|
SOPA. ACTA. other random crap.
^^these acts are supposedly trying to 'censor' material and restrict freedom of speech and expression. Well, that is what we all think anyway.
The bills proposed are much too radical and provide those in government and business too much power. With these bills they can censor a large amount of material, which is why we stopped them. But through all this controversy, it will get smaller. But not disappear.
The main issues these regulations are aiming to address are piracy and online theft. Whether you like it or not, eventually all of your favorite sites like mega upload (already taken down), pirate bay, 4shared and many others will disappear. Is this censorship? Cant you argue that you have a right to share files?
The bottom line is, well, we internet people have created a fantasy world for ourselves. For as long as I can remember, we have been sharing and receiving illegal files without any repercussions, as the internet is 'too big' for anyone to get singled out and prosecuted. This fairy tale land will not last. That is what I am trying to say.
People are catching on now, and it is only a matter of time before this material will be blocked. Because, in reality, you are stealing. You are taking money from corporations. of course it doesnt mean #$%#, of course the companies dont even notice when they are driving around in their lambo's and living it up in their penthouses. But it is stealing, whether you accept it or not is your choice.
All of this fussing and fighting about these legislations is understood, because we have been doing it for so long we feel that the internet would just not be the same without it. But it is stealing. It has to be stopped, and there is no way around it.
TLDR: WE ARE STEALING. Seriously, whether you like it or not, internet piracy will be stopped, we cant keep on stealing and whine when the government is going to do something about it
Poll: Do you agree?Burn in hell you $#!T HE4D! (584) 77% No (117) 15% Yes (57) 8% 758 total votes Your vote: Do you agree? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Burn in hell you $#!T HE4D!
|
Firstly, it will never be stopped. Secondly, the solution isn't to 'stop it', well, at least not like this. The solution is to adapt the content creation industry to the way the internet works, not blindly refuse to change traditional methods of commerce. Thirdly, I voted for the third option because >:D.
Also, an interesting and highly informative read on the consequences of piracy can be found here. Basically, contrary to what most EMI leaders would have you believe, artist profits across the board are all up. Hoorah!
|
That's one possible view? It's probably not the correct view that's correct regardless of whether I accept it. Also, did you basically just come up with this from the UK TPB thread and then add a poll? Do you know anything about a distinction between making ad money off of distributing other people's shit without their consent (i.e. Megaupload, Youtube) and personal sharing (peer to peer software and dinner parties)?
|
I checked the poll before I read the post and the results made my night not even knowing whether I agreed with you or not lol
I don't know if it's technically correct to classify it as stealing, but being able to illegally download free games whenever you want, no matter how convenient it is, isn't right.
From what I understand though, SOPA/ACTA are a completely separate issue from this as they attempt to resort to radical measures in an attempt to stop the wrong actions. The SOPA/ACTA solution to solve the problem would just create another problem in it's place.
|
You have only stated what the SOPA and ACTA are meant to do.
Why not list the companies that are against it and see what they have to say about it?
|
On February 21 2012 14:28 Dr. ROCKZO wrote:
Firstly, it will never be stopped. Secondly, the solution isn't to 'stop it', well, at least not like this. The solution is to adapt the content creation industry to the way the internet works, not blindly refuse to change traditional methods of commerce. Thirdly, I voted for the third option because >:D.
I agree with this. Online piracy can't be stopped. Well I guess it theoretically could be somehow. It'll be much easier to just adapt new business models though.
|
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example.
|
I agree in a sense. But I don't think the media producers' current business model will really get them far. I seriously doubt blocking online piracy will not significantly boost sales. Wasn't it Switzerland that commissioned a study that concluded that people who would have purchased media purchase it anyway, and those who pirated the material probably simply wouldn't indulge in it if it had not been available illegally?
I think businesses should adapt and find ways to pull in income outside of album sales and DVD sales. There should be greater premium packaging, for instance, or more emphasis on touring and live shows. Film...to be completely fucking honest, Hollywood could use less garbage movies. I honestly hope to god studios scale back and release less films. There needs to be less garbage in that regard anyway.
|
On February 21 2012 14:37 ArtofRuin wrote:
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example.
Are you serious? THAT IS NOT STEALING?!?
seriously, if you had no intention of buying it, then you should not get it for free! fml, life doesnt work like that. An artist doesnt pour his/her soul into a CD, just so someone like you can listen to it for the hell of it
|
On February 21 2012 14:41 firehand101 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 14:37 ArtofRuin wrote:
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example. Are you serious? THAT IS NOT STEALING?!? seriously, if you had no intention of buying it, then you should not get it for free! fml, life doesnt work like that. An artist doesnt pour his/her soul into a CD, just so someone like you can listen to it for the hell of it
They are trying to rationalize something they know is wrong
Its a stupid circular argument, it almost reminds me of the religious.
I wouldnt pay for it, but I downloaded it for free because I wanted it!
edit:
Just to clarify, I am not particularly against pirating... but I love when people use that silly little 'no lost profit' argument. It is just silly, like when people try and classify who is a pirate and who is a thief online. Well he had the money to buy it and I didn't but I wanted it and he didn't so he is the thief and I'm a pirate! So stupid.
|
Yes, taking stuff without paying for it is wrong. However, your post is not very useful either. Comes off as a bit ranty.
That said, the MPAA can burn in hell. They're idiots.
|
No, internet piracy won't actually be stopped. The problem is the people who want it stopped are largely ignorant of how the internet works, they're doing so for mostly political reasons because their people tell them it's a hot topic.
In reality, if the portion of people with money who are trying to stop piracy made the -very- simple choice of offering a better alternative then there would be no issue. These idiots stick to tradition and they're just missing out.
Don't try and "stop piracy", just give us a better alternative to it. Netflix is a step in the right direction, but it needs to be bigger than that. Film and music should be intertwined with the internet, digital distribution should be the norm. People will still see movies in theaters if they want to, and they will.
|
On February 21 2012 14:41 firehand101 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 14:37 ArtofRuin wrote:
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example. Are you serious? THAT IS NOT STEALING?!? seriously, if you had no intention of buying it, then you should not get it for free! fml, life doesnt work like that. An artist doesnt pour his/her soul into a CD, just so someone like you can listen to it for the hell of it
And major artists don't make money from the albums. Record companies take most/if not all the money from albums. If a person downloads an album for free and decides they like the artist and buys a ticket to see the artist in concert, then the artist gets paid for the ticket sale. Putting an album on the Internet for free is a great way to market yourself and potentially get people to show up to your concerts.
|
well technically it's called copyright infringement not stealing because no material is lost. I guess that's why the fees are that much higher for online pirates than regular thieves.
|
On February 21 2012 14:43 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 14:41 firehand101 wrote:On February 21 2012 14:37 ArtofRuin wrote:
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example. Are you serious? THAT IS NOT STEALING?!? seriously, if you had no intention of buying it, then you should not get it for free! fml, life doesnt work like that. An artist doesnt pour his/her soul into a CD, just so someone like you can listen to it for the hell of it They are trying to rationalize something they know is wrong Its a stupid circular argument, it almost reminds me of the religious. I wouldnt pay for it, but I downloaded it for free because I wanted it! edit: Just to clarify, I am not particularly against pirating... but I love when people use that silly little 'no lost profit' argument. It is just silly, like when people try and classify who is a pirate and who is a thief online. Well he had the money to buy it and I didn't but I wanted it and he didn't so he is the thief and I'm a pirate! So stupid.
I am not impressed by the argument from "life doesn't work like that." The way life works is there are a lot of people with lives that aren't spectacular and if some downloaded album helps them get through shit, I don't think an artist would be upset if he had one fewer Mercedes. It's wrong to say that every download is a lost sale just as it's wrong to say no download is a lost sale, but I expect the proportion is lower than rich people would have you think. There would be more sales (not necessarily fewer downloads, as the two aren't exclusive) if everyone loosened up and adopted more modern pricing and distribution models.
|
Both sides get so driven apart into radicalism by this argument spurred on by crazy crazy legislations that are akin to nuking from orbit.
This leads to pirates defending what they do based on "internet freedom" and "rights" and "a download is not a sale lost" and the publishers and legislators making even crazier laws (or trying) and lumping pirates with legitimate users and hurting legitimate users and not focussing on providing a better user experience that could help a lot more than political lobbying and hunting down TPB/MU and witchhunting Anon.
I mean, why the hell do people buy from iTunes rather than torrent stuff or usenet or rapidshare? Because it's a good service. Why do people buy so much stuff from Steam despite non-discounted games being expensive and that it's locked in to your account and you are subject to all of Steam's rules and regs? Because it's a bloody good service.
More constructive cooperation, less mutually assured destruction would benefit everyone.
|
On February 21 2012 14:51 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 14:43 tbrown47 wrote:On February 21 2012 14:41 firehand101 wrote:On February 21 2012 14:37 ArtofRuin wrote:
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example. Are you serious? THAT IS NOT STEALING?!? seriously, if you had no intention of buying it, then you should not get it for free! fml, life doesnt work like that. An artist doesnt pour his/her soul into a CD, just so someone like you can listen to it for the hell of it They are trying to rationalize something they know is wrong Its a stupid circular argument, it almost reminds me of the religious. I wouldnt pay for it, but I downloaded it for free because I wanted it! edit: Just to clarify, I am not particularly against pirating... but I love when people use that silly little 'no lost profit' argument. It is just silly, like when people try and classify who is a pirate and who is a thief online. Well he had the money to buy it and I didn't but I wanted it and he didn't so he is the thief and I'm a pirate! So stupid. I am not impressed by the argument from "life doesn't work like that." The way life works is there are a lot of people with lives that aren't spectacular and if some downloaded album helps them get through shit, I don't think an artist would be upset if he had one fewer Mercedes. It's wrong to say that every download is a lost sale just as it's wrong to say no download is a lost sale, but I expect the proportion is lower than rich people would have you think. There would be more sales (not necessarily fewer downloads, as the two aren't exclusive) if everyone loosened up and adopted more modern pricing and distribution models.
Not sure why you quoted me. I agree; I just think it is silly when people try to rationalize pirating as a good/just thing.
|
On February 21 2012 14:41 firehand101 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 14:37 ArtofRuin wrote:
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example. Are you serious? THAT IS NOT STEALING?!? seriously, if you had no intention of buying it, then you should not get it for free! fml, life doesnt work like that. An artist doesnt pour his/her soul into a CD, just so someone like you can listen to it for the hell of it
Pour his/her soul into a CD? Maybe I'd buy more CD's if that were the case. It's rare for me to buy a CD because there are 1 or 2 good songs on it and the rest is garbage, or filler. I don't own itunes, but often my roommate and I will share expenses of good songs we like and buy them and share the data with eachother. If I really respect a band I will buy their CD. The same goes for video games. I may try a lot of games that I didn't buy, but if they're good I will buy them.
For example, look at that youtube video of a cover of "Somebody that I used to know" by that one band. They have made a ton of money off it, because they were creative and unique. People wanted to support that band and thus bought the song. We're entering a period of time where information and data is essentially free and exists outside the boundaries of conventional capitalism. Either the market has to change to adapt, or it will get crushed. I'm perfectly content watching commercials and watching streaming TV shows that I like. I do that often for John Stewart and Stephen Colbert. I have cable TV, but the quality on Blu-ray and such is much better than PVR'ing it so I like to download it. Maybe if the quality were up to par and as easy to store on a PVR/Cable (which I pay for) I wouldn't download those shows. If a movie is good I will buy the blu-ray to add to my collection and will see it in the theater, much like if I enjoy watching a sports team I may well go to a game and pay money to see them live. Much like if I enjoy an artist, I will pay money to go watch them in concert. In fact, one might argue that there is likely an increase in ticket sales of said artist as a result of piracy. I'd be interested to see research done on that.
I don't have a lot of money to spend on entertainment. I'm a university student, and I cannot support every little show that I try to watch and find out I don't like. The business model could adapt to help people like me who like to try the waters before purchasing by making the first few episodes free of charge to get people hooked. Instead they adopt an aggressive stance on enforcing and stopping people from downloading illegally. In the end, the people who get to enjoy all these modern marvels of technology are still the rich. The internet should be a medium for every person to access and enjoy entertainment and learning oppurtunities. As it sits, it's only a matter of time before surfing the internet will cost money on a per-site basis.
The internet could be a vessel for modern education and free exchange of information. They could incorporate information and advertising hand-in-hand to help encourage such a change. Imagine a world where higher education courses are free and easy to access for all. The internet has the power to do this, even now, but by definition it would be considered piracy and would kill profits so it isn't done. The only reason entertainment piracy is such an issue is because we'd all rather be entertained than educated. What a backwards world we live in.
|
On February 21 2012 14:41 firehand101 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 14:37 ArtofRuin wrote:
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example. Are you serious? THAT IS NOT STEALING?!? seriously, if you had no intention of buying it, then you should not get it for free! fml, life doesnt work like that. An artist doesnt pour his/her soul into a CD, just so someone like you can listen to it for the hell of it
Mixing engineer, visual artist here
Please shut the fuck up about what I and the people I work with want.
I am tired of hearing this line of bullshit in every copyright related thread I go into. This is record company propaganda. NOTHING MORE.
There is possibly 1% of artists who could negatively be affected by sharing(read: exposure) of their material. These artists aren't affected anyway because they generally get marginal proceeds from their albums, with the lions share going to their label. And piracy isn't some new concept. Any breathing sack of flesh can realize that the RIAA and MPAA have been heralding the end of life as we know it since popular radio, since the 8 track, since the cassette, the VHS, CDs, DVDs, MP3s, Usenet, DC++, Kazaa, Limewire, Napster, Torrents, and currently FTP sites.
Guess what
Nothing has changed in the past 50 years. Your parents recording a popular TV show on the good ole vhs is just as illegal as it is to download a song today. The only difference is that people like you buy into this hilarious propaganda about truckers and recording engineers being terribly affected by piracy. We're not.
And James Hetfield and Richard Branson aren't being affected either. The entire goal of the lifelong campaigns of the RIAA and the MPAA seek to "keep the fear" in the people. Because without that fear they would lose about a total of 10% of their market. Which is significant in that they couldn't keep their current management salaries and stay profitable.
|
On February 21 2012 14:41 firehand101 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 14:37 ArtofRuin wrote:
If I am unwilling to pay any amount of money for an album, then when I download it for free I am not stealing. There is no lost profit. As well, The Pirate Bay is also a fantastic hub for freeware and indie bands, Katawa Shoujo (a free visual novel) being a fine example. Are you serious? THAT IS NOT STEALING?!? seriously, if you had no intention of buying it, then you should not get it for free! fml, life doesnt work like that. An artist doesnt pour his/her soul into a CD, just so someone like you can listen to it for the hell of it
The vast majority of people, from what I'm aware, at least on teamliquid, don't believe it's stealing.
By the definition of stealing: to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
or
theft: the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
Let me ask you this. Is it wrong if someone in Iraq pirates a TV show they want to watch, which is not available to them otherwise? The Iraqi government doesn't care if they do it. The producers of the show can't gain any money from the pirate if they aren't selling to that market (say in this hypothetical scenario they aren't). Is there is issue here?
I don't think so.
The main argument for "it's not stealing" is that you aren't taking anything away from the company. If they aren't losing anything, then how you can you say you're stealing from them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
