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DoctorPhil
Netherlands168 Posts
I don't see what I can possibly do agaisnt this if I have the misfortune of scouting him last, I couldn't even see his overlord. Do I really need to go forge first in every single game? I doubt that would even have made a difference. So.... any way to survive this? http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=196964 Watch the replay before commenting please. ps. 3,3k diamond (me) vs. 300 plat..... | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
Pylon your 1-gate core/forge gap, keep mining, chrono out a zealot (it will land behind your gate), and just keep making units. You should build a forge immediately when you scout 6pool, but if it doesn't finish, you can buy time very easily. Your gateway and possibly your forge will go down, but that's okay... make a 1-zealot wall again with pylons, and force him into a bottleneck. Get a cannon up. Your 1 zealot (and if he's bad, 2 zealots) can solo 12 lings 1 at a time. Bring up a probe, and if he's still auto attacking stuff hold the probe position and pick at the lings without giving up the 1-gap wall. also, use your scouting probe that he ran by to kill his drones or harass them. A perfectly executed 6pool will look like this: 6 lings @2:12 8 lings @2:27 10 lings @2:42 --------------------- +6 lings @~3:50 (plus travel time) In other words, if you hold off those 10 lings, you're in great shape. Delay delay delay, and try not to use your probes unless you absolutely can't hold a pylon corridor. | ||
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Flavalanche
United States164 Posts
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DoctorPhil
Netherlands168 Posts
also, use your scouting probe that he ran by to kill his drones or harass them. Dude, did you even watch the replay? If you read my OP (or even the thread title), you would know that he used his drones too. It is evident that you didn't even read the first post. Try again. | ||
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DoctorPhil
Netherlands168 Posts
On March 20 2011 22:34 Flavalanche wrote: Just make your normal protoss 1-slot wall into a full wall with a pylon, and you should be able to chronoboost out a couple zealots by the time he gets in, and even then pull off a few probes. + Show Spoiler + But he stood there with a drone so I couldnt finish it, and a second later all his stuff was there. I dooubt a complete wall off would have helped, I didnt have a forge thus no cannons. Forge first is for forge expand, but I don't do that on a map like this. Even if I had finished a zealot, It would not be enough and he would destroy the wall. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On March 20 2011 22:38 DoctorPhil wrote: But he stood there with a drone so I couldnt finish it, and a second later all his stuff was there. I dooubt a complete wall off would have helped, I didnt have a forge thus no cannons. Forge first is for forge expand, but I don't do that on a map like this. Even if I had finished a zealot, It would not be enough and he would destroy the wall. you have to FINISH IT PULL PROBE IF NEEDED its a crucial thing in PvZ, never let them delay your cyber!!!! | ||
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Mikau
Netherlands1446 Posts
Also, kill the drone stalling your wall in with a probe, build the wall the moment the drone is out of position. | ||
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Nis
Singapore45 Posts
I was gonna say use an additional probe scout to detect if theres any overlord in close air positions but the distance and hence timing of this close air is kinda funky. Normally on Metal or LT you can scout a close air ovie at around 11 food and allow you to switch your scout probe position fast enough but i notice this ovie can only be seen around 14/15 food which by then is too late too So my suggestion would be, 9 scout as per normal, but check the close air gold expo for overlord scouting, then swing to close rush position scout if you dont see an OL. 99.9% of the time a zerg will path his overlord that way, especially if he plans to cheese. This will delay your scout by 20s or so but you should still have enough time to react if he is doing the same build on cross positions (longer rush dist and you scout marginally earlier than if you scout normally and found him on the last position) | ||
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DoctorPhil
Netherlands168 Posts
you have to FINISH IT PULL PROBE IF NEEDED its a crucial thing in PvZ, never let them delay your cyber!!!! Edit: Watched the replay again, and i noticed my gate wasn't even done soon enough, I couldn't have placed a cyber anyway. So, if I don't preemtively 12 gate or scout for that overlord I'm dead. Now i'll have to memorise the overlord timings for every 4 player map :s Anyway, thanks guys. | ||
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Geiko
France1952 Posts
To start off, you go for a greedy 14 gate with double chrono on nexus. The standard is 13 gate, 2nd chrono on 14 btw. Your pylon and gate timings are horrible. I went and tried for myself :all these little imperfection add up to 5 seconds late on your pylon, 10 seconds late on your gate, and 10-15 secs on your scout. A proper execution gives you 25 seconds of time to prepare between the time you scout the all in and the time lings + drones are in your base while you barely had 10 seconds in your replay. 25 secs is by far enough time to chase the drone and finish the wall off. As protoss, you'll find that the only way to survive early game is to have perfect timings. If you are off by 5 seconds when building your FIRST structure, then don't be surprised if you lose to early cheese / all in... | ||
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
them 6 pools are "pretty fucking imba" xd | ||
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DoctorPhil
Netherlands168 Posts
Metalopolis. 1:30 Shattered temple. 1:16 For other 4 player maps with short sideways distances send a worker at the area in between if there is one. Hope this helps some other people too. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On March 20 2011 23:36 DoctorPhil wrote: I just looked at the timings where an overlord can earlyest spot your base when you start sideways of each other. These are the only 4 player maps I haven't vetoed where there is no area in between to scout. Metalopolis. 1:30 Shattered temple. 1:16 For other 4 player maps with short sideways distances send a worker at the area in between if there is one. Hope this helps some other people too. Thanks~ Good info. I never really tested the timings for 4 player maps xd. | ||
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DoctorPhil
Netherlands168 Posts
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Geiko
France1952 Posts
I already explained that you can counter this rush by actually trying to improve your play instead of blaming game balance. | ||
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DoctorPhil
Netherlands168 Posts
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Mikau
Netherlands1446 Posts
On March 20 2011 23:52 Geiko wrote: Sarcasm because no one is going to pull a worker of mining for the sole purpose of trying to spot an overlord ... I already explained that you can counter this rush by actually trying to improve your play instead of blaming game balance. Excuse me? You lose 5 seconds of mining time in exchange of knowing where he is way ahead of when your probe scout would've gotten there. Most good players do pull a probe to spot the overlord, at least on shattered temple and metalopolis (dunno about shakuras or the new maps). | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On March 20 2011 23:52 Geiko wrote: Sarcasm because no one is going to pull a worker of mining for the sole purpose of trying to spot an overlord ... I already explained that you can counter this rush by actually trying to improve your play instead of blaming game balance. a) Pros start doing this. All you have to do in close-air positions is to click a probe, move to edge of the base, and move it back. You'll see an overlord. You seem skeptical. b) This allows you to scout faster. Do you want your 1st scouting probe to fail 2 times? Only 5 seconds for positional knowledge. What league are you in? @Doctor I wasn't being sarcastic.. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
On March 20 2011 23:52 Geiko wrote: Sarcasm because no one is going to pull a worker of mining for the sole purpose of trying to spot an overlord .. Yeah we never see the pros do this! :D | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On March 21 2011 00:10 iChau wrote: a) Pros start doing this. All you have to do in close-air positions is to click a probe, move to edge of the base, and move it back. You'll see an overlord. You seem skeptical. b) This allows you to scout faster. Do you want your 1st scouting probe to fail 2 times? Only 5 seconds for positional knowledge. What league are you in? @Doctor I wasn't being sarcastic.. It's what I do every TvZ on a smaller 4 player map like metal, or shattered. Scout the close ground spot, and at 11 supply scout the edge of my base, just as my depot finishes. That was, I have 3/4 the chance to stop their expo by finding their OL or blindly going close ground. If it's cross map, you know they'll macro so harass. In short -- gotta learn OL timings. New maps are harder, but if you saw the OL early you should gather where he's at roughly. Slagpits is a rush central map. I 2 rax everyone but Z that map. | ||
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