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Zerg versus Terran: Everything I know

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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1 2 3 Next All
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
September 04 2011 13:18 GMT
#1
I've been working on a new guide for Zerg versus Terran for about 2 weeks now, and it is finally done. There unfortunately are some maaaaajor image problems that I can't figure out ( imgur is acting up for me for some reason ) never the less I have posted it up on my blog.

Now this is an outer link once again, but once the image problem is dealt with it should look much better to look at. Here is the link : http://raa-media.nl/blog/starcraft2/zvt-survival-of-patient

And here is a quick excerpt out of the guide.



Infestor-Ling


[image loading]

This is the style I am most comfortable with because it does really well when you have good positioning. On top of that, it hinges on upgrades and a faster hive which is exactly what I like to have. And the upgrades that you are getting really improve the Ultralisk/Baneling style that I use in the lategame.

This Infestor-ling style excels at defending pushes, where Mutalisk-Baneling will have a lot harder time at defending such as the Marine-Tank push. But it cannot delay or put aggression on the Terran well because the Infestor is so pivotal in defending. Aggressive Terrans or Terrans which play revolves around the big midgame push will have a lot more difficulty dealing with this style, but macro Terrans that take a quicker but safe third base will have a slightly easier time. Fortunately, not a lot of Terrans take a third quickly AND safely that they aren't punishable.

This style also has a relatively short midgame, because you are relying on the stronger beefier hivetech units to put back pressure on the Terran rather than your Infestors and Zerglings.

Requirements

[image loading]

You need quick upgrades with this style, because you are heavily reliant on Zerglings. Which both benefit heavily on the upgrades but also need to outupgrade the Terran units to be cost-effective in engagements.

Personally, I start my +1 melee before I start my Lair. When the Lair finishes I get another evolution chamber and get +2 melee and +1 carapace with them. These upgrades are crucial, because they will augment your Hive tech on both fronts and as you tech to hive fast you need the upgrades fast. On top of that, the Zerglings you are relying on in the midgame will be more cost-effective against pushes and drops.

You can also not take a third before your macro hatchery. You need to be able to make a snap reinforcement of a lot of Zerglings in case there is a random push coming up, and a third will often be near the Terran forces and can be more easily harassed than an inbase macro hatchery. On top of that, if you havexcess energy on your main queen, you can tap that to use it on both hatcheries before you have to build another queen to spawn larvae.

You should also get your Infestor tech up as fast as possible. This means getting the Infestation pit the second your Lair finishes , and building the Infestors once the pathogen gland upgrade moves past the 30 second mark while its being researched. After your pathogen glands finish, you should aim for the neural parasite upgrade right after. This combination will make dealing with Marine-Tank midgame pushes a lot easier.

Delaying

The whole point of this style is that you can get a Hive out slightly before the 15 minute mark. Because of that, you obviously want something that can delay or dismantle a variety of pushes. Both of this fits the Infestors glove perfectly.

Your Zerglings should always be out on the map, in the least outside of your natural with some scouting Zerglings on key scouting positions in the line of attack. These Zerglings can be used to force a siege on the tanks simply by feigning a big attack on the Marine-Tank ball. The best way of doing this is by moving in from two sides at once. This gives the Terran a feeling that you are committing to a huge flanking manoeuvre and thus incentive to siege up. If the Terran has to leap frog their tanks all the way over the map, the push will be delayed by a ton.

[image loading]

If Marines are leading the push, a single fungal growth will deal so much damage that the Terran will have to turn around or lose a lot of them that are supposed to tank the Zerglings. And a fungal on a little group of Siege tanks and Marines will snap them into place for a little while, giving you little amounts of time that will give your reinforcing army more time to safely spawn.

Positioning and punishing bad positions

Infestors with their range are one of the few Zerg units that rely on good positioning other than spreading them out or attacking in a concave. If there are Infestors out on the map, the Terran cannot move their Marines forward very far at all. They have to stay by the Siege tanks and preferably behind them. Sieged up tanks have a range of 13 and the fungal growth spell has 9 range, 10 range if you count the radius too. This gives the Infestor a 3 range lee-way of moving around and casting their spell.

If you catch a Marine ball with your fungal growth, you should time the next fungal growth out to be slightly less than 4 ingame seconds. This way you won't give the Terran time to retreat the Marines out of the grip. If you have killed a large amount of Marines with a couple of fungals, move in with all of your Zerglings and wait until you are atleast near the last Siege tank before you Attack move. This will make it so your surround will be much better and will make the Zerglings not focus on the 'meatshield' in the form of Marines. In the engagement, grab the first couple Siege tanks with neural parasite while keeping the other Infestors ready for a clutch fungal growth. This should give you a cost-effective engagement if you did it correctly.

[image loading]

If you can't catch a large amount of Marines before the engagement, there is another way to start to engage your Terran opponent. Move a couple of spreaded out Zerglings towards the entrenchment while keeping your Infestors on stand-by. As soon as the Tanks show up into view, cast a couple of neural parasites on the frontal ones. As your Infestors waggle forward, move your huge Zergling force in before the Tanks can shell at the Infestors to draw fire away from them. Then as the Infestors latch onto the Tanks, move the rest of the Infestors in and start blanket fungalling the Marines while your Zerglings attack them. The Marines should die a very quick horrible death due to the massive splash damage all around, which gives your Zerglings all the room to surround the Tanks and easily take them out.

[image loading]

A great position to have your Infestors before an engagement is on the high ground. In case the force wanders along this ledge, this will give you the perfect place to start neural parasiting and fungalling the units without the Terran knowing. If there is a medivac around, this plan will obviously not be as effective. But you can easily retreat down to the lowground once you spot a Medivac. Also don't just do one single neural parasite, the Terran will notice and instantly scan the high ground where the Infestors will quickly die to tank fire of the other tanks the Terran has with his push.



I hope there is something new for you guys in there.

Thank you for reading, and please let me know if the images work for you T_T
ClydeFrog
Profile Joined March 2011
United States16 Posts
September 04 2011 13:30 GMT
#2
Really well done, very nice work. Images are working fine
TheCorax
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany22 Posts
September 04 2011 13:31 GMT
#3
the images work (for me)
guide looks nice ( first impression)
Soluhwin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1287 Posts
September 04 2011 13:52 GMT
#4
I've never been a fan of infestor ling. I remember trying it ever since I [hipster] read MrBitter's guide on it back before the infestor change happened [/hipster] and I never could get over the lack of map control. I suppose personal preference is just personal preference, though.
I put the sexy in dyslexia.
ZaaaaaM
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1828 Posts
September 04 2011 14:09 GMT
#5
Imgur bugging for me aswell, maybe some dutch thing.^^
Just watched stephano use this style, looked really sick.
Thanks for the guide
no dude, the question
isleyofthenorth
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Austria894 Posts
September 04 2011 14:26 GMT
#6
very nice. you did another matchup guide too? link maybe
DarKcS
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1237 Posts
September 04 2011 14:30 GMT
#7
When it comes to dealing with siege tanks and your infestors dying, you need burrow. Then you can bombard them with infested terrans, and just a-move 40+ lings in if they all unsiege.
Obviously, you only want 1-2 infestors in range at a time, not all 6-12 grouped up together, so when they scan (and lets assume they will) - you don't lose more than 2, and you've used all their energy.
You absolutely need to do damage to the terran with infestors to keep even.
Die tomorrow - Live today
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12384 Posts
September 04 2011 14:33 GMT
#8
nice pictures.

I have a question, how do you deal with super early bunker+siege tanks contain?
It comes at around the time when your infestors can pop
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
rea1ity
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom385 Posts
September 04 2011 15:08 GMT
#9
dispize = despise *

looks good though, going to read it now
그 스타 크래프트의 꿈, 그 꿈 생활
cleecks
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands109 Posts
September 04 2011 15:43 GMT
#10
Yeah the images are also bugging up for me, definitely must be something to do with something in the netherlands.

Great guide though, it covers a lot of terranstyles and responses and it never hurts to check if I'm doing the right thing as a reaction to their style.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
September 04 2011 15:48 GMT
#11
Damn two weeks on a guide and 1.4 will shoot to shit the details
Thank you for the guide though I'm enjoying reading it so far.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-04 15:54:18
September 04 2011 15:49 GMT
#12
On September 04 2011 23:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
very nice. you did another matchup guide too? link maybe


Sure, here it is: http://raa-media.nl/blog/starcraft2/zvz-alpha-omega
That one is about ZvZ.

On September 04 2011 23:33 ETisME wrote:
nice pictures.

I have a question, how do you deal with super early bunker+siege tanks contain?
It comes at around the time when your infestors can pop


Well, when he moves out I should be able to see the small marine-tank force and I can respond by making a million upgraded Zerglings. If you can move around the contain like on Tal darim, do so and set up a flank while you wait for your infestors. If he unsieges and moves his tanks forward uncomfortably close, just engage with all your zerglings. If he engages before he has a certain volume of marines, Zerglings will just stomp all over it if they are in big enough numbers.

Oh and for anyone else reading, there is a big portion about Mutalisk/Baneling too. And my personal favourite, Ultralisk Baneling, which happens to be an excellent transition from Infestor Zergling.

You should transition into Ultralisks fairly quickly when you get your infestors up. If he delayed his push for too long, Ultralisks will be out to tank the damage coming from the tanks. If he attacks too soon, mass zergling should be able to overwhelm him. But note that you need to get a macro hatchery up before you get your third just to be safe.


On September 05 2011 00:48 Probe1 wrote:
Damn two weeks on a guide and 1.4 will shoot to shit the details
Thank you for the guide though I'm enjoying reading it so far.


Nah, I have put up some details in 1.4 format ( in brackets mostly, such as the 11-11 rax timing ) and the fine details aren't really what I want to lean on. I prefer to get the general idea across, the details are only really meant as an eye catcher to keep the reader reading.

Really, lets say hypothetically that a Mutalisk can kill a Marine in 8 shots, but in 1.4 it takes 9 shots. It's still roughly the same and you really won't get in the situation where you think "if only I counted better, now ALL my mutalisks are dead". You should be able to make better judgements with the right figures, but the exact figures do not actually matter to get the idea across.
AtlasJQ
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada138 Posts
September 04 2011 15:49 GMT
#13
This guys ZvZ guide was the best Ive seen written anywhere. I have been eagerly awaiting his ZvT and ZvP guides. Thank you a thousand times!! <3<3
An old schooler from Katans Lair and Mavens Haven - | - Fav SC accomplishment: Beating SSamjang in the first i2e2. Yes, that SSamjang. I am old :(
poorcloud
Profile Joined April 2011
Singapore2748 Posts
September 04 2011 15:53 GMT
#14
This infestor thing will be countered soon enough when terran players start getting 2 - 3 stray banshees to snipe infestors. In fact, i don't even understand why pro terran players don't do this now. Think of it like a mech t v t, the hero banshee wins the day.
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-04 15:57:37
September 04 2011 15:56 GMT
#15
On September 05 2011 00:53 poorcloud wrote:
This infestor thing will be countered soon enough when terran players start getting 2 - 3 stray banshees to snipe infestors. In fact, i don't even understand why pro terran players don't do this now. Think of it like a mech t v t, the hero banshee wins the day.


I do agree with this statement. However we will just have to burrow our infestors when we move them around. In the worst case scenario, we have to get some mutalisks. If they spend so much gas on Banshees, they are bound to have less tanks, which makes their Marine Tank contain easier to hold.

And really, we said that about infestor-broodlord and ghosts too. The only Terran so far I have seen correctly getting ghosts is DeMuslim and Bomber, it takes a long time before a particular race is accomodated to a metagame shift or a different style.
Macpo
Profile Joined September 2010
453 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-04 15:59:42
September 04 2011 15:58 GMT
#16
thanks a lot for this guide (and z v z also!). They are really helpful, definitely my standard reference right now (like the small encyclopedia for zerg play: you got a question, it's in there).

Just one question: I find the moment on how to defend one base marauder helion push not so clear. is the ideal unit composition baneling, queen, zergling? in what proportions? and how do u actually engage?

thanks again, waiting for z v p

"Courage consists, however, in agreeing to flee rather than live tranquilly and hypocritically in false refuges." G. Deleuze
Twelve12
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia268 Posts
September 04 2011 16:06 GMT
#17
i've read the zvz guide as well, how much time do you spend on these? amazing effort
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-04 16:12:44
September 04 2011 16:07 GMT
#18
On September 05 2011 00:58 Macpo wrote:
thanks a lot for this guide (and z v z also!). They are really helpful, definitely my standard reference right now (like the small encyclopedia for zerg play: you got a question, it's in there).

Just one question: I find the moment on how to defend one base marauder helion push not so clear. is the ideal unit composition baneling, queen, zergling? in what proportions? and how do u actually engage?

thanks again, waiting for z v p



Well the best way of defending a marauder-hellion push is to try to herd the units together and get a Baneling detonated on the Hellions. If you have killed the hellions, the marauders will be easy to deal with with a surge of Zerglings. Queens can be used to tank the damage from both the Hellion and the Marauder while the other units do the rest. Really, the best way of defending this is to try to get the units onto creep so your Banelings are faster and micro your heart out to get the Hellions down. Marauders really won't be a big problem in the early game.

ZvP will have to wait for a loooooooong time. That match up is so intense and filled with timings, plus I have to really focus on my education for some time.

On September 05 2011 01:06 Twelve12 wrote:
i've read the zvz guide as well, how much time do you spend on these? amazing effort


Give or take most of your free time. Roughly a day to get the idea and get inspired. A day to get the structure up and after that it is just a loooot of writing whenever you're relaxing and watching a stream in the background. It took roughly two weeks of my time to plan, map out, write, make the images and try to get some replays ( I will put those up some time in the future, my ZvZ guide will get them first ).

The first one took longer, because I actually made the whole blogging platform myself including theming, prettier URLs, RSS Feed, database classes, blog and comment classes ( still has some bugs, will fix them whenever ) which took like 4 weeks to do, thats without writing the ZvZ guide, that took roughly 2 weeks also including the writing and the styling.
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
September 04 2011 16:13 GMT
#19
How do you deal with heavy drop play? After a certain point terrans who turtle on 2-3 bases and start dropping double medivacs everywhere while taking the the watchtowers so they can walk squads of marines into your bases are impossible to deal with because you need mutas to stop the drops.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
Asday
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom388 Posts
September 04 2011 16:30 GMT
#20
Reading through your guide now, and there're a couple spelling/grammar mistakes that bug me. >:
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