• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:58
CEST 21:58
KST 04:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?32Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris46Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Speculation of future Wardii series Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Monday Nights Weeklies
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Starcraft at lower levels TvP BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Victoria gamers
Tourneys
Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 754 users

[D] Map features that favor a specific race

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-27 23:15:57
June 27 2012 16:17 GMT
#1
Hello guys, lately I have been thinking about something awesome, a data base that would include all the known map features to favor, or disfavor a specific race. This would help alot when thinking of a map layout and trying to see if it would be balanced.

For example, when you are making a new map you could just pick an even number of features that favor each race and use them in your map.

I think if everyone donates their knowledge to this, it can be very helpful to new and experienced map makers alike. I will start with my knowledge as a master Protoss player, but I am sure there are many more features I forgot to mention, if everyone helps out this could become a great resource!

Map features that favor a certain race specific to a matchup:

PvT:
- Large rush distance (warp ins remove reinforcements travel time and its easier defending pushes)

TvP:
- Close air distance (easier drops)
- Lots of air space (drops are easier, and can escape easier when attacked)

TvZ:
- Siegeable bases from different height
- Ledges (for reaper harass and tank dropped there to be safe and provide cover for other units)

ZvP:
- Open areas (to get easier surrounds)
- Empty air / unpathable high ground area near bases (for brood lords placing)

PvZ:
- Natural with small entrance (Easier to block in time for early pool and to defend overall)

General map feature per race:

Protoss favored:
- Chokes (unless going zealot-archon style, which is rare)
- 3rd tucked by main (easier to defend with blink stalkers)
- Excessive change in height (both the colossus and the stalker using blink can pass through different levels of height easily)
- Inbase expo (Terran can build a 2ns CC in his base regardless, and Zerg has the easiest time expanding, so Protoss gains the most out of a safe expansion that is easy to defend)

Terran favored:
- Large main (easier drop off and more space for buildings)
- Main with LOS blockers (easier drop off)
- Short rush distance (Terran has slow units that need to travel to get to the enemy base)
- Island bases (Terran has the easiest time taking an island expansion)
- Expansion path that goes toward the opponent
- Gold bases (Terran normally has less workers then Protoss and Zerg, so gold bases are more beneficial to it)

Zerg favored:
- Many expansions (Zerg is the strongest race lategame - debatable)
- Close by 3rd (not necessarily an easy one, just close since getting creep there is easier)
- Xel'naga towers (Zerg most of the time has map control and so has control over the towers, also Zerg benefits the most from the towers, cause it is a reactionary race)
- Expansion path that goes away from the opponent
- LOS usage (easier to ambush and counterattack)
- Air space behind mains and unpathable high grounds (for easy overlords placement)

If you got a reasonable feature that favors a race say it here and if supported I will include it in the OP, or if you think one of the features I included is wrong in some way, tell me and I will change it.

I hope this will help map makers to make better and more balanced maps gl hf's!
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
June 27 2012 16:23 GMT
#2
It depends alot on the matchup. In TvZ, for example, Terran loves choke points and abuses them. In TvP, Protoss loves choke points and abuses them.
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
June 27 2012 16:32 GMT
#3
On June 28 2012 01:23 vaderseven wrote:
It depends alot on the matchup. In TvZ, for example, Terran loves choke points and abuses them. In TvP, Protoss loves choke points and abuses them.

But I am talking in general, while there are certain matchup specifics, there are also generally favorable features, for example chokes are good for TvZ right? I already included that Zerg likes open areas, and chokes are good for PvT, already said Protoss is good with chokes . From the general favoritism you can conduct the specific favoritism. I can maybe add later on matchup specifics, if the general ones are not enough. but for now I want to get a good data base of the map features that generally favor a certain race.
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2404 Posts
June 27 2012 16:53 GMT
#4
I think you have to approach this with specific MUs if you want to actually get a good sense of what races like. Here's some of my thoughts on openness and expansions.

PvZ
Protoss - chokes, close thirds, limited airspace
Zerg - open space, open expansions, airspace for BLs, expanding away from the opponent

TvZ
Terran - cliffs/ramps for tank setups, easily dropped expansions (meaning the opponents base is close by air), aggressive expos
Zerg - wide open expansions, few cliffs/siege positions at expansions, expos away from opponent
*chokes are a lot more variable in this match up because sometimes bio terran doesn't like chokes (infestors, banelings)

PvT
Protoss - chokes, aggressive or defensive expanding
Terran - open space, aggressive expanding (most cases)
Mapmaker & TLMC Judge. Amygdala, Frostline, Crimson Court, and Korhal Compound (WoL).
Guardian85
Profile Joined May 2012
162 Posts
June 27 2012 16:53 GMT
#5
Good initiative, but i think its just as important to list all the disbenefits too, not only the race spesific benefits.

Like putting unpathable rocks NEAR main base HQ, and NEAR other expansion HQ placements, disbenefit especially for zerg.

Or like None pathable cliff edges, disbenefits Terran and protoss.
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
June 27 2012 17:36 GMT
#6
monitor: breaking the data into matchups takes more time, so I was going to go away from it, but I see it is the best way so I will turn it into per matchup.

Guardian: what do you mean by rocks near main base? near expo's I guess you mean blocking them?
Guardian85
Profile Joined May 2012
162 Posts
June 27 2012 17:51 GMT
#7
The rocks was about building availability, in the way that zerg already has restricted buildspace on creep, one rock in the "right / wrong " spot, could really make it difficult to build buildings, if the rock is in a position where it hits the build grid from multiple angles.
Its not a serious setback, and would be annoying to most races, but still can be used to make slight changes.
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
June 27 2012 20:41 GMT
#8
People have said this since times and used this to theorycraft about map balance before the actual stats were in and seldom did the actual stats coincide with people's perception of map balance. Does anyone remember crossfire? People were screaming left and right that it would be impossible for ZvP, it turned out to be an impossible PvZ map. When Terminus was introduced, everyone was like 'Ohhh, this map is so large, good for ZvT', it turned out to be a TvZ favoured map.

Ultimately, it's far too complicated to judge a map balance by that and I don't even know if those things really factor in and decide map balance.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
June 27 2012 20:51 GMT
#9
Well, if there was an actual list of every feature, you could compare them all and actually see (in theory) if the map is balanced. Since every feature is included it is supposed to work, only problem is to actually get every feature.

To that matter, who do you think an in-base expo favors?
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
June 27 2012 20:58 GMT
#10
Don't forget overlord spots, LoS blockers , main size, drop paths, lowground pylon powering mains, reaper backdoors, airspace/mineral line relationship.

I think inbase expos favor Toss, then Terran, then Zerg, because zerg has the easiest time securing expos, then terran, then toss ; so if they are free, this zerg advantage and toss disadvantage is removed.
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
June 27 2012 21:17 GMT
#11
LoS favors Zerg right? main size i already did covered I think, what can I say about lowground pylons exactly? ledges I will add and airspace is mostly good for zerg and terran right?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 387
IndyStarCraft 142
Livibee 129
BRAT_OK 82
MindelVK 31
JuggernautJason23
ForJumy 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23938
Mini 912
EffOrt 726
Dewaltoss 121
Larva 112
sSak 43
Backho 26
Aegong 25
yabsab 18
ivOry 11
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1891
pashabiceps550
Stewie2K525
Foxcn212
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu372
Other Games
Grubby2395
FrodaN1191
Mlord364
ArmadaUGS204
C9.Mang0127
Trikslyr71
Kaelaris2
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta65
• Reevou 5
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 30
• Pr0nogo 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21313
• WagamamaTV744
League of Legends
• Doublelift2167
Counter-Strike
• imaqtpie964
• Shiphtur198
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 2m
The PondCast
14h 2m
RSL Revival
14h 2m
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
Maestros of the Game
21h 2m
Classic vs TriGGeR
Reynor vs SHIN
OSC
1d 7h
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
Maestros of the Game
1d 21h
Serral vs Ryung
ByuN vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
1d 23h
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
[ Show More ]
Cosmonarchy
2 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Solar vs Bunny
Clem vs Rogue
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Maru vs Lambo
herO vs ShoWTimE
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Maestros of the Game
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.