My goal with this was to make a playable map that would (hopefully) fix things I don't like - like every other mapper out there. 1 - A rather short rush distance main to main, making 1-base play more viable than most maps permit ; especially, combined with the fact it is 2p, I hope to allow people to attack before getting a third, which has become increasingly rare. 2 - To compensate with that, the nat to nat distance is actually a bit long : while 1 base rushes are something I like and that has disappeared, 2-base allins are still alive, kicking and boring. 3 - An important contrast between tight, bloody, murderous chokes and huge areas of open space. A good example is the open ground before the natural : you never want to fight there, especially as protoss, so you need to hold the chokes around it, which are meaner than average. Position becomes more important than usual, and cost efficency can be pretty good, hopefully allowing for comebacks. 4 - Two last bases very close to each other, making the middle a very tense staging point in the lategame - but, to allow both players to control those bases at the same time (unlike on Antiga, for example), I needed to put chokes there so you can't just walk in and kill stuff. 5 - A LOT OF LOS BLOCKERS. Because they're awesome. There, I said it. The xel nagas are far away from the main path for that reason - I didn't want them to mess with the line of sight blockers, especially those in the middle, since it would make the map Antiga-like : if you hold the middle, the enemy can't know what you're doing except by making sacrifices ; but you have to scout about what's on the other side too. 6 - A very vulnerable to air main, because turtly play would be too strong on a map where you only need 7 gateways to wall off every choke to your main/nat/third complex without other weaknesses to compensate. Watch out for drops :D. To clarify, you can't warp into the main from the lowest ground level ; blink play is possible from the reaper backdoor, though.
Hope you enjoy the map as much as my testers did ! Just ask Ferisii, Scorp and Oxygenesis - games are more epic here than average, although that may be due to just lack of skill on the part of my bronze-diamond players :D
Wait - that guy's not hellion, is he ? Hilarity ensues That's only the third in the game - wasn't till the 8th I found the knack in defending those --'
And now for the end comment :
On September 13 2012 04:51 absolutionsc wrote: Sick map name, dude =)
I like the concepts. I think you should ditch the towers (they are only good for ezmode watch for drops, otherwise just add unnecessary security for lategame areas). I don't like the ice hole on the low ground, I think you should stick to the brutal choke or wide open paradigm. And this should be open anyway I believe. It narrows the terrain too much there, if anything you could use some small dots instead for much the same desired effect without choking a narrow stretch.
Most important thing though: the dynamic with the open area in front of the natural with forward chokes needs to be examined more closely. At the timing when you are trying to take the 3rd, you cannot hold those chokes in front of the open area, let alone the back ramp with the rocks. If you were trying to attack and it fails or you decide not to, and try to take a 3rd instead, maybe that would work. But that's more of a failed attack weird scenario anyway. (Possibly it could be a viable new option but I doubt it with how close the 4th is, you're just behind and can't punish a fast 4th.)
Good news: I think you can fix that by just adjusting the chokes. Take Daybreak as example. At first people would turtle up inside the natural even as the 3rd was going down, and wait to scout an attack or for an attack to hit before they decided to move out onto the open ground. These days, people will actively hold the open ground at the ramp because of the extreme narrowness while the rocks are there, which helps them be a little bit closer to respond at the 3rd as well or loop behind the attacker and 2prong them.
I would severely tighten at least one of those chokes. I would prefer the middle one with the LosB because it is the pivot point for attackers to enter the area. If it stays wide open, it's easy to threaten there first, meet the main defensive force, and go to either side and the defender is easily split and has to forfeit the area anyway. If the middle is narrow, the defender can hold it with a small force and have the main army nearby to meet whichever side the attacker choose (ramp by main or 3rd ramp).
Generally I like this better than Daybreak (most direct comparison). It has an interesting Metalopolis flair with the middle as well while that area has its own identity during different phases of the game. Would like to see some games or play it.
I do not believe the 3rd is too hard. It is closer to the main AND attacks at the third are far harder because you attack up a ramp and additionally the ramp is tightened by rocks. You can just park your forces inbetween natural and third (behind the LOSBs) and be close enough to the third to defend it and close enough to easily flank your opponent if he tries to move into the nat. The main difference to Daybreak is the distance of the 3rd.
I think you should move the 11 o´clock and 5 o´clock expansion closer to 12 and 6 o´clock and try if you can do something about the heavy circle syndrome. By taking your 5th you just don´t really open more attack paths to your opponent.
On September 13 2012 04:04 Aunvilgod wrote: I do not believe the 3rd is too hard. It is closer to the main AND attacks at the third are far harder because you attack up a ramp and additionally the ramp is tightened by rocks. You can just park your forces inbetween natural and third (behind the LOSBs) and be close enough to the third to defend it and close enough to easily flank your opponent if he tries to move into the nat. The main difference to Daybreak is the distance of the 3rd.
I think you should move the 11 o´clock and 5 o´clock expansion closer to 12 and 6 o´clock and try if you can do something about the heavy circle syndrome. By taking your 5th you just don´t really open more attack paths to your opponent.
I don't think the 3rd is hard it's just that the concept of forward chokes doesn't work as intended.
Taking the 5th opens you to a much shorter attack distance on your newest mining base, which pulls you far out of position from your main cluster if you want to camp it. Not sure it's so much cs..?
There isn't much CS - by the time you get your fifth you should be watching over the middle, Shakuras Plateau style. That's another reason there ain't no watchtowers there :D but then your opponent wants to do that too - so there's tension and things can happen pretty quickly.
Also, my zerg testers complained the third was too easy to hold - easy to understand, since you need only 7 gateways, or 5 and 2 pylons, to wall off completely. I don't think I'm making things more choky anytime soon ^^
On September 13 2012 04:51 absolutionsc wrote: Sick map name, dude =)
I played a few games on it and the LOSB were a ton of fun. They created some very interesting positioning conflicts between a bio and gateway army, and even when I had observers with my army I still had to account for them. Really well done
Okay Mr. Dreamforge bro. I think the 3rd needs to be a little farther away, you need to scrap the 4th, and move the 5th closer. Currently I feel the 3rd and 4th are way to close to each other, plus I feel they are way to close to the natural with how choked off they are. There is a lot of room in the NW and SE corners you can use, there is no point to keep them as blank as they are, it's just a waste of map space.
If you deleted your current 4th. Moved your 3rd farther away, you could then more your current 5th closer to the corner of your map and it'd be a great 4th.
Plus I agree with EatThePath, those watchtowers........../barf. Get rid of them, or move them. Terrible spot.
I'm happy with how games turned out. The fourth isn't easy to take - it stretches you thin and if the opponent has drops, moving his army from the halfbase to the fourth or from the lowground to your main, in addition to the threat of getting flanked with LoS blockers, make it pretty deniable . If you're willing to do multipronged attacks.
I like to have all bases connetible by creep easily (2-4 tumors). That's my standard, and that's how it is - and it makes players comfortable. They like it that way, I'm not gonna change it. Why should I make such radical changes when everything works well ? Oo
Also, those watchtowers, I don't like them that much either :/ but players want those, and it has made dropping more interesting (people going through the middle, small army fights at the xelnagas). They're not essential - but people like them and they make things happen on the outside of the map.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xTYfc.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NhVmG.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TSxVj.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/keVbx.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pxiv9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GEZoM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Y7CAK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0bvtQ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0Nzla.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/suzVR.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i1sCU.jpg)
