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Active: 646 users

Haditha Massacre

Forum Index > General Forum
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Yuljan
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 11:25:04
January 23 2012 22:36 GMT
#1
Haditha Marine Frank Wuterich enters guilty plea

The final US Marine to face charges over the killing of unarmed Iraqi civilians in Haditha in 2005 has pleaded guilty to dereliction of duty.
Sgt Frank Wuterich was one of eight Marines charged with murder or failure to investigate the killings. but now faces just three months in jail.

The charges against six were dropped or dismissed, and one was acquitted.
Sgt Wuterich reached a plea deal to bring an end to the most notorious case against US troops from the Iraq war.

He faces a maximum of three months confinement, two-thirds forfeiture of pay and a demotion to the rank of private.

Before the plea, he faced several counts of manslaughter.

He is expected to be sentenced on Tuesday.

Sgt Wuterich's guilty plea ended an ongoing trial at Camp Pendleton, California, almost seven years after the events in question.

Prosecutors argued that on the day of the killings Sgt Wuterich lost control after seeing a friend blown apart by a bomb, before leading the soldiers under his command on a rampage.

Among the dead were women, children and elderly people, including a man in a wheelchair.

His former squad members testified during the hearings that they did not receive any incoming gunfire during nor find any weapons at the scene of the killings.

His defence said he did the best he could in the "fog of war" and that his squad truly believed they were on a search for insurgents.
Several of them said that they feared insurgents were hiding nearby and they had not done anything wrong by opening fire.

While the events in Haditha occurred in November 2005, an investigation did not begin until a local human rights activist went public with video footage of the aftermath.

A subsequent investigation by Time magazine suggested that most of the dead were shot by Marines - and in March 2006 a criminal investigation was begun.

The following month, three officers in charge of troops in Haditha were stripped of their command and reassigned.

Sgt Wuterich's trial was delayed for years by debate between the defence and prosecution - including whether or not they could show previously unseen footage from a 60 Minutes interview he gave to US network CBS in 2007.

After being dubbed "the butcher of Haditha", Sgt Wuterich said he had consented to the interview because he wanted the truth to come out after being called a "monster" and a "baby killer".

Prosecutors eventually won the right to show the entire interview.

The Haditha killings were cited as a key reason why Iraqi officials refused to give US troops immunity from their court system.

That sticking point helped contribute to the eventual pullout of US troops from Iraq at the end of 2011.


+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16690300


I know there will surely be someone who will justify this ruling but im quite appaled. How can a civilized country treat human beings that differently. Iraqi lives apparently mean nothing to the US. These men should all be in jail for life and now they walk freely (you probably get more than 3months for downloading some shitty mp3). This is terrorism at its finest. Im know horrible things happen in war and it brings out the worst in human beings but this ruling makes it look like the US goverment supports these atrocities.
Im sorry for this poor op but I havent seen a thread yet. I feel that this needs to be discussed and honestly I am curious about the reactions of american posters.


Update:
On January 25 2012 10:58 acker wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16712488

Show nested quote +
A US marine who admitted charges linked to the killing of 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians in 2005 should face no time in detention, a judge has recommended.

The decision by the judge at Camp Pendleton, California, must be approved by the commander of the Marine Corps Forces Central Command.

Sgt Frank Wuterich faced a maximum of three months after admitting dereliction of duty in a plea deal.

He was one of eight marines charged over the killings at Haditha.

The charges against six were dropped or dismissed, and one was acquitted.

Military judge Lt Col David Jones said his hands had been tied by the terms of the plea agreement. However, he said he would recommend that Wuterich's rank be reduced to private.

The judge said he had decided not to dock the marine's pay because Wuterich is divorced with sole custody of his three young children.

Prosecutors had asked that Wuterich receive the maximum sentence of three months confinement, reduction in rank and forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15686 Posts
January 23 2012 22:41 GMT
#2
Soldiers should be MORE accountable for lives they take, not less. Same goes for any job where someone is given a gun. With great power comes great responsibility. So stupid.
Xivsa
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1009 Posts
January 23 2012 22:43 GMT
#3
As Donald Rumsfeld eloquently put it, "Stuff happens."
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - Bilbo
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
January 23 2012 22:43 GMT
#4
I know there will surely be someone who will justify this ruling but im quite appaled. How can a civilized country treat human beings that differently. Iraqi lives apparently mean nothing to the US. These men should all be in jail for life and now they walk freely (you probably get more than 3months for downloading some shitty mp3). This is terrorism at its finest. Im know horrible things happen in war and it brings out the worst in human beings but this ruling makes it look like the US goverment supports these atrocities.
Im sorry for this poor op but I havent seen a thread yet. I feel that this needs to be discussed and honestly I am curious about the reactions of american posters.


The different sentence is not the result of the US placing a lower value on Iraqi lives. The lower sentence is because they are soldiers and thus they are not treated exactly the same as civilians.

I agree that a heavier sentence would be in order but to suggest that racism has anything to do with it is just ridiculous.

People were killed, why isn't that bad enough? Why do you need to make it so much worse by conjuring up false reasons? Are dead people not enough anymore?

Just deal with the facts. Argue about the facts. There is no need to pretend that racism had anything to do with this.
corpuscle
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1967 Posts
January 23 2012 22:43 GMT
#5
Why would you think Americans would feel any differently about this? The vast majority of Americans were outraged by this, and as the article you linked points out, it was a big factor in why we ended up pulling out.

The only people I've heard that were okay with what happened considered any Iraqi an enemy combatant, which is idiotic, and I somehow doubt you're gonna hear much of that around here, considering how educated most people on this forum are.
From the void I am born into wave and particle
Yuljan
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
2196 Posts
January 23 2012 22:46 GMT
#6
The ruling is quite recently thats why. If the majority of all american was outraged by this why does only 1 of them get up to 3 months and the rest walks free? The maximum sentence for abu Ghuraib was 10 years!
Jaso
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2147 Posts
January 23 2012 22:47 GMT
#7
Seriously? The fact that he's not getting AT LEAST discharged is a disgrace to respect for human life.
derp
Daniri
Profile Joined May 2007
387 Posts
January 23 2012 22:50 GMT
#8
On January 24 2012 07:43 corpuscle wrote:
Why would you think Americans would feel any differently about this? The vast majority of Americans were outraged by this, and as the article you linked points out, it was a big factor in why we ended up pulling out.

The only people I've heard that were okay with what happened considered any Iraqi an enemy combatant, which is idiotic, and I somehow doubt you're gonna hear much of that around here, considering how educated most people on this forum are.


The sticking point that's referred to is the non-immunity, not the incident.
"you guys are silly lol thats why i hate you people" berserkboar
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
January 23 2012 22:50 GMT
#9
On January 24 2012 07:43 Xivsa wrote:
As Donald Rumsfeld eloquently put it, "Stuff happens."

Great, I'll use it the next time I commit a serious crime.
Tewks44
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2032 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 22:51:52
January 23 2012 22:51 GMT
#10
I was honestly pretty shocked at the brevity of the sentence, and personally believe anyone who fired at civilians during this debacle should get at least a few years. More, obviously if the people they fired at were severely injured or killed. The problem is in war it is nearly impossible to determine which soldiers fired, and harder still to determine which shots ended up killing or wounding individuals. Regardless, three months is, in my opinion, far too brief.
"that is our ethos; free content, starcraft content, websites that work occasionally" -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
January 23 2012 23:04 GMT
#11
Why? Its right to punish them in so many ways, the most is that what they did was fucking crazy and they KILLED a bunch of people.....everyone else had charges dropped and 1 acquittal? WTF way to ignore justice AND make the US military look like a joke in one swoop.
Never Knows Best.
ChrisXIV
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Austria3553 Posts
January 23 2012 23:04 GMT
#12
As a soldier I can gun down unarmed civilians as long as I think that's a great idea...? Why did the other soldiers follow orders from a man who had clearly gone apeshit? The fuck?

The "most notorious case against US troops from the Iraq war" ends with basically 0 repercussions. This is appalling.

Also this:
On January 24 2012 07:50 gruff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2012 07:43 Xivsa wrote:
As Donald Rumsfeld eloquently put it, "Stuff happens."

Great, I'll use it the next time I commit a serious crime.
"Just stay on 1 base, make a lot of shit, keep attacking. It doesn't work? Keep attacking." -Chill
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
January 23 2012 23:08 GMT
#13
Something tells me this ruling is going to cause more problems than it's going to solve.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 23:09:36
January 23 2012 23:09 GMT
#14
Disgusting ruling. Civilians were killed for no reason and most of the perpetrators get sent free and one serves a sentence less then I would get for stealing a car.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 23:14:32
January 23 2012 23:14 GMT
#15
hardly any time spent in jail and he is still allowed to serve? I would not want to fight along side those men.
savior did nothing wrong
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
January 23 2012 23:19 GMT
#16
I don't get that I mean you get more time if you hit someone in your car and drive away, even if they lived. Really bad sentencing I don't understand what the court was thinking... I know that the taliban use whatever disgueses they can in order to kill US soldiers but I don't think that there was enough evidence to shoot all those people.
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
January 23 2012 23:23 GMT
#17
Lol OP " honestly I am curious about the reactions of american posters." What do you want them to say, 3 months is too long?

Obviously the whole thing is retarded.
Eisregen
Profile Joined September 2011
Germany967 Posts
January 23 2012 23:24 GMT
#18
Wow... =(
Such stuff makes me sad. If I would have done shit in the army, the army would have punished me hard and then the civil court also \o/
Photo-Noob@ http://www.flickr.com/photos/eisregen1983/
Notfragile
Profile Joined April 2011
Greece713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 23:30:39
January 23 2012 23:26 GMT
#19
Pathetic. DISGUSTING. Is this shit justice??

24 lives = 3 months in jail. 3,75 days per life taken.
We are talking about men, women, children, all unarmed.

Why the hell is the life of 24 an Iraqis worth less than an illegal mp3 download?
Why the hell do you put up with this obviously non-humanitarian justice system??


Edit: I just read this in the spoiler tag, about one of the houses assaulted. This is just horrifying. Monstrous. How can this so called "human" walk after 3 months??

+ Show Spoiler +
House #2—8 killed: Shot at close range and attacked with grenades

Younis Salim Khafif, 43—husband of Aida Yasin Ahmed, father.
Aida Yasin Ahmed, 41—wife of Younis Salim Khafif, killed trying to shield her youngest daughter Aisha.
Muhammad Younis Salim, 8—son.
Noor Younis Salim, 14—daughter.
Sabaa Younis Salim, 10—daughter.
Zainab Younis Salim, 5—daughter.
Aisha Younis Salim, 3—daughter.
A 1-year-old girl staying with the family.
"The art of war is of vital importance to the state" || MVP.Keen fan since the day he stole my heart with a double 2rax. http://i.imgur.com/A82cl.gif
Anytus
Profile Joined September 2010
United States258 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 23:29:54
January 23 2012 23:28 GMT
#20
Before everyone here jumps to conclusions, realize that the prosecution had very little evidence. What I believe these men did is despicable. In a perfect world, they would ABSOLUTELY go to prison for most if not all of their lives. However, there just isn't the evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they murdered or committed manslaughter. Basically no forensics were taken, no Iraquis testified, and the only other testimony came from other defendants (who clearly had a conflict of interest, lie to save themselves).

As sad and horrible this is, this is how the American justice system SHOULD work. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Murderers go free in the US; it is the price we pay for trying to not put innocent people in prison.
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