EPTTL Mafia LVI
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Vivax
21972 Posts
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Vivax
21972 Posts
Why? I looked through VE's filter and didn't like it, then saw acrofales jumping in with this to try and defend him: However, with all the pre-game "policy lynch VE" stuff going on (it was fun, but lets not take that shit seriously), I think scum could be pushing a VE lynch based on shitty evidence like this. That self-vote stunt wasn't shitty evidence. It was probably planned in egocentrical way by a scum player. I can understand if someone placed his vote on somebody else for no apparent reason, since that will immediately force someone to defend himself (or he can try and make it look like he's lurking). I don't see how a self-vote would create a good atmoshpere for town. It might all be for shits and giggles pre-game, but ingame it just might be an exaggerated attempt to act like an overconfident townie and just causes confusion. Also, Acrofales, I find you to be scummy by finding a reason to jump out of cover and defend someone, but finding no reason to make own cases and post reads. It helps me imagine the option of you trying to cover the scumbuddy who has the role of acting as an overzealous townie. And when I say overzealous, I don't speak about the value of his posts, but of the sheer amount. ____ I didn't like BKE's post until I saw him mentioning the the lynched guy he used to justify his policy lynch discussion about being careful with newbs, that's enough for me as proof that his policy talk was in town's interest and not just some attempt to start a never ending policy discussion. I still cannot be sure of him being townie on the long term, but for now it's enough. If you asked me who I would vote for right now, then it would be either VE or acrofales. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
VE, can you enlighten me on this one? On June 30 2012 23:00 VisceraEyes wrote: BM is another story and if you guys wanna get a bandwagon going on that guy, I'm all about it. I'm on BKE until further notice, though. You are very consistent in your case against BKE. On the other hand it's a way of looking townie without having to post more information regarding other players. You have been asking people THREE times for opinions regarding BKE, I gave you mine. If you can't find your three questions 'what do you think of BKE?' then I will gladly post the links to your posts. To make it short: VE, why would you support a bandwagon on BM without posting the reasons for it? | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 00:06 EchelonTee wrote: This is epicmafia level logic. AKA, not good. I think self-voting and posting lots of short, pretty contentless posts from the beginning on might be one of the safest options for scum to look townie, then he started a case against Broodking based on this: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 10:39 VisceraEyes wrote: .......I'm kinda having a hard time accepting that you don't have an agenda considering all these factors. FoS: BKE The case against BKE also started based on a weak claim. How the hell is one supposed to have an agenda when he's taling about policy? Should BKE have posted all lurkers and newbies or what did you expect him to do, VE? On July 01 2012 00:06 EchelonTee wrote: Even if you regarded VE's actions as bad, that does not make acrofales his scumbuddy. Scumbuddies often soft defend, but acrofales did an out and out defense of VE; this does not point to any significant connection between them. I took into consideration that he defended but didn't post any cases of his own. I'm not criticizing him for doing A, I'm criticizing him for doing A but not doing B like a townie would do. However, acrofales responded to my post already and justified his lack of cases with his sleep rhythm. Fine for me, I would be a jerk for not giving him that BOTD. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
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Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 00:12 EchelonTee wrote: This is the case on mKmKmK. Kenpachi rule. Wishy washy reaction towards VT claim while trying to paint it in bad light. I don't know about this game, but in one of the games I played as scum, mafia got a mail with the VT role pm they could use to fake claim VT. That might have been NoSmurfHere actually using that information in his favor immediately. Can we know if mafia got a VT role pm? | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
I don't know about casualman, but posting that by him is incredibly cocky. He deserves to be killed whether he's town or not, we don't need townies acting like that, they facilitate work for scum by not playing to win. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
I would also advise town to wonder why acrofales made his first case against the guy suspecting the person he defended just before. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 00:50 Acrofales wrote: My first case was on BM My second case was on BKE My third case is on you How hard is it to click on my filter and actually read it instead of posting drivel?! I was about to post something regarding this, but I'd prefer other townies to look at the cases you use to back yourself up since I'm tired. I've made a mistake by saying the case against me was the first one, that comes from posting this much. But I believe your cases on these people to be really weak, and am currently hoping that more notice that. Your case on BKE used the same arguments ShiaoPi used, which largely depend on the definition of noob. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 02:18 VisceraEyes wrote: What I found interesting about laya's post you just quoted was the fact that he seems okay with lynching BKE, but neglects to put a vote on him as well....plus, there's ALREADY a bandwagon on BKE, so his lynch obviously has more support....so why would he rather kill Kurumi? Now, I'm okay with both a BKE lynch AND a BM lynch at this point...but I'm about to go reread the thread. On June 30 2012 23:00 VisceraEyes wrote: BM is another story and if you guys wanna get a bandwagon going on that guy, I'm all about it. I'm on BKE until further notice, though. You were already ok with that before. Would you be so kind to answer my questions directed towards you? From this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=18#346 The case against BKE also started based on a weak claim. How the hell is one supposed to have an agenda when he's taling about policy? Should BKE have posted all lurkers and newbies or what did you expect him to do, VE? From this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=17#336 VE, why would you support a bandwagon on BM without posting the reasons for it? | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 04:52 Acrofales wrote: EBWOP: "But I prefer a BM lynch over BKE anyway." Rearranging that post got it a bit mangled Why exactly do you prefer a BM lynch over a BKE lynch? Also, I'm still waiting for VE's response to my questions, as any townie should, they are short and should be easy to answer if he was townie. Not sure if he's evading them or just afk. But he already skipped them once. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
Katina has one post. 'agrees' with a post. Nothing of her own. No need to take responsibility for the case if it fails. Lurks heavily. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
We can't call katina bandwagony with that vote. | ||
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Vivax
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Vivax
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On July 01 2012 06:40 EchelonTee wrote: Hey Adam, remember my first game? When sephirothag or whoever crucified himself for no reason? This is the MrZentor variety of it. You speak in riddles for me, who is Adam?And how is that event similar to this one? Also, could you explain me fully what the kenpachi rule is? I didn't play these games where you learned what you learned. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
Gonna repeat the unanswered questions to VE after day1, I'm not gonna stop until you spit it out, dude. I think ET proposed some interesting alternatives. The Kenpachi rule deserves some discussion imo, cause it can also be subject to mistakes/manipulation from scum knowing that it will be applied. If scum posts the role pms VT rolename, then there will be only one group of players that can answer in disbelief/discomfort to that: Blues. Using the kenpachi rule is a double edged-sword with a much sharper edge on the side designed to kill townies. In regards of this specific case about mKmK: I fear lynching him for the possibility that he's just a blue role trying to keep his head low. That said, I think ET should not jump on him so easily based on a policy formed through previous games. Mandalor caught my eye now. His posting style rings scum to me. Tell me more, friend. ##Vote Mandalor | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
1. The scum claim you adressed. I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment. Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all. I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie. 2. His low activity after that post I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role. That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him. 3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim. A blue role could react like that, too. ___________________________________________ I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him. Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 21:46 Mandalor wrote: Can someone tell me what the kenpachi rule is exactly? Must've come up after my mafia activity. On July 01 2012 00:12 EchelonTee wrote: This is the case on mKmKmK. Kenpachi rule. Wishy washy reaction towards VT claim while trying to paint it in bad light. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
Since mK started by suspecting VE, I guess he might have been trying to cover BKE with it while not explicitly saying that BKE might be town. | ||
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Vivax
21972 Posts
On July 01 2012 23:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Now, this is the ONLY question you've asked me Viv (that I can see), and you've TWICE now accused me of ignoring questions...which is funny because I answer the question in my filter BEFORE you ask it. So I guess the question becomes: instead of accuse me of "evading your questions" or whatever, why didn't you just look in my filter for the answers you sought? On July 01 2012 00:29 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2012 10:39 VisceraEyes wrote: .......I'm kinda having a hard time accepting that you don't have an agenda considering all these factors. FoS: BKE The case against BKE also started based on a weak claim. How the hell is one supposed to have an agenda when he's taling about policy? Should BKE have posted all lurkers and newbies or what did you expect him to do, VE? My other question concerns your reasons for suspecting BKE. Regarding BillMurray: Your reason for suspecting him is that you think that he tried to start a bandwagon on you. He called you out cause of your selfvote, and so did I. You never defended yourself for your weird self-vote, others defended you instead, like acrofales with this lolpost: On June 30 2012 17:53 Acrofales wrote: I disagree. A selfvote at this point is completely null: it's the start of D1 when votes mean nothing, and who the hell knows why VE does what he does anyway? However, with all the pre-game "policy lynch VE" stuff going on (it was fun, but lets not take that shit seriously), I think scum could be pushing a VE lynch based on shitty evidence like this. ##vote BillMurray Doesn't look like acrofales has any interest whatsoever in even considering a scum VE, and his next post: On June 30 2012 19:16 Acrofales wrote: Lol. Nice OMGUS. So let me follow your thought process. 1. VE is scum because he voted for himself, which only scum would do to look townie. 2. I call the reason dumb (which I guess could conceivably be seen as a defense of VE, but was more an attack on you. I am still pretty null on VE). 3. Instead of backing up your reason for voting VE with some actual evidence, you OMGUS and conclude that VE and I must be scum together. Do I really need to point out the multiple logic fails in here? Here acrofales says that 1. he doesn't believe that selfvote to be scummy. 2. doesn't want to look like he's defending VE and emphasizes that he doesn't have an opinion regarding him. 3. Goes so far to say that the self-vote can't be used as evidence for anything and that BM's case is OMGUS. Then VE doesn't explain the self-vote and tries to discredit BM with this: On June 30 2012 19:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Acrofales, I suggest you leave BM to his insanities. I'm gonna look for scum instead of try and reason with him. Then BM answered with this: On June 30 2012 19:32 Bill Murray wrote: Acrofales, it's not OMGUS when I have reasoning You have chainsawed You have also set up a chance for a weak ass switch to the BW on BKExe scummy as fuck ##unvote ##vote acro What's going on atm?A BKE bandwagon. I didn't like acrofales and VE after this. | ||
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