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Death Note Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
August 30 2012 03:22 GMT
#50
aaaaaah screw it

/in
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 00:19 GMT
#407
I'm going to vote for BlackMamba. Here's why:

One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that.


This is such an incredibly wrong and scummy statement that it's unbelievable. Think about what it means for just a second. Mamba is saying that going out of your way to establish your townieness is unnecessary -- even scummy. It's even one of the first rules in Ver's guide: establish your own innocence in order to create a good atmospere and make it easier to find scum. (forgive me for not citing it directly at this moment; my resources are limited)

Now, why would he want to enforce this? Only scum could possibly want to establish an atmosphere where showing your innocence is a bad thing.

There's also the insinuation that claiming self-aware miller is a poor choice, the questionable case against Hapa (dismissed with an "I wasn't-really-trying" excuse), and the statement that voting for someone doing as little as Palmar would actually be a bad idea. All of this comes together to show somebody that isn't trying to establish a pro-town atmosphere, is pushing the wrong targets, and is definitely scum.

##vote BlackMamba24
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 00:21 GMT
#412
Out. What does it matter? I wasn't here before; I'm here now. If you're going to hold it against me, do so.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 00:49 GMT
#437
On September 01 2012 09:23 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Node - Don't vote BM24, no one's going to vote for him but you and an afk Marv. Your vote is useless where it is. What do you think about my suspicions about HiroPro?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&currentpage=21#401


I think it's incredibly silly to say that nobody will vote for BM24 when 5 or so people have already swung on to Hiro very suddenly (and with reasoning as minimal as "yeah, sure, why not?"). But as for your case:

I don't think Hiro's done anything explicitly scummy. Yeah, he dropped the case against MM, but seeing as the prevailing opinion now is that MM is safe (otherwise there would be more votes on him), there's nothing wrong with that. His contributions hve been less since then, but I haven't seen anything outright anti-town in his filter (contrast with BM). I've got much stronger scum reads. I'll leave my vote where it is for now.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 03:35 GMT
#558
On September 01 2012 12:07 Risen wrote: I'm going to be auto-voting lurkers after today (or maybe even today if the low posting keeps up from you, Node, Marvel, and anyone else I'm missing)


>says he's going to start voting for lurkers
>voted for Palmar

On September 01 2012 11:35 Risen wrote:
Well I can't say I'm surprised. Hope you learn your lesson.


ahahahahahahahahaha

You're mafia trying to distance yourself from the lynch. Hell, you were trying to do this before Palmar even died, when you were the person who made the initial case on him... yet your vote stayed where it was. You made literally a single post against Shady Sands, and from then on it was nothing but Palmar -- then you said oh-said-regretfully that you weren't moving from Palmar because your "real read" never got traction. Ridiculous.

##vote Risen
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 05:36 GMT
#567
On September 01 2012 14:15 Shady Sands wrote:
Also, with Hapa gone, I strongly encourage any cops or blues to act on HiroPro. The guy has to be scum.


I dunno how true that is, since it looks like a town action (?) killed Hapa. I'm not sure since the wording BM24 used was "L's servant", which could mean many things. But it looks more like a townie mistake than scum targeting someone they found dangerous.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 15:14 GMT
#588
On September 01 2012 23:58 strongandbig wrote:
Actually I can give a little bit more now.

my role PM says that rolechecks on me before half the players in the game are dead will return detective and after that point they will return suspicious detective.

This means that 'suspicious detective' isn't just a name for a "miller" role. It's a result of checks people can get. If all suspicious detectives were millers then that wouldn't make any sense - the whole point of millers is that they check the same as scum.


I think this is bullshit. Per his death post, Palmar got a vanilla townie role PM.

##vote strongandbig

The role posted with Palmar's death was the role PM he received, correct?
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 15:17 GMT
#589
Err...

##unvote Risen

##vote strongandbig


Sorry!
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 15:29 GMT
#602
On September 02 2012 00:27 Risen wrote:
I'm going to write up a case regardless of what's happening in thread atm, actually. We'll see what sab comes back with.

My case is going to focus on someone who was hard defending Palmar when they shouldn't have been. I'm going to look very hard at everyone who wasn't voting Palmar and then see what I find.


Don't forget to analyze yourself.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 01 2012 15:33 GMT
#606
On September 02 2012 00:30 HiroPro wrote:
I'm not a miller lol. I'm a cop.


So you're saying it is possible for a check to return Suspicious Detective?
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 02 2012 02:05 GMT
#708
On September 02 2012 10:54 HiroPro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2012 10:53 MrZentor wrote:
Na, I don't think scum knew he was the traitor.


No I don't think so either. But they would have thought he was town and that's where it gets interesting.


I disagree strongly. I think s&b's claim was made at least partially to alert scum that he was a traitor. Put yourself in Kira's position -- you're probably aware that you have at least one supporter hidden among the detectives. Who looks most likely? I'd have to imagine it's the person who claims they're going to start appearing red at some point to checks.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 02 2012 02:30 GMT
#723
On September 02 2012 11:24 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2012 11:21 Risen wrote:
On September 02 2012 11:20 Shady Sands wrote:
On September 02 2012 11:17 Risen wrote:
If I can find something that tells me sab is traitor, that means anyone else can as well. I swear I'm the only one who puts effort into these games. From a game I watched called Bureaucracy. The second I saw HiroPro call sab out for lying/inconsistency I reread sab's filter and the green red thing clicked in my mind so I searched for traitor in the TL search bar. Lo and behold.

+ Show Spoiler +

On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:
Awesome on two counts!

I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust.

Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote:
Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me.

Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role?

Show nested quote +
On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote:
I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role?

The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so...

I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx.

Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge.


+ Show Spoiler +

On August 31 2012 17:27 strongandbig wrote:
Good morning, everyone!

So I've been reading some discussion about this from past games, and I've decided to come forth and claim. I am a self-aware miller.

I'm going to use this post to explain myself and my claim. Hopefully I'll do it well, but I'll also do my best to respond to questions, as well as just to establish my townieness through my play.


So first off, why claim now?
Well, it's clearly now or never. Millers claiming after they're checked are completely useless - in fact, they're worse than useless since they give actual scum cover to hide and potentially waste a lynch.


Second, why claim at all? Well, the main reason is that everyone in this game is a detective.

Usually, the main miller mechanic is that the presence of millers puts some doubt on a DT check and people actually have to discuss it. In a game with 30 people and one or two each of detectives and millers, it's pretty unlikely that the miller actually gets targeted with a DT check. (Unless you have a troll host who makes like the best three townies non-self-aware millers, thank you very much BC.)

But, like I said, in this game everyone is a detective. I know VTs don't get to actually make DT checks - I guess Zeph wasn't lying when he said he would send everyone in the game a copy of the VT role PM. However, in a setup where everyone is a "detective", I expect that there will be a large number of roles which actually do have DT checks. This means that it's much more likely than normal for a miller to get DT checked.

So, it's more important than usual for millers to claim early in this setup. If a non-claimed miller gets DT checked and returns scum, it just fucks with the town and could potentially waste an entire day's lynch. It's much better for the millers to claim on day 1 and then show they're town through their behavior. Like I said before, people claiming miller after day 1 are actively playing anti-town and should be destroyed.




So finally, what should this mean for the town and for me? Well, it obviously puts an onus on me to show I'm town through my play. That's fine, I'm going to do my best to live up to that. It is a very exciting time for my experiment, but I can and will post as much as I can from work, as well as both before and after work. I'm also going to do my best to find scum (although historically I tend to be more successful at judging other peoples' cases and less at making my own, but that's why we have other players to judge my cases as well).

For the rest of the town - it means you have to think critically about what I say. Am I pushing scum objectives? If so, lynch me. Am I promoting useful discussion that gets info out into the thread, or am I promoting trolling, spam, and ragefests? If any of the latter, lynch me. Are my cases good or bad? If they're bad, don't lynch me - bad cases =\= scum. Just tell me why you think they're bad, and see how I respond.

It also means you have to think critically about what other people are saying about me. Putting myself out as a miller should naturally draw attention to me, and that's something scum could try and piggy-back or bandwagon on. If people say I'm scum, think critically about their cases and their motivations.

So let's go town!






PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all.

PRE-EDIT TWO: I AM IN EUROPE. This means I will be asleep for deadline; it's at 4:30AM my time. I'll do my best to compensate for this during the days here.



See any similarities?

I wasn't going to say anything, though, because I wanted to see whether a save attempt would come, and guess what? Come it did. Had it built any real steam I would have pointed this out and we would have gotten the sab lynch. Now we have scum who tripped over themselves to try and save the traitor. I'm not even convinced there wasn't a scum guy on sab waiting for one of us to unvote sab so they could come in and be "convinced" as well.

I think the clear lynch is going to be among the list of people who were trying to save sab, though.

What makes you think the scumteam would want to *save* a possible traitor?


I can't even tell if this is a real question or not.

This is a real question.

Let's say scumteam saves a traitor by going all out and all voting for an innocent townie. Townie flips green. Wouldn't the town then proceed to lynch the traitor the next day, and the proceed to lynch the rest of the scumteam for that?

Now think about it this way: scum always needs to build towncred. But building towncred via bussing means sacrificing a contributing scum member. Instead, why not sacrifice a traitor whom the team can't communicate with, and whom the town already suspects?


Well, for starters, it's entirely possible that s&b was, in fact, communicating with the scum team.

Every cycle, you can check a player by PMing all hosts. If that player is Kira, you gain rights to communicate with him and his allies. If that player is the Head Investigator, however, he will be notified that you were stalking him.


It's also possible (though less likely) that Kira had some method of checking if someone is a traitor, which the claim would've baited out quickly.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 02 2012 23:17 GMT
#818
I'm going to have to go with L and Hiro on this one. I haven't liked MrZentor's play much all game, and he currently looks like he is flailing around aimlessly for a suspect in desperation. From Ghost, to Risen, to who knows who next. He's also flip-flopped entirely on whether or not scum knew that s&b was a traitor when it might serve his argument. If he isn't lynchable yet, what will it take to do so?

##vote MrZentor
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 03 2012 22:04 GMT
#866
Partially just going with my gut after reading filters, partially I don't see the scumteam somehow failing to kill the claimed cop up to this point, partially "he's red, kill him" seems way to damn easy for this game, partially this is just a way more interesting option.

##vote HiroPro
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 05 2012 01:45 GMT
#921
Sorry for not being present most of today, overtime's a bitch.

Anyway, I'm just a VT. I know my vote on Hiro was really really dumb, but Hiro's laziness-vibe at that point really put me off, and Risen looked like he had been stepping it up. His play earlier in the game was utterly abysmal (the palmar thing was ludicrous), but comparing his okay to Hiro's it really looked like Hiro was trying to hide a lot more. If you lynch me for that I understand, but, um, please don't.

I'm going to vote for ghost. This is mainly coming from reading Risen's filter after he was lynched. He almost never mentions ghost at all, which seems weird as he brings up literally everybody else. The only occurrence is a soft defense of ghost based on that he voted s&b... but this never really made sense since he never came down on whether or not s&b had successfully contacted scum. He also says before he gets lynched that a ghost/Hiro team looks likely to him -- a flip-flop of his earlier position. It's pretty easy to see that as deflecting suspicion off a scumbuddy, especially after he lightly defended him earlier.

##vote ghost_403
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 06 2012 02:12 GMT
#970
I realize it's a bit too late to save myself, but I implore everyone that's around to take a good hard look at marvellosity's filter. He's been skirting around the edges all game long without solid commitments or thorough cases. I think he's far more likely to be Kira than any if the other survivors. think about it long and hard once I'm dead.

##vote marvellosity
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 06 2012 02:17 GMT
#971
Nah, I don't understand what hopeless is getting at with the framer junk, but if you look through his play all game I don't see scum. He's not scared enough.
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 06 2012 02:47 GMT
#976
whole lies with a half smile
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
September 06 2012 03:55 GMT
#996
I knew it.

GG
whole lies with a half smile
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