[H] Why did I lose? Trouble in TvZ

Is there a line where you should stop being aggresive? Near the end of the game I didn't have enough marines to fill a medivac and soon after I think if I dropped i wouldn't have enough to not die. (which i didn't anyway.)

I'm having alot of trouble expanding safely, and tend to die alot to ling pressure (natural) and heavy muta play (third+). Should I safely secure the area with turrets bunkers etc before landing or should I risk it for the economic advantage?

On October 07 2011 01:30 Kui wrote:
Hi TL, lately i've been having a lot of trouble with TvZ, I'm not trying to call imba but it seems as if I can't win a real game.

I'm a high Diamond terran with above average TvP and decent TvT. TvZ is and always has been my favourite matchup due to the high speed and multitasking needed for marine tank. Historically I have always had very high APM and my multitasking is pretty good. I have very good macro but awful game sense and decision making.

I feel that my Macro has carried me from bronze to here, and I can't seem to win by just having more shit than my opponent and attacking. I always hear that macro will get you to diamond, but I don't know how to improve now. I suppose this is a general rant, but please tell me how I lost this game. I tried to aggresive but ended up losing alot to mutas (which i do alot), and I think I just had a worse econ.

My main questions: Is there a set muta timing? Should I just play a ton and learn more timings to be able to have turrets up/ample defence?

Is there a line where you should stop being aggresive? Near the end of the game I didn't have enough marines to fill a medivac and soon after I think if I dropped i wouldn't have enough to not die. (which i didn't anyway.)

I'm having alot of trouble expanding safely, and tend to die alot to ling pressure (natural) and heavy muta play (third+). Should I safely secure the area with turrets bunkers etc before landing or should I risk it for the economic advantage?


Now, the replay. http://drop.sc/41198

I'm really not sure why I lost the game, unless it was just the 22 workers the mutas killed while my marines were out of position. I did constantly harrass him and attacked, while my attacks weren't that successful. I tried to take my third somewhat successfully and in the end just died to a bunch of stuff.

Thanks, and feel free to add me for some games or advice, me or you. Eu- Terran.798

On October 07 2011 02:05 auztex wrote:

-on your first rine/hellion/medi poke, when you saw spines and a fair amount of lings, you backed off really quickly, BUT you could've elevatored into his main and done serious damage. See the thread going around about Thorzain doing this vs DRG

-to deal with his muta harass, you put 4 turrets in main min line, 3 in nat. This is borderline excessive 1-2 in each should be fine for the initial muta harass. You were curious about muta timings; generally speaking muta timing is around 9:30-10min. In your game his spire popped right at 9:30. You should make it a point to have some turrets/be aware of the threat of mutas no later than 10min unless you scout otherwise (roaches/fast infestor/etc.) Knowing the spire timing is pretty important.

The largest thing I saw that probably overall put you way behind was your first large rine/tank/hellion push at ~13:45. The whole rine/tank vs ling/bling/muta is sooooo much about positioning. You moved onto creep with your tanks unsieged and he ran in and fucked you over for it. You really need to leapfrog your tanks and scan to kill tumors/see his army positioning. In that fight you lost your entire army; in TvZ you want to at least be trading armies to remain efficient, but after than fight he still had a host of lings and mutas, and from there it took you quite some time to regain much of an army, and he was able to grab his 4th, and you were a bit too far behind to catch back up after that. On that note I'd recommend dropping your 3rd CC as you're moving out with that first rine/tank push.



Especially in the early/mid game you need to keep up the pressure to keep the zerg from powering economy. If it becomes a long macro game you'll eventually want to try and take half the map and get a nasty siege line with turrets and some pf's at good chokes, but you still want to keep up the pressure by droppings his expo's/killing creep/etc.



You used a hellion opener, which should give you map control in the early game. If you control the towers and are actively scouting the front of his base, then deciding when to float out is a judgement call. If he has spined and appears to be droning hard, it's pretty safe to go ahead and float it. If he looks to be trying some sort of pressure like roach/ling, you decide whether you feel safe or not. I would recommend sim-citying your nat with sd's/bunkers/maybe even a rax, which will help with ling control. I expand generally earlier than you (I drop CC after fac/reactor are building) so muta threat at natural is not really an issue for me. Again, use your judgement from what you scout.

I hope some of this was useful. Your macro is pretty solid. I really think it was just managing that first big engagement well that hurt you the most. Hit me up if you want to discuss or have any other questions.

Good luck and keep fighting!