EPTBasically, what I'm asking is: After a 1 gate FE, how do you transition?
Here are just a few replays of me getting owned by terrans
+ Show Spoiler +
[H] PvT Dealing with Bomber-style 5rax pressure
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
Basically, what I'm asking is: After a 1 gate FE, how do you transition? Here are just a few replays of me getting owned by terrans + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
After watching both games, I also think you need to re-evaluate your philosophy and decision-making around Warp Gates. You are holding back on warping in until you need units, which is okay, but your map awareness and choice of unit warp-ins is killing you. Almost every time an attack was coming and you could see it (which wasn't a very common occurrence, unfortunately), you warped in... Zealots. Zealots are VERY good with +2 Armor and Charge, but neither of those were the case. You had actually ZERO Sentries in the second game, which is asking to lose. Here's what I propose: 1. Watch your minimap/Observers like a hawk. This is something I struggle with with my Hellions in TvZ. Have it hotkeyed so you can bounce to their viewpoints at a moment's notice. As soon as that big blob begins to move out on the minimap, check to see how much is going, what sort of Marine/Marauder ratio is it, etc. Then you have to warp in IMMEDIATELY, and it should probably be a mixed round of Sentries + something else (likely Stalker). You might have time for another warp-in before the attack hits, and that one can be Zealots if you have 6 or more Sentries with more than 1 Forcefield apiece. 2. Choose Sentries and Stalkers if you're going for an eco build. You may EVENTUALLY want Zealot/Archon, but before the upgrades begin to kick it, it just can't deal with stimmed bio (especially with Concussive Shell). Don't be so impatient that you forget that Stalkers can kite unstimmed Marines FOREVER, and will reach over the Forcefields that you use to block out the Terran. 3. When the engagements begin, your goal is to have some sort of terrain feature that you can use to split the army. Ramp chokes are great. Practice timing the forcefields so you can get 1/3 to 1/2 of his army split off. If he's worrying about loading up and dropping behind the forcefields, he's not healing his units. In closing, your build seems fine, it just needs a bit more systematic and well-thought-out approach to the usage of warpgates and how you arrive at an army composition. | ||
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Zeppelin535
Canada262 Posts
Here's the notes I've taken on it, I hope they aren't too confusing. Also, do note that the 17 nexus version of the 1 gate FE is risky and optional. 14 Gate 17 Gas 17 Nexus 17 Pylon -> Scout 17 Core Probe + Zealot WG+Stalker 2 More Gates + 2nd Gas Shortly After Nexus Finish or @ ~30% on WG 1 More Stalker->Sentry @WG Finish -> Robo+3rd Gas 4th Gas @ 3rd Gas Finish Obs -> Forge+Robo Bay 2nd Obs +1 Armor Colossus After 2nd Colossus Queue'd -> 2 More Gates +1 Attack & Twilight 2 More Gates Stop at 2 Colossus Charge+Templar Storm Third Base +2 Armor & 2nd Forge Blink Later Specifically regarding the defense of the 2 medivac push, you should have all your stalkers in your main for drops (You want to make ~7 total), and with good forcefields you can still easily hold the front with your 1 colossus+zlots+sentrys. Against 5 5rax play you may want to go up to 5 gates a bit sooner, perhaps right when you start your first colossus. Here's a thread on Parting's 13g/17nexus specifically: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341631 Also, as a nice alternative to the long macro game, you can skip the twilight tech, add 3 gates instead, chrono your colossus+upgrades and do a 6 gate 3 colossus push with +1+1, similar to what Squirtle was doing at IPL. Although, I don't know if that's the best idea vs the heavy 2 base play of the 5 rax MMM. But just something to keep in mind vs other styles. | ||
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Fossa
United States67 Posts
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CookieMonsta02
United States37 Posts
On June 03 2012 23:44 Mavvie wrote: [/spoiler]Hello TL, I've just recently switched to protoss and have had trouble dealing with terrans who do a 1rax FE into 5rax 2 medivac pressure around 9:30. I'll do a 1gate expo, make probes and pylons decently, but I don't know which tech path to pursue. Whenever I go for colossus tech, I die to the push. Same when teching to storm. I also know that MMM destroys gateway armies... All good advice posted above. As already mentioned, there was a game where you didnt even have sentries. G shield's + FF's are just AMAZING vs MMM. Also vs heavy bio, zealots with sexy legs and upgraded armor are great. They shred bio units and make a great meat shield for colossus or archons or whatever your chosen tech is. Basically, what I'm asking is: After a 1 gate FE, how do you transition? I personally love chargelot/archon for the midgame because you can storm half his army to ash and then morph. It's also much harder for T's to counter as opposed to colossi (they always have starport with reactor = double viking) because ghosts are so expensive. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On June 05 2012 05:29 CookieMonsta02 wrote: All good advice posted above. As already mentioned, there was a game where you didnt even have sentries. G shield's + FF's are just AMAZING vs MMM. Also vs heavy bio, zealots with sexy legs and upgraded armor are great. They shred bio units and make a great meat shield for colossus or archons or whatever your chosen tech is. I personally love chargelot/archon for the midgame because you can storm half his army to ash and then morph. It's also much harder for T's to counter as opposed to colossi (they always have starport with reactor = double viking) because ghosts are so expensive. Something I've been doing recently is getting double starport no matter what because like against Infestors, a lot of Medivacs is really good at healing AoE, and even better for aggressive play, since it will keep the energy low and allow the Terran's units to constantly stim and get out of forcefields really easily while still being healed. I want to refine it more before I post anything else about it, though. Just watch out for a lot of Marine/Medivac against Chargelot/Archon. The counter is probably to just get a ton of gateway units with upgrades, especially stalkers. Stalkers are underrated against small numbers of Bio IMO. They snowball extremely easily if you get one or two good engagements compared to T3 in my experience. I know this has been a bit off topic and not much help, but I think it's relevant, though obscure. Edit: Chargelot/Archon is definitely great against heavy heavy bio play without many Medivacs though, although he will be able to get Ghosts more easily due to his higher barracks count, and likely high gas count due to the lack of tech. | ||
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etherealfall
Australia476 Posts
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