• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:08
CET 04:08
KST 12:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview12Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April7Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
BSL Season 21 - Complete Results [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? BW General Discussion Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Join illminati in Luanda Angola+27 60 696 7068
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1723 users

[G/D]TvP Mines Double Expand

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-14 06:07:36
September 07 2012 05:53 GMT
#1
The concept of the strategy is simple: In response to a 12 nexus from Protoss, you get a fast third CC before your second factory, ebay, academy or any other tech. Opening with mines allows you to abuse the fact that Protoss has late detection, due to a later robo bay and thus later observers.

Build Order
I try not to think too deeply into actual numbers, but rather the actions that you need to take in order to get certain buildings up at certain times (Which is a fancy way of saying just build it when you have money). That being said, a rough BO that I came up with was:

9/10 Supply Depot
11/18 Barracks
11/18 Refinary
15/18 Factory
Pull two off gas
16/18 Supply Depot
@100% Factory: Machine Shop
when you scout a 12 nexus, don't put 2 back on gas
23/26 2nd CC
At this point, you should have scouted the 12 Nexus. You should pull SCVs off gas in order to get a faster 3rd CC.
@100% Machine Shop: Mines upgrade
24/26 Supply Depot
30/44 - 3rd CC
Put 2 SCVs back on gas
Ion Thrusters
Ebay/2nd Factory
Armory/Acad, then transition to Hiya Build/Flash Build

*Note that in TurN's replay, he gets only 2 vultures before cutting to get the 3rd CC. Based on what you scout (2 gate after nexus, of 1 gate gas core), you may need to adjust this. Also, based on how many zealots P is making, you may need more marines in order to get mines up.

*TurN gets ion thrusters first, but depending on what P is doing, you may want to get siege mode first. The idea of ion thrusters is that vults can backstab and also lay mines more aggressively in front of dragoons when they come attack you. Unsieged tanks, marines and speed vultures are able to hold off early protoss aggression, like when doing a Fact CC Fact/FD.

Execution
Try to lay mines as aggressively as you can. The idea is that even if Protoss moves out past a certain zone, you can backstab with speed vultures. With speed vultures, it is possible to defend even without tanks/siege mode for a short while, but it is definitely recommended that you research siege mode!

VODs
If you are wondering why players like FlaSh don't use this strat, it's because 1 Rax FE is really common in TvP. However, as a new player, you may want to start of 1 Fact FE, and you will eventually come across a Protoss that 12 nexes and you scout him last.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36475_Mvp_vs_Stork
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/36476_BeSt_vs_Mvp
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/59894_Fantasy_vs_Jaehoon (vs 1 Gate FE)
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/61801_Fantasy_vs_Movie (vs 1 Gate FE)
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/99246_BeSt_vs_Last (vs 1 Gate FE)
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/100873_BeSt_vs_TurN

replays

Turn vs Sang: http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=2039

Hiya and Minus)mvp (6 games): http://www.mediafire.com/?rfccor8022jb3o7

Credits
thx to:
puppykiller for providing a VODs torrent and sorting out VODs by opening
Ver - for his old posts on the build
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 06:13:54
September 07 2012 06:13 GMT
#2
Usually, i would transition into a 9/10 fact after something like this. The protoss will inevitably try to get a third base and perhaps even a fourth to keep up. 9/10 fact simply shuts this down cold (or at least in most cases it will).
In the case that the protoss stays on two bases (go ahead and scout; you are ahead), you have the choice to not produce out of some factories and get some tech up.

One game i think is not quite this (your) build but is very good replay is Flash vs Pure on EyeOfTheStorm.
+ Show Spoiler +



☺
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 06:39:12
September 07 2012 06:36 GMT
#3
On September 07 2012 15:13 Release wrote:
Usually, i would transition into a 9/10 fact after something like this. The protoss will inevitably try to get a third base and perhaps even a fourth to keep up. 9/10 fact simply shuts this down cold (or at least in most cases it will).
In the case that the protoss stays on two bases (go ahead and scout; you are ahead), you have the choice to not produce out of some factories and get some tech up.

One game i think is not quite this (your) build but is very good replay is Flash vs Pure on EyeOfTheStorm.
+ Show Spoiler +

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAvZ1mFjzms&playnext=1&list=PL1BC1AB0B81B7504F&feature=results_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=019RWrtc4kI&feature=watch_response

Yep.

The most recent game would be TurN vs Best on Sniper Ridge. TurN goes for a 9 Factory +1 Weapons timing attack. Even though BeSt opts for a 2 base arbiter strat, BeSt still loses.



Flash's build on EotS was basically the same concept, staying on 1 Fact while double expanding. However he just made Siege Tanks. I think it's because the 3rd on EotS isn't up a ramp and is also easily wallable with 2 depots.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Jukado
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
805 Posts
September 07 2012 17:11 GMT
#4
Nice guide.
May I add that the concept of triple cc behind mines has been applied to barrack double openings aswell.

barrack double
2 facs and 2 shops
(speed and mines then siege)
academy
3rd cc
armoury
ebay
5 facs
7 facs
9 facs

This build can be used when facing a nexus first opener. See how siege is skipped and also the ebay while instead getting vulture upgrades and a 3rd cc.
Barrack double vs double nexus is even-stevens. So after seeing double nexus, if Terran wants to immediately get ahead economically, they use this build. If Protoss goes to 4 gates and observers after the double nexus, Terran has successfully taken the lead and would aim to do 7-10 factory timing. However, Protoss can opt to get a 3rd nexus sooner, as does Stats in both of these games.
After the nexus first vs Reality, Stats gets 2 gates then 3rd nexus (before range).
After the nexus first vs Leta, Stats gets 1 gate, range, robo, then 3rd nexus.
Note that Reality got 1 tank then 4 vults.
Leta got 3 tanks initially though.

Reality vs Stats on Jade (reality spawns behind stats)
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/107126_Reality_vs_Stats/vod


Leta vs Stats Circuit Breaker (top vs bottom)
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/49289_Leta_vs_Stats/vod


To be frank, Terran can still somewhat use the same tactic of a fast 3rd cc behind the threat of vultures even when using a rax double opener vs range goon expo openers.
The tweaks Terran must make: get 1 tank with siege mode initially, and get ebay before 3rd cc.
So your basic build (ie Flashs most cutting edge build) looks like this:
Rax expo
2 facs and 2 shops
(siege, speed, then mines)
Academy
Ebay
CC
Armoury
3rd and 4th fac
Star
5th fac
Science and 2nd armoury
6th and 7th fac

Flash vs Dear on Jade (dear spawns behind flash)

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/117050_Dear_vs_Flash/vod

Flash vs Dear on Ground Zero (top vs bottom)

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/104538_Dear_vs_Flash/vod
Star Tale Public Domain project. Maps: (2)Gates Of Memphis, (2)Marshmallow Toast, (4)Bubbles, (4)Clay Fields, (6)Numbskull Desert. Also the Vaylu Public Domain Tileset. Also Ramp Palettes, Brood War guides and some fun stuff. Links in my profile
Pyre_Fly
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom31 Posts
September 07 2012 22:52 GMT
#5
Boxer famously started this off I believe.....loving the audacity of it :D
"You know what's all the rage this year? Hats."
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
September 07 2012 23:52 GMT
#6
Good to see that someone is making use of the assorted vods I made. This sort of thing is exactly what they were intended for.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
UPro-BW
Profile Joined September 2012
81 Posts
September 09 2012 10:41 GMT
#7
at around ~85 supply comes the factory explosion
"3t4t5t6v7v8v9v" - iloveoov
hewley
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1063 Posts
September 09 2012 14:19 GMT
#8
Thank you for the guide!!!!
I always hated playing against nexus first and bunker rush if you scout them on the last position on a 4player map is kinda meh...
Esports bubble pop, bubble pop
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-14 06:09:21
September 14 2012 06:08 GMT
#9
I've uploaded a small replay pack of 6 games from both hiya and minus)mvp in the OP.

I'll write up my analysis of TurN vs BeSt later.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Rongyi Cup S3 - Playoffs Day 2
CranKy Ducklings180
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 181
UpATreeSC 79
ProTech73
SpeCial 49
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 769
Shuttle 390
Hyuk 45
NaDa 28
Noble 18
Dota 2
monkeys_forever322
NeuroSwarm132
febbydoto9
League of Legends
JimRising 686
C9.Mang0370
Counter-Strike
fl0m1506
taco 540
shahzam434
m0e_tv336
Foxcn284
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1398
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor120
Other Games
summit1g6583
tarik_tv3053
Day[9].tv886
ViBE186
Maynarde120
ZombieGrub16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1172
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH148
• davetesta33
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 27
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21981
League of Legends
• Doublelift4259
• Scarra1886
Other Games
• Day9tv886
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
6h 52m
WardiTV Invitational
8h 52m
Replay Cast
20h 52m
RongYI Cup
2 days
herO vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-04
HSC XXVIII
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.