[G] (T) 3 racks : Cheesing your way to GM league

Geiko

France2012 Posts

May 16 2011 01:07 GMT

Good evening TL,

A brief introduction, I am geiko, mid-master league protoss (rank 50 in my league average) and very crappy terran player, like plat level. For those of you who don't believe me, i brought a replay of me playing terran against a friend. Warning : its painful to see...

edit : LOL, you people are actualy downloading this replay ? ^^

I've never played more than a couple of games of terran, usualy in team games. However, I got to here in 2 days :

You want to know how I did it ?

To reach this level, I just spammed about 60-70 games as Terran doing ONLY the same build.

Build order :
Three rax before orbital with supply call down.
+ Show Spoiler +

10 depot at the bottom of the ramp (Rally your 9th worker to the bottom of the ramp)
11 barracks (finish the wall off)
cut SCVs at 12
12 barracks at top of ramp (rally your 12th scv to the top of ramp)
12 barracks at top of ramp (pull SCV at 100 minerals to build barracks)

With the the scv making the second barracks, go scout when it is finished. If 2 player map, no need to scout.

12 marine
13 marine
14 marine
15 OC
then only marines.

call down supply on your supply depot as soon as you can. The timing should be perfect to allow you to build your 20th supply marine.

clear the watch towers with 2-3 marines then push out with ALL SCVs and marines at about 4:30.

Practise your micro and win ^^

Why OC instead of depot ? (as asked by many in this thread) :
+ Show Spoiler +

The only restraint that the build has is that it should be able to make constant marines once the racks are done (not a single pause between marine production).
With that in mind, if I can squeeze in an OC in the BO while not cutting on marines, the result will be the same as getting an extra SD (SD costs 100 + mining time ~ 130 compared to 150 orbital) but I'll have MULEs in case things go wrong.

The disadvantages of OC vs depot are
- ~20 minerals lost at end
- scoutable supply call down (but with good map awareness, your 3 marines can prevent anything from seeing that calldown)

The advantage is that it can help you win extremely tight games (for example, see the replay with MoMaN where we both fall at 3 supply but I have MULEs ^^)

An OC with 3 racks can help you pump ~3 marine per minute. After your initial attack ends, if you did enough damage, you should have 6 marines at home or being rallied to opponents base that can make the difference

Important details :

Practise walling off with supply + barracks : it's not that easy !
Link to a great thread about this by michaelhasanalias :http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214208

Rally your marines into your base, not at the ramp so scouts cannnot see them. Only rally the marines from the first barracks at your ramp.

You NEED map control. Be active with your first marines (clear watch towers, chase scouts etc...)

Practise stutter-step micro !

vsProtoss : Try to attack using a different path than the normal attack. Your push has the timing to be intercepted by the zealot + stalker poke and you don't want that (stalkers can kite you all the way back to their base) Try to spot the stalkers with your 2 scout marines and attack with your main army from a different path.
Don't worry about one or two FF at the ramp. If you timed this right (5:10 at his ramp) he shouldn't have more than one or two. If he does, it means he got a sentry instead of a stalker and once you get up the ramp, it should be that much easier for you.
While in the protoss base, if he refuses to engage you, take out the pylons as a priority.

vsZerg :
If you are scouted with overlord, you will need to push a bit more early and try to bunker rush him.
Always make the first marine pop INSIDE your wall off (even though it is tempting to go outside to kill the scout). If you pop outside and he has 6 or 7 pooled, you lost the game right there.
Engage with SCVs first.

vs Terran : This is the hardest matchup. If he scouts you, you are dead 100% (bunker + repair = gg). The key element is surprise. Walk up the ramp as fast as you can with scvs first and circle the bunker before he has a chance to send SCVs to repair. If he doesn't have a bunker, it shouldn't be too hard to kill him.

Strength and weekness of the build :

It hits extremely hard, with about 9 marines and 12 SCV. If your opponent has never seen this build and doesn't expect it, he WILL lose.
It is extremely easy to pull-off (plat level mecanics, 0 strategy involved)

If scouted, you will die a horrible death vs anyone (except vs protoss, they have to pull some decent micro to beat you even when scouted).
Susceptible to being harrassed with scouting worker

Replays : Trolling the Pros

I said GM in my title when I am only rank 1 Master because I like provocative thread Titles ^^ I meant that I just play at a GM level (even match vs most of the GMs I have played) because you can't really get in the GM league right now

Here are a couple of my victims in one afternoon :

KrasS (GM rank 15) : + Show Spoiler +

ToD (GM rank 19) : + Show Spoiler +

Mondragon (GM rank 21) : + Show Spoiler +

mTwRINE (GM rank 25) : + Show Spoiler +

RGICytoplasm (GM rank 50) : + Show Spoiler +

Siw (GM rank 60): + Show Spoiler +

WarLord (GM rank 65) : + Show Spoiler +

CN!MoMaN (GM rank 80) : + Show Spoiler +

RAZERservyoa (GM rank 80) : + Show Spoiler +

AiSeiplo (GM rank 90) : + Show Spoiler +

VirusLaukyo (GM rank 110) : + Show Spoiler +

NaViSlaViK (GM rank 111) : + Show Spoiler +

Me losing (how to counter this):

Warning, some of these replays, I might have screwed up, or bad positions or people might just know about his build and blind counter it. This is just an indication of how to deal with it.

vs Protoss :
+ Show Spoiler +

MYMSaSe (GM ~rank 25)
He chronoes out sentries

ZyJimmeh (rank 1 Master (1400 points), top 2 EU master behind MStephano)
He gets fast stalkers and microes them around, kiting my marines all the way from my base to his.

More replays coming soon

vs Terran :
+ Show Spoiler +

Just get a bunker and repair it ^^

Countering it without scouting and without bunker by SjoW ^^
Very close game, I think with better micro i could have won...

More Replays coming soon

vs Zerg :
+ Show Spoiler +

RGICytoplasm (GM ~rank50)
He gets ultra fast banelings

More replays coming soon

Conclusion :

I had fun trolling a couple pro players in my one day of laddering as Terran. I am aware that I probably won't be able to win anymore games against pros once I post this, but I have a couple of hard weeks of work ahead of me, and I decided to post this so as to not be tempted to spend whole days laddering ^^

As a protoss player, I feel this strategy is the easiest and most effective cheese in the game. It takes little to no skill and can beat just about anyone (see replays). Try to have a friend perform it on you, I took about 15 games before understanding how to deal with it.
The bottom wall-in makes it impossible for your opponent to scout you, and he is basicaly playing in the dark until 9 marines and 12 SCVs come knocking at his door

Have fun with it (if you plan to use it) and as always, feel free to leave comments (I've been called a cheesing noob on the ladder all day, i can take it here as well ^^)
You can also feel free to tell me I'm awesome btw (<3)

101toss

3232 Posts

May 16 2011 01:14 GMT

This guy does a slightly similar build:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2211722493
10- Supply (bottom of the ramp)
12- Rax (wall off bottom of the ramp)
14- Rax
14- Rrax
15- OC
17- (drop supply on the supply depot at the bottom of the ramp)
I feel the OP's build is weaker in that it cuts worker count for the same timing (both OC's on 15).

jonathan1

United States395 Posts

May 16 2011 01:16 GMT

i knew i could get to GM one day

User was warned for this post

mTwRINE

Germany318 Posts

May 16 2011 01:22 GMT

I knew it was coming because every time I saw Wall-In on low ground on Delta it was Rine/SCV All-in but its always stronger than expected (last time was few month ago) and as you said Protoss still needs very good micro.

lilky

United States131 Posts

May 16 2011 01:26 GMT

I met you in the ladder the other day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i lost to this so badly >.<
i was wondering whether you'd cheesed your way to master league

good stuff

zergrushkekeke

Australia241 Posts

May 16 2011 01:27 GMT

I'll have to start walling off at the bottom just to make them guess if I am doing this or a 1 rax expand.

Can zerg get out a baneling next fast enough to deal with this? If they FE is there anything you have to watch out for?

Also I have to start saying I am in master league even though really I'm in gold, since on weekends I play poker with a guy who is in masters.

theBIGdog

United States41 Posts

May 16 2011 01:29 GMT

yet another strategy guide on how to abuse the best unit in the game

User was temp banned from strategy forum for this post.

Geiko

France2012 Posts

May 16 2011 01:31 GMT

On May 16 2011 10:14 101toss wrote:
This guy does a slightly similar build:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2211722493
10- Supply (bottom of the ramp)
12- Rax (wall off bottom of the ramp)
14- Rax
14- Rrax
15- OC
17- (drop supply on the supply depot at the bottom of the ramp)
I feel the OP's build is weaker in that it cuts worker count for the same timing (both OC's on 15).

I've experimented with 11 rack 14 racks 14 racks build, but it delays the marines by a lot (more than 30 secs)... My build lets you produce non stop marines off 3 racks. Building 2 racks a bit later just means you'll have a bit less marines (but a bit more SCVs...).

On May 16 2011 10:22 RineTS wrote:
I knew it was coming because every time I saw Wall-In on low ground on Delta it was Rine/SCV All-in but its always stronger than expected (last time was few month ago) and as you said Protoss still needs very good micro.

Yeah, I think as a rule we should always expect cheese when faced with a low ground wall-in. However, it's hard to know what to do, Terran could just about be doing anything : double gas tech, 1 rax FE, etc... If you commit too much to stopping a push that is not coming, it can put you behind in the mid game.

Tsuki.eu

Portugal1049 Posts

May 16 2011 01:31 GMT

wall in on the bottom of the ramp = scv all in.

when T 1rax expo they wall in normaly because they will build the 16supply food depot and complete the wall.

better just to proxy 2 rax, and let them scout no gas imo.

Geiko

France2012 Posts

May 16 2011 01:34 GMT

#10

On May 16 2011 10:27 zergrushkekeke wrote:
I'll have to start walling off at the bottom just to make them guess if I am doing this or a 1 rax expand.

Can zerg get out a baneling next fast enough to deal with this? If they FE is there anything you have to watch out for?

Also I have to start saying I am in master league even though really I'm in gold, since on weekends I play poker with a guy who is in masters.

Yes you can get out a baneling in time, however you have to know 100% that it is coming.
I was matched against RGICytoplasm twice in a row. First time I rolled him, second time, he knew what I was doing so he got 2 extremely fast banelings out and destroyed my push. My Terran micro is terrible so i lost everything to splash, not sure though if it would have worked with correct marine splitting.

Geiko

France2012 Posts

May 16 2011 01:39 GMT

#11

On May 16 2011 10:31 Tsuki.eu wrote:
wall in on the bottom of the ramp = scv all in.

when T 1rax expo they wall in normaly because they will build the 16supply food depot and complete the wall.

better just to proxy 2 rax, and let them scout no gas imo.

Proxy 2 racks is fine vs Zerg (I do sometimes when I face an opponent who knows this 3 racks build) but is absolutely terrible vs Protoss and Terran. The minute they scout your base, they can react accordingly.

burster

Canada66 Posts

May 16 2011 01:41 GMT

#12

so not only tasteless steals my ladder points now but so do you and every other person who reads this thread!?!

Tsuki.eu

Portugal1049 Posts

May 16 2011 01:42 GMT

#13

On May 16 2011 10:39 Geiko wrote:

Show nested quote +

in tvt and tvp you gassless expand more often than bottom of ramp wall in, so i dont think its worse to be scouted.

Geiko

France2012 Posts

May 16 2011 01:46 GMT

#14

On May 16 2011 10:42 Tsuki.eu wrote:

Show nested quote +

in tvt and tvp you gassless expand more often than bottom of ramp wall in, so i dont think its worse to be scouted.

The real problem is not the fact that they scout your gas, it is the fact that they scout your empty base (except 1 racks) and low SCV count. 12 scv - 2 proxy SCVs is very easily scoutable

101toss

3232 Posts

May 16 2011 01:49 GMT

#15

On May 16 2011 10:46 Geiko wrote:

Show nested quote +

The real problem is not the fact that they scout your gas, it is the fact that they scout your empty base (except 1 racks) and low SCV count. 12 scv - 2 proxy SCVs is very easily scoutable

3rax all-in is just as scoutable, cut SCV count, delayed OC, no gas, shitload of rax (if the 2 rax are not proxied/hidden), gives toss time to get up cannons (or even chrono out a sentry)

425kid

416 Posts

May 16 2011 01:56 GMT

#16

why dont you drop mules after you move out and squeeze out a couple more marines?

porkRaven

United States953 Posts

May 16 2011 01:57 GMT

#17

On May 16 2011 10:29 theBIGdog wrote:
yet another strategy guide on how to abuse the best unit in the game

SVC's are not really OP, but I do believe they're almost balanced with Probes and Drones, although they have no regen so they are the worst of the 3 in my opinion. :D
I mean they can harvests resources, constructs buildings and can repair all Terran mechanical units and buildings. Although they do have 5 more health than the other workers and they can repair other buildings and mechanical units. Great meat shields. But in the end I don't believe that the game would be as good without our good friend the [image loading]

Tortious_Tortoise

United States944 Posts

May 16 2011 02:04 GMT

#18

Cool strat for a BoX match, but useless if you want to focus on improving your game imo. I suppose it helps marine micro, but I hate seeing cheese on the ladder because it's so counter-productive to the improvement of the player-pool.