sup tl com, i thought im gonna make a new match point remake based on the textures i already had. Funnily i only used 1 from Breaking Point, the other ones are from the new Korhal Platform set and slightly colored different. I really wanted to get that grey, metal feeling that the broodwar set had. I think it turned out ok. Overall the map is copyed 1:1, i only changed the entrance to the fourth because i had no place to fit in 2 ramps there. I also added another half base in the middle to get a little bit more then then 10. I think 10 and 2 half bases are the perfect setup for 2 player maps. I usually do that on every map i make. You can give me feedback on that base if you want, its changeable. The Towers are weirdly placed if you compare it to other maps. I placed them there to give each player a better defending spot on the highground, which is already the common armee place when on 3 bases. I dont think its too strong for attackers because highground advantaged (vision) would also be there without a tower.
I hope your not mad now Aunvilgod, i already had that planned before i knew about your map. and yours is a bit different anyways.
Hmm I did an exact copy the first time as well but then decided to simplify the layout. Luckily. Our maps would have been very similar. What I think is a big diviation from the original on your map is the 3rd.
Regarding balance: Tanks can´t hit the 5th from the main, yes? One of the reasons I did not put the tower onto the highground is that I think it would be too easy to wall off the 2 wide ramp at the nat and then have just a bunch of tanks sit on the highground or even inbetween nat and 3rd so they can shut both ramps. A possible solution would be to make the ramp leasd up to the nat instead of leading up to the 3rd. You might have to move the FFE choke back a bit though.
The half bases in the middle... I doubt they will have much impact. So hey why not.
On September 12 2012 04:05 Dexington wrote: Wasn't this map remade like a year and a half ago already? I remember a Day9 daily on said map, I believe qxc was playing.
Yeah by Prodigy. Kinda outdated for the current metagame as far as I remember. And not too pretty.
On September 12 2012 05:25 Qikz wrote: Maybe it's just me remembering playing Match Point in BW, but is it just me or does the main feel a lot smaller on this version?
Feels pretty similar to me, though that might be because in brood war my building placement was a bit weird at times.
Terranlover, your textures are gorgeous. Would you consider making them available for others to use
I love the style of the terrain as well, but would you consider putting a ramp down from the main or some high ground overlooking the entrance with LOSB to allow for forcefield against 4gate?
-Shouldn't the 3rd be a half base? That way you actually have to take the corner to play a real game and use all this glorious map.
-Why not single ramp down from nat? Or at least cover partially with rocks so it's a single ramp at first. Timing attacks against the natural that didn't include siege tanks had to go up and down the high ground in BW, why not here too? You even prevented colossus attacks already so forcefield imba is not a problem.
-Is it just general principle that you open the choke to the low ground base at 6/12? I feel like this is a perfect opportunity to actually try a lategame base with an absurd choke to see how it plays.
Regarding balance: Tanks can´t hit the 5th from the main, yes?
i dont see how that matters at all
Wasn't this map remade like a year and a half ago already? I remember a Day9 daily on said map, I believe qxc was playing.
yes but its ugly and it sucks
Maybe it's just me remembering playing Match Point in BW, but is it just me or does the main feel a lot smaller on this version?
appropriated for sc2 size
Shouldn't the 3rd be a half base? That way you actually have to take the corner to play a real game and use all this glorious map.
that doesnt work in sc2
Why not single ramp down from nat?
i gonna do that with rocks
Is it just general principle that you open the choke to the low ground base at 6/12? I feel like this is a perfect opportunity to actually try a lategame base with an absurd choke to see how it plays.
its already really really small but i could make it smaller i guess
Shouldn't the 3rd be a half base? That way you actually have to take the corner to play a real game and use all this glorious map.
that doesnt work in sc2
Wait what? Why?
PvZ will favor a lot of 2 base all-in's because taking a third is (already) difficult and it doesn't have a good gas or mineral return compared to how much you invest to defend it. Protoss would need a fourbase economy to support their deathball that they usually have on 3 base- it would result in Zerg being able to exploit the third a lot easier (so they'd be able to kill Protoss if they tried to expand past 2 bases).
Shouldn't the 3rd be a half base? That way you actually have to take the corner to play a real game and use all this glorious map.
that doesnt work in sc2
Wait what? Why?
because every strategy is based on 3 or 4 full bases with 6, or 8 gasses.
That just means the players do not want to adapt... A smaller base with similar relative gas income will not affect balance directly through the resources (different than the original min only base) but rather through the differences between the main buildings. Hatches are cheap and add production, OCs can fly and get you MULES and scans. But a Nexus? What the fuck do you want to do with an additional Nexus? It is not really a balance problem though. Rather unwillingness to explore new strategies and timings. Can´t hold 3rd vs. Toss all ins? Get Infestors first!
A half base would actually make the midgame longer too and the 3 base economy means that zergs would also need their fourth base to tech to hive.
The problem is mapmakers for the sake of not changing anything are completely stagnating the game and where mineral onlys and half bases are not being explored every game plays out the same. There's not enough variation in the map making I think.
Also why doesn't the small ramp not work in SC2? It allows you to defend it easier and then defend your third with the majority of your forces.
On September 12 2012 21:31 Qikz wrote: A half base would actually make the midgame longer too and the 3 base economy means that zergs would also need their fourth base to tech to hive.
The problem is mapmakers for the sake of not changing anything are completely stagnating the game and where mineral onlys and half bases are not being explored every game plays out the same. There's not enough variation in the map making I think.
Also why doesn't the small ramp not work in SC2? It allows you to defend it easier and then defend your third with the majority of your forces.
If you look above the small ramp is being applied with rocks like cloud kingdom. =]
I am assembling a big post about the 3rd base issue but I'm glad you guys came to share your thoughts. I wish more people posted critical analysis in the map forum, not just vapid one-liners.
It's crazy that just because this map is "match point" people love it. yet in sc2 it won't work. Same ground level main/nat? Great, thanks for screwing up PvP. The third bases are in such terrible spots, especially since you insist on putting the XWT so close to them. The bases in the middle are complete winner bases. (Hello Antigia 2.0!)
Brood war and sc2 are two completely different games and amazing maps in BW just don't work in sc2. I'm sorry to say this but besides the random nolstaga effect from certain brood war fans, this map was just a giant waste of your time to recreate.
On September 14 2012 13:28 SidianTheBard wrote: It's crazy that just because this map is "match point" people love it. yet in sc2 it won't work. Same ground level main/nat? Great, thanks for screwing up PvP. The third bases are in such terrible spots, especially since you insist on putting the XWT so close to them. The bases in the middle are complete winner bases. (Hello Antigia 2.0!)
Brood war and sc2 are two completely different games and amazing maps in BW just don't work in sc2. I'm sorry to say this but besides the random nolstaga effect from certain brood war fans, this map was just a giant waste of your time to recreate.
I must that I don't really agree- the original Match Point was incredible for many reasons, most of which wen're because it was well balanced. What made it amazing was the creative and well-thought-out map design. Like the longer, wider attack paths. And the neutral 12/6 bases. And the long attack distance to the corner bases despite them seemingly being closer to the opponent (given that terranlover changes the nat ramp to include rocks or simply be 1x wide, which is my preferred change). Anyway, I think he did a good job remaking it for SC2 and that it will actually play quite well.
But yes, the main does need to be highground for PvP. Not a difficult change luckily. And the center expos are somewhat winners bases- they could probably just be removed and the map would be fine. Or you could change their location.
On September 14 2012 13:28 SidianTheBard wrote: It's crazy that just because this map is "match point" people love it. yet in sc2 it won't work. Same ground level main/nat? Great, thanks for screwing up PvP. The third bases are in such terrible spots, especially since you insist on putting the XWT so close to them. The bases in the middle are complete winner bases. (Hello Antigia 2.0!)
Brood war and sc2 are two completely different games and amazing maps in BW just don't work in sc2. I'm sorry to say this but besides the random nolstaga effect from certain brood war fans, this map was just a giant waste of your time to recreate.
I must that I don't really agree- the original Match Point was incredible for many reasons, most of which wen're because it was well balanced. What made it amazing was the creative and well-thought-out map design. Like the longer, wider attack paths. And the neutral 12/6 bases. And the long attack distance to the corner bases despite them seemingly being closer to the opponent (given that terranlover changes the nat ramp to include rocks or simply be 1x wide, which is my preferred change). Anyway, I think he did a good job remaking it for SC2 and that it will actually play quite well.
But yes, the main does need to be highground for PvP. Not a difficult change luckily. And the center expos are somewhat winners bases- they could probably just be removed and the map would be fine. Or you could change their location.
True, but when you compare Brood War Match Point and SC2 Match Point, even when they are laid out almost exactly the same they won't play out close to each other at all. This is my problem, sure in bw the unique layout, wider attack paths and layout made it such an incredible map, but when you factor in the units for sc2, and the way units bunch/move together, and the strength of certain units and abilities (blink, warp gate, mutas, etc etc) as well as the units in BW that aren't in Sc2 (lurker, defiler, corsiar) it won't play out the same at all, hence why I think this map just won't work at all and hence why I think it's garbage.
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