EPTTL Mafia XLVIII
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 03 2011 23:54 prplhz wrote: I think it's #/2+1 votes needed for a lynch. Kind of, it's # / 2 + 1 rounded down :p So if we got 20 people we need 11 on someone to get a vote, with 19 we need 10 to get a vote, with 18 people alive we need 10 to get a vote, with 17 we need 9 to get a vote and so on. That's it I think. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 03 2011 17:47 Incognito wrote: This is a closed setup. All you know is the following: Total Mafia = 5 Town win condition: You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated. Mafia win condition: You win when you control majority of the voting power in the Town or when nothing can stop you from outright killing everyone. Quick question: Do we get to know the possible roles once this starts? Seems like no according to my quote but the problem I got is that I simply don't know all roles by heart because this is going to be my 4th game and I think some people might have the same problem. If you don't want to make one example-text per role describing what it does because you don't want people to know what roles there are could you link some reference where to look those things up? I guess google would work fine but I just wanted to point out that it would be a nice addition if there's not going to be the usual role explanation | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 04 2011 08:25 syllogism wrote: If it's a mafia role you can just ask in this thread I don't really plan on claiming on day1 though :p | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 04 2011 23:03 Radfield wrote: Toad, what do you think is our best strat for finding a lynch today. Where does lurker lynching rank for you? On the random voting thing matter. I got to disagree as well. There's just no advantages imo. While I don't want to talk about the odds themselves because that's not going to help us I think the most weird thing about lynching someone rnd would be the possible information gain. There's just nothing we're getting out of it. The reason day1 is weird imo is because there's not much to go by just because there wasn't a confirmed flip yet so everyones kind of a coinflip. If we end up rnd-lynching we get to the exact same situation on day2. We got someone lynched who may be mafia or town but since it was a rnd-lynch there's not really much to read out of it. So I got to disagree here On the lurker question: My past 3 games I went something like that 1. Lynch a scummy lurker 2. Lynch someone scummy 3. Lynch a lurker While 1 is our best option imo and 3 is the thing we should go for when we got nothing really. The reason behind this is that it's going to improve town quality no matter what because we tell people to talk or they run the risk of getting lynched which is the only possibility for mafia to slip in the first place. Additionaly I think if we got some lurkers mafia may try to hide in there and let's face it, worst case in lynching a lurker is going to be a dead, useles townie which is still not as bad as lynching someone active who was helping town. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 04 2011 23:18 Radfield wrote: What about no lynching? That is an option in this set-up. Where would you rank it? Worst possible option imo. a no-lynch would just make mafia get a couple of freekills while we end up being in the same position we had problems with on day1 with less townies left. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Sure if palmar would make those statements or some of the other vets that'd be crazy but I think what happened so far was nothing special. I do not like the fact that so many people are not posting (or just posting a little). If someone wants my opinion on something that happened so far shoot me a question but as mentioned I haven't seen something scummy from vets yet and that stuff comming from people who are new or kind of new is more looking like townie who are just saying what they think right now. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 05 2011 07:55 vaderseven wrote: He mentions some truth and not so good things in a mixed up manner here. No lynches make day 1 worthless and the daytime is the time that the town has power. The town is an uninformed majority (or else the game is over) and a majority controls the lynch. In his list of 3 goals for day 1 I find goal 1 to be one that is there to just discredit aggressive players, point 2 is 100% correct and the only real goal, and point 3 is a neutral fall back thing to state as any alignment. He says a no lynch isnt the end of the world but then makes it clear how we should never start of thinking it is a goal. I really think he is trying to subtlety push this option. He doesn't want to get labeled as pushing it but is trying to bring up every small detail that can be viewed as positive for such a end to the day. His 2nd goal, the one that matters the most and is the most correct, is the one that he is not doing himself. I find that to be scummy as hell. He KNOWS the reasons for needed votes and cases and yet has a RNG vote (that he declared before making was worthless via stating that RNG isn't useful). I interpreted what he said as disagreeing with me and some other people who said a no-lynch is the worst possible option for town. I think he just wants to imply that a "probably-/maybe-townielynch" is worse than a no-lynch and I just don't think so. He wants to have this option as a final save I guess, instead of lynching someone he thinks is a townie. However I think he's wrong with that one because as far as I can see a no-lynch will be ruining town-atmosphere. A no-lynch happens when there's no majority so town splits up, which does not have to be the end of the world but if there's noone telling us which side was right it will give us a 2nd day that's just the very same discussion again, with everyone who thought his choice on day1 was right thinking his choice is still right and the other way arround. If that happens town atmosphere is really screwed imo. Happened 2 games ago to me and I don't want it to happen again. I was a blue in a beginners-mini and said something along the lines "everyone please start posting, no matter if you're blue or green we need you and if you're a blue trying to hide that really gives you away". So a bunch of people came along and said I'm scum because I'm telling blues to reveal themselves and they tried to lynch me and someone else. A no-lynch happened and we had the same scenario for 3 days until I got shot on night3 by mafia. Days 1 and 2 were wasted because there was a huge fight over who of us two is actually mafia, day 3 was wasted because of a shitty decision that had nothing to do with that. Sooooo, I don't really want that to happen again. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 05 2011 08:09 Toadesstern wrote: I interpreted what he said as disagreeing with me and some other people who said a no-lynch is the worst possible option for town. I think he just wants to imply that a "probably-/maybe-townielynch" is worse than a no-lynch and I just don't think so. He wants to have this option as a final save I guess, instead of lynching someone he thinks is a townie. However I think he's wrong with that one because as far as I can see a no-lynch will be ruining town-atmosphere. A no-lynch happens when there's no majority so town splits up, which does not have to be the end of the world but if there's noone telling us which side was right it will give us a 2nd day that's just the very same discussion again, with everyone who thought his choice on day1 was right thinking his choice is still right and the other way arround. If that happens town atmosphere is really screwed imo. Happened 2 games ago to me and I don't want it to happen again. I was a blue in a beginners-mini and said something along the lines "everyone please start posting, no matter if you're blue or green we need you and if you're a blue trying to hide that really gives you away". So a bunch of people came along and said I'm scum because I'm telling blues to reveal themselves and they tried to lynch me and someone else. A no-lynch happened and we had the same scenario for 3 days until I got shot on night3 by mafia. Days 1 and 2 were wasted because there was a huge fight over who of us two is actually mafia, day 3 was wasted because of a shitty decision that had nothing to do with that. Sooooo, I don't really want that to happen again. Actually I think i was a VT that game and a blue the game before that. Not important at all but I guess I should say it nevertheless :p | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 04 2011 19:38 Palmar wrote: Sup. If we assume the hosts went with the most obvious way of balancing the game, two people out of this list are scum: Radfield Palmar Jackal sandroba syllogism redFF However I would never agree with lynching based on how we perceive the hosts balance games. They could just as well have randomized it or used some other method to balance it. What I'm more interested in is that 6/25 seems like an oddly high number of mafia for a normal setup. Do you think this is offset by lower mafia KP or multiple town power roles? In addition, how would you feel about randomly lynching on day 1. I mean completely random, we just have some kinda rng generator choose our lynch for the day. Could someone explain what you think his intentions are here? I thought this idea is terrible and there's no way palmar really is suggesting that one. So I thought maybe it's thought to be some kind of trick question? Especially because of what he said later on:+ Show Spoiler + On December 04 2011 22:21 Palmar wrote: Because I knew what your answer would be, but I was unsure how it would be formulated. Your chosen path was to to deny it decisively without trashing the idea. Which is interesting. You could've been much more careful or much more aggressive, you could have absolutely trashed the idea, or you could have carefully denied it. I'm not sure how to read it though. What made you initiate a discussion with me? Normally you just call me annoying until you figure out if I'm town or scum. I mean, I have done the same thing with sandroba, but what factors control your choice of target (me) and your change in play? He said he knew the answer and just wanted to see the kind of reaction to read if someone is bashing it, perhaps to see if someones trying to bus or if someone agrees to it? Is there something I'm not getting because again I don't get why palmar should suggest such a thing, which is the reason I think it's weird because I think he should know himself that this idea is weird. both as mafia and town. Which makes me think it got a special purpose like I mentioned, which is either a way to hunt scum (which would clear him as a green) but that's wifom again or something I'm missing right now. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
For that reason it'd probably be a lurker right now because again, so far I think those mistakes which happened (or those things I thought are mistakes) are mistakes by new players who are town for the first or second time. If you want me to give you a name I'd have to read a couple filters again but I'd obviously rather see peoples reaction before lynching them. So nothing I'd say would be for granted | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 05 2011 09:35 Erandorr wrote: Okay Radfield, this is starting to give me a bad feeling. I first noticed it when you stated that you feel like a good town atmosphere includes no arguments. You are doing a great job involving a lot of people in the conversation, but it is really, really easy to look town when there is actually not that much to comment on and scum are in no way forced to reveal information. What we have right now is a very peaceful town, but not one that is looking like it is gaining a lot of information anytime soon and you are doing very little to change that. Would you mind sharing your thoughts now, so they can be discussed and we get a better sense of your alignment at the same time? yeah thought it's weird too but and actually palmar said something along those lines as well earlier: On December 04 2011 23:09 Palmar wrote: Establishing your innocence is the first priority over anything else. If you scumhunt, you might catch scum If you establish your innocence you won't be lynched. If all townies won't be lynched, then the game has been solved. So yes, that should be syllos and everyone else's main concern. Again I'm just not agreeing with that one. I could see that one right on day 2 or 3 but on day1? Especially with so little information? Right now everything some said would have been an easy post for mafia as well. There's no real accusations and nothing. Maybe I am interpreting it wrong because I think what I quoted got 2 possibly ways of interpreting it, but I'd rather hear what they got to say about that than give them a possible answer to go by. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
##Vote Palmar | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 05 2011 10:52 prplhz wrote: People who have disappointed me with their activity so far: StimilantE: Is this guy even /in? I checked his filter and there was no /in post. Is this guy in and does he even know it? If you are, then start posting, your XLVII lurking will not go in this game. sandroba: Radfield also pointed this out. You said before we started that you wanted to try a new play style, can you tell us about this? It sounded a lot more exciting than you have shown so far. hyshes: Well it is your birthday so I suppose I'll cut you some slack. Soap: No posts. Mattchew: Joking around and being useless. If you don't know what to talk about then you probably haven't read the thread. If you have, then post here and encourage people to ask you stuff and maybe you'll get lucky. I don't know if that's helpful or not but my thoughts about hyshes are, that he's a townie right now. What people are criticizing about him right now is the fact that he voted so early without a proper case I think. Look up the last game (the big 80 player game), he did the exact same thing on day1 and was green or blue I think. So I guess he think's it's a good move to pressure someone early on to start discussion. Actually the first time that happened was even another game ago when some guy called Zanfada did the exact same thing and hyshes or someone else pointed it out as weird (because the guy did not know you're able to unvote, yeah a beginners-game). Then Zanfa went ahead and explained it's good for town to vote lurkers or people who are not contributing early on to make them talk. I figure he picked it up in that game because Zanfada was town as well. I know it's just meta but I think it's exactly the same he did last 2-/3 games. He could just do the same as a red but to me it's nothing suspicious because he does that as town as well. Just pointing it out because you vets probably don't know us new guys by now, maybe it's helpful because again, I got no reason to think he's mafia right now based of that one thing. People called it out in the last game too, I told them that's what he does and I was right as well. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Palmar could you explain that one: On December 04 2011 23:09 Palmar wrote: for me?Establishing your innocence is the first priority over anything else. If you scumhunt, you might catch scum If you establish your innocence you won't be lynched. If all townies won't be lynched, then the game has been solved. So yes, that should be syllos and everyone else's main concern. Stilled bugged me because finding out who's town day1 may sound easy because these things are easier to spot than scummy things but is it really going to happen? What I said about this is that I could easily agree on that one on day 2 or day3, however on day1 I just think there's so much stuff that could make a red look pro-town as well. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 05 2011 20:03 Palmar wrote: It isn't going to happen lol... this is assuming 100% ideal play from town. But the theory still works, if you establish your innocence, you've removed one town player from the pool of players that will potentially be lynched, and this statistically increased the chances of town lynching scum. The more town players that establish their innocence, the less chance town has of hitting town. Should be simple enough. Well the problem I got was that it just looked like telling people to post pro-town and trust those who are posting pro-town. It just strikes me that you seem to want circle of confirmed townies, which is absolutly awesome but there's just so little (confirmed) information right now that I'm not sure what to think about it. Surely you're not telling people to blindly trust someone because of his day1 actions but that's what I thought when I read that post of yours. Also is that VisceraEyes (that's VE I guess?) something like a known player? I actually thought he might be a new guy having something like his 1st, 2nd or 3rd game and therefore is just overeager in finding red but if this guy is someone as good as the rest of the vets in this game it really does look strange. | ||
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