*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding.
The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in:
5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile
For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K
For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis.
You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training.
Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
TL Members 2012 Goals/Progress: Feel free to post up your goals for upcoming year, season, target race, etc. I will keep them updated. + Show Spoiler +
L_Master:
Spring - Sub 5:00 mile Fall - Sub 16:30 5K Weight: Down to 140 from 155 or so I am at now 3,500+ miles
So I was going to sign up to run a marathon but it costs 60 dollars which is total bullshit. So I am just going to make my own track and run my own marathon by myself, wish me luck.
On September 21 2011 07:21 travis wrote: So I was going to sign up to run a marathon but it costs 60 dollars which is total bullshit. So I am just going to make my own track and run my own marathon by myself, wish me luck.
Almost 105 laps of the track...man I would get bored.
Yea, thats the downside of races, especially the long ones...they just cost alot. 60 dollars is actually a pretty good price for a marathon, which can easily run 90+ (which is just silly).
Best of luck though, its definitely an accomplishment and a good stimulator to do some training.
On September 21 2011 07:36 travis wrote: Not a literal track. I mean just a course, on like a road lol.
Yea, I figured that's what you meant, hence the smiley. The mental image of someone digging, leveling, installing their own track to run a marathon on it was just too good to pass up though!
I'm trying to think of how I'm going to keep running as much as I want to in the winter. I hate treadmills and need to be on soft surfaces as much as possible. I run in the snow sometimes but it's much more difficult and not really the same as running not in snow. Any ideas for me?
On September 21 2011 08:58 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm trying to think of how I'm going to keep running as much as I want to in the winter. I hate treadmills and need to be on soft surfaces as much as possible. I run in the snow sometimes but it's much more difficult and not really the same as running not in snow. Any ideas for me?
On September 21 2011 08:58 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm trying to think of how I'm going to keep running as much as I want to in the winter. I hate treadmills and need to be on soft surfaces as much as possible. I run in the snow sometimes but it's much more difficult and not really the same as running not in snow. Any ideas for me?
I love in Colorado so yea I get to deal with this lovely issue every winter. I don't much care for the treadmill either, so I try to avoid it when possible. If it's particularly bad with many inches/feet of fresh snow I usually have no choice but to suck it up and TM it. I usually do this for workouts in the winter, since their is no way I can hit desired paces if their is snow on the ground unless I go use the treadmill. For general aerobic running, pace doesn't matter much so I usually go outside.
Other than that, I deal with the snow as best as possible. Which usually means I try to pick the sunniest, most exposed routes. The one "good" thing about snow is that it kinda turns everything into a soft surface so the roads can often be run on in the interim until the snow is low enough on trails to run on.
The other thing I find useful is Screw Shoe/YakTrax for decent traction on the snow and ice. It makes a BIG difference in effort and ease of running when your not slipping so much all over the place.
I run in the snow sometimes but it's much more difficult and not really the same as running not in snow.
Hmm, sorta agree. If you have specific workouts your doing..then yea the snow will mess with that since you won't be able to run at the desired paces you want, which is relevant for race preparation even if you can run the same effort on the snow (basically the entire reason for the "live high, train low" mantra)
However, for general aerobic runs and mileage running on the snow is just as good as running on a normal gravel/trail/asphalt/concrete surface.
On September 21 2011 08:58 AirbladeOrange wrote: I'm trying to think of how I'm going to keep running as much as I want to in the winter. I hate treadmills and need to be on soft surfaces as much as possible. I run in the snow sometimes but it's much more difficult and not really the same as running not in snow. Any ideas for me?
When I say run in the snow I mean in parks and green areas where there is usually several inches at any given time in the winter. They do make running snow shoes but those are expensive and it's still a different than regular running.
f you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) you're running WAY to hard
...uh ooooh :p Although it's not really my breath that runs out, my calves/achilles tendon area get SO tight
Seriously, I've been trying to get into running for so long, considering it's the primary form of PT/group activity in the military, and I can never get into it. Running bores the hell out of me and I'd much rather throw around weights.
I love sprints/intervals, but anything longer than 1km is a drag, and anything longer than 5km is just a ridiculous prospect to me :p Is it possible to become a better running at the intermediate ranges through intervals/weights, or do you HAVE to run kms upon kms to get better at it?
(I realize it might be a dumb question, but I have to ask. If I can get better cardio through interval running, I will be a happy camper...unfortunately all military runs are with beanpoles who can breeze a 20k so it's really not my favorite environment )
On September 21 2011 10:39 Azerbaijan wrote: For anyone who wants to get into running I suggest reading this book
If you have wanted to run or just get healthier in general this book will give you a lot of motivation.
I could vouch for you on that book, it is fantastic. This started the whole webbed-shoe fad btw Same with the resurgence of barefoot running. Fantastic book ^^
...uh ooooh Although it's not really my breath that runs out, my calves/achilles tendon area get SO tight
Ah, thats different then. I have heard alot of people that have this issue; though in general I think its just a too much too soon. Play around with going a little slower, and keeping the mileage a little less. Maybe start with a 1-2K run and after a little of that extend it up towards a 4-5K affair. Should give your legs, joints, tendons a little more of a chance to ease on into it.
I should add that that only applies if your new and just easing in. If you want to get fast, your going to need plenty of faster sessions like tempos, repeats, intervals, races, etc; all of which are not "easy" runs, though they aren't necessarily brutal either (except races).
Seriously, I've been trying to get into running for so long, considering it's the primary form of PT/group activity in the military, and I can never get into it. Running bores the hell out of me and I'd much rather throw around weights.
I love sprints/intervals, but anything longer than 1km is a drag, and anything longer than 5km is just a ridiculous prospect to me Is it possible to become a better running at the intermediate ranges through intervals/weights, or do you HAVE to run kms upon kms to get better at it?
(I realize it might be a dumb question, but I have to ask. If I can get better cardio through interval running, I will be a happy camper...unfortunately all military runs are with beanpoles who can breeze a 20k so it's really not my favorite environment )
Different strokes for different strokes. I used to be majorly this way, but after months of grinding it out on the treadmill and then switching to outside I suddenly started enjoying it. As I got faster I came to absolutely love it, that sensation of effortlessly gliding along at a strong pace.
Especially since you say intervals don't keep you as bored, on option would be to make some of your runs "fartlek" runs. Basically you have a speed your cruising along at and then when your feeling it you pick some target and surge at it however hard you want. Maybe full sprint to a tree 50m away, or a strong surge to that sign a quarter mile down the road. Whatever feels "right" to you. Its a good way of changing up runs and adding some variety.
We might be thinking different things by intervals. Generally "sprints" refers to anything between probably 30m-400m that is run faster than 800m race pace, generally involving long recoveries. Intervals, in the distance running sense, tend to range from 200m-1600m and more often that not involve recovery time equal to or less than the "on" portion.
Doing sprints might help your shortest distance, a little in the 800m, possibly a smidge in the 1500m/1600m/mile, and probably not at all in anything longer. Speed just isn't the critical factor at those levels until you have really developed your endurance. Yes, a person that can run 400m all out in 54 seconds isn't going to go sub 4 in the mile, but until he is deep into the 4's his "lack" of speed isn't going to help him and additional speed probably won't do much either because he isn't running close enough to max speed to need to feel more relaxed at a high speed.
Standard middle distance or long distance intervals will help your running some, up to a point. The problem is that the gains from these intervals are usually pretty easy to max out in 2-3 months and after that point you have nowhere left to go. Continuing hard interval sessions longer than that usually results in stagnation and a feeling of "deadness/flatness" in your legs/running. If your capable of running a 6:30 mile, and then do intervals for 8-12 weeks its very possible, depending on how well you respond to hard training, that you could drop to 6:15, 6:00, or maybe even mid 5's if your a high responder. Problem is, after that you have nowhere to go. Your body adapts to the training and you can't safely add any more volume/intensity to the intervals because you have no base to support it.
The 800m is the closest to being the exception as you can train for the 800 as a power oriented 400m runner and have some success. There are elite 800m runners running 40-60 mpw (granted much of it as hard track sessions) that have good success.
You won't really be able to do much beyond the 800m and to some extent the 1500m however because you won't have the strength for it. There is a reason why its so common to see a HS kid with times like 2:05/4:40/10:45/18:30. They have the speed and power, and can get by on that at the short events, but without the long term aerobic strength and mileage base they can't get anywhere near the 2:05/4:30/9:30/15:30 they are capable of running.
Basically you need the overall mileage for a few reasons. One is to be able to handle more intervals and intense work. Without the base work the interval sessions become to long for your body because it isn't used to high levels of stress and it becomes extremely easy to get injured or overtrain. Second, without the mileage base your only really working the anaerobic side and entirely ignoring your aerobic engine. Finally, with just interval sessions you get stale because the anaerboic/VO2 max side can be whipped into shape fast and once you have maxed that its pretty much necessary to go back and do some aerobic training before returning to hard track work.
f you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) you're running WAY to hard
...uh ooooh :p Although it's not really my breath that runs out, my calves/achilles tendon area get SO tight
Seriously, I've been trying to get into running for so long, considering it's the primary form of PT/group activity in the military, and I can never get into it. Running bores the hell out of me and I'd much rather throw around weights.
I love sprints/intervals, but anything longer than 1km is a drag, and anything longer than 5km is just a ridiculous prospect to me :p Is it possible to become a better running at the intermediate ranges through intervals/weights, or do you HAVE to run kms upon kms to get better at it?
(I realize it might be a dumb question, but I have to ask. If I can get better cardio through interval running, I will be a happy camper...unfortunately all military runs are with beanpoles who can breeze a 20k so it's really not my favorite environment )
When your calves and achilles get tight, are they sore too?
Generally speaking, you can't get better at running long distances by running shorter distances. However, there is a great deal of benefit you can get from doing faster, shorter running. It's great for burning calories as well as building muscle.
On September 21 2011 11:28 Taekwon wrote: Running is my alternative cardio but I find it more difficult to feel motivated for in comparison to Taekwondo.
I manage around 40 laps around my track which is about 5 miles but I never feel the need to do more.
NOR do I want to since I'm flat footed.
Any tips for flat footed peeps? Endurance and pure persistence is all I'm using.
I'm flat-footed, no arch, and thus over-pronate a reasonable amount. Never really been an issue for me tbh. One time I had an issue with the medial malleolus/posterior tibial tendon, but PT combined with an orthotic has taken care of that for me. I've been pretty much injury free these last 6 months, despite doing some intense training and having a 70+ mpw volume.
Being flat-footed certainly doesn't stop you from running.
Generally speaking, you can't get better at running long distances by running shorter distances. However, there is a great deal of benefit you can get from doing faster, shorter running. It's great for burning calories as well as building muscle.
+1. Sprinting/Harder Intervals are great for weight loss and muscle development (sprinting is strength training tbh).
On September 21 2011 11:28 Taekwon wrote: Running is my alternative cardio but I find it more difficult to feel motivated for in comparison to Taekwondo.
I manage around 40 laps around my track which is about 5 miles but I never feel the need to do more.
NOR do I want to since I'm flat footed.
Any tips for flat footed peeps? Endurance and pure persistence is all I'm using.
Try varying up your running. Do sprints, intervals, hills, or a mix of a bunch of stuff. Run with a partner or try running at new and interesting places.
As for being flat footed, some people buy a specific shoe or insert to compensate for that. Other people swear by a minimalist shoe or just running barefoot. If you try out a minimalist shoe or barefoot running you have to build up very slowly to get accustomed.
I usually do about 3k in 10 min. High Intensity Training is also really nice, I do it Tabata style but you really feel the burn; I definitely wouldn't recommend it for beginners.
Also, what do you use to record/track results? I use Nike+ but I don't know how good it's distance measuring is.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.barefootted.com/born2run.jpg)
Same with the resurgence of barefoot running. Fantastic book ^^
