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Active: 1780 users

[G] PvT gas steal -> triple proxy gates

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
ymir233
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States8275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 18:39:48
January 15 2012 04:52 GMT
#1
I guess to follow format I'll be presumptuous enough to call this a guide. This is another build that I worked on a bit, and the inspiration was this VOD (plus watching TSL2 NonY vs IdrA live - that final game was hilarious):



The rough outline of this build is as follows (2 player maps only please, gas stealing timings + luck of the scout on 4 player maps give me a migraine just thinking about them)*:

PvT Gas Steal into Triple Proxy Gates [2 player maps only]
Send 6th probe out for the gas steal
9 pylon
9 gas steal (this takes precedence over making the 10th probe if they conflict)
10 gate
12 gas
13 core
15 pylon
100% core (17 supply) --> make in order: goon**, goon, zealot***
150 gas --> Range, send out proxy probe, cut 2 probes off gas, one after another (so by the end you only have 1 on gas)
20 pylon****
24 proxy pylon
28 stop making probes after this
Proxy gates x3; as soon as 3rd gate is down, put 2 more probes on gas for a total of 3.
Goon pump from all gateways; you can rally your initial gateway but I'd suggest hiding the goons from your proxies for obv reasons.

Remember to keep up with psi/supply; getting supply blocked at 5 goons is not a pleasant experience...From my experience the important pre-push pylons should be at 34 & 44/46 supply.

As soon as you get 6/7 goons + zealot, you should be able to push. I won't pretend to know anything about pushing early game PvT, so yeah...

*Since this build (post-gas steal) is similar to a standard non-12nex build PvT up to about 17 supply, assuming that you scout after the 10gate and not the 15pylon (like in 2 Gate Goon Range Expand), this build could probably also be used against a regular 1raxCC or 14CC on a 4-player or 3-player map if you scout the T, with an 8 pylon and sans the gas steal of course. I think this was something similar to what NonY talked about in his post-match interview in TSL2, where he said that when practicing with a partner, he found that proxy gates were incredibly strong if the T did a greedy build. If the opponent is doing some sort of timing or FD, you can probably just keep doing a regular 2gate obs build or even go 1gate tech.
**Preferably, the scouting SCV should be taken out or definitely chased away by the first goon from any clues about what your build entails.
***bunker bait woot
****can be in main or nat; I believe Stork did his 20/21 pylon at his nat; I'm no expert at reacting to pylon count, so I'm not sure how the mindgaming/scouting works out here...

-------

From what I've seen, Terrans should just go for a 1raxCC once they've been gas stolen (of course, they could put up an earlier refinery just to prevent the gas steal)...what do Ts usually do to block this type of proxy push? Get a delayed gas anyways while making more marines?

UPDATE 1: Gas cut timing is changed so that the second goon might be a bit faster.
Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful.
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
January 15 2012 06:57 GMT
#2
Honestly, even though it has never made an appearance into pro play, get a second bunker.
☺
t0ssboy
Profile Joined August 2011
Bulgaria681 Posts
January 15 2012 12:33 GMT
#3
this build is called nony gates
Courage is doing what you are afraid to do.There can be no courage if there is no fear.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8865 Posts
January 15 2012 12:55 GMT
#4
On January 15 2012 15:57 Release wrote:
Honestly, even though it has never made an appearance into pro play, get a second bunker.


why would any normal terran player build 2 bunkers if he didnt know a 4 gate dragoon push was coming
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 15:11:59
January 15 2012 15:09 GMT
#5
On January 15 2012 21:33 t0ssboy wrote:
this build is called nony gates

you mean jesus gates

Moderator。◕‿◕。
gamapg
Profile Joined January 2010
Philippines189 Posts
January 15 2012 15:31 GMT
#6
As I watched the vid, I noticed that Flash's reaction time was as quick as humanly (or robotically) possible... I doubt there would be any time for the bunker to be repaired vs the DPS of the dragoons+zealot... Although as a D/D+ terran, this would be deadly in amateur leagues just because of how small the window is to repair the bunker... you'd have to expect this push to come to survive it (placing your scvs around bunker even before the dragoons push)
RelZo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hungary397 Posts
January 15 2012 15:52 GMT
#7
I guess the only counter is having a second SCV scouting the probable proxy locations (if gas steal happened earlier on obviously) and putting down a second bunker if it sees sth. I can't see how one bunker can ever hold this, as the toss can just move in, and if there are SCVs surrounding the bunker he can pick a few off and two-shot the bunker. Four marine DPS isn't much versus this many dragoons.
a choboling
CakeOrI)eath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States327 Posts
January 15 2012 18:13 GMT
#8
I hate you so much right now.

I'm pissed off at Protoss just reading this, time to go 2fac some noobs.
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10399 Posts
January 15 2012 20:09 GMT
#9
On January 15 2012 21:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 15:57 Release wrote:
Honestly, even though it has never made an appearance into pro play, get a second bunker.


why would any normal terran player build 2 bunkers if he didnt know a 4 gate dragoon push was coming

didnt flash do it against backho or something? i remember watching a highlight video of him and it had him with 2 bunkers full of rines when backho attacked with a crap ton of stuff.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
January 15 2012 21:01 GMT
#10
On January 15 2012 21:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 15:57 Release wrote:
Honestly, even though it has never made an appearance into pro play, get a second bunker.


why would any normal terran player build 2 bunkers if he didnt know a 4 gate dragoon push was coming

a 2 gate range (like Free vs Fantasy) makes it extremely easy for dragoons to walk in and snipe SCVs, without taking significant losses.
☺
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10399 Posts
January 15 2012 21:04 GMT
#11
On January 16 2012 06:01 Release wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 21:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On January 15 2012 15:57 Release wrote:
Honestly, even though it has never made an appearance into pro play, get a second bunker.


why would any normal terran player build 2 bunkers if he didnt know a 4 gate dragoon push was coming

a 2 gate range (like Free vs Fantasy) makes it extremely easy for dragoons to walk in and snipe SCVs, without taking significant losses.

I dont think a second bunker would be built in that case. maybe an engineering bay/rax/bunker wall off would be the correct response. besides you don't want to waste minerals in building another bunker and 4 more marines...
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8865 Posts
January 15 2012 22:43 GMT
#12
^
another 300minerals just to fend off goons? which even from 2gates can be blocked with a decent simcity and scv repair/pull if you have to
besides, were assuming the terran hasnt scouted the build at all. theres no way a terran is going to blindly put up a second bunker because 1 gate range expand will just go lololol and could even triple
PhantumX
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada43 Posts
January 15 2012 22:57 GMT
#13
god i love korean broadcasters :D
Toss got swag yo
mtwow789
Profile Joined April 2011
67 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 23:00:47
January 15 2012 22:59 GMT
#14
I think this is very good build if the gas is successfully stolen.
I don't see how terran can block the 4 gate goons other than sim city and quick scouting and putting down another bunker + scv pull.

From the game between stork and flash, flash opted for academy first to have marine range upgrade. This helped stork as tanks came way late.

Probably this build is the reason why nowadays pros playing 2player map get gas as quickly as possible if they see probes coming at you.
teamamerica
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States958 Posts
January 16 2012 12:07 GMT
#15
Isn't this what Jumper did in the FAT matches vs Gsp? If I remember, the Terran killed off the gas steal with scvs and went for a 1 fact expand and won. Although I know Jumper said he didn't play his best that day, so maybe the game isn't such a good example of what works holding it off.
RIP GOMTV. RIP PROLEAGUE.
Wohmfg
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1292 Posts
January 16 2012 13:50 GMT
#16
On January 16 2012 21:07 teamamerica wrote:
Isn't this what Jumper did in the FAT matches vs Gsp? If I remember, the Terran killed off the gas steal with scvs and went for a 1 fact expand and won. Although I know Jumper said he didn't play his best that day, so maybe the game isn't such a good example of what works holding it off.


Jumper executed the whole plan poorly if I remember, he prioritised his targets very badly and left some idle goons while attacking.
BW4Life!
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
January 17 2012 02:37 GMT
#17
On January 16 2012 06:04 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 06:01 Release wrote:
On January 15 2012 21:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:
On January 15 2012 15:57 Release wrote:
Honestly, even though it has never made an appearance into pro play, get a second bunker.


why would any normal terran player build 2 bunkers if he didnt know a 4 gate dragoon push was coming

a 2 gate range (like Free vs Fantasy) makes it extremely easy for dragoons to walk in and snipe SCVs, without taking significant losses.

I dont think a second bunker would be built in that case. maybe an engineering bay/rax/bunker wall off would be the correct response. besides you don't want to waste minerals in building another bunker and 4 more marines...


MAYBE (warning: pure theorycrafting alert) terran could build 2 bunkers in the case of dragoon pressure, and if it's a 4gate, just defend, and if it's not, go for some quick 3-4fac timing rush with a few tanks, 8 marines, and a bunch of vultures.

Otherwise making that many marines would just be a waste.
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