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I am a gold player and in an attempt to help my ZvZ troubles against baneling rushes, I tried working with my current standard build (11Overpool 22 Hatch) into something safer, especially against early banes.
A normal baneling attack off of 14/14 will come around 5:00, possibly afterwards, although this timing might be more symptomatic of the ability to macro at my level. A 10/10 baneling attack comes at around 4:20. Note that these timings are based off of Xel'Naga Caverns, which has a shorter rush distance and also provides the luxury of knowing spawn locations so a 10/10 is less risky and more viable, while the larger maps would have a slightly longer attack time and possibly less chance of baneling rushes.
This build is designed to work off the 11Overpool, which I really like in ZvZ since it is essentially "cheese-proof" as any early pool can be held off by this and be ahead. It is also economical in and of itself since you get an early queen so I don't ever feel behind using it.
However, I wasn't sure what to do after 18 food since you are supposed to go hatch in ZvT and ZvP but that's way too unsafe in ZvZ especially against early heavy pressure with banes.
The goal is to get out three roaches quickly to make a wall, and provide a good transition without hurting the economy.
Build:
10- Extractor Trick
11- Overlord
11- Spawning Pool
15- Extractor
@100% Pool- Queen (occurs at 15/18)
17- Overlord
18-Zergling (to scout with, look for any incoming attacks or an early hatch)
18- Roach Warren
20- Evolution Chamber
20- Overlord
@ larva spawn- 3 Roaches (rally to ramp and make wall)
@ 100min 100gas- Missile Attack Level 1
I attached a replay against computer, sorry but I didn't have any practice partners at the time that I got the timings down well and this is not a guide, more a topic to ask for help and insight into the build's viability.
My building placement's are very intentional to help protect against a speedling all-in by walling off most of the base while the area around the geysers can be walled off with roaches to completely protect the drones.
My overlords are also sent in an intentional pattern to the normal attack paths to catch any early pressure and allow time to make zerglings for defense.
I thought going for an early missile attack was cute to add on since it allows you to go for a one base roach all-in or expand to two base and have a roach tech advantage if the opponent went for roaches himself, which I feel like is a really good set up for the zerg midgame of mass roach. A spine crawler would be safer and be basically the same cost. Extractor trick to build the 3 roaches would also work, at the expense of not having a complete wall there.
I think the build lacks a lot in early scouting, since there is no real scouting until the lings at 18 supply, but I feel like on most maps, that's enough time to see an attack coming and prepare adequately. I don't scout in the replay, mostly because I don't have the apm for it :p I guess because of that, someone going hatch first would be allowed to get away with it, though I'll have to experiment to see if a roach all-in at that point would work, before he can get econ and production up.
But in summary, right before the 5 minute mark, I have three roaches at my ramp (they would already be in a wall too, if I didn't suck at it so much), 17 drones, missile attack with 2 minutes to completion and a queen out. I skip zergling speed since it's not necessary for what I want to do and I skip on expanding since that is way too risky.
I'd appreciate any comments you have to help me out with developing this, and whether my benchmarks are even a good thing to strive for. I think this is a decently economical build since I don't ever cut drones. There is a slight supply block at 26, but I think it's okay since I don't ever make any units otherwise.
http://drop.sc/18339
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I have not actually watched the replay but since I claim to be a decent Zerg player myself I should say I am familiar with the concept and the timings involved.
My primary concerns are these;
- what happens if the other guy puts alot of early pressure on with speedlings before his baneling nest is actually complete? In a standard 14/14, you can easily save up 2-3 larvae for right when the pool finishes, and those will guaranteed reach your base before your roaches can be out. This early in the game, your only other options are a spine crawler or matching his ling count -2 (since you do have your queen to fight, too) and in your build losing 2 larvae worth of drones is actually hurting your economy quite a lot with this early a pool.
- When his scouting lings enter your base (and if you only make 1 pair of lings to scout, his will enter your base), what if he sees the super early roach warren and just cancels his baneling nest and expands off of a whole bunch of speedlings? You would have to wait a long time before you have any chance to be agressive with a build like this, and in this time he can easily have used 2 bases worth of production to become ahead in you in income and still have an army that is capable of holding your roach attack. Following this you would be very far behind economically, and only very slightly ahead in tech.
I would suggest you alter your gameplay slightly. Instead of +1 missile attack, make zergling speed. This way you can expand if he expands without losing map control completely, you can be agressive without the fear of simply losing your entire base to mass zerglings (your own zerglings will threaten him of the same fate should be go for the basetrade), and ling/roach works very well against pure ling or pure roach, and sort of decently against ling/baneling. Just make sure to not lose all your lings to a baneling explosion 
Once you get more comfortable, a hatch first into fast roaches is also a decent option. It sacrifices map control a lot, and you play from slightly behind for a minute or two as you sacrifice economy for safety - but once you get that safety you are relatively free to drone up, especially if he expands to try and catch up with you. (Spot for +1 attack mass ling allin, though).
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I've defeated top 100 zergs with build somewhat similar to your opener. I really think your general build idea is on a good track, since it is rather similar to what I often do in games (although zvz is very volatile and transitive, so at higher levels, there's a lot of mind games and scouting and guesswork and countering done, varying the build depending on the circumstances)
I'll go over your build a way I might do it. What's said may not be entirely accurate as I'm going from memory.
•11 overlord, 11 pool
•14 or 15 or even 16 extractor (depending on scouted opponent and/or preference and other factors, such as fast roach attack upgrade, lair)
•15 1 zergling, 1 queen (optionally 2 pair of zerglings, but then you need to save 1 extra larva)
•18 overlord
•18 roach warren
•19-20 stop building drones (19 if built an evo chamber, else 20)
• When RW finishes, build 3 roaches , overlord next, then the rest drones
(Something not mentioned in the BO I covered was the evolution chamber, which you do have money to build after the roach warren.)
That last part can be a bit tricky, and the timings are more precise than just supply number.
The reason for stopping drone production on 19 (as opposed to 20) is a combination of income, supply, and larva — mostly larva. You don't want to be stuck at 3 or more larva for any sustained period of time, and this way produces 3 roaches quickly, while not messing up the larva/production/economy much.
Once the 3 roaches are in production, you can pump drones, start attack upgrade, start lair, and start second gas. It is very important to watch out for roach and/or ling attacks of course. Once you hit 22-25 drones, stop additional drone production (saturated).
If the opponent started an expansion once the roaches were spotted, you can choose to either expand, or pressure (like most game situation crossroads). If they expanded earlier than that, you should prefer to attack (+1 timing attack) as soon as possible, morphing 3 roach eggs (or hatched, much safer) set to block ramp before moving out.
One thing that's important to realize, is this build should NOT be run vs fast expanding zergs. If scouted, stop drone production at 14, do not build a gas, and perform ling pressure instead (gas trick 3 pairs of lings and a queen when pool finishes, and optionally send out 1-3 drones for proxy spines)
Thraundil goes over some rather good points that you should be aware of.
On July 04 2011 15:53 Thraundil wrote:
- what happens if the other guy puts alot of early pressure on with speedlings before his baneling nest is actually complete? In a standard 14/14, you can easily save up 2-3 larvae for right when the pool finishes, and those will guaranteed reach your base before your roaches can be out. This early in the game, your only other options are a spine crawler or matching his ling count -2 (since you do have your queen to fight, too) and in your build losing 2 larvae worth of drones is actually hurting your economy quite a lot with this early a pool. Speedlings will not be a threat before roaches pop out when you get roaches out this fast. You don't seem to realize that not only is it faster to get 3 roaches than zergling speed if the pool timings are equal, but an 11 pool build gets it even faster due to the quicker pool. More than 4 zerglings (without speed) can be an issue though. In such a circumstance, one needs to simply build another pair or few of zerglings, instead of drones. Micro of the queen and drones combined with building positioning helps a lot too.
On July 04 2011 15:53 Thraundil wrote:
- When his scouting lings enter your base (and if you only make 1 pair of lings to scout, his will enter your base), what if he sees the super early roach warren and just cancels his baneling nest and expands off of a whole bunch of speedlings? You would have to wait a long time before you have any chance to be agressive with a build like this, and in this time he can easily have used 2 bases worth of production to become ahead in you in income and still have an army that is capable of holding your roach attack. Following this you would be very far behind economically, and only very slightly ahead in tech.
To be safe as well as sneaky, zerg can get 2 pairs of lings to deny zergling scout, but it's not necessary.
About getting substantially ahead... that's not the case. For starters, the roaches can be built later if there's no noticed threat, but building them just in case is still fine. Zerglings are not as cost efficient as roaches, getting the hatchery early costs zerg some short-term economy (6 potential drones technically), which takes time to recoup. A timing attack of +1 roaches will cost-effectively attack the opponent's expansion, denying mining and forcing more zergling production.
If it's a huge map and/or a map with a choked natural, then they aren't as in as good of a situation to attack early, and instead can expand behind (without being at much or any of a disadvantage), or opt a burrow timing attack (rushed lair), expanding at the same time (which does work well).
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I also really like cheese-proof 11overpool. 
I used to be the one going speedling > baneling every ZvZ... but now I use early roaches because I feel like zerglings/banelings take up too much larva.
+ Show Spoiler +*roughly*
11overpool
15gas@~125minerals
14queen
16roachwarren
16overlord
16overlord
make 6 roaches and force a response from the opponent while back at base:
- pull 1 drone off gas
- 28 drone to 32
- 32evo
- 32overlord
make around 4 more drones
get 2nd gas
+1 roach push at around 60-70 food
expand or all-in
midgame plan
- 2 base
- +1 melee and +1 range
- speedling roach infestor mix
lategame plan
- 3 base
- some more upgrades
- utlralisk ling roach infestor
I usually don't share this build because I'm pretty sure a lot of people will say this is a terrible build. They have good reasons. People argue this is all-in. I'm not going to argue about it. It has weaknesses and I am aware of them. I just wanted to share it with you since it looks like you are interested in experimenting with early roaches in ZvZ.
I've been using this build for a very long time and it has given me good results. The early roaches arrive at an awkward time, and every push that comes after can arrive at very awkward times to catch your opponent off guard.
Your first 3 roaches hatch at 4:45. Use them to force a response from the opponent or else you will be behind in drones. The remaining 3 roaches that hatch a little later... you can use offensively or defensively. You should overtake him in drone count during the engagement.
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Almost everything said here is true, this will die to fast aggro like 11overpool and stream of lings or something like that.
What i'm doing (only plat level, but working pretty nicely) - roughly described, it can deviate.
11overpool, up to 13 drones, then 3 pair of lings and queen - lings are soo useful! And then it really depends on what i scout with those 6 lings ... if it's hatch first, i just go for mass speedling, if its something like 14 gas pool, i try to keep lings there as long as they could (you MUST not lose them!), so you have scouting information and you actually force other one to build some defence. In meantime i go for fast roach warren and when are my lings dead/left the base, i have 3 roaches out or warren completed ... so no banes will hurt me ;-) Then i expand ...
It's good, because - you have scouting info, you can actually punish greedy zerg and you will cause some damage with those lings so you will not be economically behind (even by forcing him not to drone).
Hope it will help ;-)
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without reading rest replies (no time atm) i suggest u look through this strategy forum and look for the 9pool opening into +1 speed roaches. I have beaten countless master players with it, and maintain something like a 90% win rate in diamond with it. The only thing i lose to is a fast macro hatch MASS speedling, and we are talking mass. The moment banes appear is very often the moment you won. I think the guy who created is called aXa or smth, cant remember. I think in gold u will win all ur zvz's if u do it right. I have modified the build very slightly if ur interested u can pm me gl, i know it is definetly a one off build, and u cant consider it standard, but if ur frustrated cause ur losing ur zvz (as I was) this one is very good.
gl
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On July 04 2011 22:21 warmus wrote:
i suggest u look through this strategy forum and look for the 9pool opening into +1 speed roaches. I have beaten countless master players with it, and maintain something like a 90% win rate in diamond with it. The only thing i lose to is a fast macro hatch MASS speedling, and we are talking mass.
I have to say there's pretty much no reason to go for a 9pool in SC2, except I think maybe for the fastest zergling speed build (can't remember), or possibly a spine-ling rush. The pool is a bit earlier, but the economy suffers compared to 11 overpool. If it doesn't deal significant damage early on, then the build is a bust. Now I guess you're having success with it so it's not terrible, but it depends on the maps and what strategies the opponents were using.
If it's a hatch first build you have problems with, that shouldn't be an issue, but I suppose you mean fast in-base hatch after pool
On July 04 2011 19:19 Pamposek wrote:
11overpool, up to 13 drones, then 3 pair of lings and queen - lings are soo useful! And then it really depends on what i scout with those 6 lings ... if it's hatch first, i just go for mass speedling, if its something like 14 gas pool, i try to keep lings there as long as they could (you MUST not lose them!), so you have scouting information and you actually force other one to build some defence. In meantime i go for fast roach warren and when are my lings dead/left the base, i have 3 roaches out or warren completed ... so no banes will hurt me ;-) Then i expand ...
It's good, because - you have scouting info, you can actually punish greedy zerg and you will cause some damage with those lings so you will not be economically behind (even by forcing him not to drone). Even though that is playing at rather low level, this advice is really good. However, I'd say if you want to get 3 pairs of lings, get it at 14 supply and gas trick them out.
Personally, I don't like getting more than 1-2 pairs of lings unless they went hatch first though, this is because if you move out with 6 lings, they will have 6 or more lings ready to defend by the time you get there. 2-4 lings can do good scouting without losses, so why sacrifice a drone?
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EPT
