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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
Worked with water boarding before, so why not give it a try? Jokes aside, I don't see internet piracy as that big of an issue because all I see are old structures (namely publishers) struggling against the flow of time. I am not saying that pirating everything is fine. But the bottom line of it is just publishers missed to adjust themselves to the invention that is called the internet and still rely on old structures that were designed for a world without it. | ||
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D u o
Canada381 Posts
On February 21 2012 19:00 Lann555 wrote: I torrent a ton of games these days. Most I play for a few hours, before concluding they suck and I just delete them. On the rare occasion I find one that is actually worth the money I gladly buy them for real. So the torrents clearly help out sales in some way. Not saying they have an overall positive effect, just saying it's not all bad. That's the way it should be though, the best product survives and the worse products die out. If you make a shit game and it gets good sales because there isn't a way to play that shit game before buying it then that is a terrible product. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
If you agree on closing pirate bay and megaupload, then you should agree on closing the entire internet too shouldn't you? Because in the end, it's not pirate bay and megaupload that made file sharing possible, it's the internet. Filesharing. That's all the internet is. Computers connected so they can share files. Even the page you are reading now is a file shared by a teamliquid server, downloaded by you. You have to attack these pirates and thieves at the core. Pirate bay and megaupload are just heads of the hydra. Chop one off and 3 new ones appear, you have to get that internet down | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
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Aic
Sweden62 Posts
It's frist at comercial copyright infirngement, ie selling copied material for profit, that it becomes a criminal act. As laws are at present, since certain froces are trying to get those parts rewritten. Since laws can be changed and actually arent static absolutes, there are other forces that are working in the other direction and trying to get copyrights redused as well, just with alot more ppl and less cash involved in their campains. alot of the dissconect in this entire debate comes from the fact that alot of people forgett the fact that laws aren't absolutes and change over time. They are supposed to reflect the present opinion of the people , at least in democracies, and not the comercial interests of certain lobbying organisations. This is why there have been so huge pubplic reactions to thise last letter soup suggestions. So take a minute and actually think of how you think the laws should work in todays modern societys. We actually have the means to have inpact on todays lawmakeing and make things change. To the better for the pubplic, not for the lobbing morganisations with the most moeny. | ||
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Lann555
Netherlands5173 Posts
On February 21 2012 19:13 Zandar wrote: A question to OP. If you agree on closing pirate bay and megaupload, then you should agree on closing the entire internet too shouldn't you? Because in the end, it's not pirate bay and megaupload that made file sharing possible, it's the internet. Filesharing. That's all the internet is. Computers connected so they can share files. Even the page you are reading now is a file shared by a teamliquid server, downloaded by you. You have to attack these pirates and thieves at the core. Pirate bay and megaupload are just heads of the hydra. Chop one off and 3 new ones appear, you have to get that internet down It's a bit like the whole drug-debate. You can keep locking up suppliers for the rest of eternity, but it will never make a difference. Someone else will take their place, because the 'problem' isn't the supply, but the demand for the stuff. As long as people want it, someone will try to make a dime by selling it. Pirated software/music is exactly the same. Back before the internet got big (and fast enough to DL games), me and my friends were burning music CD's. And even though I lived in a tiny rural village, it was childsplay to find someone who was selling illegal games for a few bucks. It will simply never stop. The only way to make it work properly is for legal systems/business models to start working around reality, instead of trying to change reality by force since that is doomed from the start. There are plenty of ways to integrate the internet into the entertainment industry for the betterment of all. You can already see some of that with artists trying to bypass labels or services such as Itunes/GoG/etcetc. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
The internet has opened the opportunity for new media enterprise that will effectively put the old bosses of the media out of business. Companies like grooveshark and pandora spring up that offer products that are very similar to the convenience that pirating those products would bring. The record companies are flipping a shit because they didn't come up with those ideas themselves and are losing all their record sales because nobody wants to buy CDs anymore. You don't pay for grooveshark or pandora. Is that piracy? Frankly I have no idea how they make money... but as long as they're in business I'm going to use them for no reason other than convenience. And if they go out of business, other companies will spring up in their place and offer exactly what they offer. And so on. As for me, I pirate a decent amount of music (although much less than I used to thanks to grooveshark), and if I like artists enough I'll buy their merchandise and see their shows. I've even sent some artists personal checks, more money then they'd make off of a record sale. That's how the music industry should be in the 21st century. Artists record and release their albums to the general public, through the internet, at extremely discounted rates. They cut out the middle men and the record companies starve. There's no reason why so many non-artists should be profiting off of someone else. Edit: I should also add that I download a few shows that I like to watch, but only out of convenience. I own the TV channels they come on, but often I won't remember when the show starts and I'll miss it. Since there's no easy way to just play the show legally over the internet on demand right after it airs, but it's on demonoid in a matter of minutes, I choose the convenient option. Someday I'll bet the producers of the shows will release them at the same time that they air to the public, on the internet, for free, with ads in the middle. But as long as they hold contracts with out-dated TV networks, it's not going to happen. IMO the current entertainment industry is stifling innovation. People just want convenient entertainment with no bullshit. And they'll get it any way they can. There's no stopping it. | ||
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Vandroy
Sweden155 Posts
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Bourneq
Sweden800 Posts
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CrY.
Japan97 Posts
there will always be ways around paying for things you want that are legal.. my room in college kept only one itunes..and well it was really one guys itunes but everyone just downloaded his like 5000 songs..so one guy had been putting songs from CDs into itunes and about 75 people now have an identical playlist. also it is very very true that it is impossible to regulate the entirety of the internet because you have networks that don't necessarily connect to the "main" internet. all this is, is just annoying! and anyone that legitely thinks private/public infrastructure that wants to "stop piracy " and "stop child porn" and has NO other agenda is just naive..but really who can possibly think that? it's not really about getting free stuff; tbh it's all about principle, and using a machette when they need a scalpel..but do you really think it's because they are idiots? that the people who wrote the bills are just stupid and "forgot" a bunch of stuff? don't you think it's infinitely more likely the people getting paid 7 figures who went to ivy leagues schools writing these left specifics out on purpose? its no conspiracy, they want more power and like others have said, are trying to use an outdated and obselete consumer sales method, so instead of embracing the future they hold back progress by adhering to methods that are inefficient ( at best) edit: grammar, english is my 3rd language | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
The scene buys 1 copy of the game and thousands or even millions of people end up playing it for free without paying anything to the publisher/author. So as long as they ban libraries (including the libraries in your university/high school/any book that is found online ) and make sharing books or video games illegal than it will actually be reasonable to classify piracy as stealing from both a moral and a logical point of view. Since that will not happen, and that would indeed be impossible to come by piracy will remain a way from people outside of top 25% first world countries to have access to information/entertainment... etc via the use of the PC and a way to try out games with no proper demo or simply to get stuff for free where the company is not able to provide a better service than the pirates ( which they should ). I would like to point out one of the many "service problem" as it is called via this comic: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones Blame me for pirating it, i dare you. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
On February 21 2012 18:33 darkscream wrote: This statement shows a fundamental lack of understanding about the internet. Whether you like it or not, internet piracy cannot possibly be stopped. Unless you invade every private network, every computer, every internet connection in the entire world - And oh yeah, even then, You'd have to analyze an incomprehensibly large amount of data coming through the pipes 24/7/365. And if you did all that, you still wouldn't be able to stop people with their own wireless mesh networks which aren't connected to the central web. People like you are why these laws come into being. When I say "people like you", I mean, "Uneducated luddites who try to regulate things they have absolutely 0 understanding of". And i'm not just talking about not understanding the internet, I'm also talking about not understanding the definition of the word "stealing". Here's a diagram in case you need some help with that: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg) Hence, instead of trying to put more people in jail (Which America especially does not need), trying to enforce legislation that can't ever feasibly be enforced, Maybe the industry needs to have massive collapse since nobody wants to buy their products anymore, at least not in their current form, current price and current method of delivery? Just wondering, what form, price, and method of delivery would pirates buy? Free? Because that's what they're getting it for right now and I don't see what you think a company could do better. Also, I hate that piracy picture. No, piracy is not theft, but it's still wrong. | ||
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Aic
Sweden62 Posts
On February 21 2012 20:30 ampson wrote: Just wondering, what form, price, and method of delivery would pirates buy? Free? Because that's what they're getting it for right now and I don't see what you think a company could do better. Also, I hate that piracy picture. No, piracy is not theft, but it's still wrong. Actually several studies from Scandinavia and switzerland show that they already are. People that down load alot of content are generally also spending alot more mony on entertainment content than peapol who does not. So it's not like shutting down all venues of piracy would get the entertainment industry more mony, they already get most of what hoseholds have available for entertainment. Granted it might be distrubuted differently with more limited ways to obtain content. Besied there are plenty of ways to compete with free... http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070503/012939.shtml | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
It's often not the case that people don't want to buy it. They just want to instantly have it on their computer at any time they want. And if it's not on itunes or netflix or another service that provides that, piracy is the ONLY option. | ||
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Mindor
169 Posts
TV shows: It takes at least a year (if ever) for a TV show to get broadcasted on any of the channels I have and then I'm forced to watch it dubbed (which is horrible most of the time). So I have to wait another year or more for the dvd release of the original version which is 2 years after the show aired in best case scenario, when it's literally 3 clicks away right now. Just an example, I saw the umpteenth rerun of S3 of Supernatural at like 1 PM the other night (the show's in it's 7th season right now). Does it really have to take 2 years for a product from the US to arrive in Europe in the 21th century? Movies: Same goes for movies, the only thing cinemas think is worth showing are Harry Potter and Twilight and we have the dubbing problem again. You have to be a ninja to find an original language showing. Yes, I'm spoiled and I'm not waiting months after the release of a movie so I can pay for watching it. Games: Video game companies have the option to make their games account dependant, so you can basically only download a demo version and get the game if you find it interesting enough. Or go LoL style and make the whole thing free and give your customers an option to support the company by buying extra stuff. (Afaik Riot's doing pretty well.) I pirate a lot of games, but I wouldn't risk buying 90% of them because they are ridiculously expensive for how much they suck sometimes. Music: As for music, I tried for weeks to hunt down Siren Song of the Counter Culture back in '04 from Rise Against without any success, so in the end I just downloaded it. They'd become more mainstream in Europe lately, but it was 6 years too late. It's much easier with iTunes though nowadays, you get what you want in a much more convenient format than CDs. I also can't feel bad about downloading stuff of people who wreck a car worth everything I'll ever own on a weekly basis. If they ever come here to perform, I'm going to pay for seeing them, but until then I'll sleep just fine knowing they aren't starving. The artists actually starving I suppose are fine with getting more exposure even by people pirating their stuff, because chances are if the pirates like their stuff they might buy it. And since ACTA and SOPA I'm even less inclined to support any kind of record company. The only thing I'd feel bad about are e-books. Authors are way underappreciated aside from the few 'chosen ones' that earn a lot. But since I do pay for my e-book copies, I'm fine. TL;DR I don't like that pirating is a much more convenient way to gain access to stuff and companies should aim to broaden their consumer range instead of witchhunting and shutting down half of the internet for nothing. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On February 21 2012 20:08 Aterons_toss wrote: I would like to point out one of the many "service problem" as it is called via this comic: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones I have another story in this direction: My gym has the offer to lend DVDs for free for 3 days! So I was interested in a movie and took it home. I put it in my DVD player and ... after the third unskippable trailer for some other movie I thought "fu.. you!" put the DVD in my PC, ripped it and watched the movie after that without those stupid trailers! I didn't put it online or anything like that, but I was practically forced to get this movie on my PC. Why do companies still do this kind of DVD craziness? Aside from that: I remember times, when the internet was still so slow (for "normal" users) and without bittorrent, edonkey and so on. You know what "we" did? We burned movies on CD and sent them by mail to other users! We could go back to this! Do you want to filter and inspect the whole mail service too? | ||
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Bocki
Germany98 Posts
this is a warning from your government. In your last post, you used several Trademarks and Copyright protected words and products. "ThePirateBay" is a registered trademark by Piratbyran, SE "MegaUpload" is a registered trademark by MegaUpload limited Firehand (old) is a copyrighted expression by Rialto Film, Berlin (producer of Karl May Movies) "Penthouse" is a registered trademark by Penthouse limited The amount of 8000$ has been deducted from your bank account. That was a message from 2016. BTT: Sharing is NOT stealing. I can't stress this enough. Look up "stealing" and see if you find anything that applies to sharing: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stealing The Anti-ACTA video (that probably most of you saw, just google it) had the good example of the cooking course. Just extrapolate this on, for example, a piece of music. The reason that I (I'm 26 yrs old, working and have a decent/pretty good wage) am still downloading stuff, is that the content industry does not cater to my needs. I am from germany, but I want my TV Series in english. Good luck trying to find this in Germany. You can buy the DVDs (at a horrendous price and mostly 1 year after the original screening) or you can make a contract similar to HULU (the services in germany are called differend, but its the same idea). Only that these services dont offer all the series that I am watching. And often, only newer episodes are in dual-language, the older stuff is only in german (Simpsons for example). It's the same with Movies. There are some services in germany that do online streaming, but the material is as well at least 1 year old and again, mostly in german only. A good example of that problem is this "The Oatmeal" comic: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones Music is slightly different. Buying a song on itunes cashes in at about 1$ a song... WTF! If you take a metal album with 15 songs, thats more than buying the album as a disc in a fuckin store! Digital market costs are a joke comparing to pressing, disigning, shipping and all the stuff that retail has to do with it (storage and so on). It is simply unreasonable to demand 1$ for a song that is purely digital. Also, dont think that the artists are losing a hell lot of money. Look at this article to see how the money from a CD purchase is distributed: http://www.theroot.com/views/how-much-do-you-musicians-really-make A band or singer makes shit from CD sells. If you did not look at the article: For every 1000$ from CD sells, the average musician makes 23,40$. CDs are only "promotion" for a band. The way they make money is concerts. I go on several concerts a month (I would say in gross, about 30/40 concerts a year, plus 1/2 festivals). The last CD I bought (from a popular act I mean, I buy lots of local-band-CD-stuff from concerts) was Metallica - Death Magnetic... and I was disappointed. Not by the songs (they are pretty good) but by the quality of the songs. Just google "metallica death magnetic bad producing" and you will find the reason why. In summary: Don't try to persecute people that share. You will almost always only get the "innocent" ones (because the real criminals that earn money by pirating music and movies are too good for the police anyways) like kids that download a few songs a year. Just think about why people are pirating music and movies and so on. It's not because they say "FUCK YOU ARTIST! I WONT BUY YOUR CRAP BUT DOWNLOAD IT SO YOU STARVE TO DEATH!". It's because the content mafia is trying to hold on to "the good old days" (which they hated in the beginning by the way). Every media-revolution has it's biggest opposers in the content industry. Inform yourself. Google around for the ramblings that took place when the VCR got out, the Cassette recorder, the CD burner aaand so on. This is just the next struggle that they are trying to fight and will ulitmately (just like every time before) lose. Only this time, it's more public what they try to do to fight it (SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, IPRED). Look at this TED talk about SOPA where Clay Shirky reminds us of the ways, the content mafia is trying and was trying before, to make us do what they want us to do: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/defend_our_freedom_to_share_or_why_sopa_is_a_bad_idea.html There is so much going wrong right now. Don't give up your freedom because content holders are telling you "Thats the only way. You will lose anyway. We are more powerful." Keep the fight. TL;DR: Sharing is not Stealing, don't let others tell you. Keep on fighting for your freedom. | ||
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c0rn1
Germany146 Posts
So many CD of useless junk mass music noone needs or will care of 10 years later wouldn't have to be produced anymore and would save up the resources for something good. I always have to laugh so much lately when industries are so hilariously whining about the fact that their monopoly strategies do not work anymore nowadays. Musicians have more freedom with the internet than ever before. The ones I am befriended with (I was a sound engineer for quite some time) are more than happy to have gotten off of the old ways of having to kneel and put their heads into some major labels' executive bottoms so they see their CD or LP getting produced and published. Now they just put a simple shop on their website and people can directly buy of them without any gatekeeper which wants 90% of the revenue. | ||
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Maitolasi
Finland441 Posts
The media companies are trying to hold on to a dying business model that's been obsoleted by new technology instead of trying to find new business models. They're essentially trying to sell water when it's raining. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
There are plenty of people making money off of the internet, even exclusively off the internet. As long as your service and prices are honest and fair, you will get by just fine. However if you try to play the market, you will get punished more and more because people will just not deem you worthy of receiving their money, and will get your stuff for free instead. The message here is that we get your content either way - but if YOU want to get our money, you better play nice, make quality things and actually leave an impression on people so that they will want to pay because they feel you deserve it. It effectively cancels out the effects of advertising and selling "the box". I rather like that and I'll do what I can to keep it that way. As a personal example, because the music industry at large is being a bitch AND delivering overpriced and overhyped products at the same time, I no longer feel inclined to pay for the things I listen to if they are linked to a major record label. More so than simply not wanting to pay for it, I actively want to do what I can to make them lose money, so I encourage other people to do the same whenever I can. | ||
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