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Even dumber than 2 years ago.
Player A: Prove you're Town.
Player B: What? That absurdly ridi-
Player A: He can't do it! Lynch him!
Jubjubs (chanting): It makes so much sense! Lynch him!
or the equally stupid because it's the same thing:
Player A: Prove you aren't Mafia.
Player B: ....
Player A: He's defending himself! Lynch him! Defending yourself is a scumtell!
Jubjubs: My god! Why didn't we see this before! *smacks collective forehead*
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Try to be on the ignorant side, ok?
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United States22154 Posts
Am I a terrible person because I giggled at this?
Although I partially agree, there's a lot of focus on people being "confirmed" because they were on the right bandwagon, or whats worse, being "obviously" scum for doing things that are either pro-town or null tells, what irritates me the most is that people seem to not be reading the thread, but rather just picking out certain posts and voting based on that, without listening to logic or any arguments against their faulty logic.
So tell me Ace, how do you propose to remedy this? Do we need more bootcamp games? Maybe a team melee style mini in which we pair some of the newer players with more experienced players?
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despite this, towns seem to be doing really well as of late. so really, if mafia sucks so bad that even using flawed methods town is slaughtering mafia, maybe the first step should be to improve mafia players.
you cant improve in anything unless you need to improve. so flawed methods are giving great results, we have to change that. the way to do this is not to demand that players stop using flawed methods, but to make sure those methods stop working, thus forcing towns to step up their game.
stop being a pessimist ace, there is a ton of people on this forum willing to try to improve, instead of telling us why we suck, tell us how to improve. add content to your mafia guide, that'd maybe help mafia stop sucking, and in turn force towns to improve too.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Agreed with Ace, and even though I'm a pessimist myself I think there's still hope. Town and Mafia both currently play under the assumption that the majority of participants in a game are lazy (which is relatively true to some extent).
Of course, Mafia is supposed to be fun. If you're playing in a game and having fun, that's the majority of it. Some people don't care to improve for one reason or another, and just like the game as it is.
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Gmarshal the easiest way for people to improve is for them to learn how to read.
Palmar, part of the reason the Town has been doing well is that hosts have given Towns lots of crutches and after the 5 millionth time it's starting to work out. Take out the mass power roles, tone down the number of town prot roles(or make them ineffective), up Mafia KP, and give Scum better roles and things will go back to where dying is actually a very real possibility if you're Town.
As for not being a pessimist: no. I've told people how to improve numerous times. I'm not repeating myself. But maybe I'll finish my Scum guide, and write a Town guide. Then again there is too much awesomeness to share and since people don't read anyway I'm not sure it's worth my time.
@flamewheel: There are a lot of lazy people though. If I have to read another game where people expect someone like BC or Meapak to do majority of the work I'm posting more Head-On-Pants pics.
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I dunno what's going on but it's a lot better than the metagame a few month ago of
Day 1: Lynch Townie
Day 2: Lynch Townie
Day 3: Lynch Townie
Day 4: Lynch Townie
GG
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
There Ace goes again, flaunting his literacy in front of all of us.
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I kinda agree with palmar that scum teams seem to be sucking as of late and most of the town continue cluless, while some few players that are actually investing time in the game and reading the thread looking for motives try to fight a uphill battle to convince the reactive mob of their reads.
I, in particular, would be very interested in reading a scum guide from some of the good scum players around, since I don't think I'm very effective as scum. =)
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On August 07 2011 00:06 Ace wrote:
Palmar, part of the reason the Town has been doing well is that hosts have given Towns lots of crutches and after the 5 millionth time it's starting to work out. Take out the mass power roles, tone down the number of town prot roles(or make them ineffective), up Mafia KP, and give Scum better roles and things will go back to where dying is actually a very real possibility if you're Town.
Those power roles don't come into play until day 2, and many, many games as of late towns are lynching mafia on day 1. The methods may not be good, but the reason for such success is definitely not power roles. I think bad mafia play is much likely candidate for what has been happening of late.
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On August 07 2011 02:38 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2011 00:06 Ace wrote:
Palmar, part of the reason the Town has been doing well is that hosts have given Towns lots of crutches and after the 5 millionth time it's starting to work out. Take out the mass power roles, tone down the number of town prot roles(or make them ineffective), up Mafia KP, and give Scum better roles and things will go back to where dying is actually a very real possibility if you're Town.
Those power roles don't come into play until day 2, and many, many games as of late towns are lynching mafia on day 1. The methods may not be good, but the reason for such success is definitely not power roles. I think bad mafia play is much likely candidate for what has been happening of late.
This is actually a valid point. I think that the level of play has lowered on both ends, but the most dramatic thing for me is seeing so many day one scum lynches.
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Lynching Mafia on Day 1 doesn't guarantee success, and it doesn't mean Mafia will lose. If the Town is winning convincingly every time then it may be setup related and/or shitty players. The Power Roles may not always come into play on Day 1, but even with a mislynch a bunch of Power Roles running around without a good set of roles for Scum is going to sway the game in Town's favor a lot.
How many games have Mafia been lynched Day 1 lately? 3, 4 out of maybe the last 20 games? That doesn't constitute many games.
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United States4714 Posts
Out of the last 5 major games PTP2/WaW2/RTM/AA/XLIII, a townie has only been lynched once. 1 3rd party 3 mafia lynches.
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United States22154 Posts
On August 07 2011 05:42 Mig wrote:
Out of the last 5 major games PTP2/WaW2/RTM/AA/XLIII, a townie has only been lynched once. 1 3rd party 3 mafia lynches.
I refuse to consider WAW2 a real game. :-P
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That's still not a lot of games. 2 of which are PM games iirc (AA, PTP2) that also had a ton of roles, and one hosted by Caller.
What were the setups for all of these games, and what happened Day 1 to get Mafia lynched? Was it actual good play from the Town, bad Scum play, or something else?
ETA: and why are you only counting those and not other games. Normals are "major" games, theme games aren't.
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On August 07 2011 05:54 Ace wrote:
That's still not a lot of games. 2 of which are PM games iirc (AA, PTP2) that also had a ton of roles, and one hosted by Caller.
What were the setups for all of these games, and what happened Day 1 to get Mafia lynched? Was it actual good play from the Town, bad Scum play, or something else?
ETA: and why are you only counting those and not other games. Normals are "major" games, theme games aren't.
AA: we tried to lynch a townie, mafia defended him in what we deemed a scummy way, so we switched the votes last minute to the mafia. another mafia died during the night, the mafia godfather got lynched the day after that and 2 more mafia died to mig's excellent hatter play the next night. None of these were based on DT checks or anything like that, so the conclusion is bad scum play.
RTM: 3 people up for lynch day 1 based on analysis (although one of them was breadcrumbed scum by a dead DT). 2 of the 3 were mafia, one of the mafia claimed dt and bussed the other, we lynched that guy. The next day our vigis and hatters killed 3 mafia, and we lynched the mafia godfather.
WaW2: I claimed 3rd party day one and got lynched, then all hell broke lose and it's a caller game. I still won because... why the hell not!
Mafia XLIII: Varpulis lynched on day 1 based on analysis, game is still in progress.
PTP2: Mafia was about to be lynched on day 1 when a day-DT got a scum result on BC (who was miller), we switched the votes and lynched BC the miller, shot mafia that night. Next day the town lynched the mafia godfather.
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oh, and the XLIII town just lynched the godfather in that game, based on analysis.
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For AA: That could be considered good Town play. Even without DT checks that doesn't mean PRs didn't have a major impact. Then again, if it's Vanilla Town vs Scum and it's a massive loss chances are bad Scum play.
RTM: How did a Mafia claim DT on Day 1 and bus the other with no checks? Did the game start Night 0? Also what was the setup. That sounds pretty ridiculous but if that was the game hosted by RoL I better read the setup again.
Waw2: No comment.
MafiaXLIII: I'll wait till the game is over.
PTP: Isn't exactly the most balanced of formats because of the nature of the game. A Day DT v_v
Also all of these are Theme games except XLIII - what about the Normals?
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United States22154 Posts
AA was a normal. Also wasn't aa the one where the sk led the town all game long? :-P
To be honest I think scum play and town play has been pretty abysmal, and the stick to measure that should be normals. RTM was semi theme IMO, and AA the sk sided with the town, so they are hardly an even measuring stick.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/150/f/2010/061/2/2/ZP___Pants_on_head_by_SasukeXIII.jpg)
