Masters Zerg.

I'm looking for decent builds to play against this. I usually open

16 hatch
17 pool
4 queens
40 Gas x4.

Then usually try to make an all in push with roach/ling/bane/ infestor @ 10min.
The problem is on certain maps with high ground protecting the natural, tanks can easily shell away at you without being touched.

So the question im asking is. What are your general timings for taking your 3rd, droning/making units and pushing or expanding again. In addition just your metagame thinking vs T.

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

April 26 2012 09:56 GMT

A lot of zergs have been econ busting me, or 5 roach pressure, or the biggest I face when I gasless FE is roach bane timing.

Cut the infestor, and the ling, and hit a minute or two earlier with just roach bane, and it isn't even completely all in. If you do proper damage, you can get out of it in a solid transition.

Masters T as well.

Syntaxs

Germany57 Posts

April 26 2012 10:04 GMT

I don't have a specific timing on the third, but I just take it when I think I can afford it, depends on scouting information and what the Terran did. If he went for hellions and I wasn't able to get rid of them I may wait for Roaches, if I got rid of them I take it. Most of the time I also play gasless until 44 Drones then going into "army only production".
Most of the time Terrans push me while my third is coming up and I intercept them in the middle of the map, while they are unsieged.

I am only a platinum player atm due to the fact that my ZvP sucks ass...(Didn't play for about 3 seasons, was Masters in S2)
With good enough Macro (which you guess have, even better than mine cause I get supplyblocked too often) you will be able to hold the Terranpush while your third is comming up, leading to a huge advantage.

Plague1503

Croatia466 Posts

April 26 2012 10:18 GMT

Isn't making Roaches and Banes AND Infestors a bit too much for only 2 base? As Jeffrey said, if you insist on going for a 2base allin, cut the Infestors.

jayaiwhy

Australia88 Posts

April 26 2012 10:19 GMT

I usually get mine around 7minutes, after I have a few roaches

jodenstone

Sweden45 Posts

April 26 2012 10:21 GMT

If you want to challenge yourself you can follow the example of gsl pros as of late and take a third @ 6 minutes, should be holdable even if they go straight double gas into hellion after expo. Of course this is tricky as you have to scout for cloak banshees and early pushes, but if you do that you are golden.

Sorry for not being more specific about the build, watch some pro zvts from this month and im sure you will find it.

aebriol

Norway2066 Posts

April 26 2012 10:22 GMT

On April 26 2012 17:52 RimJaynor wrote:
Then usually try to make an all in push with roach/ling/bane/ infestor @ 10min.
The problem is on certain maps with high ground protecting the natural, tanks can easily shell away at you without being touched.

Why don't you bring an overseer to gain high ground vision and use infested terrans vs tanks?

(wouldn't mind replay as well).

DKR

United Kingdom622 Posts

April 26 2012 11:11 GMT

I don't think you need to REACT to a 1RFE, I mean, it's just so standard... play whatever you see AFTER that. he could go 2 port Banshee, Thor Rush, MMM, Mass ghost... Just play standard, tech up, take a base when you're safe.

kryx

Germany4 Posts

April 26 2012 11:22 GMT

Seriously? Noone's taking his third at 4:30? I most certainly am. No problems with it. High diamond

Why would you prefer to go allin in that spot? Far too fragile imho

willverrecken

80 Posts

April 26 2012 11:53 GMT

#10

if you're gasless and take 4:30 3rd you will probably have trouble against hellions which are the most standard followup.

personally i open hatch gas pool so i can just make like a 5 min 3rd, skip first lings and then go 4 lings to be safe against first 2 hellions followed by some roaches which come in time for 4 hellions to stay safe.
it's usually a good idea to poke his front with roaches while droning up at home after so he can't just go greed mode to try to catch up.

Cereb

Denmark3388 Posts

April 26 2012 12:03 GMT

#11

Imo the best way to respond is being very greedy.

Small pushes don't work. I did 5 roach pressure alot and this is actually one of the builds that hold it off the best because they will make a bunker at the natural front.

You could always do all in bane roach but there is no particular reason to do this vs this builds compared to any other terran expand build so that is up to you.

When you see one rax expand you can easily take a pretty fast third (once you have an okay stream of miniral income (40-50ish supply or when your macro slips

) and double evos before lair to get those sick upgrades. Get a roach warren for the few hellions that will come after a while and then you'll also be ready if he for some bad reason decide to go mech. This way there is no way for potential banshees to cancel your third.

The only thing that you have to be ready for is a marine hellion push but you can hold that pretty easily if you dont over drone (Overdroning here is being saturated on more than the two bases).

Then you start to saturate the third once you crush the push or in case he took a fast third you can just saturate it pretty well before any push comes.

ezpz.

EndOfLineTv

United States741 Posts

April 26 2012 12:07 GMT

#12

If you see gasless expand by terran, you can be greedier, AND the time to do your all in attack should be when the terran is going for his third.

Changes. I would not make the 4th queen. 3 should be fine. You can take your third whenever you want, Tho I suggest you do around the 45 supply range.

Also, pressure: Instead of making 4-6 lings. You can opt to make 8. They will reach the terran's base right when the command center is halfway done, and you have a 10 - 15 sec window to kill the scv and freeze the production of the CC before the helions comes out to clean you up. This will by you some more time before the terran takes his 3rd.

RimJaynor

Canada145 Posts

April 26 2012 12:11 GMT

#13

On April 26 2012 21:03 Cereb wrote:
Imo the best way to respond is being very greedy.

Small pushes don't work. I did 5 roach pressure alot and this is actually one of the builds that hold it off the best because they will make a bunker at the natural front.

You could always do all in bane roach but there is no particular reason to do this vs this builds compared to any other terran expand build so that is up to you.

When you see one rax expand you can easily take a pretty fast third (once you have an okay stream of miniral income (40-50ish supply or when your macro slips

I really like this. Although does this hold against mass marine armies?