EPTBeen lurking and watching for weeks (Aperture looked like so much fun!), and finally have the time to commit to trying to play one myself.
Newbie Mini Mafia VIII
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
Been lurking and watching for weeks (Aperture looked like so much fun!), and finally have the time to commit to trying to play one myself. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 11 2012 00:35 GreYMisT wrote: You can expect the same commitment from me, but not the same roles. So you won't be getting Yugi Moto But....I AM the king of games! ##youactivatedmytrapcard | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
IT'S TIME TO DUEL! .....youshouldstillmakemethekingofgames | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
As for lurkers, hopefully we'll get everyone talking soon. Solid cases will build as long as everyone speaks. Let's not waste Day 1. Too many times I've seen people say it's not important. We can find out plenty as long as everyone posts. Please be active so we don't waste our first lynch on a bored townie. The sooner everyone posts, the sooner we can get to the real scumhunting. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
But back to topic -- we'll have plenty to pick apart as soon as everyone posts. I'm already taking notes. You should be too. Discussion is good. Idle chat is not. Keep it simple, keep it focused on scumhunting. From what I've seen, the radical plays like you've mentioned are easy ways for the Town to jump to conclusions and make a gut bandwagon lynch instead of analyzing the facts. As you newer people confirm, please post shortly after with your thoughts on these policies as well. Our lynches should at least be rational and well-informed, if nothing else. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:58 Dittert wrote: What if we all agree to a rng lynch... at least proposing someone to lynch via rng. Then we have something to take a stance on. RNG lynch is the opposite of rational and well-informed. What's the purpose of it? If you think someone looks scummy, point them out, and take a stance that way. That'll get discussion rolling a lot more easily, and it will be much more directed. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 12 2012 09:16 Dittert wrote: Not RNG lynch... RNG proposed lynch. I was trying to gauge people's reactions to things. If we RNG and hit scum, surely at least 2 people will jump up to defend that person or risk losing one of their own. If no one really cares about killing that person, they're probably town. Verrrrry WIFOM reasoning. Be careful of that. It sounds logical, but discussing motive rarely leads anywhere. What if scum decides to bus? What if someone jumps up to defend because they think RNG is silly, or they have a blue read on him? This line of reasoning leads nowhere fast, and it's best to ignore it. You're tripping my scum-o-meter pretty hard right now. Got any better suggestions? | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 12 2012 10:01 KharadBanar wrote: btw, I don't think it's that obvious to everyone that I picked you just for that. It was pretty obvious.  Welcome to the party, Hiro. I'll give you a few minutes to read through the thread, but I'm interested in your thoughts on our policy discussions and such so far. The more discussion we have the better off we are. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 12 2012 10:17 HiroPro wrote: What do you mean by this? You say that lynching lying townies scares scum? I don't follow. It means that if we allow townies to lie without getting lynched, it sets a bad premise, as it allows scum to lie since that's "the new way to seem town." If we say to lynch liars, town won't lie, and the only liars left will be scum. Copied directly from the newbie guide, because he explains it better I think: "Don't lie, because if you do lie, you'll get lynched due to a metagame policy called Lynch all Liars. The policy is put in place to try to encourage townies not to lie. If we automatically lynch everyone who lies, the hope is that the townies would no longer lie so that the only liars are mafia." I would prefer not to have to policy lynch at all, but liars and lurkers is a good place to start if we don't have any solid scumreads by the end of Day 1. So in short -- more people should post so we have more information to go on and can avoid a policy lynch. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
I mentioned policy a bunch of times last night because there wasn't really a lot to discuss at the time. My primary goal was to get a bunch of people talking, which is working. As of right now, everyone has at least something in their filter to work with, even if it's not much, and we're barely 14 hours into a 48 hour day. Good start. I read through my filter to try to see what you saw. I think you're focusing too hard on the exact wording rather than my motivation behind it. You can see I shot down the RNG mmediately and called out the WIFOM -- I was taking hard stances on the things that actually came up to take stances on. Just as I'm going to do now. I poked Dittert a little bit last night to see how he would respond, but I can't get a clear read on him *just* yet. The RNG thing was pretty nuts, but it sounded more like clueless townie than scum to me. I've got my eye on him to see how his play progresses, but not enough to vote him D1 yet. He needs to come on and form an opinion on something concrete. Last night I was also feeling KB was playing particularly scummy. Then I read his filter from Newbie VI (found here) and realized that for Day 1 it sounds almost exactly the same. I would have labelled him scum that game too D1 (he was not), so I'm going to wait until I see how much more solid his reads become first. Specifically, I would like you to answer Acrofales' question: Who do you think is scum and why? HiroPro is lurking pretty hard right now. A confirm, and a bunch of fluff. You need to be more active. I'm calling you out right now. Start posting or you're my #1 choice for a vote right now. Until HiroPro gives me something to work with though, my suspicions for now though goes to someone nobody has mentioned, vonKlaust. The case against vonKlaust: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 08:49 vonKlaust wrote: I don't really think that we're meant to have a special plan to sort out scum from townies day 1. I think what we're doing now is good. Just keep the conversation flowing, force people to take stances and pressure them to talk. About keeping people from freaking out and start killing each other, I think that's pretty much a part of the game. People make bad reads, and innocent people get lynched. Let's just try to make sure no one is lurking and go from there. The most important thing is to have a ground for analysis. On April 12 2012 08:54 vonKlaust wrote: Alright people, start typing! We know you're out there. So far only a handful of us have posted. On April 12 2012 08:56 vonKlaust wrote: Just noticed that the game had been going for 50 minutes. Lol, maybe I should be a tad more patient. His filter is full of useless junk such as this. It doesn't clutter the thread as much as KB's spam, but it's still just enough to look like you're contributing without actually saying much of anything. The bolded part is pretty damning. It's not part of the game to freak out and kill town. We're here to kill scum. On April 12 2012 09:19 vonKlaust wrote: I'm not sure I support pressure voting this early. Especially when you're so open about the fact that you're pressure voting. The game has been going for like an hour, and it's pretty natural that some people haven't posted yet. Also, stating that openly that you're voting for pressure kinda nullifies the effect, doesn't it? On April 12 2012 21:36 vonKlaust wrote: Ok, I must disappointedly admit that I feel pretty lost. Acts confused about what's going on and doesn't take a solid stance on anything. The only stance he's taken on anything is feeling like Dittert is a confused newbie rather than scum. On April 12 2012 09:47 vonKlaust wrote: What Willz wrote was pretty much what I was thinking. Again, no thought of his own added here, but simply piggy-backing into what willz has already said. He's done a really good job blending in so far. Which is exactly why I'm suspicious of him. Care to weigh in vonKlaust? Actually, I'll just ask you the same question: who do you think is scum, and why? @Xatalos -- It's too early for me to actually vote, but these are my current suspicions. When I am reasonably sure that I have a scum instead of just suspecting, I'll actually set my vote. Actually setting a vote this early tends to allow an easy bandwagon, which is something I don't want the scum to have. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
Before you latch onto me saying the word "motivation" and go all WIFOM on me, I want to clarify. My activity level and my direct statements point to me being town. The only thing pointing me toward being scum are the amount of times I've mentioned the words "policy" and "blue," which I believe I've explained as well as I can. I'd really like to end this distraction, so I posted my thoughts on the relevant discussions and my red reads so far. (Posting green reads just tends to give scum a list of targets to choose from. They should have to do a little work.) Anything else you'd like me to answer to, send it my way. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
@vonKlaust -- thanks for the response. I still want you to take some time and read through the filters to come up with some conclusions of your own. Show some evidence. Just going along with the first strong case is exactly the kind of bandwagoning you're worried about in your post. If you're still convinced I'm scum, explain why. @HiroPro -- still waiting for you to show up and contribute. I'll likely place my vote this evening, as 24 hours should be sufficient time for anyone not intentionally lurking to post something relevant. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
The problem is, a lot of filters read very fluffy so far. I want vonKlaust, Yomi, and Dittert to all post something more solid, and HiroPro to post anything at all. Directly at Yomi -- what's your reasoning behind Brood being mafia? You've posted you believe it, but haven't made a case yet. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
I'll post more after lunch. I want to hear from imallinson and more from HiroPro. Those filters are still very thin. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
Currently, yomi is my primary suspect, throwing alarm bells all over the place. His posts have been overly defensive when questioned, while not actually answering anything. On April 12 2012 12:31 yomi wrote: nothing to contribute? I am one of the only people to post something substantive, specific, and concrete. I have looked over what's been said and formed ideas. For example I think you are mafia. On April 13 2012 00:48 yomi wrote: just to clarify since apparently my posts are incomprehensible, when I say "don't like brood" I mean I think he may be mafia. Primarily I look at this, and pair it with this: On April 13 2012 01:30 yomi wrote: note arctic coming to the defense of dittert aka the most highly suspected player defending the second most highly suspected player. first big slip? not sure what to make of hiro accusing xatalos. I think the guy is kind of ridiculous but I think he (xatalos) is town. arctic/ditt/hiropro mafia 1/2/3 ? A bizarre, knee-jerk OMGUS response to a simple question. Also, still no mention of Brood. He then later answered it as such: On April 13 2012 01:42 yomi wrote: which? why vote for dittert? for the third time: I am voting for Dittert because he proposed a policy which I thought was bizarre and ill advised. More than that, I thought that proposing any policy at all was suspicious. Am I really not writing clearly because I feel like I have made one post in this thread and then explained it 5 times. More confrontation, still no information about why he mentioned Brood was on his scum radar (at least twice, three times if you include his first post in the game that he continues to say is "concrete" -- + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 11:43 yomi wrote: Hi I just got back from lifting. I can't think of a more pointless discussion than the one we are having now. It is being led by Broodking, Kharadbanar, and Dittert. I have the most confidence in willz and to a slightly lesser extent arctic. I'm not sure what we SHOULD be discussing since no investigation abilities have gone out yet, but I doubt this is it. Getting people to talk just for the sake of it is great but my fear is that this discussion will bleed into day 2 when we will have some actual information. Overall, I've felt his play so far is nonsensical, confusing, and confrontational, which is something I would expect from mafia rather than town. ##Vote: yomi That's where I'm comfortable right now. I'm interested to see his response when he gets home from class though. I also want to see more from imallinson. His play is very suspicious to me, between flip-flopping on his stance on Xalatos' case against me multiple times, his long post on Trumpetarn that doesn't actually say anything concrete, then a few hours later changing up his vote ("I think in the interest of actually getting a response seeing as none has been given yet I will change my vote to trumpet."), a general lack of firmness in his posts, then posting the vote count (again, in an attempt to seem useful while not actually posting anything), he seems like a very likely candidate as well. Do you have any other reads in addition to Trumpetarn? Dittert's logic is also making no sense to me. Every step of the way has seemed like either scum or a completely new town, but you can only ride the "I'm new" train for so long. His top 3 town choices are completely out of nowhere, and while he also voted for Yomi, the logic of how he got there boggles my mind. I could still see him being new town, but the longer this goes, the scummier it looks. vonKlaust, I still want to hear more from you as well. Your posting has been very defensive, without actually scumhunting. The only thing I saw was an OMGUS vote on HiroPro, and a lot of parroting. What are your reads now? | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
Brood -- I want two things from you. First, I want your best scum reads -- 2 or 3 will be sufficient. Second, I want you to answer for the inconsistency between: On April 13 2012 10:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: This whole post reeks of scum to me. "Why are you continuing to waste discussion": well there is no such thing as wasted discussion if it is an accusation. If he thinks you are scum he has the right to that opinion. The opinion of every town member here (except mafia) is important. "I'm not even pushing for your lynch", so the only time we are allowed to challenge you is if you are attacking us? The second paragraph is pretty bad you are flat out telling him to stop talking and that his opinion is worthless, this is very anti-town. It doesn't matter if he can't defend it others will analyze his post and make according conclusions of their own. And: On April 13 2012 11:59 BroodKingEXE wrote: @willz at the moment I dont see anything particularly damning about your other posts, but why waste time engaging dittert? If you really think he is a newbie, then he is really no threat to you. We as a town haven't come to a consensus to vote for you. I think that yomi's baseless accusations are still more damning. Your second comment here is confusing. It both says that willz isn't reading scummy and that he's wasting time engaging, while your first comment says that he's reading scummy and there's no such thing as wasted discussion. I want you to elaborate on your thoughts here, as I don't want there to be any miscommunication. Things got heated, and I want town to calm down a little bit and use reason and logic rather than flaring up and arguing. --------- As for willz, you're very obviously coming off as town to a lot of people (myself included), but looking back through your filter raises some red flags. You keep asking for people's scumreads while not posting any accusations yourself, except to point out inconsistencies in more or less everyone who isn't just lurking. You're calling for transparency while keeping your reads to yourself -- which is probably why Brood and Dittert are reading you as sounding scummy. When you post your case and your vote tomorrow, I would also like your other best reads, as you have asked of most of the rest of town. Your reasoning has been to "make sure mafia don't get defensive", which sounds reasonable, but you then call out other people: On April 13 2012 06:44 willz22912 wrote: What do you mean by this? The idea of sharing scumlists is to build a consensus among town to reach a majority to successfully lynch someone. If multiple people think someone is scummy, there is a reason, and should be shared, even if it's misguided or incorrect because it builds/causes discussion. I agree with your logic here, but the only read you've given out is imallinson, who frankly is just as easy of a pick as Dittert at this point for their usefulness, and was still quite lurky when you threw out the idea. I'm very interested in seeing who else you have in mind. ----------- Dittert, you're not getting off scot free either, as they're primarily arguing over the posts you've made. You've claimed myself, willz, and Yomi as your top scum suspects. What is your reasoning? Provide some facts to back it up. Your summary is that Yomi is throwing around baseless accusations and that's your reason for voting for him (catch 22, as you're doing much the same thing), your case on willz is that announcing yourself as town is obviously something mafia would do (please, please, PLEASE go look up what WIFOM means,) and I'll quote you for your case against me: On April 13 2012 09:23 Dittert wrote: As far as AFox, people have been discussing X's case against him to death, with no real conclusions being drawn. The conclusions that have been drawn is that the case against me was so full of holes it more resembles swiss cheese than a case. Is there more to it than that? If there is, present the facts so we can argue them. Acro was also right about your town reads -- they are morbidly interesting. I want to delve deeper -- what is the reasoning behind your town picks? KB seems to be contributing this evening, but Brood's posts are very fluffy so far so it's hard to get a read either way (you even said the things he said sometimes sound, and I quote, "stupid"), and iamallinson is a terrible choice -- please read his filter and say that he's your 3rd best town read right now. Are these still your top town reads? Why or why not? ------------- In summary, discussion is great, but let's get it more focused. Arguing without any real aim except to rile each other up serves no real purpose except to confuse the town. Let's get some real answers out here so we can make some real decisions. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 13 2012 13:53 Dittert wrote: ArcticFox, do you really think I don't know what WIFOM means? That just seems... ... ... ... inconceivable. Cute. Also, irrelevant and distracting. You need content far too much to be wasting time with this. That's the kind of comment that makes people think you aren't taking the game seriously and gets you lynched. If you understand the concept of WIFOM, you'll understand why so many of your comments have reeked of it. If you're actually town, the time for playing the noob card and making jokes is over. Make a solid case with some good logic and post it. Make yourself useful. You can start by answering my post above if you need a starting point, and go from there. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
Yomi's looking even more scummy to me after that post last night. I'm even more confident in my vote with yet another post from him that says nothing. I'm still waiting for that big analysis and vote post after all the pressure he put on me yesterday to do the same. I'm glad more people are catching on to the willz filter. There's a lot of aggression and calling out of the bad logic of other people, without actually giving the town any information of his own. That's what I was getting across with my comment last night. I'm still more confident in my yomi vote than a willz vote as of right now, but both reading very heavily red, and I'm just as interested in reading willz long and informative vote post today (which should be coming in 4-5 hours) I'm still waiting on Brood and Dittert to come on and provide useful things. Specifically Dittert. I went to bed last night after calling out his utterly useless Princess Bride post when I put out an easy list of things for him to discuss -- I figured I'd wake up to at least a post of ideas, whether they were bad or not. Instead, he's disappeared. I'm hard pressed to still call him harmless at this point, but we have better targets at this moment. Trumpet and Hiro -- Step in and contribute. Hiro's posts are full of logical fallacies and parroting, with his filter only seems large because of an argument with Brood. Trumpet doesn't even have a filter to consider. Both of you -- who's your best scum read, and explain why? | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
I need to stop posting before I've had my coffee. | ||
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