Hey everyone, me and my friend recently played a few custom games on "Debris Field." It's a map that is made up completely of islands, and the only way to get around is to invest in air or drop tech.

tech i

Why have we not seen any island maps played at the competitive level yet? Island maps were played in Starcraft 1 tournaments, why not Starcraft 2? Are there any inherent racial imbalances that would be brought to light on island maps, such as Terran being able to fly their buildings around(namely scv-loaded command centers) or Zerg getting ridiculous map vision with overlords and creep?

Gemini_19

United States1251 Posts

February 20 2011 20:40 GMT

Basically what you said is why we don't use them. They aren't fit for competitive play and favor different races heavily. The only reason they were in SC1 tournaments were because early SC1 didn't know any better, and they used the maps that they were given.

mvpAKAenvyME

Canada179 Posts

February 20 2011 20:40 GMT

true dis

nick00bot

326 Posts

February 20 2011 20:43 GMT

Here are some replays of leaky and I playing on this map, the geography of it makes for really diverse strategies.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/142063-2v2-terran-protoss-debris-field

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/142062-1v1-terran-protoss-debris-field

ALPINA

3791 Posts

February 20 2011 20:44 GMT

Well the games would be super boring. All early/mid game turle in base and then go air. For example you guaranteed that toss goes void/phoenix, zerg goes muta/corruptor, etc..

laegoose

Russian Federation325 Posts

February 20 2011 20:50 GMT

Personally, I'd like to see progamers playing on island maps. Protoss have warp-in, zerg have mass muta, nydus and free dropships, terran have loadable cc's, superstrong turrets and vikings. At first glance, there is no serious favor for any race.

Smipims

United States61 Posts

February 20 2011 20:51 GMT

Zerg would be raped. They'd have to invest heavily in queens while protoss gains map control with early and quick phoenix/void rays. 1 base phoenix >>> 1 base muta.

PhiliBiRD

United States2643 Posts

February 20 2011 20:53 GMT

im hoping within time and expansions they will balance the game for island maps too, however it seems unlikely.

Draconicfire

Canada2562 Posts

February 20 2011 20:54 GMT

Wouldn't island maps be especially protoss favored in SC2? I mean, with a warp prism you can warp in units on other islands, whereas other races cant reinforce that fast (Well, maybe nydus) during attacks.

lyAsakura

United States1414 Posts

February 20 2011 20:55 GMT

#10

In BW, zerg was really just crazily underpowered on island maps because of how much gas they need for their air and anti air.

ecaesar

Canada106 Posts

February 20 2011 20:58 GMT

#11

island maps like the one you posted FORCES zerg to go one base tech until they get overlord drops...how else are they going to expand?

Raahka

Finland30 Posts

February 20 2011 21:07 GMT

#12

Island map = ultimate rock paper scissors.

Turrets/drop defense > Air units/drops
Mass eco > Turrets/drop defense
Air units/drops > Mass eco

Add to that protoss really can not scout without already having made the desision, and terran has to guess which of the 3 other bases he scans.

I dont know about zergs because of overlords, but this is how I see TvT, PvP, and TvP going.

Falcon-sw

United States324 Posts

February 20 2011 21:09 GMT

#13

On February 21 2011 05:51 Smipims wrote:
Zerg would be raped. They'd have to invest heavily in queens while protoss gains map control with early and quick phoenix/void rays. 1 base phoenix >>> 1 base muta.

Excellent point. Also 1-base zerg is at such a disadvantage early... and I can't think of a way to give Zerg players two bases and Terran/Protoss only one on such a map.

Logros

Netherlands9913 Posts

February 20 2011 21:20 GMT

#14

Vikings beat all protoss air, so Terran can just take air control and expand at will, killing any warp prism attempts to warp in or expand from the protoss.

Divine-Sneaker

Denmark1225 Posts

February 20 2011 21:23 GMT

#15

Island maps or maps where terrain outside of your main was inaccessible without drop tech were played in sc1/bw, but they suffered from exactly what you described in the OP. Racial imbalances and were terribly balanced.

Dimagus

United States1004 Posts

February 20 2011 21:30 GMT

#16

Maps would not be balanced even if they were geographically isolated by cliffs, so they obviously wouldn't be balanced with full segregated islands.

The only SC2 variation of geographical isolation is destructible rocks/debris.

Volka

Argentina411 Posts

February 20 2011 23:01 GMT

#17

I don't know. I find islands map very interesting.
However, they add another layer of complexitiy on the already complex world of balance. Still, maybe in a couple of years...

WniO

United States2706 Posts

February 20 2011 23:08 GMT

#18

That map is purely for fun, balancing a island map would not be impossible though. I was working on an island map a few months back that had 4 island spawns, but then the only expos were on the "big island." Zerg has nydus btw so its not impossible.

sofawall

29 Posts

February 20 2011 23:13 GMT

#19

On February 21 2011 06:09 Falcon-sw wrote:
and I can't think of a way to give Zerg players two bases and Terran/Protoss only one on such a map.

Have one base on the starting island with a creep tumor? Perhaps more, so that a photon cannon/turret placed on the outside cannot see the one in the middle, forcing the Protoss/Terran to wait for creep to fade?

Alternatively, if you feel like permanently denying the expansion, just place some perma-creep down.

Kyadytim

United States886 Posts

February 20 2011 23:20 GMT

#20

There's definitely racial imbalances. As Logros mentioned, if a Protoss and a Terran both spend all their gas on air units, Vikings will probably beat any Protoss composition of Phoenix/VR. Also, Zerg is basically screwed on 1-base islands, because they are basically forced to invest in a 1-base spire AND either a nydus network and nydus worms OR overlord drop and speed to expand. At the same time, Protoss can have a robo out far enough before the spire is finished to do some sort of drop/warp in attack, or can have a Stargate up fast enough to take air dominance. Terran can also have very fast medivacs, and would probably be able to win every game with stim marine drops. Alternatively, Vikings...

The problem Zerg faces is that they get to air units the slowest, and because Zerg can't apply pressure at all until Lair tech, the other races can just blitz for air units themselves, hunt overlords, and maintain a superior fleet, then start expanding with minimal gas investment. After producing air combat units, it costs Terran and Protoss 100 gas to either produce a medivac or build a Robotics Facility, at which point they can expand. Terran will also be able to just float CCs around the map until mapmakers start blocking that with low value (or 0 value) mineral patches. In contrast, Zerg need to spend either 200 gas on a nydus network and 100 on a nydus worm, or 100 on overlord speed and 200 on drop tech to be able to expand, putting them further behind in the air unit arms race. Essentially, if all 3 races want to expand, the Zerg player will drop 2 units behind the other races.

On February 21 2011 08:13 sofawall wrote:

Show nested quote +

The creep tumor idea would break TvP, as Terran can be rid of the Creep Tumor at any time with a single scan, while the Protoss has to get a Robo, which is off their tech path for producing a fleet. Perma creep would break ZvP and ZvT, unless that expansion had reduced resources, like 4 mineral patches and 1 geyser, and even then it would still be Zerg favored. What one map in BW did was put a natural expansion on the starting island, but the geyser was a bit distant from the minerals. Zerg, who would naturally build 3 hatches, could mine it properly, while the other races had to invest in extra workers to optimally mine that geyser. Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to Starcraft 2 in any way at all, but try to think outside the box

That map was a semi-island map and was taken out of the map pool years ago, so it would probably be imbalanced with modern playstyles, such as Corsair/Reaver in PvZ.

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