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I don't often 7pool, but occasionally, it's something I like to do on ZvP or ZvT (random player, silver league), especially on a map like Steppes.
This is my 7pool (which I'm pretty sure is the standard 7pool)
6/10 drone
7/10 pool
6/10 drone
7/10 overlord
When pool finishes, I will have 3 larvae and exactly 155 minerals, make the 6 lings
Next larva is another 2 zerglings
If I don't win (early wall off), I find myself in a position where I'm not exactly behind by a lot. Something I've been trying is an early expand after this, roughly on 18. Because I have 8 lings out, I can easily defend and get that early queen out as well.
This is the only replay I have of it saved, but I've had a few more successful recoveries. I would say to ignore my awful, awful zerg, but you can't. I've gotten better since then though
7pool into Fast Expand, Terrible Macro
Basically I'm trying to refine it into something where I can apply very early pressure, yet not be put behind economically. I made too many lings that game initially. I generally only make 8 and if I don't get through, I immediately drone up and get my queen.
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A better 7 pool build is:
6 drone
7 pool
6 drone
7 drone
8 drone
9 double extractor trick + 3 lings
12 overlord
12 drone
13 queen
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6-pool would be more viable.. you'll get the lings out quicker than 7, giving you time to delay say a barracks or sniping workers/pylons. Also not sure I agree with an overlord at 7, since you will probably not be needing an OL if you do extractor tricks.
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Just honestly mass drone while keeping an eye on the opponent. Keep lings outside his base and drone up hard. If you did enough damage with the 6-7 pool, play it normally except with all the timings distorted. Just scout scout scout and you should be able to macro back into a normal game.
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On February 02 2011 14:09 SergioCQH wrote:
A better 7 pool build is:
6 drone
7 pool
6 drone
7 drone
8 drone
9 double extractor trick + 3 lings
12 overlord
12 drone
13 queen
I have tried that and I probably should switch over to that. The one reason I liked the overlord on 7, is because it allowed me to stream 26 lings into his base before my next overlord. Especially great against a Protoss. Of course, the 26 lings is an all in.
Thanks, I'll probably switch over to that. What's the best next step to that? Fast expand? Or just start droning up?
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6 or 7 pool is pretty much a cheese in my book, because unless you do enough damage, you'll be greatly behind economically, and you would have to just outclass your opponent to beat him. If you do enough damage, then you just play it out normally, as said before, make sure to scout cause he might do some timing attack because he feels behind. I feel 10 pool is the exact same purpose that you're trying to do. 10 pool is definitely viable at the lower levels, and its pretty much the same thing except you have more drones, lings hit when his gate is about ~10 seconds after its done (map dependent)
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I really only do this on Steppes. The next step is to fast expand to the gold base and fast tech to hydras and go with a hydra/ling composition.
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On February 02 2011 14:09 SergioCQH wrote:
A better 7 pool build is:
6 drone
7 pool
6 drone
7 drone
8 drone
9 double extractor trick + 3 lings
12 overlord
12 drone
13 queen
that build sounds genious...
the next step is expand to the gold? fantastic. im speechless, how do you come up with something like this?
you do it only on steppes? nice.
one thing though, why go Hydra Ling after? I don't understand this last part, I could see it happening in some games where you scout and see a starport, but wouldnt ling baneling be A LOT more effective for defending a 4 warpgate? or roaches even? either seem like a way more solid choice (depending on what your opponent does) also if you stay on ling baneling for long enough, woudln't u say getting a spire might be the safest in case they go 1 or 2 base colossus?
sorry if i have so many questions, im noob and really like the build you came up with.
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On February 02 2011 14:46 CatZ.root wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 14:09 SergioCQH wrote:
A better 7 pool build is:
6 drone
7 pool
6 drone
7 drone
8 drone
9 double extractor trick + 3 lings
12 overlord
12 drone
13 queen that build sounds genious... the next step is expand to the gold? fantastic. im speechless, how do you come up with something like this? you do it only on steppes? nice. one thing though, why go Hydra Ling after? I don't understand this last part, I could see it happening in some games where you scout and see a starport, but wouldnt ling baneling be A LOT more effective for defending a 4 warpgate? or roaches even? either seem like a way more solid choice (depending on what your opponent does) also if you stay on ling baneling for long enough, woudln't u say getting a spire might be the safest in case they go 1 or 2 base colossus? sorry if i have so many questions, im noob and really like the build you came up with.
Be Nice 
In any case, to the OP, the advice given above by Catz is solid.
P.S. First Post!
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7pool on Steppes is a great ZvP opening, it denies any efforts for aggressive play as even the most aggressive protoss play won't hit you before your pool is done. You only have to do, I believe, 400 minerals of damage to be ahead with the build, and if you force a forge and a cannon, there's 300 of those minerals right there. Add in the inevitable couple probe kills and its fine. That said, I might be wrong on that mineral number, it could be higher.
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I prefer 8 pool, slightly delays the pool but even if you do a little damage, you can be on par with your opponent. Its a bit more economic, and a lot less all-in. it still generally gets to the enemy before they have zealots out i think.
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CatZ, I know it's your build. I like to go hydras because it's safer if protoss techs to air. When I do this build, I skip ling speed and tech straight up to lair after expanding to the gold. Usually, protoss responds to the 7 pool by sealing off with a forge and cannon. So kill the scouting probe and toss won't have any idea what you're doing. Core and warpgates will be delayed enough for fast hydras plus lings to hold off a push.
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On February 02 2011 15:47 SergioCQH wrote:
CatZ, I know it's your build. I like to go hydras because it's safer if protoss techs to air. When I do this build, I skip ling speed and tech straight up to lair after expanding to the gold. Usually, protoss responds to the 7 pool by sealing off with a forge and cannon. So kill the scouting probe and toss won't have any idea what you're doing. Core and warpgates will be delayed enough for fast hydras plus lings to hold off a push.
ok, as you long as you know its my build. problem with going hydra too fast is you'll die to a properly executed 4warpgate or even 1 base or 2 base colossus, you need to sac an overlord to decide what you're going for. also A LOT of people dont get a forge to deal with this, its not really nessesary.
dual 10gate is probably the best blind counter to the build, alongside with going straight for the gold with Protoss units, its a good build, your eco won't suffer and you can't really put numbers on map control, I really hate it when people say stuff like "you just need to do 400minerals worth of damage to break even" (no offense to you sir im sure your intentions are good)
builds are builds, there doesnt need to be math on every single step, some builds make 'less sense' when you put math in them. i personally am not worried if i can do 0 damage with this 7 pool. the transition gives me map control and unless blindly countered, it wins almost every game when you make the right desicions, based on scouting information.
anyways, done here, i go watch tv, cyuuu
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CatZ, what would your transition be in answer to a 4gate, or colossus push?
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On February 02 2011 23:32 Metaspace wrote:
CatZ, what would your transition be in answer to a 4gate, or colossus push?
Read his post. He just gave you the answers on that.
Although i love the creativity in how catz plays. I still find that these types of plays are really weak. The thing with this build is that it gives you is controll over the game pace in trade of less eco. If u manage to get ahead than your opponent made a big mistake. If u manage to get even you did rly well, but imo if both players play perfect you should be behind; meaning that this build is simply relying on bad play. Sure, the game is new and ppl still need to find out if zerg should be aggresive in any way at all, but if you cant play a normal solid play then you'll never get real good.
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steppes is a special case; but on other maps I found with an 8 pool you can usually do enough damage to pull even, or way ahead if they do not respond correctly*. the 6 lings get there before the zealot is out, you can usually pick off a building at the wall. I like it because it delays warp tech enough that you can drone like crazy AND survive a 4 gate (you have more drones at the time the 4gate comes compared to a "standard" opening); and it's also easy to hold off zealot heavy followups with banelings (thanks Catz!)
the BO i use is:
8pool
9overlord
9 lings (6 lings)
14queen
16gas
and then drone hard.
* I think the best response i faced with this is a standard zealot-wall but going 2nd gate before cyber (at the wall). you might or might not get in before the first zealot pops but the double gate pumping zealots will not allow you to deal much damage even when you are inside, and his warp tech is not delayed by a lot compared to a forge defense making the 4gate followup stronger.
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I've been doing this in ZvP since the Zealot build-time nerf and I consider it to be safe enough to be my standard opening on every map. There isn't a single map in the current pool that has a rush distance too far, not even cross pos metal. The hardest map to do this properly on is Delta Quadrant just because your Overlord is useless when it comes to scouting.
My prefered follow up is expo into +1 speedlings. I don't have to worry about air as neither phoenix nor void rays are particularly good at killing zerglings, so I will get a few queens and spore crawlers since I already have the evo chamber, and just go kill him because he has no ground army (sometimes he does have enough cannons and sentries to hold me off, so its not ALWAYS possible)
The best response by Protoss seems to be a 2 gate with immediate Zealot pressure ASAP, I'm still not 100% sure how to handle this if I mess up with my lings early on.
I even dubbed it the "Fail Pool" and wrote a liquipedia article on it.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Fail_Pool_Rush_(vs_Protoss)
I have a variation I do in ZvZ that involves a failed spine crawler rush, but would not recommend any 7-pool variation vs Terran. 2 rax + supply depot blind counters this and if you don't do SOME damage you are so far behind it's almost impossible to recover.
edit: I see CatZ hates the "400 min worth of damage" and that is something I came up with in my article.
I can agree with him though that the numbers are secondary to just having a good feel of the situation. Part of that "damage" can be Zealots, a forge, and cannons. So long as he can't actively use those resources to hit you back, you're in the lead without killing a single thing.
another edit:
On February 02 2011 14:09 SergioCQH wrote:
A better 7 pool build is:
6 drone
7 pool
6 drone
7 drone
8 drone
9 double extractor trick + 3 lings
12 overlord
12 drone
13 queen
There is a HUGE difference between my fail pool and this 7-pool.
My version is more economical as you already have your overlord ready for drone pumping and you don't need to waste the time/money on a double extractor trick.
The only advantage the double extractor trick gets you over an 8 overlord is that your 5-6 lings will be with the first 4 instead of slightly after.
Not worth it IMO.
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Your fail pool doesn't give an early queen. That queen is crucial for the mass drone follow up. By droning up from 6 to 9 instead of making an overlord, you stock up enough minerals to begin a queen immediately after the overlord pops. CatZ's build also uses larva much more efficiently by building drones from 6 to 9 and using double extractor trick instead of saving up for an overlord at 8.
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I played with early queen vs early hatch quite a bit and I found the early hatch to be better in pretty much every way possible. It gives you faster creep so you can get a crawler down there sooner. it lets you maynard drones earlier, and you can't really afford the extra larva anyway if you want both the queen and the hatch.
If you were staying on one base and going for a roach follow-up I could see the argument for a queen, but if a hatch is desired at <18 supply, I don't see why you need the queen so early.
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On February 03 2011 00:34 Jermstuddog wrote:I've been doing this in ZvP since the Zealot build-time nerf and I consider it to be safe enough to be my standard opening on every map. There isn't a single map in the current pool that has a rush distance too far, not even cross pos metal. The hardest map to do this properly on is Delta Quadrant just because your Overlord is useless when it comes to scouting. My prefered follow up is expo into +1 speedlings. I don't have to worry about air as neither phoenix nor void rays are particularly good at killing zerglings, so I will get a few queens and spore crawlers since I already have the evo chamber, and just go kill him because he has no ground army (sometimes he does have enough cannons and sentries to hold me off, so its not ALWAYS possible) The best response by Protoss seems to be a 2 gate with immediate Zealot pressure ASAP, I'm still not 100% sure how to handle this if I mess up with my lings early on. I even dubbed it the "Fail Pool" and wrote a liquipedia article on it. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Fail_Pool_Rush_(vs_Protoss)I have a variation I do in ZvZ that involves a failed spine crawler rush, but would not recommend any 7-pool variation vs Terran. 2 rax + supply depot blind counters this and if you don't do SOME damage you are so far behind it's almost impossible to recover. edit: I see CatZ hates the "400 min worth of damage" and that is something I came up with in my article. I can agree with him though that the numbers are secondary to just having a good feel of the situation. Part of that "damage" can be Zealots, a forge, and cannons. So long as he can't actively use those resources to hit you back, you're in the lead without killing a single thing. another edit: Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 14:09 SergioCQH wrote:
A better 7 pool build is:
6 drone
7 pool
6 drone
7 drone
8 drone
9 double extractor trick + 3 lings
12 overlord
12 drone
13 queen There is a HUGE difference between my fail pool and this 7-pool. My version is more economical as you already have your overlord ready for drone pumping and you don't need to waste the time/money on a double extractor trick. The only advantage the double extractor trick gets you over an 8 overlord is that your 5-6 lings will be with the first 4 instead of slightly after. Not worth it IMO.
mistaken, with double extractor trick, you have 9 drones mining AND 6 zerglings at the speed of a 7 pool, also the timing is perfect as you get an overlord right after your lings and a really fast queen. you also don't waste any larva. you don't need the overlord to 'pump drones right away' because you can't afford to, but as soon as the overlord pops out, you have enough to start making drones ONE BY ONE. (when i say u can't make drones i mean me, I mean YOU can but that's because u have no queen until later)
theorycraft is a wonderful thing, I can see you put a lot of time and effort in working on this build using sick math and writing skills and I admire you for that, yes there is a HUGE difference between your 'fail pool' (cute name) and my 7 pool. mine beats world class players all the time
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EPT
