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Starcraft 2.5 changes for all 3 races

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fouquet
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada29 Posts
November 01 2012 20:00 GMT
#1
DISCLAIMER:
+ Show Spoiler +
This is a really really really really really long read. I don’t expect everyone to read its whole contents but please note that some of the changes to one race are affected by changes in an other. thank you for your time I spent a lot of time and thought writing these out in what I hope is a clear and easy read. many of these ideas originated from other regular contributors to the starcraft 2 forum community and i am in no way claiming credit for your ideas i am simply incorporating your good ideas into mine. take it as a compliment if you see your idea on here and just give a shout if you want credit


FOREWORD:
+ Show Spoiler +
These are ideas for changes that I think would make a great expansion for starcraft 2. these changes are made with the identity of each race in mind and with spectating and e sports in mind. This is only my second pass at these ideas so I am sure there are imbalances or errors and that is why I share them with you. This thread is to analyze and discuss these changes and improve upon them. Thank you for your time in reading this lengthy post.

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

-Protoss Changes
+ Show Spoiler +
-opening statement
--gateway tech
-explanation
--robotics tech
-explanation
--stargate tech
-explanation
-projections


-Terran Changes
+ Show Spoiler +
-opening statement
--barracks tech
-explanation
--factory tech
-explanation
--starport tech
-explanation
-projections


-Zerg Changes
+ Show Spoiler +
-opening statement
--hatchery tech
--lair tech
--hive tech
-explanations
-projections

-Closing Thoughts



PROTOSS CHANGES:
(“En Taro Tassadar!”)

OPENING STATEMENT:
+ Show Spoiler +
as explored in depth by ItWhoSpeaks in his many popular threads the protoss gateway feels weak compared to its Broodwar counterpart. This is due to a tier 1/1.5 power creep by the other races and the current warp in mechanic. Some units are not getting used as much like the phoenix and the void ray because of lack usable role. Changing some of the interactions with late game protoss away from the vortex archon toilet or mass colossus deathball would be a positive thing in my opinion from a player point of view and a spectator point of view. A few of the changes that are in the protoss section are based on making the game even more enjoyable to watch just as much as play. Lets start by looking at the gateway.

PROTOSS GATEWAY/WARGATE CHANGES:
(“We require additional Pylons”)

Warpgate research moved to twilight council
Warpgate cost changed from 50m/50g/160seconds to 150m/150g/120seconds
Warpgate cooldowns are now 10% longer than the unit build time
Zealot shields increased from 50 to 60
Stalker damage changed from 12(+4 to armored) to 12(+4 to light)
sentry removed from the gateway
immortal added to the gateway
immortal requires twilight council
immortal cost changed from 250m/100g/4supply to 175m/100g/3supply
immortal build time changed from 55seconds to 46seconds
immortal attack period changed from 1.45 to 1.35
immortal damage changed from 20(+30 to armored) to 20(+10 to armored)
immortal health changed from 200 to 100
immortal hardened shield now requires research 200m/200g/80seconds at cybernetics core
High Templar unchanged
Dark Templar unchanged
Archon now also deals 1 range 360deg pbAoE at 1.5 range and closer


EXPLANATION:
+ Show Spoiler +
Warpgate is now a midgame powerful tool to build an army far out in the field almost instantly instead of a required mechanic for protoss. Learning are using warp in well will differentiate player skill and can now allow gateway units to be balanced around the gateway and not exclusively the warpgate.
Making the immortal weaker and putting it in the gateway allows the protoss to mass immortals into their mainstay army. Hardened shield is now a research. Stalkers have been pushed from main battle unit to anti light mobile harassment unit and anti light air. It makes sense visually as well since it share an attack beam with the phoenix which is anti light. templar tech is unchanged. Archon now deals its damage to all units around it at close range.

PROTOSS ROBOTICS FACILITY CHANGES:
(“beep boop beepidty boop!”)

Immortal removed from robotics
Sentry added to robotics
Sentry cost changed from 50m/100g/2supply to 75m/125g/3supply
Sentry damage changed from 6 to 8
Sentry health and shields changed from 40hp/40sp to 60hp/60sp
force field changed to stasis cell
stasis spell makes a target enemy unit invulnerable and unable to move, attack or use abilities for 10 seconds. Costs 75 energy range 6 usable on ground and air targets
Colossus attack period changed from 1.65 to 2.15
Colossus attack now has a 0.65 second delay before attacking. Now targets the location it's target was before the delay. (0.65 second window to micro out of the way)
Colossus damage changed from 16x2 to 24x2
Warp Prism Unchanged


EXPLANATION:
+ Show Spoiler +
the sentry is now a tier 2 robo caster. Force field has been removed in favor of a weak single target version of the Arbiters Stasis Ability. With multiple sentries you can effectively take key targets out of a big fight like the current vortex was meant to do. The colossus now has a slower but much stronger attack that slightly telegraphs its attacks giving skillful opponents the opportunity to micro out of some of the damage. This will also make the colossus overkill at a higher rate in large numbers reducing the effectiveness of the mass colossus death ball while technically buffing the colossus individual dps by a small amount. (from 19 to 22 base damage per second)


PROTOSS STARGATE CHANGES:
(“Carrier Has Arrived!”)

Phoenix unchanged
Void Ray removed
Oracle Pulsar Beam removed
Oracle Revelation changed from aoe reveal to single target 180 second vision
Oracle Time warp radius changed from 3.5 to 2.5
Tempest is no longer massive only armored
Tempest damage changed from 30(+30 vs massive) to 25(+25 vs massive)
Tempest attack range changed from 15 to 14
Tempest health changed from 300 to 200
Tempest Cost changed from 300m/200g/4supply to 250/150/3supply
Carrier changes outlined by LiquidTyler:

Mothership Vortex ability removed
Mothership now creates 4 range power field
Mothership new ability Shield Battery costs 50 energy restores 100 shields to all units in 2 radius range 8


EXPLANATION:
+ Show Spoiler +
the void ray has become a redundant unit. The tempest is now in the void ray's old spot in cost/supply and has gotten some nerfs to compensate. The carrier is now BW carrier. The oracle's time warp is incredibly powerful in its current 3.5 range aoe. This has been reduced by 1 and now gains a 3 minute single target vision ability. Use on queens to get free scouting against zerg for 3 minutes. Mothership vortex is gone. Mothership is now actually a scary unit on the field now not for its own combat abilities but for its mobile power field from which you can warp in units while cloaked. It also can now burst heal shields in a small area. A true powerful mobile support fortress.

OVERALL PROJECTIONS FOR PROTOSS:
+ Show Spoiler +
With a massable immortal, heavy firepower on the colossus, cheaper tempests and stronger archons comes great responsibility. And this is a good thing! When playing the protoss you should feel like you are controlling an elite group of super units. Each one is important and each loss is great. Warpgate is now a measure of skill and a tech choice, not a macro requirement. This let us get stronger gateway units to help with the power creep of the lesser races. I think the changes to air will have us seeing phoenix much more often and make late game protoss fleet a true terror to be feared.



TERRAN CHANGES:
(“Hell, its about Time.”)

OPENING STATEMENT:
+ Show Spoiler +
Terran factory has been needing a change for a while and I know blizzard is working on something for us. I have made some large changes to the armory and smaller tweaks to the barracks and starport. The raven is getting some buffs and the warhound is returning with a new role. The terran forces have had to change a little to accommodate and adapt to the changes in the protoss and zerg and I think they will do quite well with a great number of options in their arsenal. Lets start with the barracks.

TERRAN BARRACK CHANGES:
(“I don't got time to f**k around!”)

Marine Unchanged
Marauder concussive shells upgrade changed from 50% slow to -1 armor stacking up to -2 on a single target lasts 3 seconds (credit: ItWhoSpeaks)
Reaper new upgrade at tech lab +1 range +1 damage/shot 150m150g120seconds requires engineering bay
Ghost Snipe damage changed from 25(+25 vs psionic) to 20 ( +20 vs light +30 vs psionic)


EXPLANATION:
+ Show Spoiler +
Barracks needs relatively little change in my opinion. I saw some interesting ideas posted in some thread on some tweaks so I added them here with a few small changes of my own that I think could make bio a little more diverse than simple marine marauder.

The marauder is a very micro-able unit with strong stats for cost. It has stim for mobility and dps. The only thing wrong is the damn 50% slow that makes units very difficult to micro. This is unfun to play against and to watch. Instead of slowing the marauder shreds 1 armor per attack stack up to 2. now marauders will support your marines not by snaring enemies but increasing their dps on hard targets. Those 6 armor ultras giving you trouble? Bring that armor down to 4 and now you 3 attack rines are doing double damage.
The reaper feels weird. It has a place in the early game but it puts you behind if you fail to get good harassment and it is not a unit that carries forward into the late game or even the early mid game. With a new extra 1 range and 2 damage (1x2 damage) the reaper can now kite more effectively at 5.5 range just under marine range. This hopefully could see them used more later into the game. And remember that marauder? That armor shred adds 4 damage at 2 stacks to the reaper by armor reduction alone. Thats pretty big and we might see interesting marauder reaper pushes come of it
The ghost's snipe having two different vs unit tags means it goes 20 damage to massive and armored, 40 vs light and 50 vs psionic. This means it can now use snipe to take out light units efficiently as well as psionics ((light psionic units take a huge 70 damage)


TERRAN FACTORY CHANGES:
(“Fear tha thunda”)

Hellion range changed from 5 to 3
Hellion damage changed from 8(+6 vs light) to 4(+3vs light)
Hellion can now attack while moving
Infernal Preignitor changed from +5 vs light to +3 vs light
Hellion Attack period changed from 2.5 to 1 seconds (continuous stream of fire when attacking)
Hellbat name changed back to Battle Hellion
Battle Hellion no longer require an upgrade and is available after armory
Battle Hellion unchanged
Widow Mine changed to Widow Mine Seeder
removed unstable payload.
removed hitting undetected cloaked units
Burrow time 2 seconds. When burrowed it seeds range 3 with 6 burrowed mini widow mines. Mines have a 3ground/2air activation range and each one deals 45 (+4/upgrade) damage to a single target with a 1 range 10 damage splash. Mines are re seeded 10 seconds after detonation. Mines hit air and ground. Mines deactivate when seeder un burrows.
Siege tank unchanged
Thor requires Fusion Core
Fusion Core now requires armory instead of starport.
Thor Anti Air attack removed.
Thor Basic attack changed from 30x2(+3/upgrade) to 80x1(+20 to armored) (+5/+5 per upgrade)
Thor basic range increased from 7 to 8
Thor attack period changed from 1.28 to 2.68
Thor basic attack now has a 1 second charge up period before firing
Thor Strike Cannon Ability Replaced with Haywire Missile Strike (still requires research) targeted ability:16 max range 8 min range. Fire a very slow (only slightly faster than seeker missile) missile at target area dealing 120+80 to mechanical in 1.5 AoE. 30 second cool down
Thor Energy Removed
unit re-added: Warhound, replaced rail gun and haywire missile with dual rocket pods
Warhound require Armory
Warhound has 150 hp 1 armor and is classified as armored mechanical
Warhound ground attack: 5 range 2x6 damage (no bonus) (+1 damage per upgrade) no AoE
Warhound air attack: 5 range 2x6 damage (+2 to light) (+1/ per upgrade) 0.5 AoE
Warhound attack period for both attacks is 2 seconds
added a 150m/150g/120seconds upgrade to factory tech lab: Cerberus Booster +3 range to warhound air attack


EXPLANATION:
(warning long)
+ Show Spoiler +
lets start with the hellion, I’ve never liked its attack. It seem really silly to me. Now the hellion has much less range but can attack while moving and attack much faster for lower damage. It has an overall net increase in dps with much less range. Battle hellion mode is unchanged from its current form other than removing the upgrade requirement.
the new widow mine seeder retains its original purpose of passive area denial and attrition but has more counter play with a much smaller individual mine activation range it punishes units that don’t have detection but is countered by most forms of detection. In all its a technical buff to the widow mine's damage at the cost of utility/range (270 (342 with 3 upgrade) single target damage if all mines are activated on the same target) the widow mine can still hit air but must be within2 range to activate. On the ground it has 3 range.
THOR IS HERE AND IN TIER 3 BABY! The Thor's current role is an awkward anti light air/anti tough ground unit/sort of meat shield that doesn't shine in any of these roles. It is nonviable in TvP due to being countered by high templars (feedback) and immortals and its uses in TvZ are to counter mutaballs (and then they get magicboxed). This new Thor is completely pushed into the anti tough unit role by slowing its attack and heavily increasing it's damage. It also further adds to it's innate weakness against swarms of lighter units. The Thor's new basic attack has a cool up time of 1 second before firing to prevent hit and run abuse or silly thorship drop micro from being too strong (still effective but the thor has to be on the ground for 1 second to fire) It also now has a secondary role as a siege breaker (a role blizzard has shown an interest in with the original warhound) due to its new ability Haywire missile strike. This ability has the limitation of 8 minimum range from the Thor but has a whopping 16 range max. it also has an anti mechanical damage bonus and can easily be dodged by mobile units. It primary function would be to kill siege tank lines and to soften defensive emplacements. I think this will not only be an effective ability but one that is fun to watch from a spectator standpoint as it's counter play is micro due to its slow missile speed so landing a great haywire strike will be very rewarding. (it can 1 shot tanks) this will also promote more tank spreading in TvT to prevent haywire strikes to kill more than one tank at a time. fun fact: new thor can 1 shot marauders when fully upgraded. GET ME INTO DA FIGHT!
the Warhound is now a ground Valkyrie from brood war. It attacks by launching 6 mini rockets at a target and is specialized against light air units. It's attack is not very strong against ground and non light air targets due to armor being 6x effective but it also inversely gains a large attack bonus from upgrades, making this unit able to take advantage of upgrade advantages in the early/mid game. And always deal a minimum of 6 damage to targets with armor. It essentially replaces the Thor's old anti air role and position on the tech tree.


TERRAN STARPORT CHANGES:
(“In the pipe five by five!”)

Fighter mode Viking unit tag changed from armored to light
Assault mode Viking unit tag removed (not light or armored)
Assault mode Viking attack changed from 12(+1/upgrade) to 7x2(+1
New Starport tech lab research: 50m/50g/60seconds vikings can move while transforming
Medivac unchanged
Banshee rotor blades removed and replaced with a glow inside the wing holes because I say so
Battlecruiser range increased to 7
Make Raven look more terran and factory like
Change Raven name to Njord
Njord(raven) Auto Turrets energy cost changed from 50 to 25
Njord(raven) Corvid reactor (+25 starting energy) changed to Fraeljord Reactor +50 max energy same costs (250 new max energy)
Auto Turrets health changed from 150 to 100 armor changed from 1 to 0
Auto Turret Damage changed from 8 to 7
Durable Materials upgrade removed
Building Armor now also provides the bonuses from Durable materials and gives the auto turret +2 armor (counts as a building)

EXPLANATION:

+ Show Spoiler +
I feel like the viking sound have been a light unit from the start and that there are too many “armored” units in the game as it is. It also is a big buff the the usability of the phoenix in PvT and should promote more interesting air dominance wars in TvT. This change doesn't change much in the TvZ matchup. The viking's new matchups are affected as follows:
Weaker Against:
Pheonix
new Warhound
new anti light Stalker (match up unchanged)
unchanged against:
zerg
capital ships
tempest
stronger against:
other vikings (makes viking wars less binary due to the unit no longer being its own counter)

ground viking gain +2 dmg per upgrade but also reduces its effectiveness vs armor. To compensate it fires slightly faster resulting in a slight net dps boost. Will also make the viking better at killing workers in ground mode making it a better harasser. And also no longer activates the immortal's hardened shield. It also no longer is tagged as armored or light when on the ground and only takes bonus damage from vs mechanical which will help its survivability against anti armor counters. It can now also gain the ability to move while changing modes but requires a tech lab at the starport to do so.
The battlecruiser has suffered for a while and I think giving it +1 range over marines is justifiable in its own right. Could be OP I dont know it would have to be tested.
Now for the Raven :} the raven is just a weird terran painted arbiter from starcraft 1 and its visual style does not match its function whatsoever. Change it to a beefier looking flying mini factory looking unit and it will fit much nicer. Changing it's starting energy upgrade to a max energy upgrade means that it can now cast 2 seekers at full energy. Its auto turrets energy cost has been reduced by half and it has gotten some small nerfs to compensate. The durable materials upgrade is now incorporated into the building armor upgrade to reduce the number of upgrades needed for maxed ravens.


OVERALL PROJECTIONS FOR TERRAN:
+ Show Spoiler +
the changes to terran and mostly tweaks to make them more enjoyable to watch. The sweeping changes in the factory will make late late game terran mech much stronger and more dynamic. The air power of the vikings is now vulnerable to phoenix weapons but can be supported by warhounds to clear the skies. Widow mine seeders punish enemies who dont get detection and can help protect difficult to defend expansions from runbys and drops.


ZERG CHANGES:
(“Live for the Swarm!”)

yo kerrigan im rly happy for you and imma let you finish, but the Overmind was the best Zerg leader of all time, ALL TIME!

OPENING STATEMENT:
(“noof noof” -Guardian)
+ Show Spoiler +
the zerg by far have the most extreme changes in store. Many units have been changed to be invidually mutated from lesser zerg strains. There is literally too many changes to sum up in an opening statement to lets just dive right into it. I will save the explanations til the end as the zerg tech tree is different than terran and protoss. Lets start at the hatchery.


HATCHERY TECH CHANGES:
(“Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright!”)

Queen range changed from 7 to 6
Baneling Nest changed to Locust Nest
Baneling removed
new zergling mutation Locust
Locust costs 50m/15g/15seconds .5supply (75m/15g/1supply total)
Locust Health 60 armor 0 tagged “light” “biological”
Locust Damage 3x2 (+1/upgrade) (+2 vs light)
Locust passive ability: Leap. Leaps to target at 2 range
Locust movement speed: 2.85 off creep
New upgrade available at the Locust Nest (see lair tech)
Roach cost changed from 75/m25g/2supply to 50m/25g/1supply. 15% smaller
Roach health changed from 145 to 105
Roach melee attack +claws on model removed
Acid spew changed from 16(+2/upgrade) to 13(+1/upgrade)
New roach warren upgrade:
Digestive Bile costs 100m/100g/80seconds. When the roach attacks it heals for 5 health
Glial reconstitution removed
Tunneling claw removed


LAIR TECH CHANGES:
(“Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me!”)

New upgrade available at the Locust Nest: Chameleonic Camouflage requires lair
costs 150m150g110seconds Locusts can only bee seen from 5 range without detection
New Roach Mutation: Nydalisk requires 200/200 research from Roach Warren
Nydalisk looks like a sort of roach/centipede hybrid with large talon's like a queens
Nydalisk costs 50m/50g/1supply (100m/75g/2 supply total)
Nydalisk health: 185 1 armor
Nydalisk movement: 2.15 off creep
Nydalisk Attack dmg: 18(+2/upgrade) 1.5 range
Nydalisk Attack period: 1.95 seconds
Nydalisk Passive ability: Burrow movement speed changed to 2.45 off creep while burrowed
New Roach Mutation: Infestor (cost of roach deducted)
Infestor removed from larva
Fungal Growth Now slows by 90-0% over 2 seconds instead of snare
Summon Infested Terran changed to Summon Sporeling same stats as infested terran
Infestation Pit requires Roach Warren
Hydralisk Cost changed from 100/50/2 to 75/50/1
Hydralisk Health changed from 90 to 75 10%smaller
damage changed from 16(+1/upgrade) to 14 (+1/upgrade)
Hydralisk Movement upgrade moved to lair tech
New Building requires Hydralisk Den: Swarm Lair
New hydralisk mutation: Swarm host requires swarm lair
Swarm Host no longer creates locusts
Swarm hosts create mini banelings
Swarm host Baneling deals 30(+3/upgrade) damage in 1.5 AoE
Swarm host Baneling movement speed: 2.75 off creep
Swarm host Baneling health: 55
locust duration upgrade to baneling duration numbers unchanged.
Corrupter cost changed from 150/100/2supply to 75m/100g/1supply
Corrupter reduced in size
Corrupter HP changed from 200 to 130 armor changed from 2 to 1
Corrupter damage changed from 14+6 vs massive to 12+5 vs massive
Corrupter range changed from 6 to 5
Corruption changed to: corrupter attacks slow by 10% for 2 seconds stacks up to 3 times



HIVE TECH CHANGES:
(“For the very hour of the sleeper's rebirth is at hand, and soon my greatest creation shall be loosed!”)

Hive no longer requires infestation pit.
Hive requires Hydralisk Den
New upgrade available at infestation pit: Tunneling Claws 150m/150g/120s increases burrow move speed by 30%
New hydralisk mutation: Hunter Killer
HK costs 75m/50g/1supply (total 150m/100g/2 supply
Looks like a 4 armed scorpion/hydra hybrid with big spike racks
HK Health: 110 Armor: 1
HK movement: 2.55
HK damage: 5x4 (+1/upgrade)
HK range: 7
HK attack period: 1.15
New Swarm Lair research: Acid coated spines 200m/200g/60seconds
HK attacks gain +2 vs armored
Ultralisk cost reduced from 300/200/6 to 200/150/4
Ultralisk Health changed from 500 to 400
Ultralisk Cleave removed
Ultralisk Damage changed from 15(+20 vs armored) to 25 (+3/upgrade) +20 vs structures
attack period changed from 0.861 to .961
Ultralisk speed upgrade also grants a unit pushing 4 range charge on autocast with a 4 second cooldown minimum range 2 with a 1.5 aoe 90degree knockback effect on non massive enemy units.
Burrow charge removed
New Ultralisk Cavern Research: mutate Omegalisk costs 150m150g60seconds
Omegalisk mutates from Ultralisk
Omegalisk costs 100m/50g/2supply
Omegalisk HP: 500 armor 2 (does not benefit from ultralisk +2armor)
Omegalisk speed slightly slower than speed ultralisks
Omegalisk Damage: 9x4 (+1/upgrade)
Omegalisk Attack Period: 0.861
Omegalisk Range 1.0
Omegalisk Passive: Cleave. each attack deals 50% damage in 1.5 AoE
Viper now mutates from mutalisk
Viper abduct ability changed to feeding tendril latches on to a biological unit and steals 10 health/seconds 4 range 3 energy/second
Broodlord moved from corruptor mutation to mutalisk mutation cost adjusted to same overall cost
Broodlord attack changed from spawn broodlings on hit to deals additional 7 damage (+1/upgrade) over 5 seconds. If a unit dies while the damage over time is in effect 2 broodlings spawn.
Broodlord Impact damage (20) unchanged. Shot storing removed
New unit: ScourgeLord requires greater spire mutates from corrupter
Scourgelord costs 75 minerals 150 gas 2 supply (150m/250g/3supply total)
Scourgelord health 200 armor 2 (biological massive flying)
Scourgelord speed 1.95
Scourgelord stores up to 5 scourge. 1 Scourge take 3 seconds to spawn. Sends out all stored scourges when attacking.
Each Scourge has 45 hp 0 armor and moves at 4.75 speed
Scourge explode on contact (0range) and deal 30(+20 vs armored) (+2/1 per upgrade) damage each can only target air units
Scourgelord attack range 13


EXPLANATION(s):
+ Show Spoiler +
ok. big changes. Lots of new stuff. Might be a little overwhelming so lets break it down.
Zerglings dont turn into banelings. They turn into beefier anti light Locusts with a mini leap and radius based stealth at lair tech. These new guys are base raiding terrors and will tear up light units.
The roach is now smaller cheaper and weaker. It also costs only 1 supply. Roach is now a massable lifestealing unit and it has had it's burrow move and healing removed. The roach now mutates into the Infestor once you have an infestation pit. It can also mutate into our first new unit
The Nydalisk. Think big caterpillar/centipede/zerg. Also think very slow above ground moderately fast burrow moving. It is an ambushing unit with a role sort of like current mid/late game roach. It has 2 range. It requires an expensive upgrade at the roach warren to unlock so it is now a conscious decision to tech into.
The infestor's fungal growth no longer snares units. It now slows them initially by 90% and this slow decreases over 2 seconds to 0%. also infested terran are replaced by sporelings. Same unit different look.
Hydralisk is smaller cheaper and 1 supply hydra speed is now lair tech.
there is now a new building that requires the hydralisk den called the swarm lair. The swarm host is now tied to this building and mutates from the hydralisk. Instead of spawning locusts the swarm hosts spawn mini banelings.
The Hunterkiller is a new unit the mutates from the hydralisk at hive tech. It has 4 attacks and 7 range and can be upgraded with a bonus vs armored. Its a larger more expensive spikier looking hydra/scorpion. It will be much more able to go toe to toe with other race's late game units buts costs more supply and is slower than the hydralisks. Making using these units more of a commitment.
The corruptor is also getting the cheaper weaker 1supply treatment. It now slows enemy ships stacking up to 30%. corruptors now mutate into scourgelords when greater spire is up
Scourgelord spawns scourges at a slow rate but can store up to 5 in its body. When it attacks it lauches all its scourges at long range and they try to suicide bomb their targets. Surviving scourges return to the scourge lord if there are no more targets nearby. Scourges are able to be targetted and have little hp but deal tremendous damage when they hit and move very quickly.
Viper can now deal some direct damage by stealing hp from biological units. Replaces abduct
Broodlord now mutates from mutalisks and no longer spawns broodlings on each hit but deals damage over time for 5 seconds/shot (stacks) and if a unit is killed by any source while taking damage over time it spawns 2 broodlings. This means broodlords are more effective against large groups of weaker units like marines because they will spawn more broodlings.
Ultralisk is cheaper weaker and costs 4 supply instead of 6. it no longer cleaves but gains a 4 range charge with a small area of effect knockback on non massive targets with a minimum range. Its also now has large bonus damage vs structures. Ultralisks can mutate into Omegalisks after a quick upgrade at the ultralisk cavern
Omegalisk is the last new unit. It is very similar to the current ultralisk with 1 less armor and slightly less speed but deals much more damage in an aoe with its 4 cleave attacks.
Hope that helped clear up any confusion with the stats, I know they can be a little awkward to visualize with just raw data.


OVERALL PROJECTIONS FOR ZERG:
+ Show Spoiler +
Lots of stuff to discuss here. Even though the baneling is gone from tier 1 the zergling can mutate into a stronger version with an anti light modifier filling the gap nicely. Since zerg now have much more options of weaker 1 supply medium low hp units it means they can have a very large high damage efficiency army made up of roaches and hydras but they will be melted by any area effect damage you opponent brings on the field. However now instead of seeing his colossus army or siege tank line after having build a large army of roach hydra is no longer the end of the world. You can mutate your roaches into infestors or hydralisk to ambush and throw off your opponent and mutate your hydralisks into swarm hosts to siege your enemy with mini banelings. And eventually you can mutate your hydras into hunterkillers. Bigger meaner anti armor hydras in hive tech that can actually stand up a little bit fo AoE damage and dish out pain of their own. Corrupters are now cheaper and more massable and slow enemies they fight. So now their role is to hunt down and catch enemy ships and slow them so the rest of you forces can move in to take them out. Scourgelords are going to be the zerg air dominance monster. It spawns killable suicide scourges that tear apart armored targets like tempests and battlecruisers and sends them out at long range. The ultralisk is now easier to get and cheaper with a charge/knockback mechanic that could see some interesting plays with flanking attacks pushing enemy forces into your nydalisks or into range of your hunter killers. It also provides a lategame reliable wallbuster with its anti building attack bonus. The omegalisk is the late late game anti mass melee units. Its cleave is very stong and will tear apart marines, zealots and zerglings like a meat grinder.

All these changes makes the zerg army feel more like a constantly adapting and evolving swarm of smaller units en mass supported by specialized mutated strains.



CLOSING THOUGHTS:
overall I think these changes would make for an interesting change from the current incarnation of starcraft 2. it would be really cool if blizzard decides to make their expansions have much broader changes like this as it would make each one its own game with its own set of strategies. And each previous incarnation would still be playable with its own style. But i am daydreaming I know. Maybe for legacy of the void :D.

in the mean time i will be in this thread and updating with my own fan art or other fan art if anyone else makes any.

post thoughts and comments. Quote sections you are referring to to make it easier to keep our thoughts organized.

PS apparently posting a combine of community generated ideas in the hots forum gets you crucified and your thread closed for "having too much information" so im reposting it here.
"Drone is better"
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8306 Posts
November 01 2012 20:04 GMT
#2
Even with the slight changes to zealots and stalkers I'm pretty sure without sentries at gateway level protoss just would get absolutely rolled. But that's just my opinion. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
ClysmiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2192 Posts
November 01 2012 20:23 GMT
#3
On November 02 2012 05:04 TheDougler wrote:
Even with the slight changes to zealots and stalkers I'm pretty sure without sentries at gateway level protoss just would get absolutely rolled. But that's just my opinion. Thanks for taking the time to post this.

It depends on how he balances the other races around that change (I didn't read all of the other changes), but it is doable. Just think of Brood War.
MugenXBanksy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States479 Posts
November 01 2012 20:35 GMT
#4
Not feeling your ideas/suggestions really especially the sentry thing and the changed wg mechanic You make it sound like a punishment going for warpgate even though warping in a immortal is quite comical to imagine its like a fat dragon in a way but I feel the suggest dmg nerf to the immortal would make them less of a benefit and the upgrade needed to make them have that same durability. And the Sentry coming from Robo. To be honest I never really liked the Void Ray to begin with in the days long past when I started playing in 2010 and mass Void Rays was a common occurrence in bronze league as that was the only place that , that kind of thing could happen. I've come a long way from that now though.

You collected proposes or terran and zerg sounds alot better then the protoss ideas. And alot of them sound like they mech changes and toss changes came from BronzeKnees there in which many people argued with him that his idea were bad especially about buffing the siege tank.


we all hope to be like whitera one day
fouquet
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada29 Posts
November 01 2012 21:12 GMT
#5
most of the protoss ideas are not my own they are from ItWhoSpeaks protoss identity thread. i made a few small tweaks to them but they are mostly his. they seem to be the biggest complaint so far so i think i will revise them
"Drone is better"
Liszt
Profile Joined August 2012
Austria86 Posts
November 01 2012 22:07 GMT
#6
fire dustin browder and give this guy his job pls
RxDamitol
Profile Joined February 2011
United States83 Posts
November 01 2012 22:08 GMT
#7
You could do all these changes in the map editor and make a custom map to try it out. Would be interesting, at least.
Greedy beats Safe, Safe beats Cheesy, and Cheesy beats Greedy.
MerdaPura
Profile Joined February 2012
Brazil148 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-02 17:05:41
November 01 2012 22:15 GMT
#8
I stopped reading after the warpgate and sentry changes, anyone who read it through, does it get any better after that?

EDIT: OK, I read it through, please someone tell me this is a late april fools joke, I dont believe anyone can actually take this shit seriously LOL
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
November 01 2012 22:25 GMT
#9
On November 02 2012 07:07 Liszt wrote:
fire dustin browder and give this guy his job pls
I sincerely hope you don't really think that db's job can be replaced by a few lines of concepts.
Banchan
Profile Joined May 2011
United States179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 22:49:21
November 01 2012 22:30 GMT
#10
why did you make 2 identical threads?

edit: didn't read the last sentence. Your post basically boils down to a lot of protoss nerfs, proper balancing of certain terran units (raven, BC), and plenty of zerg buffs disguised between a few minor nerfs. That's why you got flamed in the last post

In other words, it's pretty obvious that you are a zerg player and just want to make your race stronger.
ian952
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada124 Posts
November 01 2012 22:42 GMT
#11
I think instead of posting your version of starcraft 2.5, maybe you can use the time to actually make a custom map.
...
fouquet
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada29 Posts
November 01 2012 22:50 GMT
#12
On November 02 2012 07:30 Banchan wrote:
why did you make 2 identical threads?

edit: didn't read the last sentence. Your post basically boils down to a lot of protoss nerfs, proper balancing of certain terran units, and plenty of zerg buffs disguised between a few minor nerfs. That's why you got flamed in the last post

In other words, it's pretty obvious that you are a zerg player and just want to make your race stronger.



if you read any of my responses you'd know that the protoss changes are ones i saw ItWhoSpeaks write up with a few tweaks. i thought they were interesting. im not a zerg player. im not trying to nerf protoss. im trying new ideas. bringing ideas that are scattered into one thread. yes i spent more time on the terran and zerg changes and maybe i should go over the protoss again but i really dont like being informed that im trying to mislead anyone or influence imbalances towards one race or another.
"Drone is better"
WeRRa
Profile Joined December 2010
378 Posts
November 01 2012 22:55 GMT
#13
On November 02 2012 07:15 MerdaPura wrote:
I stopped reading after the warpgate and sentry changes, anyone who read it through, does it get any better after that?

Can someone tell me why anyone wants sentries and warpgates? Both seems pretty broken to me, warping units instant and wherever you want brought us to the broken pvp we got now and the sentry, base a tier 1 army around one spellcasting unit is pretty stupid.
InnoVation Fighting!!!
MugenXBanksy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States479 Posts
November 01 2012 22:59 GMT
#14
On November 02 2012 07:15 MerdaPura wrote:
I stopped reading after the warpgate and sentry changes, anyone who read it through, does it get any better after that?



only if your Terran or Zerg
we all hope to be like whitera one day
[]Phase[]
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium927 Posts
November 01 2012 23:03 GMT
#15
mm I like some of those changes, but if you send out an entire list it seems unlikely theyd take any of it serious. Personally I would make a selection of the really really good ones (through discussion). Maybe also make a poll or something. My all time favorite, one that has been out there for a long time, is the warpgate change.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 23:11:38
November 01 2012 23:10 GMT
#16
On November 02 2012 07:55 WeRRa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 07:15 MerdaPura wrote:
I stopped reading after the warpgate and sentry changes, anyone who read it through, does it get any better after that?

Can someone tell me why anyone wants sentries and warpgates? Both seems pretty broken to me, warping units instant and wherever you want brought us to the broken pvp we got now and the sentry, base a tier 1 army around one spellcasting unit is pretty stupid.


Warp-in is amazing and I don't see anything broken with PvP, apart from Colossus beating everything. Yes, Warpgates made figuering PvP quite hard and it hit too early in the older patches. But seriously, if you still think that PvP is a broken matchup, just because you cannot go Nexus first, then I'm really sorry for you. A question: Many people would say that teching all the way to starport before expand is the best opening for TvT... does that make TvT broken?

Gateway units are not balanced around sentries. No matter how often self-proclaimed designers repeat this. Look up the stats of Broodwar Dragoons and Zealots. Then look up the stats of SC2 Stalkers and Zealots. They match extremly well.
The sentry got added to the Protoss arsenal and people use it because it is clever to do so. If you don't want to use it, go on, make your own build without sentries. Or just copy one for PvT and PvP, as they do exist. For PvZ, well I guess you won't be able to hold roaches without it. Maybe, but probably not. That's just how the metagame evolved. But not how gateway units were designed.


Back to topic. Why is this in custom game section? Can I test this somewhere, is there a map out there on which I can play with these changes? Is there a map coming? I don't get it...
fouquet
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada29 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-02 00:25:38
November 02 2012 00:24 GMT
#17
On November 02 2012 08:10 Big J wrote:

Back to topic. Why is this in custom game section? Can I test this somewhere, is there a map out there on which I can play with these changes? Is there a map coming? I don't get it...


i eventually want to make a map of these changes i just dont have the know how yet. i posted it here after it got flamed down in the hots forum. im not doing this expecting blizzard do drop everything to make these changes or even expect them to even look at these.


im doing this because i like to. im doing this for fun
"Drone is better"
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3301 Posts
November 02 2012 01:08 GMT
#18
Just play Starbow. While still a work in progress, it is already far better than SC2. It is what SC2 should have been.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304955
T P Z sagi
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
November 02 2012 03:18 GMT
#19
the balance is just mehh ... I think even GMs can't balance the game :/ Seriously this's awful
@taefoxy
arcHoniC
Profile Joined January 2011
United States141 Posts
November 02 2012 15:28 GMT
#20
The thing about sentries is that they allow toss to keep up in economy and tech vs the other races without constant unit production. Sentries in the robo facility will destroy any kind of balance WoL had because you can't protect yourself early
'Let's lock the doors and make these guys play all night!' - Tasteless
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