I'm asking this question because I've got some messages from a few people about TPW maps that.... the maps lag?

I am wondering if anybody has any experience with this, is it possible for a specific map to lag? I can't imagine that a map could be something that causes lag but I don't have any knowledge about this so I can't say for sure.

Or... is the lag due to latency, cross-server, etc.

Can anybody provide any insight?

Thanks!<3

Derpmallow

United States33 Posts

October 30 2011 20:11 GMT

A specific map can be too detailed for a person's PC - too many doodads, and the like. It's something you have to keep in mind when mapping, but really it should be a rare complaint.

Superouman

France2195 Posts

October 30 2011 20:15 GMT

The maps can have heavy fps drops when the custom lightings are not done correctly, if there are many doodads with particles (especially smoke LOS blockers)

a176

Canada6688 Posts

October 30 2011 20:21 GMT

there can be issues with certain doodads and lighting. thusly, a person's video hardware capability can come into play on these maps. im not sure what specific doodads are used on tpw maps and one of them will probably come in here to answer, but they do use quite alot of doodads and that may be an issue for people will lesser computers.

monitor

United States2404 Posts

October 30 2011 21:03 GMT

Maps can definitely lag unfortunately. I know prodiG made a map that had so many doodads it was unplayable (like 3 fps). The best way to fix this is to scan around in-game and find the areas where it lags the most, then remove the graphic intense doodads (moving stuff, lights, etc.).

Archvil3

Denmark989 Posts

October 30 2011 21:19 GMT

By the defintition of "lag" meaning larger response time between user and host then no. It is commonly mistaken with FPS drops though and I know what you meant in this case. Large amounts of doodads and especially doodads with lighteffects can cause FPS drops. To my experience simple doodads like trees doesnt cause FPS drops even in large amounths. It may not be the whole map but just a certain area of a map that causes low FPS when schrolled over it.

It is an unfortunately sideeffect of map'ers becomming "too good at the aesthetics". It looks awesome but some pc's that are not powerfull enough will have lower FPS.

I would recommend TPW and other map makers to have an FPS counter running while they play their maps to find the cause and lower the doodad count in those areas.

The_Templar

your Country52797 Posts

October 30 2011 21:20 GMT

Maps with large amounts of doodads/ lighting effects can create too much information for some computers to handle, which causes lag.

prodiG

Canada2016 Posts

October 30 2011 21:27 GMT

On October 31 2011 06:03 monitor wrote:
Maps can definitely lag unfortunately. I know prodiG made a map that had so many doodads it was unplayable (like 3 fps). The best way to fix this is to scan around in-game and find the areas where it lags the most, then remove the graphic intense doodads (moving stuff, lights, etc.).

Yeah, maps can definitely lag. Doodads that add a lot of particles, polygons or light can cause lag when used too extremely. It's extremely hard to test & isolate where exactly the problems are but it can be done~

FlopTurnReaver

Switzerland1980 Posts

October 30 2011 21:40 GMT

I would also like to weight in on this and say that maps can indeed lag because of too many, respectively "wrong" doodads. There's an option in the editor where you can select all the doodads on the map and replace them with Protoss Decals, I think that'd be a good solution.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

October 30 2011 22:44 GMT

#10

its not lag since its not affecting the connection, but fog and moving glowing dodads are evil for old graphic cards and really slow down the game for you. But thats quiet obvious since it applies to every game, the more is shown the more has to be calculated etc until performance drops happen.

Its easy to test, slow down your computer until your fps drops when seeing 100 supply of lings on the screen on low. Then scroll over your empty map and if you have serius fps drops at some point remove some details. With that no one should have terrible fps drops, unless they would have screen freezes when 200/200 armys fight and those you can't help tehehe.

LunaSaint

United Kingdom620 Posts

October 30 2011 23:03 GMT

#11

On October 31 2011 06:40 FlopTurnReaver wrote:There's an option in the editor where you can select all the doodads on the map and replace them with Protoss Decals, I think that'd be a good solution.

I see what you did there.

Anyway, I imagine they're experiencing framerate issues as described. TPW tend to put in incredible amount of effort into adding detail to their maps, so it's the most likely suspect.

KillerPlague

United States1386 Posts

October 30 2011 23:42 GMT

#12

Moving at the center of Xel Naga Caverns makes me lag every time. I hate having large duels right there :/

Magnitoo

Serbia125 Posts

October 30 2011 23:58 GMT

#13

Trigger leaks can also lead to lagg. Don't do the triggering in GUI, make sure to empty out the variables with custom code if you do use GUI. Preferably do it all in Jass. (For custom maps)

As mentioned above, excessive doodads will lead to a drop in FPS for older/weaker graphics cards, which is probably the problem.

MusicalPulse

United States162 Posts

October 31 2011 00:07 GMT

#14

Yup they can! I know I used to lag when I played on the bottom left side of Kulas Ravine (where there is water), and I got big fps drops there. Had to turn off reflections.

Xeris

Iran17695 Posts

October 31 2011 00:22 GMT

#15

Ahhh okay guys, thanks for the responses !! Really appreciate this

Apom

France655 Posts

October 31 2011 00:22 GMT

#16

Massive number of polygons can cause FPS drops indeed (what has already been said as too many doodads / doodads with lots of particles).

The bad trigger setup si a potential problem as well, as was said by Magnitoo, althoguh it obviously does not apply to melee maps.

Another more stealthy cause for FPS drops is abuse of shaders. Reflections are the most common one in SC2 (as MusicalPulse experienced on Kulas Ravine), it comes from water mostly but some doodads have reflective surfaces too. Distorsion effects (hot air etc.) also fall in this category. This one is hard to tell for mappers.

chuky500

France473 Posts

October 31 2011 01:36 GMT

#17

Many mappers (even good ones) use no-pathing doodads to make cliffs undroppable and unwalkable but it slows down the map and leads to AI bugs like colossi/reapers blocked in doodads. Use the pathing layer instead. You just need to paint in red where you don't want the player to walk/drop/climb.

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

October 31 2011 19:05 GMT

#18

Which maps are you referring to?

ishboh

United States954 Posts

October 31 2011 19:11 GMT

#19

yep, my brother used to not be able to play on certain maps with his old comp because they lagged him so much that he lagged out completely

Meltage

Germany613 Posts

October 31 2011 19:15 GMT

#20

@chuky500 - just want to point out that you also place doodads at unpathable areas simply to indicate that they're unpathable. Ofc you're correct otherwise - one should use view - pathing - mesh.

We have a clue which maps and areas that might cause slow fps. Xeris, please contact us about the details, we'll look into it. We're all looking forward to the NASL semi-open! Also, it would be great to see more casting from the NASL open 1 and 2