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Forbes: eSports and Online gambling

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-03 19:12:35
October 03 2012 18:52 GMT
#1
Didn't see any post on this, and I just caught this on White Ra's twitter, so I think it's recent.

White Ra just tweeted an interesting article that I just read regarding the growth of eSports and its presence in mainstream culture. The lead:

More 18-24 year old males watched Major League Gaming’s Spring Championship this year than the Rose Bowl. More than twice as many of them tuned into a video game competition compared to the first round of the NBA Playoffs or the NCAA Basketball Tournament. The growth of the industry known collectively as “eSports” is comprised of leagues built around the live and online streaming of competitive matches between players of popular video games such as StarCraft II, League of Legends, and Diablo III. It represents a major cultural and economic shift from old-world, physical forms of entertainment with limited availability to easily accessible virtual entertainment in the online space. It’s a shift that breaks along generational lines, aided by technology that is increasingly integrated into every aspect of our lives.


Link

Full text:
+ Show Spoiler +
More 18-24 year old males watched Major League Gaming’s Spring Championship this year than the Rose Bowl. More than twice as many of them tuned into a video game competition compared to the first round of the NBA Playoffs or the NCAA Basketball Tournament. The growth of the industry known collectively as “eSports” is comprised of leagues built around the live and online streaming of competitive matches between players of popular video games such as StarCraft II, League of Legends, and Diablo III. It represents a major cultural and economic shift from old-world, physical forms of entertainment with limited availability to easily accessible virtual entertainment in the online space. It’s a shift that breaks along generational lines, aided by technology that is increasingly integrated into every aspect of our lives.

The eSports phenomenon and its offshoots have reaped profits for leading video game companies and gotten the attention of traditional entertainment companies. Activision/Blizzard’s Diablo III sold 3.5 million copies in its first 24 hours, and its competitive player vs. player (PvP) update is coming soon. CBS has signed partnership deals with players in the game leagues and live streaming world including Own3D, North American Star League (NASL), Twitch.tv and Major League Gaming (MLG). But arguably this progression of online competition into the mainstream is only the beginning. A number of new companies from gaming start-ups to internally funded casino enterprises are betting that the introduction of legalized online gambling in the US will be the catalyst that drives the market to the next level by creating a whole new kind of ecosystem.


The DOJ Has Spoken: It's Time For Congress To Legalize Online Poker
Capital Flows
Contributor
There is a significant demographic divide within gambling in the United States. Casinos still attract large crowds, but increasingly they are populated by middle-aged women pulling slot machine levers. In fact, approximately 60% of casino gamblers are over 50. But that doesn’t mean wager-based entertainment is unappealing to younger people – only that it is manifesting itself in a new way. It should come as little surprise that Facebook is ranked number one on Facebook with over 70 million “likes”. You know what is ranked number two?

Texas HoldEm Poker.

That’s right. The only thing Facebook users like almost as much as Facebook itself is a poker game app developed by Zynga that doesn’t even involve real cash. This is an interesting piece of trivia on its own, but it does not begin to capture the impact of wager-based entertainment on the Internet. It was estimated recently at the Global Gaming Expo that 2011’s Total Online Gambling Revenues were $30 billion, with over 40,000,000 regular poker players globally and 15,000,000 online ‘cash play’ poker players.

Of course, there’s an important distinction to be made here. Receiving a cash prize for winning a StarCraft II competition is legal at the federal level in the United States and, depending on the structure of competition, legal in up to 48 states since it is considered a “game of skill”. Playing online poker for real money, a “game of chance” in the eyes of the law despite the skill involved, has traditionally been illegal in North America. Things are changing, however. The Department of Justice, which last year opened the door to Internet gambling by reversing its opposition to Internet gambling as it relates to the federal Wire Act, has paved the way for states to allow all forms of online gambling with the exception of sports wagering. Revenue-starved local and state governments, with budget holes exacerbated by the economic downturn, are taking action. Nevada was the first to legalize online games of chance such as poker, followed by Delaware. Others such as Iowa, New Jersey, and California are seeking to authorize Internet casino games operated by companies with physical casinos.

The federal government doesn’t want to be left on the sideline. They argue that chaos will ensue since the Internet cannot be contained at state borders, but more importantly, they want their piece of the tax pie. A bill to legalize online poker from Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Republican Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl may appear for a vote before the end of the year.

This brings us back to the evolution of eSports. At first glance, a video game where Terrans and Aliens battle one another in space seems to share little in common with a card game. But not everyone sees it that way. A company called Playhem has built a social wagering and competitive gaming website offering a common platform for head-to-head game play and the streaming of matches. They don’t see traditional video gaming as the necessary limit of eSports; the site is currently being expanded from Starcraft II, League of Legends, and sports video games into the world of online poker. They believe that by breaking the game from the limitations of the physical world (i.e. one person playing one table at one time), while embracing the cerebral competitive nature and entertainment aspects of video games, a completely fresh scene will emerge.


“We see online poker as much closer to a real-time strategy video game than a physical game of table poker,” said Playhem co-founder Keith Swan. “It’s about strong quantitative skills and the ability to process information about opponents, think quickly, and employ calculated risk taking. Of course, there is the nature of online communities and how they prefer to compete. Video games are always at the cutting edge – nothing is more progressive than the ecosystems around Dota 2, Diablo 3, Starcraft II, and League of Legends. We already see behavior in our free Poker apps on Facebook that very closely mirrors that of these hardcore video games – it’s social and participative.”

Social gaming behemoth Zynga has made it perfectly clear they are positioning themselves for a change in gambling legislation. As mentioned earlier, Zynga’s poker apps are massively popular even though players can spend money on chips but not redeem them for anything. The company recently hired Maytal Ginzburg as COO whose previous gig was Senior Vice President of regulated markets at 888 Holdings, a U.K-based online gambling operator. In 2013 they will launch real money poker in countries where it is legal and they have reportedly begun lobbying efforts in Washington. No one has more data on social gaming behavior than Zynga, although their casual games are apples and oranges to the most popular hardcore gaming titles.

Of course, it’s impossible to completely discount the casino behemoths that have dipped their toes into tech. Caesars runs online gambling sites in Europe and bought social and mobile game developer Playtika last year. Bally Technologies and International Game Technology acquired the first online gaming licenses in the U.S, allowing them provide certain systems and services to casino operators. It is not full national online gambling yet, but it’s a clear step in that direction.

The only thing certain is the culture of playing competitive games online is evolving at warp speed. eSports tells us that the likely winners in the online gambling market will be not only the obvious casino players, but also others that embrace the full spectrum of entertainment and social media around it.


The idea of having eSports help legalize online gambling is interesting to me. I think it would certainly help grow the idea and help make it mainstream - presuming that gambling became legal. But there are also dangers imo with monetizing eSports in a way like this. We would open up the community to scandals where people get addicted to gambling etc. We could potentially ruin our smaller sense of community when the spectator sport turns into a way to get money. And I think the potential for something like match fixing could easily increase if people thought they might lose money in a high stakes match (sabotage of some kind?) There would always be the potential for a desperate gambler to take things too far.

What do all of you think? Would this help, or would it hurt eSports?

Edit: As an aside, I personally think this is good. Anything lobbying in D.C. (even if it doesn't legalize gambling or anything) is good because it brings more exposure. In my opinion at least.
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-03 18:56:06
October 03 2012 18:55 GMT
#2
fine by me since its a norm on regular sports. as long as harsh punishment is given to violators and organizations (like kespa) keep an eye on players and coaches to make sure what has happened dont happen again.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Holytornados
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1022 Posts
October 03 2012 19:49 GMT
#3
This would legitimize esports, in a way, especially to the general public. I'm all for it.

Doesn't hurt that I'm in favor of gangling in general.
CLG/Liquid ~~ youtube.com/reddedgaming
Ichabod
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1659 Posts
October 03 2012 19:59 GMT
#4
Competitive Diablo 3? Well, I guess he wanted to use the sales numbers as a segue.

Gambling would be ok, but the potential for a massive foreigner match fixing scandal is scary, and we're a ways away from the infrastructure to potentially prevent such an event.

(Discussions at JimmyJohns aside)
Ighox
Profile Joined July 2009
Norway580 Posts
October 03 2012 20:10 GMT
#5
I'd like it, I personally don't find SC2 that exciting anymore, but everything gets exciting when you have money on it.
SilSol
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden2744 Posts
October 03 2012 20:12 GMT
#6
I hope this helps esports :O
http://fragbite.se/user/117868/silsol since 2006 http://www.reddit.com/u/silsol77
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
October 03 2012 20:14 GMT
#7
Personally, SC2 was a lot more exciting for me back in the day when I somehow managed to get into the top 100 of the SC2 Liquibet, probably due to my excellent NASL season 1 predictions.

I still find SC2 to be pretty exciting, but having more of an emotional stake in a game does make it more exciting for me to watch, whether it's through a small betting system or through just pure fandom for a player or team.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
scudst0rm
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1149 Posts
October 03 2012 20:15 GMT
#8
:O Forbes article about esports not by John Gaudiosi.
You're like a one ranger army comin' at me...
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
October 03 2012 20:23 GMT
#9
Nice to see a more mainstream article that isn't judging anything and takes a bigger view of the realities.
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
October 03 2012 20:26 GMT
#10
On October 04 2012 04:59 Ichabod wrote:
Competitive Diablo 3? Well, I guess he wanted to use the sales numbers as a segue.

Gambling would be ok, but the potential for a massive foreigner match fixing scandal is scary, and we're a ways away from the infrastructure to potentially prevent such an event.

(Discussions at JimmyJohns aside)

MAYBE D3 could be competitive if they set it up for that.. although WoW never completely took off with its arena combat so I feel like D3 wouldn't either..
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
October 03 2012 20:32 GMT
#11
I don't want another Savior accident to happen where game throwing was done to increase illegal gambling profits. Even if gambling was legal, who's to say that the players are throwing matches or not if there are bets on a match?
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
October 03 2012 21:57 GMT
#12
On October 04 2012 05:26 mrtomjones wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2012 04:59 Ichabod wrote:
Competitive Diablo 3? Well, I guess he wanted to use the sales numbers as a segue.

Gambling would be ok, but the potential for a massive foreigner match fixing scandal is scary, and we're a ways away from the infrastructure to potentially prevent such an event.

(Discussions at JimmyJohns aside)

MAYBE D3 could be competitive if they set it up for that.. although WoW never completely took off with its arena combat so I feel like D3 wouldn't either..

The multiplayer aspect of D3 is terrible at best, Blizzard really screwed up. Diablo 3 as a single player game is awesome, I enjoyed every second of it. However there is no real "Multiplay" to speak of. You are essentially farming for gold, note gold since the drops for any good gear is incredibly rare and your only valid option is to buy from the Auction Hall. And why exactly are you getting better gear? There is nothing to do in the game anyway.

They are, of course, talking about the PvP aspect and expanding the multiplay experience but so far there is nothing at all. As it is right now D3 is a terrible game multiplay wise and they have lost a large percentage of their player base as can be seen here:
http://beta.xfire.com/games/d3

When the game was released D3 had over 30k hours played per day, now it's down to 9k a day. As it is right now D3 is not suited for competitive gaming since it has no multiplay to speak of.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
legoboomette
Profile Joined December 2011
England165 Posts
October 03 2012 22:04 GMT
#13
Legalising gambling in esports? That sounds pretty dangerous, especially considering Starcraft's history with gambling...
Won(*3*)Chu KissMe!
ishyishy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
October 03 2012 22:15 GMT
#14
I always enjoy a good scandal or drama breakout. I cant wait
GriMeR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States148 Posts
October 03 2012 22:16 GMT
#15
I am not sure how I feel about eSports being compared so closely to gambling, however where it was mentioned that SC2 is a game of skill, this is true. I suppose I am all for this, so long as the government doesn't find a way to ruin it for us.
"Now let's have coffee and discuss the bunker build time!" "I'm still kinda on the fence about it Dustin, we can't make changes like these on a whim" "Agreed, agreed ... what do you think David?" "Hmmm what? ... I mean, o yeah, Terran definitely seems
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-03 22:17:56
October 03 2012 22:17 GMT
#16
On October 04 2012 05:26 mrtomjones wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2012 04:59 Ichabod wrote:
Competitive Diablo 3? Well, I guess he wanted to use the sales numbers as a segue.

Gambling would be ok, but the potential for a massive foreigner match fixing scandal is scary, and we're a ways away from the infrastructure to potentially prevent such an event.

(Discussions at JimmyJohns aside)

MAYBE D3 could be competitive if they set it up for that.. although WoW never completely took off with its arena combat so I feel like D3 wouldn't either..

Blizz has stated they will make no effort to balance D3, and they do not want it to be an esport.
Refer to my post.
StateofReverie
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States633 Posts
October 04 2012 00:33 GMT
#17
damn I didn't realize e-sports in general was that big
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-04 00:54:14
October 04 2012 00:53 GMT
#18
Gambling could seriously hurt us. If we eat another Savior scandal just as we're busting into the mainstream, there's going to be a huge regression. I'm not sure if eSPORTS gambling is a good thing for us yet.
Maybe when we get more legitimate, but as it stands, hell no. We're too small with too little rules and regulations to stand a large burst of gambling, and as a result, match-fixing. If you don't think gambling will result in match-fixing, you don't know human nature. The only unsure thing is how big the match-fixing players are going to be.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
CloudMage
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada221 Posts
October 08 2012 21:21 GMT
#19
Would be nice if you didnt post the full text on TL, just the intro paragraph and a link would be better because then everyone would go to Forbes website to read this and the read count would be higher and if enough people read it there it could make it onto the top5 five most read articles on Forbes and that could create an opportunity for a lot more exposure to people not in the eSports world.
HuK <3 WhiteRa <3 Grubby <3 TLO <3 Day[9] <3
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
October 08 2012 21:23 GMT
#20
esports does not need gambling, lol....
blabberrrrr
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