly?
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
loginn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France815 Posts
November 15 2012 17:30 GMT
#10
On November 16 2012 01:30 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2012 01:19 lorestarcraft wrote:
Gold bases in the middle are not balanced!
You think so, even after the mule nerf?

Show nested quote +
On November 16 2012 01:26 Zelaxe wrote:
You could try making the main backdoor a mineralblock + rocks instead. That way the defending player can easily open the path when he wants but it isn't possible to open it quickly for the attacker in the earlygame without sacrificing a large amount of economy.

Cool idea honestly, I might make the backdoors leading to actual mains that way but the backdoors to expansion just rocks, or maybe just open those up entirely honestly. To think of it there's no real reason why those should be rocks at all.


I feel gold bases in the middle are still a lot easier to take for T and even if mules are nerfed it makes a lot of easy income.
Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
November 15 2012 17:53 GMT
#11
Interesting turtely map. I think you could try to move corner bases closer to the center.

Oh and is a full FFE possible? I don´t think you should be making things hard for protoss these days...
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-15 18:06:30
November 15 2012 18:02 GMT
#12
It's a 3 width ramp like on Antiga, you decide if you want to wall at the nexus or at the ramp basically.

Edit: Also, turtly? That was not my intention, there are like 20 entrances into your main and third and it even has a backdoor and it's made very easy to drop.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
Jukez
Profile Joined June 2012
United States51 Posts
November 15 2012 18:17 GMT
#13
amazing map macro map, where can i download it?
Liquid'Jukez? only in mah dreams.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
November 15 2012 18:21 GMT
#14
I know that most of mapmackers absolutely don't care, but this map is obviously absolutely unplayable to me and thus I believe at least to a subset of those with graphicaly weak computers (individual mileages vary a lot). It is because there is an abundance of these smoke-based LOS blockers that cause extreme performance degradation for intel i-series integrated HD graphics when army is in the smoke.

You may ask, why would someone play on that? Well, reasons my differ, I can certainly give you a few. Put that is not the point - the point is that this only one thing needless kills the whole map for some people. Maps without these are completely playable, maps with a few of these can be played by avoiding the smoke with army - just this one is made in a way that it is almost inevitable that at least something will be standing in the smoke.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
November 15 2012 18:32 GMT
#15
On November 16 2012 03:17 Jukez wrote:
amazing map macro map, where can i download it?
'ere: http://www.mediafire.com/?14p7299z54pg53l
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
November 15 2012 18:34 GMT
#16
On November 16 2012 03:21 opisska wrote:
I know that most of mapmackers absolutely don't care, but this map is obviously absolutely unplayable to me and thus I believe at least to a subset of those with graphicaly weak computers (individual mileages vary a lot). It is because there is an abundance of these smoke-based LOS blockers that cause extreme performance degradation for intel i-series integrated HD graphics when army is in the smoke.

You may ask, why would someone play on that? Well, reasons my differ, I can certainly give you a few. Put that is not the point - the point is that this only one thing needless kills the whole map for some people. Maps without these are completely playable, maps with a few of these can be played by avoiding the smoke with army - just this one is made in a way that it is almost inevitable that at least something will be standing in the smoke.
Really? Even if you disable particle effects in the graphics settings?

And well yeah, I don't think many mapmakers are going to adjust to the few people that have this problem as the LOS blockers are part of balance but that is a bit weird and seems like a bug, isn't there a way to fix the performance degradation in the graphics options?
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
November 15 2012 18:42 GMT
#17
I can tell u that new amsterdam does not have a medical center not the origional dutch new amsterdam atleast. nice map tho sir!
KCCO!
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
November 15 2012 18:50 GMT
#18
I felt that New Amsterdam was obviously some kind of Terran colony or something like that.I came up with the name when the water level was higher and the map was partially submerged, get it, Amsterdam lies lower than the water level?
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
November 15 2012 19:10 GMT
#19
On November 16 2012 03:34 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2012 03:21 opisska wrote:
I know that most of mapmackers absolutely don't care, but this map is obviously absolutely unplayable to me and thus I believe at least to a subset of those with graphicaly weak computers (individual mileages vary a lot). It is because there is an abundance of these smoke-based LOS blockers that cause extreme performance degradation for intel i-series integrated HD graphics when army is in the smoke.

You may ask, why would someone play on that? Well, reasons my differ, I can certainly give you a few. Put that is not the point - the point is that this only one thing needless kills the whole map for some people. Maps without these are completely playable, maps with a few of these can be played by avoiding the smoke with army - just this one is made in a way that it is almost inevitable that at least something will be standing in the smoke.
Really? Even if you disable particle effects in the graphics settings?

And well yeah, I don't think many mapmakers are going to adjust to the few people that have this problem as the LOS blockers are part of balance but that is a bit weird and seems like a bug, isn't there a way to fix the performance degradation in the graphics options?


I have spent quite a while trying to figure it out, I tricked around with variables.txt and driver settings but did not find a solution.

The point is that I have not problem with any other LOS blockers, just these smoke ones. I understand that a lime of bushes would like a little silly in this setting - it's just I guess a part my sneaky warfare to put the thought of these being evil into peoples' minds

Also as I have noted, I have not so far seen a map with so many of these (and I tend to look at pretty much every map posted here, even though I don't comment on most of them).
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Fluid
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada136 Posts
November 15 2012 21:51 GMT
#20
I'm not a fan of gold bases in the middle if they're very close like that. I think you should just remove them the map would be more balanced.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The Patches Monday
16:00
#2
RotterdaM1147
TaKeTV 405
TKL 301
IndyStarCraft 261
SteadfastSC158
ZombieGrub77
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1147
TKL 301
IndyStarCraft 261
MaxPax 177
SteadfastSC 158
UpATreeSC 89
ProTech83
BRAT_OK 80
ZombieGrub77
StarCraft: Brood War
Soulkey 621
BeSt 305
actioN 156
Hm[arnc] 46
scan(afreeca) 17
HiyA 17
Dota 2
qojqva2625
Counter-Strike
Fnx 793
x6flipin689
olofmeister0
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu226
Other Games
Grubby1963
singsing1354
FrodaN1200
Beastyqt647
ceh9225
ArmadaUGS221
Hui .153
C9.Mang0144
QueenE65
MindelVK1
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 99
• Shameless 45
• Reevou 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV813
League of Legends
• Nemesis2163
• imaqtpie2135
• TFBlade792
• Shiphtur511
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
15h 28m
PiG Sty Festival
17h 28m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
The Patches Monday
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-09
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Proleague 2026-08-10
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.